CBHD, née
CH-DVD -- the Chinese version of the now-deceased HD DVD format -- is in production, gearing up for a fourth quarter launch. DigiTimes cites reports from
enorth.com.cn that Shanghai United Optical Disc has laid out the first production line, although Taiwanese disc makers (already burned by HD DVD) aren't as confident it can take on Blu-ray, even with considerably lower royalty fees and hardware costs for disc replicators. Coming alongside news that
Chinese-built Blu-ray players based on
increasingly affordable hardware is on the way, plus a decided lack of studio support, it's not hard to see how this one will turn out (
again.) Not to underrate China's national pride, but unless it can gain an unexpected foothold among DVD pirates, CBHD will probably be on the high definition scrap heap alongside HD DVD,
EVD and the
rest before long.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Kumar @ Jul 28th 2008 10:06AM
Before everyone piles on to Nfinity...again, think of this in another perspective.
A format that exists only in China...could that be a workaround to international copyright rules?
Kumar @ Jul 28th 2008 10:20AM
I guess I should've put a few more words in there...not copyright for the format, but for the actual movies. I think one of the ways the US put the squeeze on China and other countries for piracy was that it could be exported to the us. With hd dvd dead, could they tell u.s. studios to pound sand?
I'm pragmatically still waiting for another closeout BH200 sale that will sell both dead formats when movies go the way of songs.....online.
benny boy @ Jul 28th 2008 1:41PM
"The next thing is digital downloads. Everyone agrees, the only thing is how fast it will spread.. I would say by end of next year it should get massive traction and most of the content will be available in HD too."
I don't think so. Most people actually don't agree.
The broadband infrastructure in the UK is already very slow due to people downloading shows and movies off of the BBC iPlayer etc. and without upgrading the entire country's broadband, it will stay this way
And I don't think that will be happening in the next few years. This is the same story in soo many other countries as well. So, everyone who is saying that physical media will be replaced within the next 10 years is sadly mistaken.
Mark @ Jul 29th 2008 5:14AM
@Nfinity, the format is shares a lot of tech with HD DVD but it is not the same. Physically it is close except for modulation. But it uses different audio / video codecs, crypto / DRM, and interactive menus. No HD DVD player will ever play a CBHD disk and it seems unlikely to me that any CBHD player would bother to play HD DVD disks unless it implements the full HD DVD software stack. And that seems unlikely when HD DVD is dead and the exercise was to reduce foreign patents. If combo players do appear they will be CBHD / BD players, not HD DVD players.
JDS @ Jul 28th 2008 10:21AM
nfinity
wait there's more bad news:
http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20080727PD200.html
China to launch CBHD high-definition disc format but Taiwan makers not optimistic about its prospects
Jimmy Hsu, Taipei; Adam Hwang, DIGITIMES [Monday 28 July 2008]
Shanghai United Optical Disc has completed the establishment of its first production line for CBHD (China Blue High-definition Disc), China's self-developed high-definition optical disc format, and will start volume production in the fourth quarter of 2008 for the China market initially, according to Chinese-language online media outlet enorth.com.cn. However, Taiwan-based drive makers generally believe CBHD will find it difficult to compete with Blu-ray Disc (BD) in the China market, according to industry sources.
CBHD was, until recently, know as CH DVD (China high definition DVD), enorth.com.cn noted.
A production line for DVD discs can be refitted to manufacture CBHD discs at a cost of US$800,000, much lower than the US$3 million needed to set up a BD disc production line, enorth.com.cn pointed out.
Royalty fees to produce licensed CBHD players will be about 55 yuan (US$8.10), much lower than BD licensing rates, the industry sources in Taiwan indicated. But members of the BD Association have reduced retail prices for their entry-level BD players in the North American market to about US$299 and prices may drop further meaning CBHD players will face challenging price competition when they are launched in the China market, the sources analyzed. In addition, CBHD has not won support from leading movie studios in Hollywood and this is expected to render the format at a significant disadvantage in competition with BD, the sources pointed out.
truegamer @ Jul 28th 2008 10:24AM
@nfinity
I thought that disc based technology is dead, you said digital download rules and all the companies are moving away from disc based in tons of your post, so i guess CH DVD is killed by digital downloads before it even comes out, going by your post.
DEEZNUTZ @ Jul 28th 2008 10:45AM
Wow, Nfinity will grab on to anything just to imagine BD's demise. And yet he owns +100 BD movies, but calls them "criminal" in all his posts. That should give you a glimpse into the distorted mind that is Nfinity.
Says a lot about your integrity Nfinity... or lack thereof. You, by definition are a large supporter of BD based on your purchasing habits. I can bet you continue to buy BD. Either you don't believe the things you write and just get off on starting flame wars, or you're crazy.
PS Please change back to your signature avatar. It's just not you when you're not using it.
DEEZNUTZ @ Jul 28th 2008 12:34PM
NFINITY
BTW, renting a BD now and then is STILL supporting the format as a whole. Just admit it, you have no integrity behind your words, you are simply looking to flame up the comments with your non-sensical rhetoric any chance you get.
Guess folks should learn not to take you seriously anymore and not get all bent out of shape about the things you write either. I'll just continue to enjoy the irony and humor in all of your posts.
truegamer @ Jul 28th 2008 11:06AM
@nfinity
Since you are the expert/insider of all HD Media. What service to you recommend on Digital downloads today so I can watch all my movies at 1080p, should I get rid of my large HD DVD and Blu Ray collection now? so I can get into digital download today since in a couple of months it will be over for disc based technology like you said since you are the expert/insider.
I am trying to understand you even more
You say that the Blu-Ray producing studio's are greedy, so are we getting new versions of the studio that are kind and not greedy to produce there movies on Digital download? BD CE companies are the main CE companies in the World, when they make the digital download box's etc they will be more gentle and kind to us since they are making digital download hardware or would Toshiba be the only company to make the hard ware for the digital downloads and give them to us for free since they are not greedy like the BD companies.
Some of your post with great insider info
BD 25g disc suck and the quality is not good, however a digital download at 1 to 4G is great and the quality is better than 25G disc.
Spiza @ Jul 28th 2008 11:12AM
Just tell us when you get your panties out of a bunch from HD DVD dieing.
Rob @ Jul 28th 2008 11:17AM
Nfinity, although I admire your blind devotion for HD-DVD and your hatred for Blu-ray, I don't see how China could dictate the world's HD format of choice. First and last, China is the land of piracy. So, studios are not going to go out of their way to release their content in a country known worldwide for being counterfeit land. I've been to Beijing and those street sellers, and little markets wedged between buildings, are all over the place. The street sellers make you feel like a celebrity so you'd buy their clearly pirated stuff. Pick your software, music, movie, or clothes manufacturer and you'd find easily out in the streets.
Again, China will not dictate the world's disc format. Also, did I mention the high level of poverty in China??? I'm sure destroying Blu-ray is not high on their agenda.
JimC @ Jul 28th 2008 11:40AM
No Nfinity, I could care less because I know no other disc format will be considered at this point. The industry cannot afford another disc format war anytime soon, so your glee overe this announcement just shows how dishonest you truly are.
This is a blog and you don't have the right to post whatever you want. The owners and operators of this blog can determine who is or is not allowed. You don't have any right to post comments, you have the priveladge and when you realize that perhaps your commentary might be a little less dishonest.
You have been completely dishonest in your commentary since HDDVD died as your glee over this chinese flavor of HDDVD *might* have a even smaller market than blu-ray yet you favor it over blu-ray. You call us fanboys yet you delude yourself into thinking that every major studio and indies which have now embraced and committed to blu-ray might drop it in favor of something HDDVD related? You obviously feel movie studios and retailers are being oppressed by the evil blu-ray and are wating, just waiting for a savior...you're either pathetically foolish or willfully dishonest or possibly both, you decide....
Jimmy @ Jul 28th 2008 11:45AM
JimC,
Actually Nfinity reminds me a Young Earth Creationist.
Similarities:
spew garbage out of both sides of their mouths: check
ignore what is happening in the real world: check
twists science and facts to support their distorted view of the world: check
But, the reason that Nfinity is still allowed to post here is that people keep responding to him. Engadget knows that as long as they let him troll he will bring in the comments. Comments equal content for Engadget and content is king so Nfinity is tolerated. However, lately I have begun to think that Nfinity is possibly paid by Engadget.
Either of the above reasons would mean that Nfinity is not going anywhere. So, the only way for us to get rid of him is to start a campaign against replying to any thread he posts in. What is really tough about that is that he posts in every blu-ray story.
tlarkin79 @ Jul 28th 2008 11:48AM
All I care about is why the cost of a Blu-Ray movie can often be 2x more than a regular DVD? You aren't shooting 2 different movies, it's all taken from the same source, so the only justification for price is licensing and paying to see more of the pixels that were originally recorded. The fact is Blu-Ray doesn't have to lower the cost of their discs because consumer choice was never a factor in this recent format war. It was decided by the manufacturers getting exclusive deals with movie studios. You can be a fanboy of any format you want, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter because consumer choice isn't part of the deciding factor.
Leonardo DiCrapio @ Jul 28th 2008 12:03PM
Rob, I think you're wrong. I think the poor farmers with no telephone service (or internet) in China are going to be buying 46" LCD HDTV's and CBHD players. After all, why wouldn't they be when they can't get any high-definition downloads since they have no telecommunications whatsoever to their huts. Oh wait, they might not have electricity in their huts either. Or indoor plumbing (they still have outhouses).
JimC @ Jul 28th 2008 12:07PM
Actually Jimmy, I'm a young Earth Creationist (with a science degree from a secular university so please no assumptions) and I have seen more dishonest comments about that subject in my day as it relates to science. But that is off topic and let's not go there in this blog, please...
truegamer @ Jul 28th 2008 12:09PM
@nfinity
Everyone can agree that DRM sucks and I think that everyone has the right to make a back up copy of any music, movie etc and put there copy in a safe place. However you a promoting Pirating of movies, I think you have to right to make backup copies of your movies, however you sold all your movies, so you do not have the originals any more. Plus you should have donated your movies and not sold them since you don't want to have a copy of a movie and do not own the original, I don't want you do be like the greedy BD companies.
Nfinity is there a special version of digital download that will let your own your movies and copy them to your NAS in full 1080P when they new movies come out that you will like? ... Tell us this great service.
You are the same like the fanboy's you call out on this site, you are a hypocrite just like any crazy HD or Blu Fanboy, so stop trying to make yourself look good in your post, give two side to a story instead of cherry picking your points.
MAK1981 @ Jul 28th 2008 12:17PM
@JDS... you're worse than Nfinity. And, if everyone just ignored his posts, you wouldn't have this problem. But nope, JDS and others spend hours of their day denouncing Nfinity. What purpose, what resolve? I just don't get it. It's just more sh!t I have to scroll through to read legitimate posts instead of 3rd grade namecalling.
imonit @ Jul 28th 2008 12:19PM
@JDS - I hear ya, I really do. Any frequenter of EngadgetHd knows Nfinity's anti-Blu rants have been going on for forever. Blu-ray was a kiddie format destined for obliteration by mighty Red, blah blah blah - I get it. But, I'm just saying, there's really no reason to get pulled into the name-calling just b/c he annoys you. That's part of the reason why he no longer has any credibility here. It has nothing to do with the demise of HD DVD, it's b/c of his reaction after it failed. There are no longer 4-paragraph posts about why HD DVD is the only format that can go mainstream successfully, rather, with nothing else to grab on to, he grabs at ANYTHING that isn't Blu.
As far as why he hasn't been banned, come on now. I know everyone has noticed that most articles have under 10 comments but when there is a Blu-Ray-related article, 50+ is the rule not the exception. Engadget would be crazy to ban this guy, especially with dozens of people logging on to flame him.
Back on topic, though. I know everyone wanted one format in order for that format to take off and end consumer confusion. Though, Blu-Ray still has an uphill battle in order to be the dominant format (over DVD). In the meantime, I wish there was something to push the BDA along. Meaning, I miss the Blu-Ray BOGOs and the 5-free movies with player purchases. It never ceases to amaze me how Engadget's writers blast any Blu-Ray competition even before it hits the market (read Super upconversion, DVD 2.0, etc). Truth is, there are plenty of people out there who do not want to rid themselves of the thousands of DVDs they've collected over the years. Even the strongest of Blu supporters are hesitant to replace their current DVDs. As long as there is a premium on BDs, DVD will remain a viable option. The goal should be to drive costs down closer to DVD, thus making the transition a no-brainer. I just don't see this happening fast enough w/o competition driving Blu to do so. So, my question is - why is everyone so upset if Toshiba (a for-profit business) wants to capitalize on their DVD royalties by improving the performance of DVD and prolonging it's reign as the dominant format? Why is everyone upset if China wants to explore a cheaper alternative to HD by circumventing the large start-up costs and licensing fees? I buy/rent BDs b/c I want the highest quality possible from my favorite movies. But if there was a cheaper option, I bleed green ($$$), not Blu. I say bring on the options and let them market gravitate to the option that makes the most sense to most.
imonit @ Jul 28th 2008 12:23PM
Btw - they the hell does engadgethd load 'blank' sometimes in firefox? Anybody else have this problem? I hate clicking on that damn IE icon just to post my nonsense.
kcmurphy88 @ Jul 28th 2008 12:24PM
If the Chinese government wants it, it will happen. All they need to do is tell the studios that the only HD disk format acceptable for sale in China is CH-DVD. If it's not in that format, "who knows how the people will get it?"
Not that blu-ray has anything to fear, as such discs and players would be exclusive to China and in Chinese.
Truth Teller @ Jul 28th 2008 12:29PM
I think it all depends on what scale of disaster the BDA see themselves in.
If the bottom is falling out of their financial world then expect to see (rather than merely hear reports of) Chinese manufacturers being licenced at rates that will allow true super cheapo Blu-ray exports to the 'west' very soon.
But there's precious little sign of that (yet).
...... despite all the regular BS claims about imminent sub $200....$150.....$100 (?! LMAO) players.
When prices drop to under £100/$200 we may see some action but even there you're really looking for the £50/$100 barrier to be broken for any chance of some serious appeal.
This is of course hugely compounded by the implications of the looming recession.
The truth that none of the Blu-ray game console fans can bear to hear is that at their current prices very very few in the mass-market are in the least bit interested in high def from Blu-ray.
.....and where are this weeks deeply unimpressive Neilsons, hmmmmm?
imonit @ Jul 28th 2008 12:36PM
"Not that blu-ray has anything to fear, as such discs and players would be exclusive to China and in Chinese."
What does that mean? The players will be in Chinese? The movies will be redubbed in Chinese? People can talk about the poverty in China and say it's 'exclusive' to China but there are 1.3 billion people in that country and they are home to one of the world's fastest growing economies. There is enough out there for someone to grab a solid piece of market share. Unfortunately for CBHD, BD is in the best position to do so for reasons outlined in the article.
gamedude420 @ Jul 28th 2008 12:55PM
too bad ths ch-dvd is already dead in the water. 1st off its lower quality than blu ray. 2nd the chinese market doesnt really like domestic media formats. everyone has failed.
3rd majority of the chinese are pirates, so they will buy blu ray players. the cheap chinese players will be out before these. also 4th is content bluray will have more content.
Me @ Jul 28th 2008 1:58PM
Hillarious how pathetic Nifinity sounds.. It's clear this is a non-starter, everyone except him thinks so....
Lets not forget that HD DVD got cracked, it's previous downfall, and it's future downfall...
joe @ Jul 28th 2008 3:01PM
Nfinity-
"No..the point is that they don't need to be super greedy with downloads. They have so little overhead that it's free money for them."
Studios are fininding out this is really not true. The overhead costs for DRM'd digital transmission content are getting to be expansive.
MS is discovering this with their XBL service. They have on the order of 2k video games on the service. There is no way to save a copy of a game so they must provide a way for customers to download a copy at will or refund their money in some way as long as that customer owns their xbox. This has become a big issue for them as it became obvious some games just weren't selling. They are now forced into giving refunds or always keeping that file available.
Movie services work the same way for digital purchases. With music you could burn a CD and that was considered legal. In the US it is NOT legal to burn a DVD ,or BD, of copyrighted content. So for those files that just aren't popular server space needs to be reserved to keep them up. As the DRM charges those files must be updated also. If the services changes to a new box then those files must be updated.
Unlike bit torrent where files are distributed across many computers Video on demand companies mus pay to up keep their own services making overhead deceptively low in the beginning but with no end to the eventual cost. Considering these movies are being 'sold' as opposed to leased through a service these costs as long as the consumer owns the device.
It's pretty obvious that people will not be able to own a digital load in the future. You will only have a lease on the content for as long as the company feels like keeping drm working or as long as you pay into a service.
Digital downloads are a dead end. Spinning media has fixed costs and no overhead once it leaves the store. Spinning media costs more to in the beginning but, is a far simpler cost structure. Companies will either abandon drm or abandon digital downloads as they exist now.
imonit @ Jul 28th 2008 3:09PM
@XDragon - "I've heard you people complain about movie costs and its BS as I've found every Blu-Ray movie I want from $20-30"
So you've found Blu-Rays at MSRP? I don't think $30 is considered a deal. THAT is what people are complaining about. Does Amazon even have BDs @$30?
squiggleslash @ Jul 28th 2008 3:13PM
Everything I've read about this format suggests that the physical disc is the only technology they've kept. They're using different codecs, eschewing HDi, and even the DRM scheme is different. CH DVDs (CBHDs, whatever) aren't going to play in HD DVD players, and they will not have any of HD DVD's advantages.
It's actually worse than HD VMD in many ways - at least the latter can be implemented using cheap red lasers.
I'm an HD DVD partisan, partisan for the right reason: it's a good format, it was, disc capacity aside, better in every way than Blu-ray and DVD, it was built with an eye to the future, and it achieved the job it was supposed to, delivering high quality transfers to people's homes. Blu-ray isn't capable, thanks to BD+, the absence of up-to-date players, and lack of vision when it comes to recognizing the online future, of being a successful format. HD DVD was, before Hollywood killed it.
But I'm not going to cheer on this development. My favored format is dead. For the next few years we can expect the stillborn BD format to "compete" with a handful of unintegrated online offerings of varying quality until the latter gets standardized and an open platform develops. It's sad, but that's what we have today, rather than a smooth transition from DVD, via HD DVD, to the online future. CH DVD does not give me what HD DVD promised. It's no better than Blu-ray. In fact, given it doesn't even have the capacity advantage, it's worse.
HD DVD is dead. CH DVD is _NOT_ HD DVD. None of the things that made HD DVD truly great are in CH DVD. About the only positive thing you can say about it, in comparison to Blu-ray, is that at least it doesn't have sodding BD+!
Jimmy @ Jul 28th 2008 3:44PM
Please explain to me the following statement: "Blu-ray isn't capable, thanks to BD+". What does BD+ have to do with Blu-ray's capabilities?
JimC @ Jul 28th 2008 4:15PM
Just curious, what was the first HDDVD player to output true 1080p? How much did it cost? When was it first available?
squiggleslash @ Jul 28th 2008 4:28PM
Jim: I didn't write "Blu-ray isn't capable, thanks to BD+", I wrote "{...}[HD DVD] achieved the job it was supposed to, delivering high quality transfers to people's homes. Blu-ray isn't capable, thanks to BD+, the absence of up-to-date players, and lack of vision when it comes to recognizing the online future, of being a successful format."
BD+ makes it impossible to build a Blu-ray player capable of playing every Blu-ray title. With this, and the issues with the lack of standardization support and poor scalability for the online future, the Blu-ray standard is therefore not capable of doing the job it's supposed to do, delivering high quality transfers to people's homes.
squiggleslash @ Jul 28th 2008 4:30PM
JimC: I'll take irrelevant trivia for 500 please Bob.
(I'd imagine it was the Toshiba HD A30, but I'm not entirely sure. Nor do I care or see the relevance.)
Jimmy @ Jul 28th 2008 7:02PM
Your answer, like your actual comment, is just so much FUD.
"BD+ makes it impossible to build a Blu-ray player capable of playing every Blu-ray title."
Where did you drag this from. BD+ has been part of the standard since well before the first players were released. On top of that the only players that could not play discs have ALL since been fixed thanks to firmware updates. I might add that more than a dozen HD DVD discs and players had a similar problem. These were software problems in the firmware and not something wrong with the blu-ray standard or BD+.
"... and the issues with the lack of standardization support ..."
Are you arguing that new feature profiles are a bad thing or that the BDA does not provide support for their standard? An evolving standard is very common in consumer electronics; and, DVD itself has had dozens of changes to its standard. A modern DVD player will do dozens of things that my 12 year old Toshiba will not.
"... and poor scalability for the online future ..."
This part really makes no sense to me. All BD-Live (2.0) machines must have ethernet support and 1GB of local storage. In what way is this limiting scalability?
I am sorry, but your comment and response are both inaccurate.
squiggleslash @ Jul 29th 2008 8:44AM
Jimmy - erm, no, it's not FUD.
BD+ is a system that's impossible to implement properly. It's effectively a recreation, using modern standards such as Java, of the "copy prevention" systems used by games for home computers such as the Commodore 64 and Sinclair Spectrum in the 1980s that used timing loops and peeks of "magic" locations to try to ensure the system the program was running on was unmodified.
It's essentially tried, tested, and failed. The only real effect such systems had was to prevent programs from running at all on many legitimate machines. And this was in an era when one manufacturer made all the computers of a particular type (eg. Commodore made all the Commodore 64s.) - BD+ is supposed to work in an environment in which there are hundreds of different model of Blu-ray player.
Any BD+ encumbered Blu-ray disc will fail in a non-zero percentage of Blu-ray players. The only way for a legitimate owner to guarantee they can play every Blu-ray disc they own will be to download pirated copies from the Internet - because, ironically, BD+ was cracked as soon as the studios made their choice and HD DVD was withdrawn.
As far as the lack of standardization support, I suggest you respond to the comment I made rather than pretending my complaint was that the BDA isn't setting standards.
It is. The manufacturers are not supporting them. Worse still, the Blu-ray fanboi contingent doesn't see a problem with that. The Pioneer BDP-51FD, for example, is a modern, just released, BD player that is incapable of ever supporting Profile 2.0, a standard that's existed for 9 months and is the equivalent of standards that every single HD DVD player has supported since day 1. When it came out, rather than hammer Pioneer for the fact they produced a device that's obsolete before it even leaves the factory, the fanboi contingent of the Blu-ray supporters actually praised Pioneer for the device, and even, in some cases, came up with justifications for Pioneer coming up with an obsolete device. Some claimed, for instance, that somehow by doing this Pioneer was preventing the studios from hacking into their players and making them not work. This isn't what Profile 2.0 does, and there's nothing to stop you from unplugging the thing from the wall anyway.
The BDA produces standards that the Blu-ray manufacturers seem to consider unnecessary, except for the more moronic standards like BD+. If I were a BD disc maker, I'd be pushing for the removal of /that/ particular "feature", not standards designed to prevent my system from being irrelevant.
BD has poor scalability for the online future. Saying it doesn't because BD Live, which, remember, Blu-ray fans are only in favour of when comparing specs to HD DVD, but against if their own player doesn't have it(! WTF?), uses the Internet completely misses the point.
Let me put it this way: HD DVD "lives" in one area you probably didn't realize. HD DVD's codecs and HDi system powers the Xbox downloads store. HD DVD also had mandatory managed copy, meaning that there was a system in place whereby a manufacturer could produce an STB with enough capacity to store all of your HD DVDs and with the capability of downloading HD content in the future, once a workable model for this was put in place. So HD DVD was ready for a future in which plastic discs no longer made up the primary source of content. Blu-ray isn't. That's what made HD DVD scalable.
In the end, it's mostly academic. I'm responding to your points because you asked them. HD DVD is dead. It's a great standard whose life was tragically cut short by the shortsightedness of Hollywood (I suspect Fox's obsession with BD+ ironically is the thing that gave the fatal blow, by all accounts WB just wanted one standard to prevail, it didn't care which), as well as the politics of a divided consumer electronics industry. I don't believe Blu-ray has any credibility as a DVD replacement. So we're going to see a diversity of different ideas on how to deliver something better than DVD over the next few years, of which Blu-ray will be one. Some will be SD but will be far more convenient than DVD. Some will be HD. Some will be a little of both. But don't expect your BD player to be relevant in five years time - it'll be an interesting curiosity, in much the same way as my HD DVD player is today.
squiggleslash @ Jul 29th 2008 9:20AM
Jimmy - I'd like to add one more thing.
I know many of you see people like nfinity as the "Enemies" of Blu-ray that, somehow, if they succeed, will kill it. Actually they're, despite the occasional "stopped clock right twice a day" moments, little more than clowns.
The real enemies of Blu-ray are its apologists.
If you want Blu-ray to succeed, rather than pretending that attacks on flawed systems like BD+ are somehow "FUD" and sticking your head in the sand pretending that Blu-ray is somehow going to integrate well with the online future, you should be /hammering/ the BDA people to FIX THESE ISSUES.
Blu-ray needs a few tweaks to make workable. It needs Mandatory Managed Copy (and a proper implementation thereof.) It needs a better Internet-enabled set of technologies - now the war is over, if they can get over the pride issue, integrating some of the best technologies of HD DVD such as HDi would really help here. And it needs BD+ removed from the spec.
Meanwhile, those who /really/ support Blu-ray should join those who /really/ want a GOOD HD format to replace DVD, and should join us in criticizing manufacturers who are still designing and building obsolete players. At minimum, every player made today should be either Profile 2.0 or should be capable of upgrading to it with a free firmware update. It costs virtually nothing to add Ethernet to a player (you're talking about adding a dollar to the cost of something you're selling for $400-800.)
All of what I'm saying is perfectly possible and reasonable and would go a long way towards making Blu-ray into a technology that's ready both for the future and for today.
If you really support Blu-ray, stop supporting its flaws. Demand excellence.
XDragon @ Jul 28th 2008 6:05PM
That's my point; they are around the same price as DVD not a $15-$20 premium like other people are saying; the bigest premuim I've paid to own the Blu-Ray version of a movie is $5. I don't think you've been reading these posts very long if you think $20-$30 for a movie is a big complaint or are you one of those people who expects to get everything for next to nothing or free!?
imonit @ Jul 28th 2008 7:26PM
@Squiggle - Actually, the A20 and X-A2 both came out before the A30 - both outputted 1080p. But you're right - no relevance.
imonit @ Jul 28th 2008 7:33PM
@XDragon - If you re-read my post, I was referring to the $30 end of your price range. You said that people aren't complaining about $30 BDs. If they aren't complaining about that price, then what the heck are they complaining about? Amazon's top price seems to be 27.95 for most new releases. Don't tell me people who are posting on this blog don't know about the Internet and are paying 34.99 at Best Buy. Or are you one of those people that respond w/o actually reading the post?
XDragon @ Jul 28th 2008 9:42PM
I re-read it and again, you've still missed the point.
Not many people complain about the cost of movies except the big haters. The few people who do complain get pointed to the obvious sites where the movies are more reasonably priced because they are seeing high prices because they are shopping in typical stores with infalted prices. Those few people spreading exadurated data confuse the less informed people and thats what this is about.
As you can see, my comment was ranked up, meaning everyone else understands my point. Why you're making a big deal about something that has nothing to do with what i'm saying is odd but by all means, carry on this argument on your own.
I have to say that if you want to talk about something, try harder to respond to the comment instead of sticking a continuation so far away from the inital point as you can clearly see "replying to" before you hit Add Your Comments because its much easier for people to follow.
Fred @ Jul 29th 2008 12:29AM
I disagree about that. They do add some good points, and at the same time it fuels the fire forcing the rest to come with the truth to counter their side. Just because someone is pure anti does not mean he is necessarily wrong, but I agree he is nowhere near right.
Now to the main point… I don’t believe this means much, but if some weird and bizarre way this catches on in the biggest country in the world that develops most of the US materials. It could lead to competition… that has about a 1% chance.
Anyone here really think after all the hell the movie companies went through going with two sides that they would do it again, I don’t think so. So it “might” affect Blu in China, but it won’t affect Blu anywhere else.