Editor ponders: Do you need a Blu-ray player?
Right, so the obvious answer here is: "No, you don't need a Blu-ray player." But, you know -- do you need a Blu-ray player? At its core, the latest argument put forth by an Orlando Sentinel editor is yet another debate over the viability of the format in comparison to upscaled DVD and in the wake of surging support for HD streaming, but there are certainly a lot of points made that we vehemently disagree with. According to the editor, the "difference between DVD and Blu-ray is nowhere near as striking [as VHS and DVD], despite what the consumer electronics retailers and manufacturers might tell you." He goes on to assert that a BD player simply isn't worth purchasing if you've already got a stout DVD library, particularly if you own an upconverting DVD player. Ruining any shot at anyone taking his view seriously were the remarks by his colleague, who watched Planet of the Apes on a BD deck and a $40 DVD player; according to him: "The features are fancier, but the picture? No improvement. Investing in a [Blu-ray] player... is a needless expense. Downloads are the future, not discs in a cute blue box." Let the firefight begin.
[Thanks, Anthony]
[Thanks, Anthony]






















Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Jordan @ Nov 16th 2008 5:59PM
Did the dude have his glasses on and his surround sound turned up? The differences are staggering ecspecially when it comes to hd audio. Upconverted dvd players are ok but nowhere near the hd quality of blu ray.
Gus @ Nov 16th 2008 5:57PM
""difference between DVD and Blu-ray is nowhere near as striking [as VHS and DVD]"
He certainly got that part spot on, anyone who thinks differently is just being a fanboy.
derek @ Nov 16th 2008 6:17PM
/facepalm
Byrdman @ Nov 16th 2008 7:08PM
this is coming from the guy with an HD-DVD avatar
Gus @ Nov 16th 2008 7:16PM
Hey doofus, the avatar is a 'pun' you know, humor, "HD DVD-The Departed", but I guess it takes a little intelligence to get that one.
THizzle7XU @ Nov 16th 2008 9:07PM
From the article:
"One thing I didn't like is that all of the Blu-ray movies I watched were widescreen, so there were black bars above and below the picture on my HDTV until I stretched it or zoomed in."
Why is anyone respecting this guy's article when he writes things like this?
Gus @ Nov 16th 2008 9:16PM
Unfortunately he is a representative of the public at large and the ignorance that surrounds new technology and HD in particular, the J6P crowd, and he represents why blu ray is going to struggle to be anything other than a niche.
YouFaceTheTick @ Nov 16th 2008 9:27PM
Here's the deal - most people don't have TVs capable of 1080p. We own two HDTVs (had three when my wife and I met). I tend to always have the newest toys but on this one I've waited.
And I'm glad I did for a few reasons.
1. I realized our DVD collection is worthless and I will not repeat that mistake. We sold off our DVDs to a used shop. Bu-bye. We will never really have a need to watch a movie repeatedly. Why not? See #2.
2. We have Netflix - I've been a member since 2000 (like I said, early adopter). We can order up a movie we want to see and in a day or two we'll get it in the mail. At 4 out at a time for $19 a month, it's great deal that gets us about 15-16 DVDs a month.
3. We have HDDs that have the ability to store and feed movies if we wanted to rip them. Again, don't see the point in wasting the space though as we simply don't re-watch movies.
4. HD-streaming by Netflix. It's available for Xbox 360 and coming to the Roku and some Samsung/LB Blue-Ray players. The Roku offers the most logical option for us because it allows for instant access to 12,000 titles on Netflix, it's only $100 and it's viable as long as we have Netflix, which after 8 years it seems likely is a part of our lives. Eventually the Roku is to get HD-streaming.
We talked about the BR players from Samsung and LB but eventually came to a few conclusions. We've got two HDTVs, plenty of DVD players and really no need to see any movie in 1080p. watching it at the stores (Sony Style, etc) we can see there's a difference. A tiny but noticeable difference and really it's only on newer films. The other features of BR will not be not used by us just like the extras currently on DVDs (again, early adopter of DVD in 2000 and the extras are ignored now). We're not concerned with tie-ins, alternate endings, extra facts, etc.
we'll continue to rent films and we'll use the Roku to watch stuff instantly. If we move now we'll probably help push Netflix to deliver more content online. Eventually we hope to see more and more available that way.
Maybe we're odd but if not for Directv Sunday Ticket, we'd cancel our satellite/cable TV all together. There's not enough available exclusively on TV to make it worthwhile.
Stin @ Nov 16th 2008 9:53PM
HTPC + 1080p mkv FTW!!!
Spiza @ Nov 16th 2008 10:17PM
@THizzle7XU @ Nov 16th 2008 9:07PM
I always wondered why they didn't include a way to do zoom to 16x9 from the disc. All you would need is a reference pixel for every frame and just let you switch between views if you like.
Mote @ Nov 17th 2008 12:00PM
The same could be said for all HD media content being delivered. Your fanboy argument is stale.
Dave @ Nov 16th 2008 6:10PM
If you can't see a "striking difference" between DVD & Blu-Ray you really need to check your set up because the audio & video in Blu-Ray is a big jump in quality over DVD.
anyone that thinks differently is probably just a bitter hd-dvd fanboy!
Gus @ Nov 16th 2008 7:22PM
What the author meant was , the difference between VHS and DVD is greater than DVD to bluray, again a little intelligence needed there. I own blu ray and agree audio and video are brilliant, but the differences were far greater from VHS to DVD than DVD to bluray, a fanboy I'm not but hey, you blu vein fan boys carry on, give yourselves a big pat on the backs and enjoy the niche.
WebDev511 @ Nov 17th 2008 2:32PM
For Planet of the Apes, the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray audio would be nil. 1968 movie with a MONO soundtrack.
Eliminating the black bars by zoom or strech just illustrates the fact that this guy has no business being a technology writer.
daaper @ Nov 17th 2008 4:56PM
"For Planet of the Apes, the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray audio would be nil. 1968 movie with a MONO soundtrack."
Could it be that they're talking about the 2001 remake?
daaper @ Nov 17th 2008 5:26PM
nevermind...missed the "first" Planet of the Apes part
Josh Haagen @ Nov 16th 2008 6:22PM
The man must have left his contacts out and forgot his glasses if he didn't see a difference between a blu-ray and dvd player. One look and the benefit is clear. Now if the price is worth it thats another argument and up to the persons wallet but the technology difference is clear and I want one.
Multi-format-mayhem @ Nov 16th 2008 6:33PM
Most HD TVs are 32" - 42".
The majority of those sets are, by far, also 'only' 720p sets.
At normal viewing distances on a small HD TV limited to 720p Blu-ray offers almost nothing over DVD.
In addition most do not have audio kit to a high enough standard to even hear the better audio on offer either.
The blinkered Blu-ray fanboys might not care to admit it but in view of the facts these guys are in fact totally correct.
Couple all of this with the current dire economic climate and it's clear Blu-ray is staying a high margin niche product and not heading for mass adoption.
It simply does not have enough appeal to enough people to justify it's relative expense in the mass-market.
Most will never bother with the huge HD TV necessary to 'see' 1080p properly
and few will ever splash out on the high end audio equipment necessary to even hear
the improvement over vanilla Dolby Digital/DTS.
Just because those that love this stuff wish it was otherwise
(for the purely selfish and rational reason that mass adoption, even if it is a total waste to the majority buying in, would make their high-end niche less expensive to them)
does not make it any more likely.
The reason why the net is lately full of these types of story is blindingly obvious (to anyone balanced enough to see it).
The news is out.
Blu-ray is a completely pointless & unnecessary waste for the majority of potential customers.
The mass-market neither needs nor wants it.
The plain and obvious fact is that it's never going to be adopted quickly and widely enough to last.
The 5yrs the Samsung guy gave it may even turn out to be highly optimistic.
A poor X-Mas 08 and we may not see much Blu-ray by X-Mas 10.
needo @ Nov 16th 2008 6:45PM
Wow... such hate. Did Blu Ray run over your dog in the street?
Time will tell but I do not see Blu Ray going any where any time soon. Is it going to have as easy a time as DVD did? No, but when the market does catch up with larger cheaper HDTVs (Which is already happening.) and lower cost Blu Ray disks and players (Which is also already happening.) Blu Ray's adoption will climb and DVD will be phased out. Just like what happened with VHS. It will not happen overnight though. VHS decks just recently stopped being produced.
Blu Ray is paying the price for being a relatively future proof distribution system.
I do not understand all the hate for Blu Ray.
Multi-format-mayhem @ Nov 16th 2008 7:02PM
No needo, it's not "hate".
Don't be ridiculous.
It's something different altogether, it's called dispassionate evaluation of the facts.
You might care to try it sometime, huh? :P
Spiza @ Nov 16th 2008 10:20PM
Don't forget that those sets are also LCDs MFM, which would also show less of a difference.
WebDev511 @ Nov 17th 2008 2:39PM
1080p source on a 720p display > 480p source upconverted to 720p. that doesn't even take into account new transfers or encodes.
ie See Blade Runner DVD from 1999 (I think) to last year's 5 disc set ( on either HD DVD or Blu)
Of course noting can make an HD source (Blu, OTA, HD DVD, etc) look good if the consumer botches the setup.
massive_98 @ Nov 16th 2008 6:35PM
The arguement that BRD-DVD is a better jump than DVD-VHS is like saying the new HD videos from iTunes are better than the old SD videos. While the HD ones have more resolution and better sound the old ones were not plagued by chronic fuzziness, static and saturation like VHS was. DVD was a huge step in quality.
Blu-Ray is a moderate step in quality.
I do agree with your Blu-Ray audio arguement though. The audio is much bigger leap than the VHS-DVD leap.
CB17 @ Nov 16th 2008 6:38PM
Expecting people to upgrade to a Blu-ray simply because it has a better picture is no different than asking someone to upgrade to a $1000 Bose stereo system. Sure it might sound better but does your average person care? No.
Now in the case of digital distribution, you're actually talking about something OTHER than quality. Now you're talking about ease of use and accessibility and THAT's something that many people WOULD worth upgrading for. THAT is the reason why people were so eager to switch to DVD, it not only offered a better picture but a better experience even for the basics (fast forward, rewinding, etc). With Bluray other than quality, the only people who are gonna get the enhanced experience are the people who spend the extra effort to find the extra features.
Multi-format-mayhem @ Nov 16th 2008 8:37PM
Jebus H man, no, no, no, no!
Bose kit is over-priced poorly spec'd junk for the gullible and advertsing-afflicted.
CB17 @ Nov 16th 2008 9:19PM
Fine...Klipsch...happy?
CB17 @ Nov 16th 2008 9:26PM
Ok fine, Klipsch, happy? It was just an example...jeez.
ropeburn @ Nov 16th 2008 6:39PM
from the article
For another perspective on Blu-ray, I loaned the Sony player to Roger Moore, the Sentinel's movie critic. He watched the Blu-ray version of the first Planet of the Apes movie on a 42-inch 1080p TV and compared the experience with his usual disc player, a $40 model from RCA with HDMI connection.
"The blacks were superb, the colors clear and precise, the striations of the canyon walls in the desert locations of Apes were brilliant," Moore said. "But the ugly truth of the matter is that once you've got the 1080 HDTV, once you've bought a DVD player with HDMI cable connections, Blu-ray is superfluous. The features are fancier, but the picture? No improvement. Investing in a player (unless you already have a Blu-ray ready PlayStation) is a needless expense. Downloads are the future, not discs in a cute blue box."
Mr Moore, you sir are an r-tard if you think that your DVD player is pushing as good a picture even if it's got HDMI output. What's going on down there in Florida?
besides recent surveys come back that consumers would rather OWN a disc than rent or download a film. I think there's a place for something like the Apple TV because besides tv and movies it has the ace up the sleeve, video podcasts in HD!
Mike S @ Nov 16th 2008 6:51PM
I only have a 40" Samsung 720p LCD I bought a couple years ago right when 1080p sets were just coming out. My Philips upconverting dvd player has a great picture over HDMI @ 720p. I bought a Samsung BDP-1500 and it is marginally better on some movies @ 720p over DVD. What I notice is less macroblocking, finer detail and colors are better. I tend to notice TV HDTV programming to be more striking than film. I think that is the key. Hollywood films are do not take advantage of some of the brilliant picture that comes from HDTV cameras used on TV shows. Films tend to be less colorful and dynamic. Now, if CSI Miami is on blu-ray, that is one dynamic colorful HD show.
LB @ Nov 16th 2008 6:53PM
The guy must work for Toshiba or the Cable company or is connected with the downloading business somehow. Seems like there are so many people who think Bluray is destined to fail, including sore losers like Toshiba and HD-DVD early adopters,cable companies and everyone who is related to the download business.
DVDs are not Bluray quality and will never be. Downloads will never be either. The download companies are too bandwidth-conscious (greedy) . So they compress everything and think no one will notice.
I think Bluray will go over big. Especially for videophiles, audiophiles, collectors, anyone who wants to watch a movie more than once. And anyone who doesn't want to see downloads change the entertainment industry for the worse
I don't understand why there are so many editorials dedicated to predicting the failure of a format like there is with Bluray.
TJ @ Nov 16th 2008 7:17PM
I'm not a Bluray fan myself, yet. I really don't like the idea of paying for digital downloads (just look at what's been happening recently with DRM'd music collections from places like Yahoo and Walmart. Yes, they seem to be doing the right thing in the end, but it's a lot of hassle to get there). I'd much rather own physical media.
I'm down with the idea of buying a Bluray player at around $200. It'll suck that I won't be able to take those discs on flights with me for use on my portable DVD player (I don't travel with a laptop. Work can stay at home.) On the other hand, I don't like the idea of paying up to $30 for a movie. My personal "impulse buy" levels are about $10-15 for a film, and $25-30 for a season of a TV show. If I'm looking forward to a specific film, I don't mind paying a little more to get something I really want. So let's say $25 (film) or $50 (TV show). Bluray just hasn't quite hit that "impulse buy" level for me yet.
It's likely that I'll pick up a Bluray player on Black Friday this year, but it'll probably be used mostly as an upconverting DVD player for the timebeing. $1/month to get Bluray from Netflix is reasonable, especially now that I'm starting my subscription back up with the NXE hitting this week.
Multi-format-mayhem @ Nov 16th 2008 7:23PM
TJ
Use a Blu-ray player as an upscaler!?
Seriously man, all (and I mean all) of the Blu-ray players currently available
(with the possible exception of the extremely expensive Denon and the yet to appear Oppo)
are poor to very average at upscaling.
You'd be better off with sticking a $100 DVD player in the meantime.
Check the a/v forums and see, the LG was good (it had the QDEO scaler) but has gone, the rest are so average it makes you think they made them poor upscalers to exaggerate the differences to their potential (gullible) owners.
Even the Pioneers (which many had great hopes about) turn out to be a real let-down.
TJ @ Nov 16th 2008 8:40PM
Multi-format-mayhem
Thanks for pointing that out, I honestly hadn't realized that the current Bluray players were that bad at upscaling. In that case, I think I'll just stick with using my (HDMI-less) Xbox 360 with a VGA cable. From what I can tell, it seems to do a respectable job at upscaling, and I don't need to add another piece of equipment to my system. (Crossing my fingers that watching too many DVDs on it wears out the optical drive, and I have an excuse to get a new 360 with an HDMI port).
Spiza @ Nov 16th 2008 10:29PM
Do your research TJ. Some of the blu-ray players have excellent upscalers in them, but no, they are not as good as oppo's. Oppo's player that is coming out may change that though.
Multi-format-mayhem @ Nov 16th 2008 7:02PM
"I don't understand why there are so many editorials dedicated to predicting the failure of a format like there is with Bluray."
Precisely.
The Blu-ray fans just don't get it.
They write off the whole matter of screen size & resolution as "hate" or some idiotic BS about HD DVD.
The world is leaving Blu-ray behind & the fanclub are too blinkered & confused by events.
S'funny, I mean, it was only supposed to be "haters" & disgruntled HD DVD 'supporters' saying this stuff and now it's everywhere.
Time to wake up fanboys.
Blu-ray on a 32" - 42" 720p set really is no big leap over upscaled DVD and the Dolby Digital receiver sounds just the same with DVD.
Truth hurts, huh?
jarofchris @ Nov 16th 2008 7:24PM
Multi-format-mayhem, in your own comments you acknowledge that it is, in fact, a matter of screen size and resolution since you keep talking about small lcd screens without full HD resolution. OF COURSE there is little difference between BD and DVD with low-grade equipment--try watching DVD and BD on a 21 inch bedroom CRT and see how much of a difference there is.
If consumers were buying smaller and smaller TV sets then you would actually have a point. Your argument fails when you fail to account for the fact large full-HD sets are rapidly dropping in price and are being bought in increasing numbers.
Comments like "the world is leaving Blu-ray behind" seem pretty ignorant as Blu-ray continues to steadily and quickly increase market share v. DVD and has not yet even gone through its first major consumer shopping season as the sole major HD format.
And comments like "time to wake up fanboys" "idiotic BS" "truth hurts, huh" and other such crap makes you look pretty hateful. In the future, try not to confuse your narrow-minded, angry statements with dispassionate evaluation of the facts.
Multi-format-mayhem @ Nov 16th 2008 7:28PM
Actually jarofchris EngadgetHD carried the story here recently.
Figures to Sept show 720p sets still make up the majority of HD TV sets sold.
The majority of them are, by far, 32"- 42".
Sorry but you are just wrong and those who make such outlandish claims about Blu-ray are wrong.
Peace-whatever @ Nov 16th 2008 8:54PM
Hmmmmm...... watching DVD's on a huge tv doesn't seem to be a good idea, but this would most llikely apply to a person with 20/20 vision and Upscaling DVD players are available. If I had an HDTV, my investment would be worth it if I took advantage of the HD capabilities, but I could rely on cable/satellites HD services, but they might be compressed and a little blocky looking. According to Wikipedia, the demand for CRT TV's have decreased, but there are also flat-panel SDTVs. Internet downloads could work, but there's a possibility that the movie could be deleted (although you may be eligible to re-download it for free), and I don't have enough bandwidth in my area to handle excessive amounts of data; plus, the future of bandwidth CAPS could limit the future of TV downloads. The Analog shut-down is in 2 months, so..... people might have to get new tvs, but they could get a converter. To me, blu-rays are high-definition versions of DVD's, so I think I should take advantage of a blu-ray player to make use of my investment. For satellite/cable services, I think a lot of content in half of hd channels are still SD or vertically letter-boxed. For the people who have a lot of DVDs and considers buying an HDTV, a DVD upconverter is a solid choice, a Blu-ray player is more luxurious. I just think Blu-ray might make it. If the movie studios and TV makers keep promoting blu-ray, it may make it. The adoption might take a decade or more from now, but when it comes to Super Hi-Vision, that's a different story.
Leon @ Nov 16th 2008 8:54PM
The amount of ignorance is shocking. The subject here is not whether or not Blu-ray is significantly better then DVD. The question is if the difference is as important as VHS to DVD. The answer is obvious people. DVD not only represented a big leap over VHS in picture and sound, but is was a completely different medium (Tape to Disc). The advantages were huge (Fast Forward, Rewind, Special Features, etc.). All things that ANY consumer can see the benefits of, regardless of the quality of there Home Theater. Blu-ray does not even come close to doing this. We still have a disc based format, with many of the same features. Blu-ray took what we already had in DVD and made it better (better picture, sound, more features). It did not introduce anything new to the extent of DVD did over VHS. I have both, Blu-ray and HD DVD. But let us not let our passion for HD cloud our judgement.
cwnyc @ Nov 16th 2008 9:19PM
All these comments on prediction of how Bluray is doing, how streaming downloadable HD video is doing... Sort of reminds me of the prediction of HD DVD in the recent past...
It really is sort of silly to predict this and that, only time will tell... I know, because I am an early adopter of new technologies.. I have been there... Yes, I have a Toshiba HD DVD player, and then I got a Panasonic Bluray player, and I have the latest Oppo upconversion player, and I have a 60" Pioneer Kuro and a 50" Vizio... Sure the difference between VHS and DVD is REALLY obvious in terms of gross performance parameters, but the difference between SD and HD is also REALLY obvious in many significant ways, just in different parameters...
Bottom line is, no one really knows how this will turn out... The success of any format depends on many factors and the factors which will kill a format are usually not predicted by anyone... Otherwise Toshiba would not have poured millions of $ into HD DVD... Otherwise all of us will buy technology stocks with 100% confidence and all of us will be rich... Truth is, all this prediction is really just chatter talk... I think its a bit amusing to see both camps here so confident... I suspect there is more ego here talking than anything else.. HD DVD camp was also very confident for a time.. ONLY TIME WILL TELL...
YouFaceTheTick @ Nov 16th 2008 9:28PM
I do know I'm usually a first-mover but on this one, I don't see enough value in BR to bet on it over streaming.
Miggity @ Nov 16th 2008 10:17PM
Planet of the Apes on a BD vs. a $40 DVD player: "...the picture? No improvement."
This guy either needs to get his equipment hooked up correctly or go get his vision checked.
Jake @ Nov 16th 2008 10:25PM
Alright, so here is how I have been wowing over my family, and proving that there is a BIG difference between DVD and Blu-Ray.
Go buy a copy of The Matrix Revolutions on DVD, and a copy on Blu-Ray.
Watch the scene where Neo and Agent Smith are fighting in the "broken" Matrix, where is it raining.
Look at the amount of detail -MISSED- in the DVD version versus the Blu-Ray. The Video from an upscaling DVD player vs the Blu-Ray is like night and day. The upconversion doesn't mean better detailing when there is a lot of fast motion. Blu-Ray allows a lot of the fast motion or extremely detailed movies to shine in 1080p. Thats why I went Blu-Ray.
Oh, and anyone who complains about "black bars" on the top and bottom of the tv set when they are watching a movie should be smacked in the head with a club. There are so many different wide screen measurements that could be used in the movie industry. Its not even funny how many there are.
Then again, maybe Blu-Ray is only for serious movie watchers... not the casual consumer.
Paul M @ Nov 16th 2008 10:31PM
The problem is that when I show an average buddy of mine a highly compressed source (ie. ipod version of a dvd rip) on my 42" hdtv, with us sitting ten feet back, he doesn't see the compression squares (or blocks, or jaggies, or whatever you want to call them).
I see them. Anyone reading this thread would see them, but does the public en masse? I don't think so.
On a bigger screen, maybe. But as long as joe schmoe doesn't see a HUGE difference, it will be a hard sell.
YouFaceTheTick @ Nov 16th 2008 10:54PM
Or BR is for people who care about visuals. I love movies - I've rated over 8000 on Netflix. But, I do not really care that much about the picture quality. Even with our HDTVs and DVD players the actual picture for a movie means little to me (for football it's all important). I watch films for the dialog, acting, direction, characters and storytelling. Next to FX the second least important part of any film to me - cinematography.
Someone mentions watching the Matrix as a way to see the difference with BR and I think - bland story, so-so acting, cheesey dialog, I don't care how it looks if the film isn't worth watching.
FWIW, DVD offered a few BIG advantages over VHS: no rewinding, can be mailed. BR does not have those advantages.
Streaming offers more advantages over DVD/BR - on-demand, no media to fall apart/break, greater selection, no storage issues.
needo @ Nov 16th 2008 11:11PM
Sheesh how are you handling your DVDs/Blu Rays that they fall apart? :)
Apoc @ Nov 17th 2008 7:39AM
maybe I'm a total idiot and should toss my laptop out the window now, but wasn't the whole point of the matrix to present an alternate reality? Perhaps this might actually happen? I don't know about you, but the possibility was strikingly scary. Ignore the cheesy dialog and the so-so acting, and watch the movie and try and figure out what the Wachowskis wanted you to figure out. I thought watching movies for face value was for the general public, and engadet was for those who think?
YouFaceTheTick @ Nov 17th 2008 12:34AM
Needo - Netflix/Blockbuster films often arrive scratched or broken. This wasn't any better in my few weeks with a PS3 - I received three BR movies and all were scratched beyond repair.
Rob @ Nov 17th 2008 7:57AM
Is movie-watching your full-time job? Seriously, 8000 movies rated on Netflix - I presume that means you've actually *watched* said movies, right?
A little math here - Let's say you started 8 years ago when Netflix was pretty new. That means you'd have had to watch 1000 movies per year. That's about 20 per week (yes, I'm rounding here). If you figure the average movie is 2 hours, that's 40 hours per week spent actually watching movies. Plus the time spent to deliver a thoughtful review.
You did actually *watch* said movies that you reviewed, right?
vltor @ Nov 16th 2008 10:58PM
"One thing I didn't like is that all of the Blu-ray movies I watched were widescreen, so there were black bars above and below the picture on my HDTV until I stretched it or zoomed in."
stretched it or zoomed in... yikes. Obviously not a true movie aficionado.