Sure, sure, the format war is over, but we never expected HD DVD to just disappear overnight, and it looks like the combination of deeply-discounted hardware, cheap media, and a weak economy are keeping Red alive even as Toshiba
pretends no one
really wants true HD anyway. Players are going for as little as $60 with movies available for $10, and retailers like Buy.com say that "sales are still very strong." Of course, eventually all this stock has to run out, so we doubt this'll be a long-lasting phenomenon, but hey -- stranger things have happened.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
h0mi @ Sep 30th 2008 1:58PM
Strong relative to what? Famous last words. I heard sales of HD DVD players were "strong" last year, and yet, Toshiba totally failed to meet their projections even with the surprise Paramount switch.
Junkie @ Sep 30th 2008 1:59PM
I'm thinking about buying a cheap HDDVD-drive for my computer (like the one from the xbox 360) and a nice 1TB HDD, and rip everything to that drive.
That will hold around 50 movies on the harddrive.
Should I do it?
RockinOscar @ Sep 30th 2008 7:53PM
i think your act of piracy is a great idea! you should do it and not look back.
Junkie @ Sep 30th 2008 8:03PM
Here in The Netherlands it is legal to copy a music.movie-disc for 'personal use'.
@Multi-format-mayhem
That's also an idea.
Bob @ Sep 30th 2008 2:05PM
I still occasionally grab and HD-DVD off of half.com if the price is right. $5.00 for a movie in HD-DVD/DVD format is a steal.
The Aggie CEO @ Sep 30th 2008 2:07PM
I snatched up a 360 HD-DVD drive and like 30 HD-DVDs a while back fro ma friend of mine for like $100.......I'm not gonna buy any HD-DVD tho.......no matter how cheap they get........
how much more stock can they REALLY have on this stuff tho??
The Aggie CEO @ Sep 30th 2008 2:08PM
I snatched up a 360 HD-DVD drive and like 30 HD-DVDs a while back fro ma friend of mine for like $100.......I'm not gonna buy any HD-DVD tho.......no matter how cheap they get........
how much more stock can they REALLY have on this stuff tho??
Multi-format-mayhem @ Sep 30th 2008 2:08PM
Toshiba are not pretending anything.
They have had the HD DVD experience and they know only too well that despite the wishes of it's supporters high def sales are very small.
People might not want to hear it but total high def sales are minute compared to total DVD sales.
Why should Toshiba put resources into high def when it's clear SD DVD and it's upscaling/upconverting varients are, by far, the major sellers?
@ Junkie
If you want you can burn the movies to a BD disc (the disc format is dead but the movie format is not, it's the same 3 codecs, VC-1, AVC & MPEG2, mandated to Blu-ray).
TrentD @ Sep 30th 2008 3:51PM
Eh, it's not quite that simple. HD DVD uses HDi, while Blu-ray uses BD-Java for the menus and interactivity, so those don't port directly over.
Multi-format-mayhem @ Sep 30th 2008 6:45PM
I didn't say it was simple, but it is easy and a lot of people are doing it.
A decent PC & a few simple software tools are all that is needed if you can get as far a ripping the movie from the HD DVD disc.
WebDev511 @ Sep 30th 2008 8:08PM
@TrentD
Apparently Universal just built a BD-Java class to interpret and render HDi, so they still author in HDi.
No, I don't have a source that will validate that claim, but I've yet to see Universal release a BD title that ventured beyond the scope of HDi.
DrXym @ Oct 1st 2008 8:56AM
Moving content from HD DVD straight to BD sans menus is fairly straightforward but it is way, way, way, way too complicated for mere mortals to do. The tools are unforgiving, unintuitive, complicated, hard to find and generally require a very deep knowledge of codecs, muxing and so on.
At its most basic, moving content is a matter of remuxing the H264 / AC3 content from EVO to TS and hey presto it works. Other video / audio formats and subtitles add additional complexity. Menus and interactive features are not portal and won't be short of somebody writing a runtime for HDi in BD-J. This is quite feasible (e.g. HDi uses ECMAScript & XML and there are JS engines like Rhino in Java). But I doubt it would happen any time soon unless you plonked down tens of thousands for a commercially supported tool.
Another problem is that BD recordable media is still fairly expensive which means splitting content over DVDs or transcoding it to a smaller size. This is a very time consuming process and adds another hideous layer of complexity. It takes a lot of trial and error to make work.
Bottom line, yes you can transfer HD DVD movie content (I do it myself), but its not simple or fast.
WebDev511 @ Sep 30th 2008 2:24PM
Sales will drop off. There are only a handful of titles I'm interested in, but as noted in the post, the economy has me scrutinizing all my purchases. The only way I would recommend an HD DVD player to a friend is if they don't have an upconverting player, don't want to spend $300 on a blu-ray player and there were at least ten movies on HD DVD that they couldn't live without. If that were the case, they could get a player and six titles for about $100.
Unless they were dead set against getting a blu-ray player, I think I'd rather tell them to hold off until Black Friday. Those sub $300 profile 2.0 players should be nicely priced for the holidays.
squiggleslash @ Sep 30th 2008 3:15PM
I think the Toshiba bashing was unnecessary. Every time Engadget does it it looks more and more ridiculous, demonstrating that EHD has an agenda that goes beyond simply liking HD. Toshiba hasn't sworn off HD, they think that Blu-ray is the wrong format. With Blu-ray really not taking off in any serious way since HD DVD's discontinuation, one has to feel they have a point.
Toshiba is making HDTVs. It's talking up downloads. It's also recently been talking up SD-cards (Secure Digital, not Standard Definition...) as a possible HD distribution format for kiosks.
As far as this story goes, well, there are a lot of people out there with HD DVD players. They fall into all kinds of category:
- People who just bought the players wanting HD. Many of them have bought Blu-ray players, but I'll wager few have actually ditched their HD DVD equipment, and they will buy HD DVDs over BDs where available 'cos they're cheap.
- People who bought the players because they liked what HD DVD was going to do. These people are not served by BD, and they'll buy the occasional HD DVD because they're available and cheap.
- People who bought HD DVD players after the Toshiba announcement because they were cheap HD and are waiting for BD to come down in price.
- People who hate Sony. I gather there are a few around. Likewise a lot of Blutards seem to be Microsoft haters and, now, Toshiba haters. Always thought chosing a format on the basis of which backer you hate is a really bad idea, but, whatever.
I'm kind of surprised Paramount and Universal didn't keep a "alternative HD DVD" option available. Nothing special, just disks pressed with the main feature - probably the exact same H.264 stream as the Blu-ray version - available via some alternative outlet, mail order or whatever. They'd net a few hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales per title from HD DVD die-hards they'd never squeeze money out of otherwise. Oh well.
I fall into the second category. I liked where HD DVD was heading. I just don't see much point in Blu-ray. If all you're interested in is an HD format, it's good for you, but I was much more interested in a next generation format, and Blu-ray isn't that, it's just an HD version of DVD. How ironic it was the one with the exciting name, and HD DVD was the one with the "HD version of DVD" name.
Pedro @ Sep 30th 2008 8:45PM
I read recently that the DVD forum have now ratified the TL51 Disc. Why would they do this at this stage do you think, CH DVD or whatever it's called now??
squiggleslash @ Oct 1st 2008 8:42AM
In all honesty, I think because the tech had already been developed and was already in the queue for approval. The DVD Forum doesn't exactly zoom through specifications. It's possible it's related to the CBHD stuff, but CBHD is, for the most part, an independent project so there was no need to approve changes that would only ever make their way into CBHD.
CBHD is the worst of both worlds, a crude optical-media based HD system that combines the 15Gb per layer capacity of HD DVD with the lack of integration and foresight of Blu-ray. Toshiba seems to be taking an attitude of "Sure, if you want to pay us royalties, we're not going to stop you" thing but they're certainly not taking anything like a substantial role in it.
As far as the DVD Forum goes, I must admit that last meeting they had made me fairly depressed. The "next big thing" the DVD Forum was going to do was release DVD 2.0, which would have created a standardized open framework for downloads (it's HD DVD, minus the HD, and with built-in backward compatibility with DVD.) They're still approving final specs for a discontinued format, and they're reducing the number of times they meet. By the time DVD 2.0 appears, you're going to find eBayers grabbing Blu-ray players to add to their HD DVD, Laserdisc, VHS, and CED players. And no, that's not a dig at Blu-ray, that's a dig at how long it's going to take.
Behnam @ Sep 30th 2008 3:45PM
WOW! Nfinity still seems to be purchasing heavily even until this very moment, same about TT I guess!
Good for Toshiba for having such hardcore loyal fans...
TrentD @ Sep 30th 2008 3:50PM
I LOVE the picture. Hilarious!
Big Sam @ Sep 30th 2008 5:13PM
I literally laughed out loud!
GhostDoggy @ Sep 30th 2008 4:15PM
I wonder if it has to do with retailers dumping inventory for less than the cost of regular DVDs. Fry's Electronics was selling them for $9-11 each. I still decided to wait for Blu-ray than buy into a dead platform.
DrXym @ Oct 1st 2008 8:41AM
Thats exactly it. Every retailer with stock is practically giving them away to clear them out. HMV.co.uk is selling titles for £2.99. I know since I snagged a few myself. The sales rankings show people are clearly only buying the heavily discounted items. I expect a lot of people like myself are just buying them up to rip or play on existing players.
Alex @ Sep 30th 2008 5:25PM
if retail sales were ever "strong" why did anyone bail on HD DVD?
Are BluRay sales "strong" as well?
T-bone @ Sep 30th 2008 6:55PM
I look at it this way since I already have a dual format player
A movie I want to buy.
DVD Version $14.99
HD DVD $7.77
Blu-ray $ Not available
Easy choice.
A movie I want to rent
DVD Rental $3.99
Blu-ray Rental $4.99
HD DVD (to own) $3.99-$5.99
Easy choice.
So the $300 I spent on my blu-ray player with the ability to play HD DVD's is really paying off.