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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
DVD4ME @ Nov 5th 2008 6:25AM
Sony is losing money hand over fist, but they still continue with this proprietary BS that forms yet another expensive niche, when will they learn to start making what the public wants and return to the days of affordable mass market quality products that made them a family name in the first place, it seems they are hell bent on self destruction and are well on the path to achieving those goals if they keep going down the same old track.
Mark @ Nov 5th 2008 8:06AM
Compact disc, VHS, DVD, HD DVD, Blu Ray, MP3 and virtually every other consumer format starts off as proprietary. It sounds more like you have some kind of chip on your shoulder and are just using the story as a springboard to launch into a rant.
I think Sony is intending "blu-spec CD" to replace SACD since it allows a disc to play just audio on a CD player and play out in up to 7.1 audio with video on a blu-ray player. I could see a lot of potential in the idea for music discs.
squiggleslash @ Nov 5th 2008 8:51AM
Define proprietary. CD, DVD, HD DVD and MP3 were all developed by industry consortiums (interesting, Sony was a member of the consortiums that created the first three though, obviously, it didn't bother to take part in the discussions on HD DVD.) Only VHS and Blu-ray started out as proprietary systems and even Blu-ray had been opened to consortium control before the first Blu-ray player came out.
Blu-spec CD is presumably proprietary at the moment because Sony seems to be the only organization involved in its creation. That said, it's not the fact that it's proprietary that'll sink it, it's that consumers have already made their choice about where they want music distribution to go. Convenience and price is beating quality.
And if the industry had any sense, they'd realize consumers are right now making the same decision about movies.
Mark @ Nov 5th 2008 9:24AM
Proprietary as in a handful of companies create a format and then attempt to make it the defacto industry format. Sometimes it stands in competition to another format, sometimes not. I don't know what you are attempting to say by pretending HD DVD was a consortium effort and somehow Blu-Ray was not. The BDA had far greater industry support than HD DVD ever did which may go some way in explaining why it ultimately won out.
I do not know why you are dismissive of the concept of a CD / BD hybrid either. Anyone who is into their music, e.g. SACD fans, are not going to settle for 2 channel lossy digital downloads. If blu-spec CD is a modern equivalent to SACD, capable of playing on a CD player (and being ripped), and on a Blu-Ray player with audio / video, and without the high system requirements of SACD then it may prove a lot more succesful.
Multi-format-mayhem @ Nov 5th 2008 9:36AM
What "high system requirements of SACD" would not apply to a Blu-ray/CD hybrid?
You will still need a very decent (read expensive) receiver to play them properly and you still need an excellent speaker package to make the effort in any way worthwhile.
(cos without very high quality electronics & speakers all ideas of seriously high fidelity audio are just your imagination at work......and yes, this also applies to the funny fantasy so many seem to have regarding their Blu-ray audio & Dolby True HD, DTS HD-Master Audio & uncompressed audio)
Besides, what is the point of this, seriously?
To appeal to a minute segment of the market (who probably already gave up on new audio disc formats after the SACD & DVD-Audio debacle)?
Who would give CD much of a thought these days, nevermind a new ludicrously expensive version of it?
Mark @ Nov 5th 2008 10:31AM
A blu-ray player costs $200. A user doesn't need surround sound to get benefits from a hybrid disk, if that's what blu-spec CD is. The CD layer could offer audio and the Blu-ray layer could offer video and audio. The video could anything at all - pop videos, a live performance, featurettes, anything. It doesn't have to match with the CD layer although it could do that too if it wanted. Given the popularity of music videos, a hybrid that also played in a CD player would be a very popular bonus assuming it was priced reasonably.
Multi-format-mayhem @ Nov 5th 2008 11:05AM
"Mark @ Nov 5th 2008 10:31AM
A user doesn't need surround sound to get benefits from a hybrid disk"
So it's just a Blu-ray (maybe a sub-spec Blu-ray with only little clips or a series of stills like DVD-Audio?) with what would be a very expensive CD track then?
Either way if it's meant to encapsulate a truly high fidelity stereo-only audio track it's useless without a very high end audio set-up.
The same thing also applies to high end audio on Blu-ray.
Those who imagine they're getting anything like what it really offers on cheapo kit are kidding themselves.
daaper @ Nov 5th 2008 11:21AM
Multi-format-mayhem @ Nov 5th 2008 11:05AM
"Those who imagine they're getting anything like what it really offers on cheapo kit are kidding themselves."
So where's the cut-off then? I've been looking into a new audio system, but if I'm dropping the coin I want a major upgrade. Is it enough to spend $500 and on a decent receiver with all the latest codecs and another $1000 on speakers? I always hear that the cheapo speakers aren't as good (and I'm sure they aren't), but there has to be some diminishing returns...
Multi-format-mayhem @ Nov 5th 2008 11:36AM
@ daaper
The best thing I can suggest is to look for end of line deals, that way you get a lot of spec for the least amount of cash.
Basically high end audio costs large, always has done & always will do.
Sadly with a very small handful of exceptions the mass-market is really not high end.
When I last upgraded I bought a $2000 receiver & spent $3000 on the centre stage (L, R & C).
.....and unfortunately, if I'm being really honest, I could not seriously and in all good conscience call my stuff high-end.
It's not mass-market, for sure, but it's only near the top-end of the mid league.
I just can't justify spending more (a lot more) for what do become (as you rightly say) diminishing returns.
(but I can promise you that a leap out of the mass-market is well worth it)
daaper @ Nov 5th 2008 11:53AM
Truth be told, as I'm sure you could tell, it was a bit of a loaded question. While I can appreciate good sound when I hear it, my "money manager" doesn't see it like that. It's loaded because I'm already looking at these two:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/yamaha-rx-v663
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/satellite/emp-eca-4/
Honestly, I don't know very much about true high-end audio beyond the mass market and that makes it a pretty scary endeavor. I'm not sure there are places around me to experience much of it and I don't trust word of mouth and online reviews enough to spend more than $2k. I guess I need to find some real home theater stores and see if it's really worth it to me. I have to admit, unless I'm moving up to a 7.1 system, I can't imagine how big a difference it can make...but maybe that's part of the problem, too much imagining and not enough experiencing.
Multi-format-mayhem @ Nov 5th 2008 1:01PM
daaper
If only as a resource to go along & discuss & question a quality audio/home theatre shop is probably a really good idea.
You're right about how intimidating it can be, it's almost as if they expect a level of expertise well above anything anyone 'normal' (lol) might have.
It's a bit of an elitist thing for some & unfortunately it shows when you venture onto that territory.
The only saving grace here is that they really are not all like that and a lot of those that seem to be are only being that way to weed out the day-dreamers & time-wasters (and in that line of retail, like a lot of fields of retail, there are many).
A little persistance will bring rewards once they catch on that you are seriously interested and a possible serious buyer - and even if not on that instance then maybe in the near-ish future.
The only alternative to taking advice & reading reviews is to try and become an expert in the field yourself.
It can be done but it's time-consuming & complex and still filled with 1,000,001+ differing viewpoints.
BTW I'd rate Yamaha as a decent entry-level product (the Burr-Brown DACs in that receiver place it above the norm) and I would say not going for spec that you probably already have is not a bad idea (for instance why spend on an expensive scalerer in your receiver if your HD TV has a decent one).
The speakers?
I think anything 'compact' is a waste of your cash.
It's the same deal with receivers, quality components tend to be large, heavy and require space.
I know people like the convenience of small stuff but if you want to go beyond the mainstream you don't want compact, mini or micro anything.
Proper speaker cabinets are they way they are for a reason, it gives proper porting & better sound.
IMHO.
The one single piece of advice that stands above all others though is go and try stuff out.
They are your ears and you're the only one (well, ok, there might be a wife & family entering this equation too) that has to be satisfied with and live with whatever choices you make.
Good luck.