Hands-on with the Vista Media Center TV Pack

The Microsoft eHome team's favorite beta tester is at it again, and this time they went as far as to share the RTM build of the Vista Media Center TV Pack (aka Fiji) with us -- lucky for us the update isn't language specific. We're not sure why Microsoft is officially holding back the details of this update until CEDIA, but either way all the previous details we shared with you are true. Although there is no H.264 support or DirecTV tuner information to be found, the new stuff we did find we really liked. We really had no idea how great native QAM support could be and this heterogeneous tuner support is much cooler than it sounds.
Installation was anything but simple and it's definitely not designed for end users. First we had to re-install Vista on our Dell XPS 420 and all the updates and drivers that go along with it -- not to mention lose access to all of our old CableCARD tuner recordings and recordings settings. Then, before we launched Media Center for the first time we ran the 50MB update (named MediaCenterTVPack_x86), and a few other miscellaneous hot fixes. Next we installed our HD tuner card drivers and finally ran the Media Center setup.
No real surprises during the setup, but we were delighted to see that our CableCARD tuners installed without a hitch using the original product key. The first hint of something new came when we were prompted to configure the clear QAM tuners that were found. Now that clear QAM is supported, we can have six tuners (2 ATSC, 2 QAM and 2 CableCARD) with Premium and twelve with Ultimate, not to shabby. Setting up the clear QAM was a cinch; in fact, the scan found all of the channels we expected it to. But after the channel scan was done, and we started mucking around, that is where the real fun started. We were happy to see all the channel 1000s gone -- good riddance -- and in the place of them were all the sub channels (finally!) right where they belong. But even better, we were finally able to remap every channel 8 from each tuner as one channel. So no longer do we need to worry about running out of tuners because some channels are ATSC and others are CableCARD, and best of all you can set the tuner preference for each individual channel.
You should realize by now that the clear QAM and the heterogeneous tuner support are the biggest new features, but that isn't it. The other new feature is favorites. You can finally create multiple lists of favorites and easily chose which to use in the guide.
We have to say this is a pretty nice upgrade, but most definitely not everything we wish it was. Beyond the obvious missing H.264 and DirecTV support, there are plenty of things we wish were included like: 16x9 thumbnails; ability to list Recorded TV by date and put it them in a folder; and the ability to filter keyword recordings by HD -- you can however now set series recordings to HD only -- just to name a few. The update isn't all good either, as we still haven't figured out which plug-ins are compatible and so far we haven't found anything that can play the new WTV file format -- yes we tried VLC. But as soon as we find a way to play back the files on another computer, we'll be sure to check and see if the new more lenient CableCARD DRM is in effect.
If you made it this far, you have to be wondering where you can get the update, and we wish we knew. Microsoft is going to officially announce the update at CEDIA (in about a month), but at this point it is expected that the TV Pack will be a OEM only update. Then, to add insult to injury, the few OEMs that have acknowledged the existence of the update have said it will only be available on new purchases. Doh.
**Update, there are a few links in the comments that appear to be the update.
No real surprises during the setup, but we were delighted to see that our CableCARD tuners installed without a hitch using the original product key. The first hint of something new came when we were prompted to configure the clear QAM tuners that were found. Now that clear QAM is supported, we can have six tuners (2 ATSC, 2 QAM and 2 CableCARD) with Premium and twelve with Ultimate, not to shabby. Setting up the clear QAM was a cinch; in fact, the scan found all of the channels we expected it to. But after the channel scan was done, and we started mucking around, that is where the real fun started. We were happy to see all the channel 1000s gone -- good riddance -- and in the place of them were all the sub channels (finally!) right where they belong. But even better, we were finally able to remap every channel 8 from each tuner as one channel. So no longer do we need to worry about running out of tuners because some channels are ATSC and others are CableCARD, and best of all you can set the tuner preference for each individual channel.
You should realize by now that the clear QAM and the heterogeneous tuner support are the biggest new features, but that isn't it. The other new feature is favorites. You can finally create multiple lists of favorites and easily chose which to use in the guide.
We have to say this is a pretty nice upgrade, but most definitely not everything we wish it was. Beyond the obvious missing H.264 and DirecTV support, there are plenty of things we wish were included like: 16x9 thumbnails; ability to list Recorded TV by date and put it them in a folder; and the ability to filter keyword recordings by HD -- you can however now set series recordings to HD only -- just to name a few. The update isn't all good either, as we still haven't figured out which plug-ins are compatible and so far we haven't found anything that can play the new WTV file format -- yes we tried VLC. But as soon as we find a way to play back the files on another computer, we'll be sure to check and see if the new more lenient CableCARD DRM is in effect.
If you made it this far, you have to be wondering where you can get the update, and we wish we knew. Microsoft is going to officially announce the update at CEDIA (in about a month), but at this point it is expected that the TV Pack will be a OEM only update. Then, to add insult to injury, the few OEMs that have acknowledged the existence of the update have said it will only be available on new purchases. Doh.
**Update, there are a few links in the comments that appear to be the update.






















Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Alton Marschall @ Aug 6th 2008 4:47PM
Show Ben your thanks by going here!
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/281609.aspx
McPace @ Aug 6th 2008 12:31PM
SUB CHANNEL SUPPORT!! I CAN"T WAIT!! GIMMIE GIMMMIE
rock99rock @ Aug 6th 2008 1:56PM
I know you are excited, but seriously, you have an OEM Vista media center with a cablecard already integrated? arent there only like 2 or three of those? ( a Dell, and HP, and a couple 3rd party vendors)?
What is the CHEAPEST way to get a cablecard-enabled Home theater computer/DVR.
Thanks!
OneLove @ Aug 7th 2008 8:09PM
Sweet!!!!
DWAnderson @ Aug 7th 2008 11:40AM
S1 Digital implied in a response on TGB, that they would make this available to existing users who "lost" their reinstallation discs.
Jim Mallory @ Aug 6th 2008 12:57PM
Yep, being one of the early VMC Digital Cable adaptors, and seeing how well this seems to have worked one can help but feel royally screwed by Microsoft on this one.
You know, maybe if Comcast (or my next provider) offers a Network DVR option with the ability to access content from any STB (or better, tru2way equippped TV) and offers a good amount of storage...maybe I'll boot Microsoft for good.
Jeff @ Aug 6th 2008 1:11PM
This will be a HUGE disappointment if it is OEM only.
DoctaDJones @ Aug 6th 2008 1:56PM
I don't understand the OEM only crap. I paid for Vista just like OEM builders did, why is my version less important?
Maybe it will be an Ultimate Extra, oh wait those don't exist.
The FIOS settop boxes already have more features than my MediaCenter software... and that is very very saddening to me.
Ian @ Aug 6th 2008 2:47PM
Why OEM only? As I udnerstand it folks in Windows management frown on "out of band" releases not tied to a major Windows release (in this case Win7). They want everyone focused on Win7. However Japanese OEMs were demanding support for ISDB-T due to the pending analog shut-off there. Hence Fiji, the other features were gravy.
Now the MC team is focused on taking the Fiji bits and rolling them up to Win7 along with the stuff that didn't make the cut for Fiji.
Genius of the Crowd @ Aug 6th 2008 1:09PM
Microsoft really killed us on this one...I paid $2500 for A VM Machine when Cablecard first came out, was basically beta testing an unproven technology until they got the kinks out 6 months later..and now we can't even get an update that would actually give us something that should of been included in the first place unless I buy a whole new machine..WTF
Jim Mallory @ Aug 6th 2008 1:58PM
And I am sure people are wondering in Redmond why people are moving to Macs in large numbers.
I am in the same boat as you but I have had my VM machine for over 12 months when nothing worked right. I hear we might get a sniff when Windows 7 ships...which means to get this functionality we have to put up with a extremely buggy OS or wait another 12 months for SP1.
srw985 @ Aug 6th 2008 2:02PM
If you dont like it, bittorrent it! ;)
Joe Dombrowski @ Aug 6th 2008 5:29PM
So your Mac can act as a DVR for ATSC, QAM, analog and OCUR based TV signals? Wow!
Let's keep on topic now, thanks.
FSUGrad1999 @ Aug 6th 2008 2:38PM
Looks good. Thanks Ben. Even though you are confirming what most of us already knew, it is still wonderful to see it in action.
Hopefully M$ will make this update available to current Vista users, and if they don't, they'll allow the OEMs (at the very least) to provide it to us.
If this turns out to be something we can only obtain with the purchase of a new OEM machine, things are going to get (even more) nasty over at TGB. I think users like me need to be prepared for that though.... its a tough pill to swallow (especially since I just got my new Velocity Micro CableCard PC last thursday)... But its par for the course when it comes to how Microsoft does business... and we shouldn't be surprised one bit.
Jon @ Aug 6th 2008 1:21PM
Well in the Dell forums they (Dell) refuse to answer any questions about it
The Fuzz 53 @ Aug 6th 2008 1:36PM
Here's another question. How do you even get updates from Dell? Their website is horrible and doesn't just show you updates that apply for your PC, and the update program (has a water ripple icon) that comes up once a month that tells me to look for updates never finds anything.
shawnmos @ Aug 6th 2008 1:32PM
How do I get this?????
Max @ Aug 6th 2008 1:40PM
Too many arrows
Anthony @ Aug 6th 2008 1:44PM
Vista Media Center was so bad that I bought a Tivo. The only real saving grace of this was that I got the HP VMC box with a 30% off deal, and it's not a bad machine otherwise, except for the fact that it's Vista. That said, I was still livid when dropping another $500 on the Tivo with the stupid subscription.
Anthony Castanza @ Aug 6th 2008 2:17PM
Well, unless EngadgetHD signed a NDA with Microsoft, they *could* leak it to us all right now.
Ordeith @ Aug 6th 2008 2:03PM
Why would this require a full reinstall of Vista?
It appears you are still patching after the fact, why can't an existing media center installation be patched?
aaron @ Aug 6th 2008 2:08PM
Thats what Id like to know as well.... seems like a very very stupid way to do an update. We all know the people who are going to be wanting/using this update now are existing users of media center.... not new users.
Ordeith @ Aug 6th 2008 2:05PM
MS has more of a problem with getting people off of XP than they do with people buing Macs.
Apple isn't growing the computer division fast enough to be a threat.
ashokcsn @ Aug 6th 2008 2:22PM
I guess the problem is not with MS. It is the cable operators that mandate that only "approved" PCs can sell with cablecard support.
Zorn @ Aug 6th 2008 2:09PM
Ugh, I really love Vista Media Center as a recording device, but it's almost like Microsoft wants it to fail. They made the huge mistake of only letting CABLECARD support be through new purchased PCs instead of custom built, and now this update is going to be OEM only? It's absolutely insulting and makes me think of switching to some other solution every day because Microsoft just doesn't care about its MC customers.
Adam @ Aug 6th 2008 2:23PM
As I understand it, it was CableCard that chose to sell their readers only to select OEMs and not to DIY-ers.
Remember, Microsoft is a huge company with deep pockets, and everyone wants their share... So they have to step lightly to avoid lawsuits, and play by whatever rules are set before them. Hell, some company sued them (and a bunch of others) for music piracy because they were NOT using this company's particular DRM product and thus the media files couldn't possibly be secure enough.
So, whatever content restrictions Microsoft sends your way, don't blame them; it likely was not their decision to make.
ashokcsn @ Aug 6th 2008 2:25PM
I guess the problem is not with MS. It is the cable operators that mandate that only "approved" PCs can sell with cablecard support.
Looks like i replied to wrong thread.
Pliablemoose @ Aug 6th 2008 2:16PM
If the OEM release policy remains, I'm done with Micro$oft.
Daniel Hughes @ Aug 6th 2008 2:14PM
i have this, im a beta tester
if you want it let me know and ill upload it sumwhere
Peter F @ Aug 6th 2008 2:50PM
Yes
andrew oh @ Aug 6th 2008 3:00PM
i'd like to give this a try, give me an email if you can provide. would like to test this out on my lcd monitor that has built in atsc tuner. thanks in advanced. aohus@hotmail.com
john @ Sep 6th 2008 9:41PM
Have tried many QAM products with little results. Please let me know where I can get this to try.
Alton @ Aug 6th 2008 2:42PM
Funny how Ben has become the Media Center advocate all of a sudden. I bet that Australian guy is jealous...
Seriously Ben thanks for getting so much air time for Media Center. I was shocked after getting VMC how small the community really is. You have been a very nice addition to the community.
Ian @ Aug 6th 2008 2:42PM
Is DELL the only significant OEM making CableCard enabled PCs? Can someone show me the range?
Thanks
David S @ Aug 6th 2008 3:03PM
The other "big" OEM CableCard system is HP.
Otherwise you'll have to deal with smaller shops like Velocity Micro and Nievius.
andrew oh @ Aug 6th 2008 2:41PM
Would the new pack be able to configure built-in QAM tuners such as the T240HD from Samsung? Or is this only for built-in PC tuner cards. Thanks.
rcme @ Aug 6th 2008 2:58PM
Hmm.... This just screams WTF!
Reinstall the operating system to install the TV Pack update? Say what? None of new features listed should warrant an OS reinstall. Is this just to justify the OEM only stance?
Also, what's up with the new file format, WTV to replace DVR-MS? From the comments, there doesn't appear to be any backward compatibility for the DVR-MS format. What about all those DVR-MS recordings that people have archived (eg. I have dozens of DVR-MS format recorded TV shows on my WHS)? The really big questions is, What was wrong with the DVR-MS format to begin with? All along Microsoft has stated that the DVR-MS format was fine, now they "slip in" this new file format to replace DVR-MS?
So the "new" features listed here are:
- Clear QAM support
Great, but from what I have read, this code already existed in the VMC DCT version, it just needed to be enabled for non DCT use.
- ATSC subchannels
This is a great new feature, which would be welcomed by both DCT and non-DCT users.
- Heterogeneous tuner support
This already exists. I have 2 NTSC and 2 ATSC tuners working just fine in my VMC. Granted, adding Clear QAM tuners as a 3rd tuner type would likely require some tuner setup and Guide tweaks.
- Guide updates
- Favorites
- Ability to set series recordings to HD only
These are nice new features/updates, but did it really take a year+ to code these up?
While these new features are great additions to VMC, I guess I am less excited than Ben, given all the hype and speculation over the past year or so. It just doesn't seem like these features are worthy of a year+ development effort.
With the release of the TV Pack (given that it would only be available for VMC DCT), it would almost seem that Microsoft is widening the gap, instead of narrowing the gap, between the VMC "non-DCT" and VMC "DCT" versions.
Ben @ Aug 6th 2008 3:02PM
I can still play DVR-MS files, but not the ones I recorded with the CableCARD since they have DRM.
As for why the change, I belive the DVR-MS container couldn't handle h.264, and wtv can, just not this version. But many expect the next update to support h.264 and hence DirecTV, just like the earlier builds of Fiji did.
Brad @ Aug 6th 2008 4:18PM
To me, the big thing is heterogenous tuner support WITH the ability to rename channel numbers into something logical.
Right now, ATSC channels need to be numbered in the 1000's. If you use a HDHomerun for QAM, those channels have to be in the 1800's. If you enable CableCard, you can't have QAM or NTSC. If you use QAM, you can't use ATSC. FM radio isn't available if you use the tuner card it's contained on for ATSC.
From what I see, TV Pack fixes all of this. Not only that, but I noticed in those screenshots that ATSC subchannels were automatically picked up during the channel scan. Maybe they actually have guide data to go along with them?
MCEJunkie @ Aug 6th 2008 3:07PM
Speaking of leaks:
http://www.mediafire.com/?kkthfq1xnaa
Ben @ Aug 6th 2008 3:12PM
The file size looks right and the KB number is right, not sure about the rest.
xemumanic @ Aug 6th 2008 5:32PM
I'm sure this goes for many of us here........
THANK YOU!
mediacenterhope @ Aug 6th 2008 3:08PM
So, the cable companies and content owners are still running the show.
I continue to pay $20 per month for HD channels and an HDDVR from the cable company. As an original ReplayTV customer I can attest to the pitiful features and performance of the cable company HDDVRs (I use both Comcast and Brighthouse in different locations). Shall I also scream about the inability to add to recording capacity when gigabyte drives sell at retail for $100? The only competition now is an HD Tivo where the monthly fees are about the same as the cable box after "renting" the required Cable Cards... plus the cost of the Tivo box which will shortly be obsolete.
Why is there no competition in this space? Why are end users going to eventually have to pay as much as a 1,000 dollars for a computer and Cable Card interface plus monthly Cable Card rental fees for a true HD Media Center DVR with useful features and a quality interface?
Will someone wake up and smell the money waiting for companies who innovate in this space? The cable companies and content owners only seem interested in controlling the consumer. They would do better for themselves in the long run by serving the consumer.
domlam28 @ Aug 6th 2008 4:48PM
Someone's gonna Ted Kaczynski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kaczynski) the cable companies and MPAA.
And then I'm gonna say, "can't blame em. They got what they deserved."
Rick @ Aug 7th 2008 9:28AM
I too have/had ReplayTV and thought very highly of it. I wish they had done an HD version and continued to innovate. I had great hopes for it when D&M Holdings bought them now i'm hoping DirecTV will use their power and do something great with it.
Compared to the many features and functions that Replay offered, Tivo is so retarded yet its either that or the cable companies DVR (which is soooo bad). Which is why i was hoping that this Media Center thing would pan out. I desperately need to have recordings store on one box with 4-6 Tru2Way cable cards so i can record 4-6 shows at the same time and then stream the shows to any room in the house (like Replay) as opposed to transferring the show like Tivo does (you would think they would install Gigabit cards if this is the dumb model they chose to follow).
I was also hoping for DirecTV support so i could have both cable and Satellite record to the same box. What has me so baffled is we are the USA , supposedly the greatest technological force on the planet but we can't even build something this simple.
I think they figure it is more profitable for them if they keep doing stuff like this as we then have to constantly pay more and more for upgrades and new machines all together.
This is a start up opportunity waiting to be taken advantage off. Perhaps someone could build a box that had the features of Replay, file transfer of files like Tivo and all the benefits of MCE including web browsing and such. Why can't shows record to a DVR in an iPod friendly format, so all you have to do is transfer the files? I tried taking a couple seasons of some shows with me on vacation and it took 2 weeks (24hrs a day) to convert them even using the turbo coprocessor from Elgato.
David S @ Aug 6th 2008 3:06PM
Does the TV Pack include the fix for DRMless recordings for non-flagged shows in CableCard? After installing TV Pack, say if I record a PBS show that is not flagged with CableCard, will the show have the same permissions as a show recorded in ClearQAM and ATSC?
alanwestenbroek @ Aug 6th 2008 3:10PM
This review really does a disservice to the TV pack, because it concentrates on the couple of small-but-important things added for the US market and ignores completely the rest of the world.
The DVB markets got a HUGE upgrade. For the first time, MC is actually usable. We get our guide over the air, we get subtitles, we get multiple languages, and we get support for both DVB satellite and DVB cable, with CAM. As disappointed as I have been in MC up till now, I'm very happy with what's come out in the TV pack. Japan got similar support for ISDB-T. So yeah, QAM and etc. are nice, but this is the release that makes MC a significant player in the whole world, not just one country.
Beta testers are still bound by the NDA and thus can't talk about what isn't there, nor why, nor the reason behind the OEM-only release. But a reasonable person shouldn't have too much trouble putting the new TV support that IS there together with the fast-approaching CEDIA show date and coming up with an educated guess. And then prepare to wait a bit longer for whatever else is on their wish list.
The HD stuff is hard. Remember the Play TV is nearly a year late now because Sony couldn't get their h.264 stuff to work right.
Alton Marschall @ Aug 6th 2008 3:11PM
I am guessing Vista Extenders will be updated to play wtv files? Did that come up?
Ben @ Aug 6th 2008 3:12PM
The extenders work fine without an update.
gsh @ Aug 6th 2008 3:19PM
"MCEJunkie @ Aug 6th 2008 3:07PM
Speaking of leaks:
http://www.mediafire.com/?kkthfq1xnaa"
This is 43 megs, obviousley this is not a reinstall of Vista. Has anybody tried this?