Hands-on with the Vista Media Center TV Pack

The Microsoft eHome team's favorite beta tester is at it again, and this time they went as far as to share the RTM build of the Vista Media Center TV Pack (aka Fiji) with us -- lucky for us the update isn't language specific. We're not sure why Microsoft is officially holding back the details of this update until CEDIA, but either way all the previous details we shared with you are true. Although there is no H.264 support or DirecTV tuner information to be found, the new stuff we did find we really liked. We really had no idea how great native QAM support could be and this heterogeneous tuner support is much cooler than it sounds.
Installation was anything but simple and it's definitely not designed for end users. First we had to re-install Vista on our Dell XPS 420 and all the updates and drivers that go along with it -- not to mention lose access to all of our old CableCARD tuner recordings and recordings settings. Then, before we launched Media Center for the first time we ran the 50MB update (named MediaCenterTVPack_x86), and a few other miscellaneous hot fixes. Next we installed our HD tuner card drivers and finally ran the Media Center setup.
No real surprises during the setup, but we were delighted to see that our CableCARD tuners installed without a hitch using the original product key. The first hint of something new came when we were prompted to configure the clear QAM tuners that were found. Now that clear QAM is supported, we can have six tuners (2 ATSC, 2 QAM and 2 CableCARD) with Premium and twelve with Ultimate, not to shabby. Setting up the clear QAM was a cinch; in fact, the scan found all of the channels we expected it to. But after the channel scan was done, and we started mucking around, that is where the real fun started. We were happy to see all the channel 1000s gone -- good riddance -- and in the place of them were all the sub channels (finally!) right where they belong. But even better, we were finally able to remap every channel 8 from each tuner as one channel. So no longer do we need to worry about running out of tuners because some channels are ATSC and others are CableCARD, and best of all you can set the tuner preference for each individual channel.
You should realize by now that the clear QAM and the heterogeneous tuner support are the biggest new features, but that isn't it. The other new feature is favorites. You can finally create multiple lists of favorites and easily chose which to use in the guide.
We have to say this is a pretty nice upgrade, but most definitely not everything we wish it was. Beyond the obvious missing H.264 and DirecTV support, there are plenty of things we wish were included like: 16x9 thumbnails; ability to list Recorded TV by date and put it them in a folder; and the ability to filter keyword recordings by HD -- you can however now set series recordings to HD only -- just to name a few. The update isn't all good either, as we still haven't figured out which plug-ins are compatible and so far we haven't found anything that can play the new WTV file format -- yes we tried VLC. But as soon as we find a way to play back the files on another computer, we'll be sure to check and see if the new more lenient CableCARD DRM is in effect.
If you made it this far, you have to be wondering where you can get the update, and we wish we knew. Microsoft is going to officially announce the update at CEDIA (in about a month), but at this point it is expected that the TV Pack will be a OEM only update. Then, to add insult to injury, the few OEMs that have acknowledged the existence of the update have said it will only be available on new purchases. Doh.
**Update, there are a few links in the comments that appear to be the update.
No real surprises during the setup, but we were delighted to see that our CableCARD tuners installed without a hitch using the original product key. The first hint of something new came when we were prompted to configure the clear QAM tuners that were found. Now that clear QAM is supported, we can have six tuners (2 ATSC, 2 QAM and 2 CableCARD) with Premium and twelve with Ultimate, not to shabby. Setting up the clear QAM was a cinch; in fact, the scan found all of the channels we expected it to. But after the channel scan was done, and we started mucking around, that is where the real fun started. We were happy to see all the channel 1000s gone -- good riddance -- and in the place of them were all the sub channels (finally!) right where they belong. But even better, we were finally able to remap every channel 8 from each tuner as one channel. So no longer do we need to worry about running out of tuners because some channels are ATSC and others are CableCARD, and best of all you can set the tuner preference for each individual channel.
You should realize by now that the clear QAM and the heterogeneous tuner support are the biggest new features, but that isn't it. The other new feature is favorites. You can finally create multiple lists of favorites and easily chose which to use in the guide.
We have to say this is a pretty nice upgrade, but most definitely not everything we wish it was. Beyond the obvious missing H.264 and DirecTV support, there are plenty of things we wish were included like: 16x9 thumbnails; ability to list Recorded TV by date and put it them in a folder; and the ability to filter keyword recordings by HD -- you can however now set series recordings to HD only -- just to name a few. The update isn't all good either, as we still haven't figured out which plug-ins are compatible and so far we haven't found anything that can play the new WTV file format -- yes we tried VLC. But as soon as we find a way to play back the files on another computer, we'll be sure to check and see if the new more lenient CableCARD DRM is in effect.
If you made it this far, you have to be wondering where you can get the update, and we wish we knew. Microsoft is going to officially announce the update at CEDIA (in about a month), but at this point it is expected that the TV Pack will be a OEM only update. Then, to add insult to injury, the few OEMs that have acknowledged the existence of the update have said it will only be available on new purchases. Doh.
**Update, there are a few links in the comments that appear to be the update.























Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Ben @ Aug 8th 2008 8:02AM
The biggest rumored feature was that there would be a new tuner so you could watch HD on your VMC, but this isn't included. You can still use a STB and S-video though.
Scott @ Aug 8th 2008 10:14AM
Last night I went home backed up all music, pictures, email, programs and such.
Ran the recovery on my computer, which crashed, and I had to install from disc causing a two hour delay.
I installed only the drivers for my Hauppague 1600(It shows in the device manager as NSTC/ATSC/QAM COMBO.
Then updated Vista to service pack 1, fell asleep during this process, woke up at five to the sound of Vista restarting.
Then I follow the TV pack install instructions to the letter.
Open media center and,
wait for it....
No QAM tuner detected, analog cable only.
So, I think I understand why this is supposed to be OEM only.
Because while I'm dissapointed that this effort was essentially waisted. I would be nine kinds of pissed off if this was a legit "upgrade" that Microsoft sent out. And I went through 6 hours of install for it not to work. I'm sure there is a different tuner that will work with this.
If anyone has a sugestion, that seems like the next thing for me to try.
Oh well at least I have a fresh install!
OneLove @ Aug 8th 2008 10:52AM
@Scott:
What you should have done was install vista and service pack, etc, then ghost and save your HDD image. After that you can experiment all you want. If you fail, you just ghost the vista "fresh install" image back to the HDD and save time.
Also, you can try searching for QAM channels using the native Hauppague 1600 tuner application (if it has any) to verify that the problem is media center.
tsbartle @ Aug 14th 2008 1:08PM
Yeah, im having the same problems
Ben @ Aug 8th 2008 10:18AM
Sounds like you need a driver update on your tuner card. Luckily there was already a Fiji update for the HDHomeRun.
Check with the manufacturer.
JM @ Aug 8th 2008 4:02PM
New mirror anyone?? The two posted have been taken down.
Scott @ Aug 8th 2008 6:31PM
Ghosting is a good idea, next time I'll look into that. I had some pictures that needed to be archived anyway. Do you use Acronis or Norton or something else?
Before I went through the tv update I did have the QAM software from Hauppauge install and it deceted and played the QAM channels. I even tried a QAM plugin for vista from the manufacture but could not get it to work.
Maybe someone with this same problem will post a solution.
OneLove @ Aug 8th 2008 7:57PM
I use symantec (norton) ghost 11. Its a life/time saver!
PTardif @ Aug 8th 2008 10:52PM
OK, Had no problems installing the pack on top of OEM Vista.
I only managed to try the analog signal so far...everything seems quicker than before...transitions in MCE are now within the 60fps range.
captain_caveman2k @ Aug 9th 2008 7:20AM
Any info / leaks on the x64 build?
Ruald @ Aug 9th 2008 7:21AM
In this topic Microsoft said that for Dvb-S only FTA channels are supported:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1522
Is this sure or is PayTV an option by using a Common Interface?
Ruald @ Aug 9th 2008 7:21AM
In this topic Microsoft said that for Dvb-S only FTA channels are supported:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1522
Is this sure or is PayTV an option by using a Common Interface?
captain_caveman2k @ Aug 9th 2008 7:21AM
x64 mirror:
http://rapidshare.com/files/136020246/MediaCenterTVPack2008-KB953272-x64.zip.html
Aaron @ Aug 9th 2008 4:03PM
x86 mirror?
OneLove @ Aug 9th 2008 6:28PM
so you can see yourself while it downloads.
Aaron @ Aug 9th 2008 7:23PM
usefull links to leaks here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=b523af4d82ccee06f79c49badff6d2a9&p=14451290#post14451290
BIGGRIMTIM @ Aug 11th 2008 10:56AM
Working mirror x86 and x64
BIGGRIMTIM @ Aug 11th 2008 10:58AM
OOPS SRY here it is
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=30d15c758a398fcfd2db6fb9a8902bda
BIGGRIMTIM @ Aug 11th 2008 10:59AM
OOPS SORRY here it is.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=30d15c758a398fcfd2db6fb9a8902bda
BIGGRIMTIM @ Aug 11th 2008 11:07AM
Sorry for the double/triple post.
Cacasodo @ Aug 11th 2008 11:49AM
Guys,
This has been a very informative thread. And much thanks to Ben for some great, timely work. However, one thing I haven't been easily able to decipher from the thread is who has had success with QEM channels with which card.
If it's not too much trouble, can folks post who has had success with the TV Pack update and what tuner card you are using?
thanks a lot,
'sodo
Cacasodo @ Aug 11th 2008 1:33PM
I meant QAM, not QEM.
QED.
:)
plozen @ Aug 11th 2008 2:10PM
Is the link listed on page one still active?
plozen @ Aug 11th 2008 2:20PM
Never mind, comments weren't working so I couldn't see pages 2-3.
bbrewy01 @ Aug 11th 2008 3:24PM
Can someone tell me how they got the Hauppauge 1600 to work. I have tried this 5 times and with no luck. I reenstalled the driver and pack, also I have comcast cable.
Ubertrout @ Aug 11th 2008 4:16PM
Are you sure your 1600 supports QAM? Many of the older ones don't - you need to look at the model number.
Ubertrout @ Aug 11th 2008 4:18PM
Just to confirm, the file BIGGRIMTIM posted is the RTM of both the x86 and x64 versions?
Drewmcg @ Aug 11th 2008 6:44PM
I installed the TV Pack successfully; Vista Ultimate sees my dual-analogue Hauppauge pci tuner/capute card fine (both tuners), and my xb360 extender.
I've been waiting to get a pci-e QAM tuner card until Media Center would work with it. Now, it seems, it will.
I have basic cable (Comcast), but a half-dozen or so HDTV channels anyway are picked up by the QAM tuner in my HP HDTV.
Now I want to record those channels, so need a pci-e QAM card (preferrably dual tuner) that will be recognized by MC TV Pack.
Can anyone verify any cards that they have gotten to work? Apparently, the Haupphauge QAM tuner cards are not working or problematic ...
bbrewy01 @ Aug 11th 2008 7:35PM
Yes it does it is less than a year old and by Hauppauge website product code 14041 supports QAM which I have.
Scott @ Aug 12th 2008 11:12AM
I'm pretty sure the 1600 is just otworking with the update, i you have been reading the thread I tried install over my system & then tried the fresh install aproach with the same results.
I also am curious if anyone has succesully installed this and got QAM to work. No one has responded to this thread.
There have been sevral "success" stories but they have not tried QAM.
Drewmcg @ Aug 11th 2008 8:56PM
Sorry: Searched that product code at Haupphauge us/uk and could find no such product. Do you have a link?
Any other products work with the new MCE TV Pack update?
E.g., does Fusion HDTV7 dual express work? http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/ENG/products/HDTV7DualExpress.aspx)
AverTV Combo PCIe? (http://www.aver.com/mpd/combopcie.html)
Drewmcg @ Aug 12th 2008 12:48AM
Are there any electrical engineers out there who can decipher the relative strengths/weaknesses of these two tuner chips: http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/literature/9397/75015474.pdf (used on Haupphauge's new HVR-2200 and HVR-2250 PCIe tuner cards); and http://www.xceive.com/docs/XC5000_prodbrief.pdf (used on Fusion HDTV 7 Dual Express (and Haupphauge's WinTV-HVR-950Q USB)? Thanks.
Nova @ Aug 12th 2008 3:59AM
I've installed the TV Pack on two different computers now with 3 different tuner devices and everything has worked great so far. Both computers are running on AMD dual core processors with 4 gb of RAM and Nvidia 8600 cards (doubt that matters for this stuff, just thought I'd mention it anyways for noobies who might think similar setups won't work).
The tuners I used were the following:
ATI Theatre 650 Pro (PCI-E, Sapphire branded model) (good card)
ATI TV Wonder 650 Combo USB (great device, works perfect for me)
Pinnacle PCTV HD Stick USB (works, but I do not recommend)
I have a basic cable signal only.
Using the instructions in a previous post, all of the cards have been able to receive ClearQAM signals, but I did notice some problems (read: annoying but resolvable issues).
First of all, be patient when reinstalling everything. Restart after every device is installed, and use the newest drivers only. I also noticed that after EVERYTHING was installed and I started and set up Media Center, I couldn't get any ClearQAM channels. But after a restart, everything worked (I don't know why, but it was true with both of my computers).
Also, with a LOT of the ClearQAM channels I could get with my TV, I couldn't receive them with Media Center. There were two issues here. First, even if you think you don't need one, I recommend getting an amplifier. Digital signals apparently have to be VERY strong to be picked up by Media Center. After using one, I could receive every channel on the computer that my TV could receive. Second, when Media Center scanned, it only found about 12 channels, but I could go to the guide settings and go to "Edit Channels" and I could select a lot more channels than it originally said it found, and they (almost) all work.
I hope this somewhat helps others. It took me about 5 installs to get everything working and figure out what was wrong (I was VERY determined to get this working) so I hope I can save someone from that kind of pain. Feel free to post any other questions about my setup or installation - I'll try to check back here often.
WARNING: The (perhaps?) widely used Media Control plugin does not work for me now that I'm using the TV Pack.
Cacasodo @ Aug 12th 2008 4:56PM
Good stuff, Nova.
Last night, I spent a few hours experimenting with the new TV Pack, with the goal of getting digital cable from Comcast integrated into Media Center. As suggested, I reinstalled Vista (painfully slow). I then installed the TV Pack and associated hotfixes. That day, I had bought a Vista View Saber DA-1N1-I tuner card. It is PCI, to fit in my older Dell 400SC. I let Vista select the driver from the internet and I saw that it found the latest driver.
Setup in WMC was straightforward, similar to Ben's experience. I connected the card's NTSC connection to my comcast line. After the requisite asking of where Ilived, downloading of my area's TV guide and inspecting my tuners' connection, WMC got me to the point where I could select my area's cable provider. Since I live in NY Metro, there were about ten choices. I selected Comcast in Jersey City. So sure enough, channels 1-99 on Comcast appeared.
I was happy to see I had basic analog connectivity, but wondered where the digital channels went. At the time, I didn't realize that this was regular analog cable from Comcast. I went through the discovery process again, and this time I selected Comcast Digital as my provider. Well, this didn't work, because the cable was plugged into the analog, NTSC connection. In my haste, I hadn't realized that the card I bought is only good for ATSC, over the air HD and NTSC analog cable. It won't get me what I wanted, which was the ability to watch and record unencrypted, clear QAM channels via my Comcast connection. Duh.
Taking my idiocy in stride, I moved on to the ATSC output. When I connected my cable connection to ATSC, as expected, WMC didn't find any channels. I thought I might be able to use the cable coming from the back of the PC as an antenna, so I disconnected the opposite end of the cable from the PC (the splitter end), reran the automatic setup and I was nicely surprised to see that the WMC picked up the local over the air HD channel selection, about 14 channels in my case, directly across the river from Manhattan. Performance was a bit choppy, as my signal wasn't very good in my computer closet. I'm sure with a proper antenna, the signal would be great.
In both cases, analog cable and over the air, WMC picked the correct guide. The guide picked up all the shows, was really nice to navigate through and had lots of supplemental information. Very slick.
Today, I went back to the drawing board and picked up a Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600 . I'll let you know how this install goes tomorrow.
Long story short, though, if you are looking for a card that works for NTSC and ATSC over the air signals out of the box with this latest update for WMC, the Vista View Saber seems to fit the bill.
'sodo
bbrewy01 @ Aug 12th 2008 7:25PM
Here is the link on their support page:
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_hvr1600.html
Jonathan Carlyle @ Aug 13th 2008 3:36AM
I have installed this in the UK and it works perfectly!
Cacasodo @ Aug 13th 2008 11:29AM
Hi Jonathan,
I've reviewed the link to GreenButton that bbrewy posted (thanks bbrewy!). Upon further inspection, it looks like the 1600 will NOT support digital QAM channels from a cable provider in MediaCenter w/TVPack until the TVPack is officially released (announcement supposedly in September). Hauppauge apparently has a working driver for digital QAM in Media Center/TV Pack, but cannot release it due to contractual obligations with Microsoft:
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/permalink/281492/283951/ShowThread.aspx#283951
As of today 8/13, the card does support the following in Media Center:
- over the air (OTA), ATSC HD
- analog cable, NTSC, std definition
Question:
When you said it works for you, did you get digital QAM channels working from your cable provider, or just OTA and analog cable?
sodo
Drewmcg @ Aug 13th 2008 6:51PM
Does U.K. have QAM?
Drewmcg @ Aug 13th 2008 7:12PM
thanks for the info, Cacsodo.
*BUT*: If the information that Microsoft is only going to release TV Pack to the OEM channel (e.g., Dell and H.P.)--and that the rest have to wait until Windows 7--is accurate, then will Haupphauge really have MS's permission to release a MCE TV Pack QAM driver for their boards in September? Doesn't really follow . . . .
bbrewy01 @ Aug 13th 2008 8:32AM
I got this post on the 1600:
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/2/281492/ShowThread.aspx
Cacasodo @ Aug 13th 2008 9:51AM
Thanks for the responses guys. I will be setting up the card tonight and let you know how I do.
'sodo
Cacasodo @ Aug 14th 2008 10:27AM
Thought I'd update the list on my experience last night. Last Tuesday, VistaView released a QAM patch (a simple registry tweak) for MediaCenter with TVpack to allow the Saber DA-1N1-I to allow you to tune QAM channels on ATSC cable TV: http://www.vistaview.tv/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=31&Itemid=46
I downloaded the patch and rebooted. I split my cable line to go to both the analog NTSC and digital ATSC jacks on the back of the Vista View card. The positive: during the tuner setup, Media Center now sees both the analog tuner and a new digital cable tuner:
ViXS PureTV Analog TV Tuner
ViXS PureTV ATDC/DVBC Tuner
Continuing through the tuner setup, I can select my provider's (Comcast) channel selection and guide. Checking the source of the channels under Guide -> Edit Channels, I get a mix of the OTA HD channels (about 14 channels) on the Digital Cable connection, but the rest (70 or so) are coming through the analog tuner. The digital channels seem to break up a lot. I imagine using an HD antenna instead of the digital cable would help here, since the digital cable is only getting me those 14 channels. If I hook up only one cable to the ATSC input, I only get those 14 channels. I have had no luck seeing any channels I would normally see with the Comcast Motorola box above 99.
From the Guide -> Edit channels, I see that most of the available channels that are disabled have padlocks next to them and that the source of them is the digital tuner. I imagine the padlocks mean that they are encrypted.
Tonight allowed me to get a bit farther, but am perplexed as to why I'm not seeing any channels above 99. I am a bit of a newbie to this MediaCenter/cable integration stuff. It seems as if Comcast locks everything above 99..not sure right now. Looking at the clear qam guide for my zip code here https://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui?Cmd=LocationProgramsWeb&Country=US&Postcode=07302, I notice that the higher range (above 99) channels that I enjoy watching like Military/VH1 classic/Encore/etc are missing from the list. I guess they are not in clear QAM. Maybe I'm just out of luck?
So, a bit of progress, a bit of disappointment.
Drewmcg @ Aug 13th 2008 7:17PM
What amplifier do you recommend? Where did you get it (online? Radio Shack?)
Also, which ATI 650 drivers are you using (release no. and date)? And did you get them from ATI's website or Sapphire's or other's? Thanks.
Nova @ Aug 18th 2008 7:23PM
I haven't been home for a little while, and I'm still out of town, so I can't give you the numbers. I know that I got all the drivers off of ATI's (AMD's) website. As far as I know, those are the most recent available.
Awesoft @ Aug 18th 2008 10:23AM
Media Center TV Pack 2008 (x86 & x64 + patches):
http://rapidshare.com/files/138029257/Media_Center_TV_Pack_2008.rar.html
Nova @ Aug 18th 2008 7:26PM
Oh, and the amplifier I am using is just one from Best Buy (radio shack didn't have any when I went there). It's an RCA 4-Way Bi-Directional RF Amplifier (Model # DT140M). I don't know that it is the best out there, but it was all I could find quickly.
Awesoft @ Aug 24th 2008 10:01PM
By the way, how to save the channels?
Awesoft @ Aug 24th 2008 10:02PM
I mean, how to export the channels to other computer.
Monty @ Aug 25th 2008 1:07PM
Ben,
Its been several weeks you've had TV Pack. Any further thoughts? Any idea about Plugins working, most importantly DVRMS toolbox? In all the reading I've done in the various forums, something doesn't add up with what they have told us so far. Several comments such as "I wish we could say something so people wouldn't screw up their PCs" and I expect some other announcment at CEDIA. Could just be an update path for TV Pack for existing users or something bigger, but just a feeling I get.
My overall question is, how is the TV Pack three weeks later?
E71 @ Aug 25th 2008 1:37PM
Downloaded, Tried, Tested...
One major issue I'm having with it is when you open a video file that has a jpg of the same name as the thumbnail, it starts ignoring the jpg and sets a still from the video as the thumbnail.
Weak. Guess I'll be uninstalling. Guess I'll be moving back to Media Portal. It doesn't look quiet as nice but it's got a lot more features and hey, it's not like we spent hundreds of dollars on it like Vista Ultimate.