A very lucky AVS Forum member
found Pioneers latest Blu-ray player at a local Magnolia/Best Buy store and was nice enough to share some pictures and kick off an owners thread. Evidently the firmware running on the player isn't quite ready and the particular units in hand were meant to be in store demos that were inadvertently sold -- the update is available though. The initial impressions are good, overall, but load times don't seem much better than
the last generation. Although we don't see this as a mainstream player -- since it costs more than the current Samsung or Sony player and there's no hope it'll ever feature BD Live (no Ethernet port) -- we do expect it to be in contention for the player of choice for videophiles, and can't wait to get a chance to
play with it.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Ben @ Jul 18th 2008 11:05AM
It's post like this that make no one like you.
I didn't say it wasn't ready for mainstream. I said it wasn't a mainstream product, just like all the other Elite products made.
It if fully functional, and just because my car doesn't have a turbo doesn't mean it isn't fully functional, I still get to work every day.
Who mentioned performance? No one, boot times were mentioend. Who really cares how long it takes to boot.
And why am I even responding to your hate? You really should listen to your mother when she told you "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." And if she didn't tell you this, that explains alot.
Leonardo DiCrapio @ Jul 18th 2008 11:40AM
I am getting the Pioneer BDP-05FD. The list price of the BDP-05FD is $799.99 ($200 more than the BDP-51FD). The BDP-51FD is Pioneer's first Blu-Ray player that will have a MSRP of less than $999.99. I've seen the BDP-95FD (MSRP $999.99) on display, and I was quite impressed with the picture.
You get what you pay for. There are lots of Plasma HDTV's out there. You could get a Vizio, a Panasonic, or a Pioneer. I'm perfectly happy with my 42" Panasonic (which was and still is the most bang for buck as far as I'm concerned, especially for a grand 18 months ago pre-Kuro). But I am willing to pay the premium for a 2nd or 3rd Gen Kuro in about a year when I upgrade to a 50-60" Plasma. And I'd really only consider getting a Vizio Plasma if I needed/wanted a 32" HDTV in the $500 price range.
Fargus @ Jul 18th 2008 11:45AM
People who could care less about profile 2.0 features and just care about top of the line audio and video playback would get this, hence him saying it was in contention for vidiophiles..... obviously not you.
Leonardo DiCrapio @ Jul 18th 2008 12:16PM
"That's exactly not true with Blu-Ray crap.. you will actually find BETTER units with better quality and features then this Pioneer."
Sorry, Nfinity, nice of you to tell me what I want. I was considering the Panasonic DMP-BD50 or Sony BDP-S550.
Maybe you don't realize that Pioneer built all of the early Sony Blu-Ray players.
All I want is DTS-HD MA over analog outputs for under a grand -- that left me with three candidates. I could care less about Profile 2.0.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980672
Did any of the HD DVD players decode DTS HD-MA? I watched Pan's Labrynth on my RCA, but I think I was just listening to the DTS Core soundtrack.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=957051
JDS @ Jul 18th 2008 11:54AM
nfinity
you were so much more tolerable with the hello kitty avatar.
btw: Pioneer Elite isn't mainstream and seems to do just fine with their demographic....their items somehow find away to avoid clearance sales, fire sales, discounting etc....UNLIKE TOSHIBA
it's only going to be a few more weeks before you, truth teller, gus, hd4me....all become totally irrelevant...not that you aren't now but even more so. [if that's possible]
so many new blu-ray players causing prices to fall [Japanese players, Chinese players, Korean players]
so many new titles driving revenue up.
rolling right into the holiday season.
and you're such a hypocrite...you own blu-ray, buy new blu-ray titles weekly yet can only speak about blu-ray in the most negative terms
you should take some time to find your identity......in the mean time change your avatar back to hello kitty you pussy
David S @ Jul 18th 2008 11:55AM
Call me crazy, but is there a difference in performance quality between videophile Blu-Ray players and you run of the mill player such as a Sammy 1500, Sony 350, or PS3? I mean assuming it's not a POS, do videophile even notice a difference in video and audio qulaity. While design, UI, features (RS-232) mioght make a player better, when it comes to pure playback is there a difference that a videophile will see, and is there a difference the average HD consumer will see?
JDS @ Jul 18th 2008 12:26PM
David S
People that buy Pioneer Elite only buy Pioneer Elite or Marantz or other 'high end" brands.
They wouldn't know or care about how the other brands perform.
Many in this demographic work with a home theater consultant that delivers, installs, sets up / programs etc...then shows the end user how to operate.
Much of the time these products are sold when the home theater consultant calls an existing customer & makes them aware that a new model in a specific product line is now available.
Customer buys & moves on with the perception that they have the "latest & greatest' once installed.
That's how Pioneer, McIntosh, Marantz & other 'high end" brands get by, they have a loyal following that only buys their product.
Also these brands do not over produce, they know going in how much product to deliver to retailers.
kjuneja @ Jul 18th 2008 12:02PM
The decoding chips could be better. Just because it doesn't have an ethernet port and isn't 2.0 compatible doesn't mean its worthless to people who are seeking out the absolute best in quality.
DrXym @ Jul 18th 2008 12:29PM
Please explain dumbass why this player is not "finished"?
JDS @ Jul 18th 2008 12:40PM
this weeks Neilsen Videoscan numbers are in and Blu-Ray scored 12% VS DVD 88%...that may be a new record for Blu-Ray VS DVD market share
DVD revenue down 5.21%
Blu-Ray revenue up 7.12% - maybe another record because usually Blu-Ray is down when DVD is down...not this week
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom828645HFK/index.php
quick nfinity & truth teller say something negative
Gus @ Jul 18th 2008 8:21PM
Nah, you've started me off all ready so allow me, I hope you enjoy your obvious hard on, but the true representation is what......1-2% of the TOTAL market, not this BDA feel good BS mis representation that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy that makes you gush away like a pre pubescent school girl, get a life.
Gus @ Jul 18th 2008 8:22PM
Nah, you've started me off all ready so allow me, I hope you enjoy your obvious hard on, but the true representation is what......1-2% of the TOTAL market, not this BDA feel good BS mis representation that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy that makes you gush away like a pre pubescent school girl, get a life.
JDS @ Jul 18th 2008 12:55PM
this weeks Neilsen Videoscan numbers are in and Blu-Ray scored 12% VS DVD 88%...that may be a new record for Blu-Ray VS DVD market share
DVD revenue down 5.21%
Blu-Ray revenue up 7.12% - maybe another record because usually Blu-Ray is down when DVD is down...not this week
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom828645HFK/index.php
quick nfinity & truth teller say something negative
DrXym @ Jul 18th 2008 2:29PM
They're early this week.
You certainly can't read anything into a single set of results. Sales vary considerably depending on the titles released on BD and DVD in a particular week. All you can do is look at the macro scale and see if the general trend is going up or down. And for Blu its definitely going up and will continue to do so as all of the studios are picking up steam with their releases, especially towards Christmas and sales of HD TVs and players will just increase demand even further.
RedOut @ Jul 18th 2008 12:58PM
Instead of inserting our heads into our rectums, let us discuss the unique feature set that will make this the dominant videophile player of this generation at a reasonable price:
-36 bit deep color upconversion to prevent color banding
-source direct (only pioneer and pioneer based sony's) which is vital for use with a standalone scaler
-no profile 2.0 (simplified setup for installers, ie set it and forget it)
-decodes all audio formats internally
At nfinity, all this sounds pretty good for 500 dollars...
Leonardo DiCrapio @ Jul 18th 2008 1:51PM
Nfinity, why don't you go watch some HD DVD's. Oh, wait, there are no new HD DVD's that you want to watch?
Some of us have gotten over the format war, Michael Scott. You, on the other hand, don't realize that you are becoming less and less relevant each and every day that passes.
Why don't you just buy a Blu-Ray player already and shut up?!
Marty @ Jul 18th 2008 1:08PM
There are a few things that make this Pioneer desirable for home theater enthusiasts. First of all, since it is 1.1 and doesn't have an ethernet port, that means no one (Pioneer or the movie studios) have the ability to "update" your machine without your permission in order to revoke pirated BD keys. Second, it has analog 7.1 outputs, perfect for those who may have an older high-end receiver that doesn's support HDMI. Third, it has a "source direct" mode that allows it to pass on an untouched digital 480i signal to the tv for SD DVDs. This is useful because some tvs like the Pioneer Kuros contain superior upconverters and thus do a better job upscaling the content to1080p than the Blu-ray player. Finally, if you read the AVS Forum thread that this story is referencing, you will see that the longer bootup time that was quotes was limited to one particular title. Other BD titles took between 20-40 seconds to load, which is significantly quicker than most current BD players.
Mr. E @ Jul 18th 2008 1:18PM
I find it absolutely hilarious that people are blasting this particular Blu-ray unit. As if there's not room in the marketplace for price/feature differentiation? Even a complete commodity item like DVD players still range in price from about $50 to over $300, depending on features and brand.
Everyone has their own idea of what value means to them. Maybe somebody wants a Pioneer player just because it matches the rest of the equipment in their rack. Who cares? I for one am VERY glad that with Blu-ray people have a wide choice of manufacturers and price points to choose from.
Leonardo DiCrapio @ Jul 18th 2008 1:42PM
Exactly, Mr. E
Earlier this week on Woot.com (or was it Sellout.Woot.com?), there was a new Oppo up-converting DVD player (which normally retails for about $200) on sale for $100.
The comments ranged from, "What a great deal! It is brand new (not refurbished) and half off." to "What a rip-off! I can get a (Samsung, Sony, or other name-brand model) up-converting DVD player (at a store like) Best Buy for $50."
BTW, I own an Oppo DVD player (Model 970HD, which has since been discontinued), which retailed for $149.99 when I got it.
squiggleslash @ Jul 18th 2008 2:06PM
You know, nfinity's right on this one. It's an obsolete player, yet it's generating excitement amongst people who really should know better.
If I were a Blu-ray fan, I wouldn't be praising manufacturers for still pushing out Profile 1.0/1.1 incapable-of-2.0 players, I'd be kicking their asses for letting the side down.
Don't let them get away with this. An expensive, premium, product shouldn't be obsolete before it leaves the factory, for crying out loud.
Miguelitosd @ Jul 18th 2008 3:45PM
Why is this guy happy? Duh.. it's avsforum. Filled with people that love to be bleeding edge and are definitely very often the very, very early adopters. There tends to be a lot of cred there in being the first to get a hands on with anything.
You can get tons of great info from people there, but often there's a ton of time wasted on stuff that I could care less about... all my opinion of course, and to each his own.. but they get more mired down in HT details in hidden factory menus and stuff in TVs then the vast majority of people would ever care to.
h0mi @ Jul 18th 2008 6:09PM
"Did any of the HD DVD players decode DTS HD-MA? I watched Pan's Labrynth on my RCA, but I think I was just listening to the DTS Core soundtrack."
No HD-DVD player decodes DTS HD-MA.
Gus @ Jul 18th 2008 8:14PM
Thanks for the lead in JDS-Just Dumb Stupid-Jumpedup Dip Shit-but Nfinity has a valid point.
Take off the blu ray hat for a moment for gods sake, any " A/Videophile techy" type surely WANTS all the bells and whistles and top of the line features?
Thats why I have always bought the top of the range, even if i don't use all the features, I still want them, and one of the things I love about my XA2 is the ability to plug it into the internet and update it, thats a big part of what makes it a NEXT GENERATION DVD player.
In this day and age, profile 2.0 should be the standard, to say otherwise is blatant ignorance. I would not buy this player because it is not profile 2.0, it is a disgrace, so save your jibes for someone else, this is an over priced, under specked POS, we both know it.
squiggleslash @ Jul 19th 2008 9:19AM
Wouldn't you be better off upgrading your receiver if DTS-HD is what you're wanting this thing for?
squiggleslash @ Jul 19th 2008 9:40AM
You do know that you don't HAVE to plug a Profile 2.0 player into the Internet, right? It would be a severe problem for Blu-ray's adoption if all modern, non-obsolete, players needed an Internet connection to work!
Profile 2.0 does not mean "Hollywood can hack into your machine and change the keys", it means "You can access all of the content on the disc, both now and for discs that come out in the future."
An inability to support content on new discs is not an advantage. This player is obsolete. It shouldn't have been released as is (the hardware cost of adding Profile 2.0 would be a dollar at most!), and I'm utterly bewildered people are posting here making excuses for them. Blu-ray advocates need to condemn player manufacturers who are making premium players that don't conform to spec, not making excuses for them.
Imagine if Apple released a Mac only capable of running Mac OS 9 applications, priced at $5,000. Imagine if Microsoft's "Windows 7" turned out to only run real-mode applications. Hell, imagine if Toshiba released a DVD player only capable of playing single layer DVDs, priced at $500, with the PAL version unable to support Dolby Digital. It wouldn't matter how good the rest of the spec is, you'd slap Apple, Microsoft, and Toshiba around, and with good reason too.
Ben @ Jul 19th 2008 9:42AM
BD Live is a feature, no different than power windows on a car, sure it is nice to have, but you'll still get to work just the same.
Saying a Blu-ray player without BD Live is obsolete, is like saying a car without power windows won't get you to work.
The fact is that the movie will play just the same, BD Live or not, therefor it is not obsolete.
DVD4ME @ Jul 19th 2008 12:16PM
If a car doesn't have power windows these days, it's the betty basic poverty pack Hyundai, your comparison reflects this player representing a top of the line Mercedes Benz, but without power windows! ....unsaleable!!!
Come on, cut the corporate BS, this player, and ALL BR players by this time in the market should be mandatory profile 2.0, anything else is second best and just not good enough!
Ben @ Jul 19th 2008 12:22PM
You can dance around it all you want, but you can't get Bluetooth in a brand new Porsche, do you think people who want one go to the dealer and baulk because it is "obsolete" and for 80k you should be able to at least buy BT as a dealer option that isn't some POS aftermarket add-on?
No, they don't care, and either do Pioneer Elite owners.
At this point, you're just being a troll and if this BS doesn't stop, I'm going to get real lose and happy with the delete button.
Roland @ Jul 19th 2008 1:22PM
Has anyone ever compared Onkyo DVD players to Pioneer DVD players? In your opinion, do Onkyo players have better picture and sound quality than Pioneer players? I ask this because I've never tried Onkyo disc players before but I've tried a lot of Pioneer players.
Also, how do Denon DVD players compare to Onkyo DVD players in terms of picture and sound quality? I know that Denon's picture has a lot more depth than Pioneer's picture. Does Onkyo's picture have the same amount of depth as the Denon players? I'm really trying to decide which of these brands to buy. I can only choose one.