Will tough times give RPTVs one final breath of life?
[Thanks, Anthony]
[Thanks, Anthony]
[Thanks, Anthony]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Chad @ Nov 18th 2008 12:01PM
I imagine it depends on the cost vs LCD and Plasma. I love my 42" RPTV picture more than my 50" Plasma (both 1080i). Considering today's RPTVs are only about 15" thick which is still less than most AV equipment and should sit on and AV cabinet. I was even able to mount my RPTV above the fireplace on the mantle with an inch to spare.
squiggleslash @ Nov 18th 2008 12:01PM
Are people still making these things?
I thought RP TVs belong to the dark ages of crap TVs, back when CRTs were king. Sure, they're all HD these days, but the poor contrasts, washed out colours, sensitivity to ambient light, and inability to look the same from two different angles always stuck me as enough to keep them off the shopping list of anyone who was upgrading to HDTV for the quality.
Jason W @ Nov 18th 2008 12:08PM
Im not sure what models you are looking at but I have a 44 Pan and a 42 Samsung and both give better color and responce than my 32 sonly LCD in my bedroom. Im sure that some of the older models have more issues but the ones from the last few years have really put those days behind them.
Now that most burn in issues are gone from Plasmas I bet they will start bounce back.
WebDev511 @ Nov 18th 2008 12:15PM
What era rear projection are you referring too? 3 CRT?
Bulb based DLP sets are okay, but let's face it, they still have the heat and replacement issues that all bulb based systems do.
LED and Laser based are great!
squiggleslash @ Nov 18th 2008 12:29PM
WD - pretty much every RP set I've ever seen. Last week we went to BJs and saw they'd apparently dropped them, but certainly those I've seen there in the last six months had all of the characteristics I mentioned.
I'm not claiming they didn't improve, but they've never seemed to over-come those fundamental obstacles when I've seen them. The "unwatchable from the wrong angle, and with severely different brightness and contrast at different angles" thing's always been a show stopper for me. Any ambient light seems to kill the contrast too.
coreylucas @ Nov 18th 2008 1:49PM
hmmmm: "poor contrasts, washed out colours, sensitivity to ambient light, and inability to look the same from two different angles...". With the exception of only the most expensivey SPVA LCDs, those are actually blaring weaknesses of most LCD tvs. factor in the price per inch and i'll gladly take an RP over about 98% of the flat panels on the market.
feat-us @ Nov 18th 2008 9:00PM
the only complaint that holds any water is the viewing angle, which is absolute crap on a rptv. but as far as black levels and color are concerned, the rptv (dlp, at least, and others probably as well) pretty much kills all lcds, and quite a few plasma sets.
the only other real complaints i had about my older samsung dlp was the inability to get rid of overscan (minor) and the high failure rate, as ours developed some problems about 9 months in, and then died after a year. every replacement they sent had some sort of problem so we took our money back and bought an lcd. but i really miss the picture quality of our dlp.
TK101 @ Nov 18th 2008 12:04PM
Easy there, big fella. My Sony LCOS set is a fantastic TV with very few quirks to bother me (the silk screen effect can sometimes show up). Blacks are great, price was right ($1200 for 55") and the picture is wonderful. Plus, I can lift it myself ;)
TK
BF @ Nov 18th 2008 12:46PM
Totally agree with you - I have a Sony LCOS 60" and I've been thrilled since I got it in April. I would get it again if I had to. I use it with my media PC for playing games, browsing or movies, and it is perfect. Don't have to worry about burn in either.
Steve @ Nov 18th 2008 1:50PM
Agreed. I've had the 60" A3000 for about a year now and love it. We have a big built-in entertainment center, and it really doesn't matter whether we have a flat panel or not, nobody is the wiser about it.
Besides, we got great bang for our buck in a larger size, as well as phenomenal black levels. The only annoying part is having to replace the bulb somewhere down the road, but no biggie.
The Fuzz 53 @ Nov 18th 2008 12:27PM
I have an RPTV and I love it. If it died today, I would get another RPTV. I don't see the big deal about being flat. Of all the people I know that have them, you know how many have them hanging? None. They are all on a stand where you could fit an RPTV. So why pay the premium for flat? Because it's cool/sexy? That's effing stupid.
Besides, I think the PQ on and RPTV blows away any flat, except in viewing angle.
jason @ Nov 18th 2008 12:30PM
My 50" Samsung DLP looks fantastic and was only $900.
Nick @ Nov 18th 2008 12:41PM
I LOVE my 52" DLP. great black levels, great response time, great resolution, and it's only an inch thicker than my buddies 42" LCD's stand mount. Besides, it's almost half the price of a plasma in the same size. It was way cheaper, considering I got it off craigslist for 600 bucks.
Wryker @ Nov 18th 2008 12:41PM
You can not come CLOSE to paying the same amount for a 73" RPTV for any flat-panel (LCD, Plasma, etc)...For a TV this size the $$ is ridiculous for anything other than an RPTV (like my 73" Mitsubishi).
Galley @ Nov 18th 2008 12:42PM
My friend wanted me to buy his 18-month old 50" Samsung 1080p RPTV for $850. He needs something smaller. That was a tempting price, but it's just not as cool as a flat-panel. If he wanted to trade me even up for my puny 32" 768p LCD, I might go for it.
Sean @ Nov 18th 2008 1:43PM
Another happy DLP customer here. The Samsung LED models are beautiful to watch, consume less power, and are cheap for the screen size. I paid $1100 for a 56 inch model. Honestly... how many people hang their TV's on the wall? I've got a stand full of equipment that is deeper than the TV set. They may not be as sexy as an LCD or Plasma but RPTVs are a great value.
Ernesto @ Nov 18th 2008 1:56PM
Wow, the dissing of RPTV never ends ! First off, in case you don't know, they've always given the best picture and with the advent of flat panels, the best value for the money. Remember these sets used to cost $4-6K. Its just supply and demand. Look how cheap plasmas have gotten as manufacturers push LCD. About RPTV's only disadvantages are of course depth of the unit, viewing angle, screen brightness and uniformity, and lack of 1080p on older models (but they all will do 1080i and 480p/540p).
I still have a 2003 Hitachi 57" CRT in my home theater and its fantastic. I go from my normal viewing of a 2007 Sony 60" SXRD and can't believe how good the CRT still looks after all these years and it probably needs a cleaning and I'd love a calibration. I've even considering swapping them as the Sony has 1080p and tv broadcasts aren't that high anyway.
So lets start on their downsides. Viewing angle. Honestly, who in the world tries to watch directly to the left or right of the screen ? The ACTUAL viewing angles you'll be using at home aren't that bad (or shouldn't be). It just seems that way as you're at Best Buy or what have you and you walk alongside or look down the row of tv's and see the barely viewable RPTV. But is that how you'll be watching in your home ? Do you purposely put yourself out of the sweet spot ? Vertical angle is actually the major one to worry about but these things aren't mounted high up on walls so that shouldn't be an issue. Its not as good obviously but in actual use ? In my home theater, this only happens if you're way off to the side sitting near the FRONT speakers in which case, you're screwed anyhow.
Depth of the unit. Not that bad, I think my SXRD is 15", far better than my Hitachi at 25" plus it needs more inches in the rear to accommodate cabling. The Sony's are off to the side where it doesn't interfere and is actually much nicer to get to. Is it worse than 3-5" and wall-mountable ? For sure. If you're able to live with the depth, however, non-issue. I understand the sexy-ness factor and if you have space constrictions but not everyone is affected by this.
The main things I notice when comparing them (flat panel vs RPTV) is that they don't seem as bright or detailed in comparison, those are the two biggest things to me. BUT, remember these things are in torch mode and have sharpening settings on full or high. At home, I sit 6-8 feet away from either of my sets and trust me, I don't sit there wanting more brightness nor detail. In fact, my settings are set to 50% or below for most settings. I can increase these or put them to VIVID if I want that wow or pop in the image that I'm sure most of the uninformed consumer really like. Of course, then its too bright for prolonged use (especially when the lights are off) and things are over-sharpened and people have sunburned skin.
The point is, image-wise, once you get it home and you don't have a torch lit set next to it to compare, you don't miss it or want more. Your eyes become accustomed to it and you'll be perfectly content. What you see at the store is not the correct way to view anyhow and will shorten your set's life, (at least in terms of brightness) but I know people like it and most might not even go into their video/picture settings.
RPTV are on their way out and I've wanted a flat panel but the price and the fact that I'm getting lesser of a great picture has deterred me. Did you ever hear about a CRT set having a poor black level ? Did you ever see artifacts or macroblocking on a CRT set ? Did you know your old CRT set can do 1080i while it took flat panels seemingly forever to get there (at a much higher price and again, with less than ideal image characteristics) ? Btw, CRTs aren't constrained to a native resolution so don't look like crap when they're not. RPTVs are older technology but most uninformed people don't realize they've always had a better image qualities. Its old but proven and is still great if unpopular due to its form factor.
Ernesto @ Nov 18th 2008 2:00PM
My apologies, it didn't seem that long when I typed it, LOL.
squiggleslash @ Nov 18th 2008 2:22PM
Why are you apologizing? Based upon personal experience, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I think your points are interesting and they add to the discussion. It's the "Nah you're wrong, RPTVs are way better", "No, they're crap" two liners that the discussion can do without.
With regard to viewing angle: my wife and I are significantly different heights, and I know that from a few feet away, a few inches up and down can make a significant difference in terms of the contrast and brightness of the image on an RPTV. It's not just left and right that are at issue here.
Despite some complaining the same issues apply to LCD, I just don't find that, and if you walk into a store and see both next to each other, the contrast, brightness, colour, and consistency of the LCD screens always seems remarkably pronounced compared to RPTVs. Now, I know some will claim (rightly) that LCDs generally get put on an exaggerated set of settings when they're in stores, but it's also true out of stores. It's true, for example, in sportsbar type restaurants where you tend to see the two together these days.
I don't doubt you can't beat it for the price, I'm just very surprised that the audience here on EHD feels RPTVs have a superior image quality. I just don't find that, in my experience. Perhaps this part of Florida just doesn't have any good ones.
Big Wizz @ Nov 18th 2008 2:09PM
Got a 61" Samsung LED DLP. I've had it for about a year and a half. Not one regret.
Great picture, viewing angles aren't as horrible as everyone says they are, mine's a LED so no bulb to replace, 1080/24p, etc, etc, etc.
LB @ Nov 18th 2008 4:04PM
I repair televisions for a living and I think projection TVs are a much better value than flat panels.
I would never buy plasma set. The failure rate of plasma sets is at astronomic proportions. They almost never can be fixed economically. Bad panels, parts unvailable or multiple board failures are very common.
Maybe when LCD sets are all using LED backlighting then maybe I would consider a flat panel.
Some projection TVs are a great value And repair costs are almost always cheaper. We've had some problems with Samsung DLPs where the DMD boards were failing like crazy and expensive. They would be easy fixes if Samsung didn't gouge on the parts.
The Sonys are pretty nice sets too. And they are better than other companies at doing recall repairs of epidemic problems.
Jeremy W @ Nov 18th 2008 4:56PM
You can pry my DLPs out of my cold, dead hands.
Spiza @ Nov 18th 2008 5:01PM
I talked my dad into buying a 61" Samsung LED DLP, its yet to arrive, but I did look at in the store. It appears an angle more than 45 degrees from center kills the picture, but the TV is going in a corner, so problem sovled there.
Now I have my plasma on the wall on an arm so I can watch it from the kitchen and living room.
LonnieDvD @ Nov 18th 2008 7:46PM
My local stores don't even sell CRT's or RPTV's anymore. Everything is HDTV, and has been for a while.
Spiza @ Nov 18th 2008 8:08PM
Uh, RPTVs can be HDTVs genius.
The Fuzz 53 @ Nov 19th 2008 9:53AM
How can somebody that actually read this site mess that up.
Nothing should surprise me anymore.
Jeff C @ Nov 19th 2008 11:48PM
"RPTVs are older technology but most uninformed people don't realize they've always had a better image qualities. Its old but proven and is still great if unpopular due to its form factor."
Yep, thank the uninformed people for that one. Same is going on with MiniDV camcorders, everyone sees the DVD camcorders and thinks, yeah its DVD, so it must be better than that old tape format. Nope, not true DVD is more heavily compressed then MiniDVD tapes. Same is true for most people I talk to. They have no idea what black level is and just assume that because RPTV is older and bigger that it must be worse in every category of performance and features than that newer slicker looking LCD that can hang on the wall like art work. Sigh :(
I own a 60" Sony SXRD LCOS that I got for only $1550 since they were closing them out and the picture is phenomenal. It has HDMI 1.3, 1080p via HDMI, 120 Hz, deepcolor, and more. Brightness, don't care as my room is light controlled and dark. View angle, don't care its only me and the wife sitting on the couch. Depth, not a concern since it fits just fine on the TV stand and still leaves 5 inches on both sides on TV stand. So for that price and incredible black levels and color presentation, you can't beat it. And it uses much less power than LCD or Plasma so I save money there as well. Its a shame that Sony decided to get out of this business just prior to the economy tanking. I do believe they would have sold alot of these in Feb 2009 if the economy is still in a rut which most predict.
What I don't get is why LCDs are priced so high. It does not make sense. CRTs were costly and huge to transport from Japan or China and the tubes could not have been cheap either. LCD on the other hand seems like it should have made the costs of production and shipping much less. Hopefully, this economy brings LCD prices down to what it probably should be. And I think this years holidays and Feb sales of LCDs will probably be a wakeup call for these electronic companies. People are not just going to feel safe charging a 1K plus purchase when people are losing jobs left and right. And they were just as surprised when people took their government stimulus checks and paid bills or put it in the bank instead of buying that new LCD.
And with technologies like LED and Laser to be introduced into most sets soon, alot of even educated buyers are holding off on pulling the trigger. I'd like a 52" Samsung LED for the bedroom but its not going to happen anytime soon at these prices. But I would buy a 55" LCOS RPTV for $1100 with no hesitation vs spending $3400 on a 55" Samsung LED Series 9 with comparable black levels.