Not that it's really
any surprise, but one particular studio is taking a stand and looking to lower Blu-ray Disc prices. In an effort that's far too late (but quite welcome) by our estimations, Warner Home Video will reportedly be launching an initiative in Q4 2008 that will "essentially enable retailers to order participating catalog titles for around $11." For the consumer, this means you can look forward to seeing older titles like
The Fugitive,
Enter the Dragon,
Clockwork Orange,
The Shining,
The Aviator,
Road Warrior and
Swordfish with price tags much lower than the traditional $20 to $25. Newer releases won't be promoted quite as heavily, but prices on those are still expected to be lower than what we've been seeing. Now, if all the other firms would follow suit (and BD player manufacturers would get those
sub-$200 decks on shelves), we'd be all set.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
exstasie @ Jul 15th 2008 1:16PM
It's still a step in the right direction though!
Achilles @ Jul 15th 2008 2:13PM
@nfinity
Come on, let it go. HD-DVD is gone. I'd rather have HD-DVD but they closed shop. We're stuck with the overpriced BR. It happens. Let the past go bro!
Hopefully, BR prices will fall. Only time will tell, unfortunately.
J.Goodwin @ Jul 15th 2008 1:42PM
Sounds more like they're re-adopting their HD-DVD pricing strategy.
I wonder how Warner's hi-def sales have gone since they went Blu-ray exclusive. I'm willing to bet that they've dropped off somewhat after the initial suicide run on HD-DVD titles.
Warner used to be the biggest fish in the 2nd biggest pond, now they're another also-ran on a format that doesn't have a decent head of steam (not that HD-DVD did).
They could bring their nice beautiful VC-1 transfers over to the Bluray camp though. Would be a nice change from what's passing for hi def from some of these studios.
DrXym @ Jul 16th 2008 5:27AM
I don't see anything wrong with Warner's strategy. They did the same thing with DVD - disks were initially very expensive, then as the format was going mainstream WB came along with cheaper disks to capture more of that new market. They're doing the same with Blu Ray. Makes sense really.
J.Goodwin @ Jul 15th 2008 1:42PM
Sounds more like they're re-adopting their HD-DVD pricing strategy.
I wonder how Warner's hi-def sales have gone since they went Blu-ray exclusive. I'm willing to bet that they've dropped off somewhat after the initial suicide run on HD-DVD titles.
Warner used to be the biggest fish in the 2nd biggest pond, now they're another also-ran on a format that doesn't have a decent head of steam (not that HD-DVD did).
They could bring their nice beautiful VC-1 transfers over to the Bluray camp though. Would be a nice change from what's passing for hi def from some of these studios.
MadMike @ Jul 15th 2008 1:51PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The people who run these companies are for lack of a better word - FUCKING INSIPID MORONS.
Rob @ Jul 15th 2008 1:55PM
Well, I'm all for lower prices as long as it doesn't mean lower quality too. But, considering that Warner has done the double dipping already with "Full Metal Jacket", I would not be surprised if that's their strategy. I was foolish enough to buy both versions of the movie. Granted that with the sales and BOGOs I got them both for about $20 total. But, I'm curious as to what this whole thing really means for the consumers. You'd think lower prices. But, retailers have a way of sticking it to the consumers. So, we'll see.
Big Wizz @ Jul 15th 2008 2:02PM
A) Your first paragraph makes a HUGE assumption that all catalog titles will be on 25GB discs. Are you on all Warner Operation/Production meetings?
B) 25GB is still 5x larger than the 4.7GB (DVD disc).
C) You are still a huge douche for pouncing on damn near ever Blu-Ray post on this site.
(and no, I don't have anything Blu-Ray, still good 'ol DVD and the occasional HD download from Xbox Live).
Achilles @ Jul 15th 2008 2:08PM
I guess better late than never! Now, if they can get decent (complete iteration models, not BR-ready or future ready BS) BR-Players into the $200.00 realm, we'll be set.
That's what I'm waiting for before I buy!! My $$ is waiting.
TrentD @ Jul 15th 2008 2:12PM
Why isn't Nfinity banned yet? Nobody on this site has a more clear agenda, and Engadget gives him a platform to shout from day after day.
Achilles @ Jul 15th 2008 2:16PM
That's the point. It's a forum, he's got his opinion, as one sided as it always is, it's still an opinion, just like all of ours.
He can't get banned for being a douche! It's just his way!
TrentD @ Jul 15th 2008 3:04PM
Achilles, it's not a forum - it's the comments section of an electronics blog. They're different.
Nfinity never has anything to add - he simply shouts his anti-BD rhetoric from the hilltops, and often provides misleading or flat out incorrect information. It's unacceptable that he's here just to bash Blu-ray - how do we know he's not from Toshiba, or an investor who owned Toshiba stock? Should we put up with companies, or their representatives spamming here? If he has nothing to truly add to the discussion, he should be prohibited from posting, IMO.
Rob @ Jul 15th 2008 3:42PM
Comic relief.
Achilles @ Jul 15th 2008 3:59PM
I see your point. He is always on sided but no one else was asking for bans when HD-DVD closed shop and many BR supporters were bashing Toshiba.
Even if he is a Toshiba stock holder and he lost out, it's just one person's view. If he gets banned for his bashing of BR, we should ban HD-DVD bashers. No one wins.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending his one-sided views/rhetoric. What I am doing is advocating free speech, regardless of it's bias.
IMO
JimC @ Jul 15th 2008 4:11PM
It's not that Nfinity is bashing blu-ray, it is that he makes crap up. Bashing blu-ray on factual basis is ok, bashing it on crap you've made up, should be ban-able offense....
Fred @ Jul 15th 2008 7:10PM
One reason why he is not banned is because some of the things he says are valid. But on this I disagree kind of. HD DVD I thought was better and cheaper and lost (I believe because of the Trojan horse PS3 nice quote guys on the podcast), but the good thing about this is that Warner is pushing for retailers to sell, yes older Blu-Ray movies cheaper, therefore causing a shift and forcing others to go cheaper and now compete with regular DVD. This should start a trend where even new Blu movies will come out cheaper. (I hope)
Now as to everyone going to downloads. Ahhhhhhh no. We are a disc society, and when you have downloads that takes up downloading times, space, and no extra features that people enjoy. Downloads is not the future of movies in my opinion. We like having something in our hands and moving it from place to place.
Byrdman @ Jul 15th 2008 10:43PM
so blu-ray is now the new betamax? if anything hd-dvd was like beta max. only one manufacturer and it failed miserably (to the tune of a $900 million loss for toshiba). get over it. i bet as soon as blu ray players hit the sub $150 point (which is getting closer every day), you will be the biggest fanboy around
TrentD @ Jul 15th 2008 2:27PM
Why isn't Nfinity banned yet?
burndive @ Jul 15th 2008 2:27PM
Let the price wars begin!
JDS @ Jul 15th 2008 2:59PM
nfinity this one is just for you...cause I know it will 'make your day":
http://www.tmcnet.com/ce/articles/34143-toshiba-were-focusing-blu-ray-discs.htm
Toshiba: We're Focusing on Blu-Ray Discs
By Calvin Azuri, TMCnet Contributing Editor
Toshiba (News - Alert) is currently suspending the production of HD-DVD video disc players and now only Blu-ray disc is available in the 1920 A-1080 format, leading to its dominance in the disc player and video disc market, according to the company.
Due to the lack of Blu-ray disc sources in the Chinese market, few buyers of Blu-ray disc players have been attracted to Sony, Panasonic (News - Alert), and Pioneer, according to Toshiba.
Tootoo.com officials say they learned from a Blu-ray Disc Association press conference that Shanghai Epic Music Entertainment Company Ltd. will soon be producing Blu-ray Discs in mainland China, Toshiba says. The company currently has a workshop extension project underway in Shanghai that has almost been completed, according to the company. Production of Blu-ray discs should begin in December, officials say.
As one of the primary members of the Blu-ray Disc Association, Sony announced a promotion on sales of Blu-ray disc players in China, Toshiba says. The promotion involves gifting limited edition Blu-ray video discs. Henceforth, buyers of BDP- S300 Blu-ray disc players can expect to receive one of three limited edition Blu-ray movie discs, according to the company. These include “Kung Fu Hustle,” “Spider Man 3,” and “Open Season.”
Blu-ray products are now in a rapid development phase in the Japanese market, where Blu-ray disc player sales have been valued at more than 50 percent of the market share in Japan for the entire disc player market, according to the company. More than 11 million Blu-ray movie discs have been sold in the United States, company officials say.
One hundred and eighty reputable member companies form part of the Blu-ray Disc Association, which is focused on the development and promotion of the Blu-ray disc format, according to the company. The Board of Directors is made up of 18 member companies. These include Apple, Dell (News - Alert), Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, Disney, and Warner Bros., company officials say.
Blu-ray discs, which are up to five times clearer than regular DVDs, are quickly replacing traditional DVDs in Europe, America, and Japan, officials say. In the interest of speeding up industrial production in China, the Blu-ray Disc Association has adopted a “good will” policy with regard to the technical standard of China’s Independent Intellectual Property Rights; thus, encouraging China’s native enterprises to participate more actively in the production of Blu-ray products, company officials say.
Calvin Azuri is a contributing editor for TMCnet. To read more of Calvin’s articles, please visit his columnist page.
Truth Teller @ Jul 15th 2008 4:57PM
That looks very thin on properly sourced & concrete info there JDS.
I'd expect no-one to be leaping into a high def disc based format right now.
I suspect both groups that backed each format have been looking at events with deep disappointment, if not surprise at how little public demand there has been for high def (of either flavour) when it came to it.
For those that wanted a 'Rolls Royce' high def (with image and audio quality as good as it can possibly be) there is to be nothing but disappointment and/or high margin pricing.
Dolby 5.1 (vanilla 'digital', not 'plus', version) and VC-1 is going to be 'it' by download
(even Sony are offering not 1 but 2 such services, on their PS3 & Bravia HD TVs).
Any of the other options have for various reasons, rightly or wrongly, either fallen away (like HD DVD did) or just aren't selling enough to genuinely excite anyone and/or justify the costs
(which is where Blu-ray currently is).
It was fun while it lasted but disc based movies in high def will not be going mass-market.
Similarly those who keep on mouthing the phrase 'sub $200 Blu-ray players' are dreaming.
They are not here and will not be here for some time yet (Q3/4 2009?).
Blu-ray is still overwhelmingly a PS3 format. Great idea to give it a starting boost but they never did work out how to transform from that niche to the mass-market in anything like a serious timescale.
You could have had HD DVD slide in seamlessly as the next big deal - particularly with combo & Twin Disc - but you (those PS3/Blu-ray fanboys amongst us) cheered on the industry as it rigged the market in favour of it's preferred (higher margin/high 'security') format.
Reap what you sow.
=====================================================
......and btw, these periodic demands to ban people when you don't like what they have to say are pathetic.
You claim to worry if Nfinity is connected to Toshiba?
Yeah right.
As if.
But on the other side of the coin we do know (by their own admission and by their being repeatedly found out setting up fake supposedly independant sites) some posters in these sorts of forums are paid by the BDA/Sony to talk-up the format.
(for those that have trouble with this one go look up 'project hydra')
I suspect TrentD is a paid hydra saddo, he does nothing but act as a cheer-leader for Blu-ray and is utterly devoid of any critical thought on the matter.
Ban him/her, now!
Ron @ Jul 15th 2008 3:19PM
Good job Warner!
squiggleslash @ Jul 15th 2008 3:30PM
Er, what?
What, exactly, is wrong with WHV releasing content on BD25 disks? When did that become a terrible thing? 25Gb is more than enough to store a high quality 1080p24 movie of several hours length, lossless soundtrack, and a few extras to ice the cake. And, yes, it's lower cost (and more solid) than BD50.
And, personally, I have no objections to them releasing older titles. My favorite HD DVDs are 2001 and Blade Runner. I wouldn't say either of those titles are particularly new. At least one of them is a WHV release (can't remember who did BR.) For Blu-ray to develop a decent library, it needs everything, not just the latest thing with Mike Myers and Angelina Jolee.
Doc @ Jul 15th 2008 3:58PM
$11 movies? I'm impressed, older movies should be discounted IMO. This just makes getting older movies that much easier of a decision if you're wanting to pick-up a classic, since $11 is better than $29. So just give me a $200 stand alone player and I'm in!
Gus @ Jul 15th 2008 9:07PM
$11 is wholesale price to the retailer, not the public, whether the savings make it to the consumer or end up in the retailers pocket remains to be seen.
h0mi @ Jul 15th 2008 4:06PM
There is _nothing_ in this press release that indicates what Warner or any other studios are doing as it pertains to PQ of their new blu-ray releases. This is a press release about pricing strategy of discs that have already been authored and have PQ ranging from so so to great. Some of which are on BD50s and others on BD25s.
DrXym @ Jul 15th 2008 4:42PM
So how many Blu Ray discs from Warner do you have in your 100 disc collection Nfinity?
Landlocked @ Jul 15th 2008 4:57PM
Speaking of crappy PQ...it sure seems as though a lot of "big movies" on standard DVD are coming in at less than the size of one layer. I remember when...cough...people backing their collection had to compress the main movie plus one audio choice down to 4.3 GB or whatever the size is. Now you can find movies coming in 2 GB-3 GB. Is this because the upconverts are doing their job too well??
h0mi @ Jul 15th 2008 5:41PM
Sigh.
BD50 FUD is so 2006. Ok maybe 2007.
http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php
reports that in July 2008 there have been 22 titles released Only 5 were BD25s.
June 2008 releases? 38 discs, 14 BD25s.
For all of 2008? 223 releases, 70 BD25s. (35%)
Mike @ Jul 15th 2008 7:13PM
TRY...sub $120 and that threshold lowers as gas goes up and depending on how super upscaling looks and costs.
Harmin C. @ Jul 15th 2008 8:05PM
Simple reply to this Nfinity is that,
I will end up buying all of these. Why, you might wonder is because I do not own the high def formats of these films. I wouldve bought them on hd-dvd seeing as how I have 3 players to play them on (laptop, hd-a3, and my lg super blu combo), but now if they are 11 dollars or whatever, I can easily pick these up and they'll have a better longevity than if i were to get the hd-dvds.
I've not been visiting this site long, but long enough to see the format war and I have noticed that you reply negatively to anything blu-ray related... Its like any post that has blu-ray in it, you have to comment and negatively at that. We all get it. You loved hd-dvd, as did I. It lost so now lets get over it. Its gotten to the point where you sound like a sore loser who isn't contributing much anymore. I mean all of your posts are the same.
Devron @ Jul 15th 2008 8:18PM
Ben, you raise so many excellent points that I never gave much thought to (particularly about the studios.) I still think that, all fanboyism aside (I own a PS3 and enjoy Blu-ray movies) Blu-ray isn't going to enjoy anywhere near the success that DVD did.
I think many of the facts that you raise support the fact that folks like me *aren't* giving "Joe Six Pack" any credit. I stand behind these folks in Best Buy and eavesdrop. I also do some side business where I consult folks on technology purchases. I agree completely that they're just going for buzzwords -- "Give me a 1080P set". "I need HDMI". But these are the same folks that would rather have their colors popping beyond realistic levels than providing a true representation of what the filmmaker/producer envisioned.
I'm giving "Joe Six Pack" NO credit. :-) I believe that to most consumers, the migration from VHS to DVD was much more about convenience than it was about image quality. Aside from the obvious quality difference, there were a ton of other differences that made DVD popular, like smaller size, no rewinding, skipping between scenes, ability to rip digitally, etc.
I think my post on the podcast last week got misinterpreted. I wasn't trying to bash folks like Leo Laporte and others who comment on high definition media. I'm simply saying that if these are the opinion leaders in the tech community who are doing podcasts, going on CNN and local TV talking about the formats and even they can't see the difference between upscaled DVD and Blu Ray, then what hope does Uncle Eddie in Peoria?
Another key factor is that folks like me are looking at their massive DVD collections and realizing how little they've watched them. There wasn't a 'Netflix' when I got started. And honestly I think I'd own less movies now if there were.
Bottom line for me -- if we make ANY noticeable strides in bandwidth in the next two years, believe that the convenience of being able to download from the iTunes store (or whatever store) is going to trump any physical format. Folks are getting used to it now with mp3 downloads. It's only inevitable. The only question is whether we'll stay on the same trajectory for improving bandwidth that we've been on.
devron @ Jul 15th 2008 8:22PM
(If there was a previous old post before this - just ignore. Shouldn't have used 1Password with the old comment. Sorry.)
This is a step in the right direction, but I just think this sets the wrong expectation for consumers. They will expect to pay somewhere in this range going forward and unless a commitment is made to lowering prices on a more permanent basis, then, I'm not sure if this will have the desired effect.
MI @ Jul 15th 2008 10:29PM
Wow, it's been a while since I've been out here and low and behold; nfinity's still a tool.
How many DVDs are still single layered discs? Lots.
So what's the big deal if Warner makes some budged discs that are single layered? A full movie and a couple of features will fit just fine with no hit in quality. (Where was this 'logic' when they were putting out HDVDs with only 15G of capacity!?!?)
Get over it, it's not the fall of modern civilization.
DrXym @ Jul 16th 2008 5:25AM
It's worse than that. The dumbass advocates every should watch digital downloads, which means 5Gb or less for movies.
squiggleslash @ Jul 16th 2008 10:25AM
nfinity: You didn't have to tell me three times, and the evidence to bolster your claims is sadly lacking.
They're not going to have to over-compress anything to get high quality 1080p24 on 25G disks. Two hours of high-quality MPEG4 1080p24 video (not including the audio component) barely scrapes 10G. The only reason most HD DVD releases were dual layer was that adding DolbyHD streams plus Dolby Digital EX in multiple languages plus adding a few extras generally pushes you above the 15Gb limit. If your complaint had any validity, then my HD DVDs of 2001 and Blade Runner should look and sound like shit. They do not. The quality is utterly superb.
(It's worth noting that Blu-ray's maximum data rate is 48Mbps. If Blu-ray content was encoded at that rate, including all the still scenes, all the scenes where nothing is going on, etc, you'd have room for around 70 minutes of video + audio on a single layer disc. HD DVD's maximum is around 30Mbps - so there's room for 111 minutes of "HD DVD's highest theoretical quality video" on a standard single layer Blu-ray disc. Now, I shouldn't need to point out that pretty much no MPEG4 video ever goes over 30Mbps, and the data rate is usually much lower, even with the highest quality transfers. On a regular Blu-ray disc, with MPEG4 encoding, you're looking at space for 3 or 4 hours of high quality 1080p24 content. Put another way: there is no reason to over-compress a movie to get it onto a single layer Blu-ray disc, and the only reason to over-compress HD DVD movies to get to a single layer was to fit in more audio.)
I am far from a "Blu-ray fanbot". I don't own a BD player, and have little intention of getting one. I have argued, when it mattered, HD DVD's case against Blu-ray. I am being perfectly consistent in my position. I've said before that HD DVD's media size limits were perfectly ok given the application, and I stand by that. Which is why I find it ridiculous to hear someone argue that single-layer Blu-ray discs somehow don't have enough capacity to store a full length movie without being over-compressed. Sure, if Warner decides to announce "The Stanley Kubrick Collection" as a single BD, mastered as single layer, then yeah, I'd say there'd be some serious compression needed to get there, but I don't see any evidence that's what WHV are talking about at all.
Finally, your examples don't really do much to but bolster the story. WHV is announcing it plans to cut prices, so reporting that prices are currently high doesn't really do anything but help point out why there's a problem Warner feels needs to be addressed.
There's no good reason to believe this story heralds the introduction of poor quality, expensive, Blu-ray discs. Certainly, if they're poor quality, it will not be due to data rates being cut to squeeze them in. If WHV is looking to make "cheap" BD disks, it will do what everyone did with DVD - remove the extra features.