Ask Engadget HD: Where are all the standalone OTA HD DVRs?
by Darren Murph 
posted Sep 17th 2008 at 12:00PM
"In the continued theme of the recent question regarding To TiVo, or not to TiVo?, I have a question regarding standalone HD DVR's. My question is: Where are they? Seriously, I don't want to pay a monthly fee to TiVo nor do I want to have to boot up a HTPC all the time. All I want is a standalone unit with no monthly fees to record OTA HD. Does an animal like this even exist? Thanks!"
Like we said, there are a few animals such as this if you don't mind scouring the secondhand market, but we'd love to hear from any relative newcomers that we've somehow overlooked. Oh, and where the heck is that EchoStar TR-50 we spotted at CES 2008?
Got a burning question that you'd love to toss out for Engadget HD (or its readers) to take a look at? Tired of Google's blank stares when you ask for real-world experiences? Hit us up at ask at engadgethd dawt com and keep an eye on this space -- your inquiry could be next.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
steedums @ Sep 17th 2008 12:11PM
tr50 is supposed to be out "around thanksgiving" for $299
Jeigh @ Sep 17th 2008 12:19PM
Also, it's now called a DTVPal DVR
jkluzi @ Sep 17th 2008 12:21PM
I realize I'm not answering the quesiton, but why would you have to "boot up a HTPC all the time?" Just leave it on. If it's power consumption you're worried about, then enable ACPI S3 (suspend to ram) - power consumption is minimal and your HTPC is back and ready to roll in seconds.
Derek @ Sep 17th 2008 1:06PM
I've often thought about making a HTPC for my setup, but I generally fin 2 problems with the Idea:
1.) I have DirecTv
2.) Its gonna cost quite a bit more than the $200 bucks I can grab a Dvr for.
I know you obviously get way more in the way of functionality, but I just can't see doing it any time soon... or until I win the lottery :P
glenn s @ Sep 17th 2008 2:53PM
@derek
I just built an HTPC for about $350 (Linux OS). That's not too much more than a stand alone DVR, which BTW is probably closer to $300 than $200. Granted, I did reuse a TV tuner that I already had. Many tuner cards will work with DirecTV by using an IR blaster to control to DTV box.
Tim @ Sep 17th 2008 11:54PM
I love my media center set up. I have 2 HD Home Runs (4 tuners) so I have no recording conflicts. My PC sits in the closet, happily recording whatever OTA programs I want. I use XBox 360s (one in the living room, one in the bedroom) to stream TV and movies around the house. And the media center has 4 TB of storage, so plenty of space for TV and movies. I can't record cable or satellite (yet), but I'm not missing it much. Plenty of HD for me. I think the best thing is being able to stop a program in one room and start it back up in another room.
Ankur @ Sep 19th 2008 4:05PM
@Glen,
If you don't mind me asking, what components did you use for your $350 HTPC? I'm looking to put together a low cost HTPC and would appreciate some suggestions.
Thanks!
kcmurphy88 @ Sep 17th 2008 12:37PM
If TiVo dropped their fee to $5/month they might have a much larger business.
Jim @ Sep 17th 2008 12:47PM
Yeah, what's up with that. I'd definitely buy one. I currently use a MyHD card in my PC to record HDTV. It works great with the QAM recording, but the OTA tuner is not the best. I get some dropouts, and can't tune in as many stations with it as I can with the OTA tuner in my (newer) HDTV and the new digital converter boxes (5th, 6th generation tuners I think) are much better. The MyHD probably needs a much larger outdoor antenna to record error-free. But a great feature is that MyHD works great with TitanTV. No Tivo fees. I'm not aware of any OTA DVR solution that does not require a PC today. It's definitely not a consumer friendly method though.
My *guess* to the reason is scheduled recordings. Personally I never had an issue setting a VCR back in the day, and I would have no issue doing the same for OTA HD. VCR+ could work here also. People want to see the guide on screen and simply push a button to schedule the recording. The EPG is available over ATSC, but it looks like a lot of programming/development work to program it into a intelligent application and install enough memory and that into a device and use it like Tivo. I bet after the digital transition, we'll see this happen and it may even end up inside newer TV's.
Or the MPAA is still trying to adopt the OTA broadcast flag (we see the reports that it's in there with Media Center, standing at the ready) and are strong-arming manufacturers in some way.
atmusky @ Sep 17th 2008 12:58PM
Maybe the question should be where is the "cheap" OTA DVR. TiVo's unit is a great dual tuner HD OTA DVR but it is going to cost you around $550 with lifetime service on it (about $250 for the unit then you will need a friend with a TiVo and they can add lifetime service to the unit for you for $299).
why not the LS2LS7? @ Sep 17th 2008 1:05PM
There's no market. What percentage of people who have HDTVs don't have satellite or cable?
Mp3 @ Sep 17th 2008 2:08PM
You're exactly right. The very few people who have an HDTV with no cable/satellite feed are almost certainly not going to spend hundreds on a DVR.
Amun @ Sep 17th 2008 3:26PM
Cable is mostly made of satan and failcookies. I catch my HD from the airwaves and I'd love to be able to easily record my shows without building an HTPC... The market exists, I say!
Guyver @ Sep 17th 2008 1:06PM
In the best interests of starting a conspiracy, you can easily buy one if you're in Europe:
http://www.pioneer.se/eur/products/42/125/501/overview.html
So you can either believe there's no market in the U.S. or you can think about if there are ulterior motives being played out between content providers and hardware manufacturers. :)
jim @ Sep 17th 2008 1:10PM
From Echostar:
The TR50 will be sold as the DTVPal DVR, and will be available around Thanksgiving for a price of $299. It will be available online through DISH Network. At this time we do not have any information on whether the product will be available through retail outlets. An online information site is planned for the near future. Please check back with us as we get closer to the product launch date. Thank you for contacting EchoStar. Regards, EchoStar Sales Team
Brent @ Sep 17th 2008 2:47PM
I'll go out on a limb here and say we'll see one or more companies come out with a standalone Tivo competitor within the next year. For instance, it looks like MS is moving this direction with it's Media Center product.
Steve @ Sep 17th 2008 3:03PM
Though I don't know why standalone HD DVRs don't exist for the OTA crowd, you can always buy a FTA satellite receiver that has an ATSC tuner and PVR functionality (as it seems to be called in the satellite realm). Units like the SonicView 8000 HD have a USB port for bring-your-own external storage which is okay by me since it appears to me companies want to charge you an arm and a leg for their own undersized disks.
atmusky @ Sep 17th 2008 3:49PM
I love these no market people - theirs no market for a DVR that records the highest quality HD you can get outside of a Blu-Ray Player for free? Really?? Just because someone subscribes to some level of cable or Satellite doesn't mean they don't (or shouldn't) use OTA to get ABC/CBS/CW/NBC/FOX/PBS in HD. My living room has a 50 inch Plasma, an HD TiVo for OTA, plus Satellite.
Ian @ Sep 17th 2008 3:53PM
Anyone use one of the CableCard OEM enabled PCs which will record either OTA or via cable using the CableCard with an ATI card?
Phil @ Sep 17th 2008 4:34PM
The problem isn't that there's no market for it. The problem is that people willing to pay will already have a TiVo, DVR from their satellite provider, or they'll build their own. They're willing to pay!
However, I suspect the vast majority of people that exclusively have OTA HD aren't willing to pay any more for their TV viewing pleasure. It's the same reason they don't have satellite or cable. ..
TEG @ Sep 17th 2008 5:40PM
There is no demand for free OTA DT-DVRs. A large number of people still can't differentiate between the DTV switch and HDTV for crying out loud. I have relatives who have an HDTV who I had to explain to them that they needed a box to get the HD/DTV signal (because it was HD-Ready), then they upgrade their Satellite system, and don't get an HDTV receiver, because they think that the regular receiver will give them HD picture. They just don't get it, and likely never will.
Those people who are on OTA and want a DVR are likely smarter people, and will either purchase a TiVo and its service, or buy/build an HTPC.
TEG
J.Goodwin @ Sep 17th 2008 6:28PM
If there was such a thing, I'd probably buy one for my grandfather for Christmas. He's staunchly anti-cable, but I'm pretty sure he would enjoy TV more if he could watch what he wanted when he wanted to.
I know I do.
Gus @ Sep 17th 2008 7:07PM
In Australia, we have HD DVRs galore. I read with interest a lot of you articles here regarding all you cable services etc because it is stuff I've never even heard of, we now have Tivo, but it is brand new to the market, no monthly fees but basically just a recorder, and it's struggling.
In Aus, it's a simple but effective set up, we basically have 1 cable company, so HD PVR/DVRs are hot property. We have a very good HD digital free to air service and as a consequence, we are often the next cab on the rank after Japan to receive the latest recorders etc. I love my Panasonic SD HDD recorder, it gets a flogging every day, and I am seriously considering the latest Panasonic 500GB HDD recorder, twin HD tuner with blu ray play back and recording ability, an expensive beast but probably the top of the tree as far as HD DVRs are concerned.
terry @ Sep 17th 2008 8:59PM
There was an OTA HD tuner that has DVR functionality built in for around $160 if my memory serves correctly, but whether that was including the coupon that the (US) government gave out for OTA HD tuners eludes me at the moment. I remember absolutely no specifics about the product, but I know that it does exist. I can't guarantee a price, or the quality of the recorded product (or actually much of anything), but I do remember seeing a product that fit the description. I wanted to buy it at the time, but I completely neglected it for some reason...
horngreen @ Sep 17th 2008 10:11PM
You're correct - I've noticed a suspicious absence of open set-top DVRs also...where the f___ are they????
The models you mentioned have not been manufactured for a few years! With the digital conversion almost here, you'd think set-top HD DVRs would be a hot item. I'm going with the conpiracy theory on this one!
MegaZone @ Sep 18th 2008 12:03AM
TiVo HD + Lifetime service = OTA HD DVR with no monthly fees
Matt @ Sep 18th 2008 9:59AM
The Tivo + Lifetime service may as well not be an option. Their website prices this at $399, WITHOUT the dvr. That will run you another few hundred. It's ill advised to believe that this is an option for those who aren't willing to pay for cable. Tivo should be 5 bucks a month for everyone.
adabbott @ Sep 18th 2008 10:37AM
I, for one, have an HDTV and am only OTA. I watch way more TV than I need too, so why pay $25-100 a month for programming I will never see. Seems that still people give you a crazy look when they hear you have a HDTV and no cable/satellite, and are amazed that I can "somehow" get HD programming for free.
So, several years ago I did get me one of the LG DVR's from that big auction site. Works great, but it's a shame there are no other real options, at this point, other than Tivo or an HTPC, for someone like myself. I think there is still a bit of uncertainty about the TR-50...
William C Bonner @ Sep 18th 2008 9:55PM
I've had my first TiVo since 2001, when I got a lifetime service on it. I got a TiVo HD unit a year ago, and just switched it to lifetime for $299. I know that makes it essentially a $600 box, but since the first one lasted 7 years and was only replaced because I wanted HD, I figure the lifetime on the new one will pay for itself in two and a half years. More importantly, there's no monthly fee, or worrying about the price changing.
Wim.
zuke @ Sep 22nd 2008 12:03PM
I thought the TR-50 was originally supposed to come out in the 2nd or 3rd quarter? I gave up waiting and purchased one of the free digital converter boxes instead. :( However, if the Echostar box comes out for something near $100, I'll probably pick one up and cancel my satellite subscription.
demon @ Sep 22nd 2008 8:47PM
The current claimed price for the TR50 is in the $250-$300 price range. Personally I think the quality's going to be sketchy enough at that price point. They're going to have to do some serious work to escape the TR40 (nee' DTVPal)'s stigma, since by all accounts it's turned out pretty poorly.
As far as where all the HD DVRs are? They're in Japan, where people will pay what it costs to make them. Americans have come to expect to get a DVR with their cable subscription - and unfortunately a lot of people aren't exactly excited about the quality of those units, so paying $500+ (or TiVo's prices, $300 or less + service fees) doesn't interest them. Of course, they need to realize that unless they are willing to pay the cost, CE makers will just keep skipping us with the new toys.
Chad @ Oct 23rd 2008 4:43PM
Dude, if you're gonna cancel your satellite subscription ($40/month?) then why wouldn't you at least be willing to be $240. That is just 6 months of savings.
I bought a Magnavox SD DVR DVDR about a year ago for $200 knowing that it would be a long time before I upgraded my TV to HD. Well it was only 1 year later that I bought a 47" LCD. Now I wish I had a HD DVR with DVDR. I can wait probably another couple of years because I only have OTA and only get a few stations with my little MD antenna. If I had purchased a larger MD antenna I'd be happier still because I can channels up to 100 miles away though they are choppy.
That is likely my next purchase, but not until I move out of my appartment (need a higher point to mount my antenna than the eves of the house.) I hope you all encourage the HD DVR market and by the time I'm ready there will be at least 2 or 3 manufacturers vying for the market.
Meantime, I looked at a Samsung SD DVR/DVDR and hated it. I love my Magnavox. I was warned not to get the Panasonic one that came out a year ago. My Magnavox DVR has a better tuner in it than my Insignia TV.
SuperX @ Sep 22nd 2008 8:24PM
Vapor Ware?????
Don @ Sep 26th 2008 10:53AM
Stupid question - Why can't we use the box like the Pioneer mentioned above - wrong tuner???
I have no problem paying $300 for the TR-50 - for now I have a TIVO-HD and paid way more w/lifetime service. Plus TIVO-HD allows me to convert my shows to Itunes and view them on my ipod. I've considered buying an Apple TV for that reason.
Adrian @ Oct 7th 2008 10:15PM
Here's an interesting website (169time.com) for a company that offers upgrades for satellite receivers to allowing recording and distribution of HD content and OTA HD content. It's a pricey route to follow, but offers interesting options.
Kevin @ Oct 19th 2008 8:46AM
The option I'm considering is the Philips DVR with a Digital Tuner, 160GB Drive and DVD Recorder for about $300. This is a fairly new product. I'm still researching it, but there are many good reviews. Here's a link to the product.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4922159
Russ Stodieck @ Oct 31st 2008 4:05PM
Good for analog OTA broadcast only. If I good get a unit like this that had an ATSC tuner, that would satisfy my need to replace my analog VCR.
Russ
Hans Elfert @ Nov 2nd 2008 1:18AM
I believe that all the OTA equipment has been firmly squelched by the enormously powerful and wealthy cable and satelite industry for obvious reasons. The only alternative we have is home made HTPC which is quite a can of worms for sure but, if you're willing to put that much time and effort into it, probably very effective.
gjack @ Dec 13th 2008 4:50AM
Totally agree about "firmly squelched by the enormously powerful and wealthy cable and satelite industry". There's no better reason for the lack of OTA DVR options in the US, and what a coinky-dink that the only one on the market (aside from insidious TiVo, which for OTA is a ripoff) is a DISH NETWORK product.
kenstl @ Dec 14th 2008 11:42AM
Agree with you gjack. They always site lack of demand as the reason for the product not existing, but I think this is a prime example of a product being squelched by big industry.
Hopefully once everyone realizes the quality of a digital signal OTA vs the old analog, more people will change over to regular programing.
I currently use a DVD recorder with an ATSC tuner, but it has it's limitations compared to the flexibility of a DVR with two tuners.
Product need includes:
2 ATSC tuners to enable you to watch one show and tape another
DVR recording capability (enables pause, replay etc)
Decent outputs compatibe with todays equipment
Can't wait!