Atari president confident about physical media's decline
by Darren Murph 
posted Dec 8th 2008 at 11:33AM
While high ranking executives from high ranking companies have bickered back and forth about the longevity of Blu-ray as a format, Atari president Phil Harrison has some pretty strong feelings on physical media as a whole. In an interview with Edge, the bigwig stated that "there's a generation of kids being born today and probably already alive who I'm pretty confident will never buy a physical media product; they will never buy a DVD, they will never buy a CD, and they will never buy a game in a box." While some may jump on this as being patently absurd, we're not so sure it's a crazy as it at first sounds. Video games in particular have been distributed via the 'net for some time now (Steam, anyone?), and it's no secret that programming and movies are headed in that direction. There's no way to accurately predict how many more generations will be buying wares in boxes, but it's safe to say we're a lot closer than most people expected us to be just a decade ago.[Via G4TV]
Filed under: Industry, Blu-ray, Other formats, Internet
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
DEEZNUTZ @ Dec 8th 2008 11:44AM
"...the bigwig.." LOL.
Bald does not suit him.
Drew @ Dec 8th 2008 11:59AM
Sorry Phil but if you are so visionary then why were pumping BD not just a short time ago?
What happens when my drive fails Phil, all my content that I paid thousands for is gone? Or is it going to take my five days to upgrade my PC to get my data off it?
Optical still is the best archival media.
Spiza @ Dec 8th 2008 12:37PM
I guess you have never used Steam.
Mr_Fizzlepop @ Dec 8th 2008 4:38PM
I have steam, but for some of us it's just that we have learned that Time is Money, and if I'm going to have to spend 20+ hours of my time remembering, finding, getting, and re-backing-up my catalog of various media types, it's just not worth the little bit of money I might save( I buy way over 95% of my physical Media online now, so I'm not wasting time or gas getting it compared to DD) .
Additionally, there is one thing Digital media will NEVER have, resale value.
You pay 10, I pay 12, I resell later for 5, I WIN!
Spiza @ Dec 8th 2008 8:05PM
There is no finding or remembering on steam. Everything you buy on steam shows up on steam and you can redownload at any time, with patches right there.
The good argument that you didn't even make is that you have to worry about the company going belly up and you not being able to redownload your material.
Your argument against resale is rediculous. The companies we are talking about are against resale because they make no profit on it. They would prefer a method where you could not sell a title. Thats a pro for the industry going digital download.
JDS @ Dec 8th 2008 12:05PM
his head is also his crystal ball................
saying a generation that is born or just now being born gives a 10 - 15 year window to actually happen...will anyone even remember what he said or even his name 10 - 15 years from now?
John B @ Dec 8th 2008 12:30PM
Look, all of those nutcases who think that downloads are going to get rid of physical media need to get a clue. The only way to totally get rid of physical media is to have 100% broadband coverage around with world (oceans included) with 99% uptime and a guaranteed allowance of re-installations. (People need to be reminded that Sony allows 2 instalaltions per on-line purchase for the PS3. No such restrictions if you buy the disc.) Then and only then will physical media even have a chance of disappearing. Until that time, people will always want to have discs nearby.
This bald clown (forgot his make-up apparently) is totally clueless.
Nate @ Dec 8th 2008 12:37PM
In other news: Atari exists.
DrXym @ Dec 8th 2008 12:40PM
Phil is an interesting guy but I suspect he's saying what he is because Atari is about to leap on Steam or a similar service. Given how badly Atari has been doing recently, it wouldn't surprise me if they'd prefer to go for smaller, lower risk titles and services like PSN, XBL, Steam etc.
Techie @ Dec 8th 2008 12:44PM
Unless I get the same freedom from downloads as I get from buying a disc I'll never switch.
Can I resell the download when I am tired of it?
Can I re-install the purchased download?
Can I transfer the download to another unit and play it at a friends house, summerhouse or simular?
Can I be sure nobody will turn off the DRM/Certificate server after 6 months?
No? Then no downloads for me thanks.
And the benefit of having a movie on my harddrive? Well.. Lets say that AnyDVD HD is a great friend of the house and all my disc-based movies are allready on my NAS.
DrXym @ Dec 8th 2008 4:29PM
Steam addresses a few of your points. You can log in from any machine and most but not all games can be downloaded and installed to as many machines as you like. However, you may only be logged in and playing one machine at a time.
I say most since an increasing number of full price games inflict their own copy protection such as SecuROM so you get a double dose of DRM and malware. The issue with SecuROM stinks and makes me not bother with full price titles at all. I was bitten by Bioshock and have no intent to be caught again. At least you can obtain no cd cracks for physical content.
There is also the small matter of price. The games are often more than the physical copy with no manuals, no boxed set, or resale rights. Steam sometimes does special offers, but nothing compares to physical, especially since there are literally hundreds of places to buy games.
Issues about copy protection and value aside, Steam one of the milder download services. Impulse is another mild service. Others may be more restrictive. I recall EA's service at one time charged for re-downloading titles which is an insult. Just remember that Steam could start charging too if it felt like it, or for multiplayer etc. These download services could change their terms & conditions any time they felt like it. They could also potentially go to the wall too. I have no idea what would happen then. If you're lucky the service holds its server keys in escrow to unlock games. Just hope you never want to install that game again afterwards because you probably can't.
So my recommendation is use it for casual titles and buy physical for full price. Chances are you'll get a better deal anyway.
DrXym @ Dec 8th 2008 4:37PM
I should add I'm talking about games. I haven't seen ANY movie download service which comes close to Steam. Movie downloads have so many restrictions that its a laugh to see people claim they're going to replace physical any time soon. The entire industry needs a common delivery platform or it will turn itself into a wasteland of warring factions fighting over scraps. Same thing happened with ebooks too.
Bozster @ Dec 8th 2008 5:12PM
Techie, you are just less informed to make conclusions like that.
Can I resell the download when I am tired of it?
- Yes you can theoretically. You could transfer a license to anyone and sell it to them, however this is one of the things that makes digital downloads cheaper to begin with.
Can I re-install the purchased download?
- Of course you can.. you don't even have to back them up as more and more digitial download models have re-download feature. Once you buy it it's always on their servers so you can redownload if you lose it.
Can I transfer the download to another unit and play it at a friends house, summerhouse or simular?
Of course you can. On any digital downloads device or PC you can usually login to your account and view content anywhere (Xbox 360, Vudu and a few others allow that along with Steam)
Can I be sure nobody will turn off the DRM/Certificate server after 6 months?
Same thing you can ask Apple's iTunes users. What happens if Apple closes iTunes? RIght not DRM system is not brilliant as it's different from provider to provider but the new Digital Entertainment Content Ecosystem is poised to resolve that issue. It's progress. Nobody says that digital downloads will stay static. It will only get better and better, faster and faster, more convenient and more universal eventually replacing ancient optical media.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/13/digital-entertainment-content-ecosystem-the-drm-of-the-future/
Techie @ Dec 8th 2008 5:51PM
# Bozo... Ehh.. Bozster.
You have faith in companies that thinks reselling disc media is theft.. Yes.. Look it up.. Thats what many in the entertainment industri thinks. I doubt it will be possible to resell paid downloads and yes.. In theori it is possible, but not very plausible and unless you can show me a service where it is possible it will be high on my top 5 list on why not to buy downloads.
Have you actually read the fine print about redownload? There is plenty of examples of downloads disapearing after a while because company X doesnt supply products from company Y anymore (Seach for Sony PS3 downloads as example) . Limited number of times you can download (read the fine print of pretty much any download service).
Transfer the paid download. Okay.. So I can transfer my purchase from Vodu to my friend's Xbox, my moms DVD player and watch it on my sisters portable movie player? You make it sound so simple.. I must be so "less informed".. or perhaps you are full of it and think we all have the same equipment?
The same will happen as when Yahoo, MSN and a couple of others tried to close down their DRM servers - a public outcry. DRM is poison and have nothing to do with a positive work like ecosystem. If you beleive that DRM will get more better and more convenient I have an Eiffeltower I am interested in selling..
The only way I'll purchase a download is when it had better quality, wider hardware support and when it is free from DRM..
Bozster @ Dec 8th 2008 10:27PM
Techie,
first of all be more mature and avoid name calling. There's no need for you to be so passionate about something that you have to insult to make a point. I have not insulted you and explained reasons why I think you are wrong.
But let me address your follow up:
1. Reselling media is theft if it's unauthorized, that's correct. This applies to optical media as well. Most of the points you raise for digital downloads apply to optical media in legal terms. I just think it's more transparent to you because you have grown accustomed to seeing these things happen easy. So it's really a non issue and not a big reason why digital downloads are bad.
2. You are correct about some services not allowing redownloads. I'm not surprised that PS3 has some problems. To be honest I hardly ever download stuff from PSN, it's simply inferior service. Sony is a company that's hardly consumer oriented IMO. But I can tell you that I had no problems redownloading 10 times same content on Xbox 360 or Vudu. Yes I have all of the units and services you can imagine. From Blu-Ray to anything optical. I'm a hardcore early adopter.
The point is that digital downloads is all over the place because there's no real consensus on DRM but this is why DECE was created. In the interest of consumers they want to unify DRM so you can exactly access content cross-platform on any device under DECE license.
This is the only real advantage optical media has at this point that will fade soon enough as everyone is realizing that both good revenue and technical implementation wise digital downloads are the future.
Techie said: "Transfer the paid download. Okay.. So I can transfer my purchase from Vodu to my friend's Xbox, my moms DVD player and watch it on my sisters portable movie player? You make it sound so simple.."
Okay and tell me how can you do that now with optical media? You have to buy a device for each room or setting in order to watch your movie. Can you take a Blu-Ray movie take it your friend's Xbox or your mom's DVD player or watch it on your sister's movie player? In one word, no you can't.
With digital downloads eventually (maybe not currently) you will be able to do that, again thanks to unified DRM platform. It's enough for you to look at iTunes downloads and see that you can actually make your content mobile very easy exactly because of the fact that digital content is sum of 0s and 1s and the only thing preventing it from playing on plethora on other devices is DRM.
As for license transfer and selling your digital content for example an example is here:
http://majornelson.com/archive/2008/06/26/content-license-transfer-tool-aka-the-drm-tool.aspx
Again, not everything is perfect with digital downloads and it's mainly the reason why it's not really catching on fire yet, but once the DRM unification is solved which will happen soon have no doubt about that (every studio has this in their sights).
Techie said: "The same will happen as when Yahoo, MSN and a couple of others tried to close down their DRM servers - a public outcry. DRM is poison and have nothing to do with a positive work like ecosystem. If you beleive that DRM will get more better and more convenient I have an Eiffeltower I am interested in selling.."
MSN Service is just a bad judgment call by Microsoft. Everyone has learned from that mistake and this is why they are trying to unite in DRM. DRM inherently is not bad, the bad thing about it is when you have 10 different types of DRM. If DRM is unified so it's transparent to you the only ones who are hurt by this will be pirates which is fine with me.
Your statement about Eiffeltower is purely speculative. We can agree to disagree but I believe you will see soon enough that you are wrong. Every content provider would love to have unified DRM ecosystem because that would allow them to sell same content on any service and allow better competition without hassles to consumers. This is a good thing.
When, not if, when this ecosystem finalizes you will indeed be able to watch content you bought on Vudu on your Xbox or your DVD player or your portable player.
But the real problem with optical media is that you only have 1 copy. Unless you break the law and circumvent the copy protection so you can rip your DVD or Blu-Ray into digital form (again proof why people rip discs in the first place) is mobility. If your disc gets scratched or messed up any some way you have to rebuy it, this is not the case with digital downloads. Not only that you can redownload content eventually you will be able to back it up much easier. You can't backup optical disc in any way.
as I said, digital downloads are not flawless but to say that digital downloads are not the future is really short-sighted and really unrealistic. Wishful thinking to be exact. It's impractical, it's not mobile and it's expensive.
daaper @ Dec 9th 2008 10:22AM
Bozster @ Dec 8th 2008 10:27PM
"Okay and tell me how can you do that now with optical media? You have to buy a device for each room or setting in order to watch your movie. Can you take a Blu-Ray movie take it your friend's Xbox or your mom's DVD player or watch it on your sister's movie player? In one word, no you can't."
To be fair, we're talking about physical media, not necessarily Blu-ray. You can transfer a DVD to any one of those devices and DVD is still the prevailing form of optical media.
"You can't backup optical disc in any way."
Sure you can. There are states where its legality has already been supported (Cali. for one) and the Supreme Court hasn't really weighed in on this issue as far as I know. Backing up optical media has never been the issue. Redistribution of that "backup" has...
Brad Clarke @ Dec 8th 2008 1:56PM
This is like having joe the plumber predict the future. Atari holds no standing in physical disk format, for gods sake they just make games, and when they did have a console they made cartridges, which was like a million years ago. If you ask me Atari should just be quite, before there own company fails.
Big Wizz @ Dec 8th 2008 2:46PM
*How to look like a complete dummyhead*
Step 1: Be the president of a washed up video game company. Check.
Step 2: Make a "bold" statement concerning digital downloads. Check.
Step 3: Wait for news hungry tech blog to pick up said "bold" statement and publish. Check.
Step 4: Suddenly remember you're the head of a company your parents thought was cool and that you are nowhere close to being a subject matter expert on the statement you just made. Check and Check!
Darren @ Dec 8th 2008 3:20PM
I wonder if you all really believe this guy is nuts, or just hope he is.
Don't get me wrong, I love DVD, CD and especially Blu-ray, but it's totally true that younger generations have little to no interest in physical media.
I had housemates recently that were both under 30. Neither of them had a CD/DVD collection. They told me they never buy them. Their entire music/video collections were on their laptops. I seemed like a dinosaur by comparison.
I'd hate to see physical media die, let's hope it sticks around.
Nate @ Dec 8th 2008 4:17PM
I guess my eyes are better than my ears: I think music downloads are a no brainer, but my eyes are not as sold on downloads as my ears. Just my 2 cents.
Techie @ Dec 8th 2008 5:23PM
How many of them paid for their video and/or music downloads?
Is it just me or does it seem a little stupid to bet on sales to a generation that pirate copy pretty much everything from the internet?
daaper @ Dec 9th 2008 10:45AM
Techie @ Dec 8th 2008 5:23PM
"How many of them paid for their video and/or music downloads?
Is it just me or does it seem a little stupid to bet on sales to a generation that pirate copy pretty much everything from the internet?"
HAHAHAHAHA...oh man, amen to that! They're gearing selling practices to a group who use, "Torrent!" as their battle cry. Very good point you have there, but I'm sure it won't sway them. They either ignore it and continue losing money through piracy, or they try to embrace it and make at least some money from the upstanding citizens out there ;-).
Nick @ Dec 8th 2008 8:37PM
Seriously, how do these media execs think digital downloads can POSSIBLY overtake physical media? Do they not realize there are a bunch of not so tech-savvy (re: old) people out there? How the hell do you expect them to download stuff?
Also, where is the fun in digital downloads? Can you take it with you to a friends house? Didn't think so. Digital downloads will never overtake physical media. People like OWNING something, not just seeing it on a computer. Kinda like on your cell phone. You DOWNLOADED all those damn ringtones for like 2 bucks each. Then when your phone breaks, or you get a new one, then what? Oh yeah, thats right, you lose all your ring tones.
People would be REALLY pissed if their HDD suddenly failed, and they lost all their downloaded stuff. Not to mention the countless HDD's people would have to have in order to store all their downloaded Blu-Ray movies, DVD's, etc. Face it, physical media is king, and always will be.
daaper @ Dec 9th 2008 10:56AM
Nick @ Dec 8th 2008 8:37PM
"People would be REALLY pissed if their HDD suddenly failed, and they lost all their downloaded stuff. Not to mention the countless HDD's people would have to have in order to store all their downloaded Blu-Ray movies, DVD's, etc. Face it, physical media is king, and always will be."
The ironic thing is that once the DD is transferred to an HDD, it is now basically physical media once again, is it not? Granted, a higher capacity physical media, but physical none-the-less.
You also got me thinking about how much money is invested in these HDDs versus the price of buying the physical disc? When you factor in DD price and HDD price, I'm sure it's more expensive to have the DD copy. The only real advantage is not having to store all those discs.
Ernesto @ Dec 9th 2008 12:39AM
I don't think any company in their right mind would focus all their energy on digital distribution. It is the FUTURE but its not here yet and won't be widespread among everyone for various reasons. And again they are a lot of people who want the physical media (like myself). Arguing about all this is ridiculous. We will see how things turn out but for the time being digital distribution is not King and there are serious problems with it.
Which leads me to my biggest peeve with it all is that a majority of the people who download are STEALING. Look what happened to the music industry and CDs. And console systems like the Sega Dreamcast that fell because games were so easy to pirate or PC games for that matter. We're already headed there with movies and once it becomes faster to DL, it'll get there sooner. Who doesn't know a handful or more of friends/co-workers/etc who download, burn and distribute to their families and what not ? So unfortunately this young generation thats growing up with this feels they're entitled to things being free and that its not stealing because they're not actually stealing "something." Its a touchy subject that I can't even bring up around friends w/o looking like an a$$. But its fact and I'm sorry for having morals.
Even if people like it for the convenience, anyone with half a of mind can see the LEGAL digital versions are flawed and overpriced. Of course you don't have to buy everything but buy what you love. Everything else you can rent.
peake01 @ Jan 8th 2009 7:45PM
Phil didn't seem to mind physical media when he was head of SCEE. Guess his opinion has changed since he joined a company that wants to break into digital game downloads.
Gotta take these PR releases with a bit of context...
minimalist @ Dec 9th 2008 1:39AM
The dark underbelly of the Cloud is that we will all give up control when we let other people store and control content for us.
We may "buy" downloads or the right to stream stuff out of the cloud but we are always going to be at the mercy of licensing deals that change with the wind. Xbox may have a movie this week but not the next because Sony decides its going to do an exclusive with another service.
And don't forget the fact that the cloud is out of our control when we leave it to Microsoft and content companies to manage it for us. E-music lets me "re-download" stuff I have bought as well too.... that is until their licensing deal is up and the record company yanks the recording and its as if it never existed on the site to begin with.
I for one do not trust these companies to look out for my best interest. If I'm renting? Sure I don;t care that much. But if I want to OWN something its not going to be with DRM or strings attached to my ability to back it up.