S-Video disappearing from AV receivers, few seem to notice

by Darren Murph posted Feb 25th 2009 at 7:38AM

Not like it's any shock to see a legacy port slowly fade away as new technologies come along, but really, it's kind of amazing that S-Video has hung around as long as it has. So far as we can tell, the format has been in existence since at least 1987, and no matter the adoption rate, 22 years in the consumer electronics industry is a milestone to be proud of. CNET has a new piece up that points out just how many AV receivers are dropping S-Video connectors entirely, with Yamaha's new RX-V family among the latest to bid the port a fond farewell. Our question to you is this: do you mind? When's the last time you actually used an S-Video socket over component, HDMI, DVI, VGA or DisplayPort? We're guessing most of you won't even be able to recall.

Filed under: Industry, Ports, Receivers

Tags: av receiver, avr, AvReceiver, dead, legacy, port, ports, receiver, rip, s-video

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Highest Ranked

Peter F @ Feb 25th 2009 7:56AM

They're getting rid of S-Video but they're hanging onto RCA Video?

Highest Ranked

daaper @ Feb 25th 2009 8:11AM

you never know when you'll need 80 RCA inputs...

Neutral

John B @ Feb 25th 2009 8:14AM

Wow. What are you smoking and why aren't you sharing?

There's not one person out there who doesn't have *some* kind of device with RCA. Hell, the "all-in-one" joystick games that are still coming out are all RCA-based. Just about every TV out there, except for the most basic, have an RCA interface. Hell, some portable DVD players have RCA inputs in them so that you can use the screen for something other than DVDs.

RCA is the universal standard when it comes to audio and video. I realize that we tend to be a bit elitist on EngHD and that RCA produces the worse video quality when compared to S-Video, but getting rid of RCA would be one of the dumbest moves out there.

Highest Ranked

squiggleslash @ Feb 25th 2009 8:35AM

John's right, RCA is pretty much universal, S-Video has always been a "premium" feature (well, until component came along.)

The other problem is that there's serious reason to question whether S-Video gives you much of anything at all. You're still getting the same encoding (and thus resolution and depth) used for color with S-Video as you are with RCA, though the luminosity information is theoretically a little better. The only practical advantage this has for many people is an absence of dot crawl, which while positive, rarely appears outside of computer generated titles (and similar graphics), and is rarely noticeable from a distance on normal displays.

I'm happy to see it replaced with component and HDMI. Actually, I'd like to see HDMI better supported and component dropped too. It's depressing that most receivers under $500 these days have no idea what to do with HDMI, treating it as a video source to be switched rather than the primary connection to the monitor and primary source of audio.

Neutral

Erwos @ Feb 25th 2009 8:55AM

Huh? Most receivers these days treat HDMI quite well. Only limitation that's almost universal is lack of HDMI upscaling, and that's just a cost issue.

Highest Ranked

Peter F @ Feb 25th 2009 9:30AM

I just think it is an awkward place to start nixing analog signals. I agree that RCA has a universal purpose still. But as for many computer devices, they have S-Video only and support RCA via an adapter. Now, we don't want endless adapters flying around, but I still prefer S-Video over RCA if I can use it. A have an old computer hooked up to a tv via S-Video

Neutral

squiggleslash @ Feb 25th 2009 9:41AM

Erwos - You generally have to pay over or near $500 for a receiver that accepts HDMI as an audio feed, and which outputs all video signals (RCA, Component, etc) through the HDMI port, not just those it received HDMI.

A huge number of lower cost receivers are marked as supporting HDMI, but on closer inspection do nothing more than HDMI switching. So you need to switch your TV between HDMI and component/RCA/et al depending on the source (you can't just switch the receiver), and the audio feed with each component has to be analog or SPDIF.

The majority of receivers over $500 do it properly in some shape or form, but under $500, it's difficult to find anything that supports the bare minimum. Which is a shame, it's not exactly hard to convert an analog signal into a digital one if you're not trying to upscale it or anything like that, and why ignore HDMI audio as an audio feed? (I'm guessing 90% of the time the designers are recycling some old design and just attaching an off-the-shelf HDMI switch, so the receiver can be buzzword compliant.)

Highly Ranked

Erwos @ Feb 25th 2009 10:08AM

Sorry, but you're just totally off. Sony's STR-DG720 and up accept 7.1 PCM over HDMI. That receiver is < $300 shipped off Amazon. The Onkyo 605 and 606 accept bitstreams over HDMI - again, < $500. You were more correct a couple years ago, but time has marched on.

You need to look at your choices again.

Neutral

squiggleslash @ Feb 25th 2009 10:27AM

Oh brother, every time someone says "There aren't many such-and-suches available for under $X", someone trots out the old "But I can find a discontinued model on eBay for $X-1" line.

605 = discontinued, Amazon doesn't even advertise new models as available. 720 = also discontinued.
606 = technically accurate but 1c less than the figure I quoted is nothing to boast about.

Yes, you find them on special, no that doesn't count (otherwise you can start arguing that Blu-ray player prices have dropped under $50 because a friend of a friend of a friend bought one off of another friend. Of course, Engadget HD would actually report that, but then make no big deal of, say, Vizio releasing one for $150.)

I stand by my point. The majority of low and mid-end receivers do not properly support HDMI. Only a handful will read the audio from an HDMI stream, and almost none will allow the HDMI output to be used for all video sources, analog or digital. The vast majority, the /vast vast/ majority, are a late nineties receiver with an HDMI switch glued on.

Neutral

squiggleslash @ Feb 25th 2009 10:29AM

Oh, and this isn't theoretical either. I've been out shopping for one. I'd like something with a price tag that doesn't scare my wife. Even Circuit City - you know, the company currently engaged in a firesale - didn't sell anything for under $350. And that was a nice looking Denon that, alas, had parts missing.

Neutral

squiggleslash @ Feb 25th 2009 11:08AM

Oh, and reading the reviews, the 720 isn't to my original spec in the first place! It will read audio from HDMI, but it will not relay all video feeds through the HDMI-out, only HDMI feeds. Analog isn't digitized or upconverted.

So we're stuck with one Onkyo that's 1c less than $500, which really proves the point, that sub-$500 receivers that do HDMI properly are virtually impossible to find.

Neutral

Raptor007 @ Feb 25th 2009 2:37PM

I've tried both, and couldn't spot any difference in video quality between composite and s-video. Dropping s-video makes sense, since every s-video device also has composite.

I find it sort of strange that I do see a noticeable difference between 480i component and 480i composite though. You'd think then that s-video would be somewhere in-between, but it just looks like composite to me.

Neutral

Peto @ Feb 28th 2009 10:16AM

never used it ..

Neutral

Sean @ Feb 25th 2009 8:27AM

I don't know that I've ever had a receiver with S-Video on it.

Highly Ranked

Eric @ Feb 25th 2009 8:31AM

Good thing I got my RX-V1800 before this happened! I still play my N64 with an S-video output! Honestly why don't they keep they S-video, drop RCA (video) and give you a converter if you still need the RCA (I have a couple laying around). The only thing I have that must use an RCA is the original NES system.

Highly Ranked

Erwos @ Feb 25th 2009 8:53AM

I agree that there are still some limited situations where s-video is still necessary for some users. I think I heard that most Laserdisc players also use s-video and not component, and, as you mentioned, a lot of pre-PS2 consoles don't support component but do support s-video.

The idea about just giving s-video and converters is interesting, but I tend to agree with the crowd: s-video is on its way out, and pretending otherwise isn't going to be financially feasible to the receiver manufacturers. The connector sucked anyways, what with the pins and all.

The problem I have these days is too many composite and not enough HDMI and component.

Highest Ranked

Darren @ Feb 25th 2009 3:19PM

Erwos, while a lot of Laserdisc players did have S-Video connections, the video signal itself was stored as a standard NTSC one, and therefore, any improvement in the quality of the video output of S-Video over Composite would have been entirely due to the player's comb filter being better than the TV's comb filter. With any suitably good TV, you'd see no improvement by using the S-Video connector on a Laserdisc. This was not true of DVD, where the color information was stored independently from the luminance information. Many videogame consoles, including the SNES, and computers like the Commodore 64 generated truly separate luminance and chrominance signals, but LD did not.

Neutral

The Fuzz 53 @ Feb 25th 2009 8:56AM

I still have to use one to connect my STANDARD DEFINITION receiver to my PC, because there is no other alternative.

How the hell does a HDMI/Component TV Tuner Card not exist yet? It absolutely blows my mind.

Neutral

NorthCranky @ Feb 25th 2009 12:39PM

Supposedly, there's at least 1 new receiver that takes analog [say s-video] and outputs it via hdmi. Bada boom! Go buy a new receiver dude!

Neutral

NorthCranky @ Feb 25th 2009 12:44PM

And if that's not enough... get a new pc. They make them with HDMI now and optical too. You don't need no STANDARD DEFINITION receiver anymore.

Neutral

Raptor007 @ Feb 25th 2009 2:39PM

One? There are many.

Neutral

The Fuzz 53 @ Feb 25th 2009 5:04PM

I should have clarified. My standard def Directv receiver.

Neutral

Kurt Huber @ Apr 30th 2009 3:07AM

My non-HD Cable TV (Comcast) receivers only have SD, no Component outputs. And now that I think about it, they may not have Composite, either, which would explain why I have one hooked up with an 18-inch S-Video cable. Gonna have to look at that.

Neutral

PittCaleb @ Feb 25th 2009 9:05AM

I always 'wanted' to use S-Video, but never did for regular devices.

The only time I have ever used it, and I do still need to continue to do so, is in connecting my laptop to a television. The only output I have is S-Video. Thankfully I have front inputs on my TV and Receiver and can easily plug in. (Only need to do this when TVersity won't properly serve my files, and with the PS3 a web browser, this is less and less often).

PittCaleb

Neutral

Philip S @ Feb 25th 2009 9:28AM

Last time I used S-video was for my S-VHS VCR that I gave away in 2005 when I got a DVR with component video. I also used it for cable boxes in the past.

Neutral

Richard @ Feb 25th 2009 9:41AM

My ideal receiver or pre/pro backplate? 6 HDMI inputs, one "legacy" component video input and one "legacy" optical/coax digital audio input, 2 HDMI outputs. Seven pre-outs and two sub outputs. Nothing else. No s-video, no component. Lets see if we could do something with only 10 jacks!

Neutral

giesen @ Feb 25th 2009 5:28PM

My home theater setup (TV, receiver, DVD, etc) from 2001 is all s-video and it's noticeably better than RCA. Of course, when I save enough cash to buy some new gear, I'll use the new stuff... HDMI or whatever.

Neutral

archie4oz @ Feb 25th 2009 11:00AM

Indeed, my 6400ES has tons of HDMI, component and composite, but no s-video anymore. Sad... :(

http://www.flickr.com/photos/halfaloafoftofu/3296221038/

Neutral

murchball @ Feb 25th 2009 11:05AM

I use S-video for my wii and to connect my computer to my old standard def TV. I also use it to capture SD from my cable box for my pvr (MythTV)

Highest Ranked

MHAithaca @ Feb 25th 2009 11:17AM

I use S-Video constantly. It connects my bedroom TiVo HD to my bedroom TV, a 27-inch CRT. The quality difference over NTSC is dramatic. I also use it in the living room to connect the AV system to my Slingbox, so as to provide the best possible source video for compression and then streaming. I'd be disinclined to buy an AV receiver that couldn't provide S-Video to my Slingbox, and I have no need for a Slingbox that'd take component or HDMI instead.

Neutral

Raptor007 @ Feb 25th 2009 2:44PM

S-video is still NTSC (well, except when it's PAL).

Neutral

jakebrick @ Mar 4th 2009 8:58AM

I have my PC connected to my (old tube) TV through s-video in my room, but that is the only time I use it (or have ever used it) for.

Neutral

A L @ Feb 25th 2009 12:43PM

How about the flip side of this- when are we going to have receivers that ONLY have HDMI (and other digital) connectors- and get rid of ALL analog connectors- component, RCA video & audio ???

I wish the Wii had HDMI output- even if it only put out 480p over HDMI.

I don't own a Wii- and my current setup is entirely HDMI. I would have jumped at saving $100+ to get a HDMI only receiver. I'm sure whatever A/V company that puts one out will get a lot of press for it.

Neutral

Eko @ Feb 25th 2009 1:27PM

The new IP based audio system from THIEL is going HDMI only...about time, of course that is a next generation home theater/multiroom audio solution but I'm glad to see the analog inputs going away.

Check it out: www.thielzoet.com.

Neutral

h0mi @ Feb 25th 2009 12:56PM

Until I bought my HDTV, I never had any devices that could use (input or output) S Video.

Highly Ranked

glenn s @ Feb 25th 2009 1:23PM

Component will be next. They just want to close the analog hole once and for all. F&*(ers.

Neutral

edge @ Feb 25th 2009 1:33PM

I was quite disappointed when I saw that Pioneer had dropped S-Video from their consumer (read: non-Elite) receivers last year (the last models with S-Video were the 2007 models; the 2008 and upcoming 2009 models no longer have S-Video).

I was disappointed for a couple of reasons: 1) Like others, I have legacy devices which work best via S-Video. 2) These newer receivers have advanced upscaling circuitry usually, and it's disappointing that I'd need to feed them an inferior signal (garbage in, garbage out) because of missing S-Video connections. 3) It seems an odd place to start cutting costs/corners. It's not like S-Video is some advanced technology that requires royalties/licensing by the manufacturers that use it.

As someone in the market for a new receiver this is keeping me from pulling the trigger, and it seems like an odd choice when it maybe saves them $10 per unit (I'd guess significantly less, but for the sake of discussion there's my high end guesstimate).

Neutral

DeadPlasmaCell @ Feb 25th 2009 2:28PM

Hmm.. Never noticed that the connector looks like the Imp from Doom.

Neutral

Asterra @ Feb 25th 2009 4:33PM

My two cents. For anyone who's hanging on to analog tapes of all sorts (VHS, Hi8, etc.), s-video is most probably the best possible video option they have. If any argument could be made about the potential prematurity of s-video's demise, it's this: There still isn't any satisfactory means for people with such tapes to digitally store them for posterity and play back the results.

Analog tapes are, of course, technically lossless / raw. ANY form of lossy compression reduces the quality. And this means that if one wishes to create a hypothetically ideal digital rendition of an analog tape, the minimum file size will be about 30GB per hour, at over 60 megabits per second. It would be a stretch to say that the average consumer has ample options for the playback of that kind of media.

Neutral

crazyass21 @ Feb 25th 2009 10:58PM

So you are trying to tell me that your VHS and Hi8 tapes are going to loose quality being transferred to DVD because of MPEG2 compression? Trust me I think you'll squeeze just about everything you can out of them going digital.

And analog signals di use a form of compression, it's called interlacing. It's one of the reasons it's hard to get a good capture off VHS. Use a computer to capture the footage at high enough resolution and deinterlace afterward.

60 megabits per second is an insane amount of data, how could you possibly need that much? Bluray tops out at 54.

Not to mention that those analog tapes are going to deteriorate.

Neutral

Andy Anonymous @ Feb 25th 2009 5:23PM

I still use s-video mainly because it's the best possible connection I can make between my A/V receiver and some of my older gaming systems.

Neutral

fikhl @ Feb 25th 2009 5:32PM

"Our question to you is this: do you mind? When's the last time you actually used an S-Video socket over component, HDMI, DVI, VGA or DisplayPort?"

Yes, I do. - Today for my DVD player ;)

Neutral

Louis Sansano @ Feb 25th 2009 8:07PM

This sucks, I connect pretty much all my SD stuff with S-Video

Neutral

Joe Canuck @ Feb 26th 2009 9:33AM

Back in 2005, I bought a Sony Vaio desktop solely for the fact that it was then the only way you could get your hands on a Windows Media Centre 2005. The only connection it provided to attach to my satellite STB was/is the S-Video. Thank God I'm a Mac User, although even Apple hasn't got around to HDMI ..... yet.

Neutral

sdweiss @ Feb 26th 2009 3:00AM

S-Video is perfect for small video operations that require a mixer. Most mixers on the market today under $1,000 have analog outputs, and S-video is better than RCA, which are those red-white-yellow cables. Red and white are audio, yellow is video--and for the record, one still needs the red and white for the audio portion of a recording. S-Video is only video.

Anyway, over the years it's been harder to get a camcorder with S-Video output, which requires all manner of custom adapters and converters, and ultimately we end up just using the yellow cord.

Neutral

wywywywy @ Feb 26th 2009 10:18AM

While we still need RCA for various reasons, there is no need for 4 of them!
One or may be two is enough. Stuff some more HDMI in.

Neutral

tsamb @ Feb 28th 2009 3:15AM

To be honest, I'd rather S-Video stay than the yellow RCA. (Or maybe one of each, but that's all.) The only thing I can think of that I'd use RCA video for is a VCR, if I had any insane reason for hooking that up to my receiver (80s home videos upscaled to 7.1 surround sound anyone?)

Neutral

Bryan @ Mar 1st 2009 10:05PM

I used s-video about two weeks ago, connecting a Dish Network VIP625 to my TV via the highest quality connection available on that box.

Neutral

Brian Kaempen @ Mar 2nd 2009 12:34AM

My GF and I once wanted to watch a DVD on her old(er) TV in the basement which had no DVD player, just a cable feed. Well we took out her PowerBook and I found the S-Video->Composite adapter that came with her laptop and connected the computer and watched the movie off that. The lesson here is that S-Video really was a professional port (hence why the port was found natively on the PowerBooks, Apple's then professional laptop line) and not on the consumer laptops. Unfortunately S-Video has seen it's day and as mentioned above, Component will be next, but my guess is not for 5 years will it start to disappear en masse.

-Brian

Neutral

Arnaud H @ Apr 2nd 2009 12:54PM

I'm sad to see S-Video go, because at the moment, I still haven't upgraded to HD. Problem is, there are some devices out there, like the AppleTV, that offer only HDMI and component outputs. So it means for many consumers out there who need to upgrade their receiver to accomodate more devices but haven't switched to HD, they will probably have to replace their TVs at the same time, since many older yet perfectly good working TVs (like my big Trinitron) only have RCA or S-Video inputs, and no component input.

And since the majority of receivers these days only offer 2, sometimes 3 component video inputs max, and no S-Video, it means that if you have a non-HD TV, you need to downgrade some connections to RCA cables (lame), and the only remaining video out option you have for the TV is an RCA connector (now usually labeled "Monitor"), a major step back as well from S-Video.

Fortunately, Onkyo, among others, is still integrating S-Video in most of its SR series. I think I'll be acquiring the TX-SR706 soon, until I can afford shelling another few hundreds for an HDTV.

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