TiVo asks court for a billion dollars in EchoStar case

by Nilay Patel posted Jul 13th 2009 at 10:41PM

Remember when we thought that those $90 million and $190 million judgments in the endless TiVo / EchoStar case were big noise? Yeah, they were apparently pocket change: according to documents recently filed with the court, TiVo's asking for nearly a billion dollars in contempt sanctions against EchoStar. Unfortunately, the original document in which TiVo made the request was filed under seal because it contains confidential information, but it appears that TiVo's none too pleased that EchoStar violated the permanent injunction that ordered it to disable some 193,000 DVRs in the wild, and it's looking for some payback. For its part, EchoStar says that it doesn't have to comply with the court's order because the injunction was put on hold pending appeal -- an argument that appears on the surface to make perfect sense, but since we can't read TiVo's motion we can't say for sure what's going on, and there's always a chance the company's just playing hardball in order to force a late settlement. Given the rocky history of this endless case, we doubt that's likely, but one thing's for certain: all these lawyers are eating well tonight.

Filed under: Misc

Tags: contempt, echostar, injunction, lawsuit, legal, patent, sanctions, tivo

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Highly Ranked

Rob @ Jul 13th 2009 11:58PM

Hey there! Tivo must be good friends with Monster Cable. If your sales and profits start to drop because you offer nothing but over-priced, out-dated products, just sue the heck out of someone else and make your money that way! Quite the business model.

Highly Ranked

WebDev511 @ Jul 14th 2009 4:33AM

There are some problems with your analogy the foremost of which is that Monster Cable didn't patent and license anything that's truly unique, TiVo did. EchoStar stole it, was found guilty and should pay up.

Unless of course you feel like a DVR is out-dated.

Neutral

Rob @ Jul 14th 2009 5:31AM

So WebDev511, how do you respond when someone says, "knock, knock" to you?

Are you able to bring yourself down to the level of human comedy and reply, "who's there?"

Or do you say to them, "that is not very good onomatopoeia. You should attempt to make a sound that is closer to that of a person's knuckles repeatedly impacting the surface of a wooden door"?

Low Ranked

WebDev511 @ Jul 14th 2009 10:56AM

when it's 4:30 am I usually don't respond, just return a half awake "what do you want" glare on my face as my sense of humor is the first first part of me that falls asleep.

So in tribute TiVo knocks on EchoStars door...

TiVo: "Knock Knock."
EchoStar: "Who's there?"
T: "Orange TiVo"
ES:"Orange TiVo Who?"
T: "Orange you going to turn off your DVRs and pay TiVo for your infringement like the court told you to?"
Muffled sound on the other side of the door of EchoStar dropping to the floor followed by
ES: "NO NO NO NO NO!"

Neutral

john @ Jul 14th 2009 7:01AM

to: rob&webdew511.....are you guys friends or foes?
i can not tell sometimes if you are being humorous or critical to each others posts.you both state your cases well.i enjoy reading your thoughts here.....

Neutral

Rob @ Jul 14th 2009 2:41PM

lol - I don't even know WebDev really...I only know a little bit by what he's written here!

I'm just kind of a smarmy ass. I do have some knowledge and I like for the truth and for correct information to win out every time. But I'm also just as likely to go off on a cynical tirade with no real basis other than a nugget of truth and a whole lot of hyperbole.

I pretty much just like to assume that everyone is stupid until they demonstrate otherwise :D

Highly Ranked

Josh @ Jul 14th 2009 7:53AM

Believe it or not $1B, while it seems quite large is quite a reasonable number. For the sake of argument, let's believe what the courts say... Tivo's patent is valid and Dish infringes. Dish throughout the whole saga chose not to license. They didn't want to, but could have easily done it. Now the initial judgment of about $100M was only for a few years of infringement when Dish actually had relatively few DVRs. Now if you take that number and make it a punitive judgment for their contempt of court (failure to make the DVRs non-infringing, or license), you do a multiple of damages. 10x is not an unreasonable multiple. Remember that if a court only ever charged 1x damages, no one would ever license anything. They would just not license it until they got caught and then just pay the 1x and be done with it. Now as for the $1B number, Tivo is not expecting to get that. They are expecting a settlement and license deal for some kind of ongoing income stream. No matter what any site on the web says Tivo is after a license deal, the rest is just posturing to get Dish to agree to it.

Neutral

Mark Ranson @ Jul 14th 2009 10:20AM

If you steal peoples property or ideas you should get fined, simple as that.

One of the reasons why their equipment is expensive is because people stole their ideas and are selling competing equipment at subsidized costs (satellite reams you elsewhere)

If they those that used the tech paid them a license fee we would see much cheaper TiVo's or even better, the TiVo OS on your satellite/cable DVR like Direct TV has/had.

Neutral

kcmurphy88 @ Jul 14th 2009 10:37AM

I think TiVo would be a much better choice for running DiSH than Echostar. For one, the DVRs would work better. For another, the service wouldn't be run by a pack of thieves.

Neutral

cckrobinson @ Jul 14th 2009 12:34PM

Here's what I hope happens (I'm dreaming of course).
1. Echostar signs a license agreement and agrees to offer a Tivo based DVR similar to what DirecTV has in the works.
2. Echostar works with Tivo to add SlingBox\SlingCatcher technology to new the DishTivo DVR.
3. Tivo gives Echostar a licensing price break in exchange for the rights to add SlingBox\SlingCatcher technology to the TivoHD standalone DVR. That would make the TivoHD a true media hub since their current multi-room viewing solution is a joke.

Both companies win. Dish picks up subscribers from DirecTV due to a superior TivoDVR. Tivo gets additional monthly revenue from Dish and they improve their cable\OTA offerings in the process.

Neutral

Matt @ Jul 14th 2009 2:18PM

Filet and red wine for everyone at the attorney's table!

Some where there is a room where attorney's convince ceo's that going to court is best. This should be solved in an old fasioned street brawl.

Neutral

Rob @ Jul 14th 2009 2:50PM

Exactly!

There's just something about suing that seems like such a poindexter thing to do, at least to me.

That's why my favorite law in the world is, "Fighting Words". There's actually a defence against minor assault if the person claiming they were assaulted provoked the attack! I LOVE that! We need more laws like that!

EchoStar steals Tivo's tech? Tivo ought to have the legal right to eff them up! But nooooo. We're just going to shuffle around bits of paper and talk about ridiculous fines while, in the mean time, the lawyers are the only ones actually getting rich. Ugh!

Neutral

foobarred @ Jul 15th 2009 9:34PM

I hope their lawyer at least asked for it like Dr. Evil... "One beeeliion dollars" with his pinky up to his mounth...

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