Blu-ray Disc sales estimated to exceed DVDs in 2012
Filed under: Industry, Blu-ray, Other formats
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
andrewgreene @ Jun 24th 2008 12:22PM
This actually seems plausible, if not a little bit on the conservative side. If memory serves, it took DVD a number of years before it finally caught up to VHS in terms of sales and rentals.
kcmurphy88 @ Jun 24th 2008 12:22PM
Unfortunately, the world ends in 2011.
andrewgreene @ Jun 24th 2008 12:23PM
Ok, that seems like a well duh statement, what I mean is that it seems on par with the amount of time that DVD took to catch up with VHS.
minimalist @ Jun 24th 2008 2:10PM
DVD's overtook VHS in terms of US sales in 2003... 6 years after their introduction in 1997.
2 years after the first DVD players were introduced the cheapest ones were still 350 dollars (over $450 dollars in 2008 money). Players were not full featured (no progressive scan, some had no component out, etc). We are right at 2 years into Blu-ray's rollout. Cheap players are 300-400 dollars. They are not full featured yet either.
Sounds familiar, huh?
andrewgreene @ Jun 24th 2008 12:24PM
Sorry, that reply was supposed to be to my comment. I'm having brain issues today.
Mike @ Jun 24th 2008 1:15PM
No the calander ends in dec 2012....12/12/2012 or 12/21/20012 if not mistaken.
Back on point...i just don't see that unless prices come down fast and deep. While there are some waiting for the magical $200 barrier...I wait for around $100... might go as high as $120. But the under $50 is when it will really catch on....and I don't see it that low till 2011 then will take time for the BD base to be in position to buy that many movies.
kcmurphy88 @ Jun 24th 2008 3:09PM
Which was the whole point of the less-ambitious HD DVD: get a working HD format out there that did NOT NEED 5 years to get cheap and full-featured. HD DVD was cheap(ish) and complete in two years.
It was also dead in two years, but that's beside the point.
The main argument by the HDDVD camp was that Blu-ray would take a lot longer to get to completeness. Asserting that this is normal does not mean that the HDDVD folks were wrong.
The question remains: will the format survive the normal growth cycle, or will it be superceded by downloads before it's mature. To be seen.
Nfinity @ Jun 24th 2008 5:10PM
Tell me minimalist,
in your world, if $350 then is $450 today.. tell me how much is the laptop that was $5000 then costing now? $7000?
I'll help you.. a laptop that was $5000 or $6000 then is $800 now with ten times more technology and top of the line evolutionary models are $2000-$3000. It's called technological PROGRESS.
Your math is completely out of whack. The players beside not offering the revolutionary jump that we experienced from VHS to DVD should be A LOT less then what we paid 6,7,10 years ago.
This whole logic that we should paying 1999 prices or more is completely absurd. Where do you people get this stuff? BDA handbook on how to brainwash the masses?
Jeez.
Jimmy @ Jun 24th 2008 6:14PM
Nfinity,
Minimalist is correct. The relative value of $350 spent in 1999 was worth $450 at the end of 2007 (we don't have the numbers yet for 2008). This depends on which U.S. Dollar evaluations you look at:
$435.59 using the Consumer Price Index
$427.96 using the GDP deflator
$483.39 using the nominal GDP per capita
$522.69 using the relative share of GDP
All of these prove Minimalist is correct though.
You suggest that technological progress should be reducing the price of products we use. I agree to an extent. A VCR in 1985 should be more expensive than a VCR in 1995. A DVD in 1997 should be more expensive than a DVD in 2007.
However, this only applies to the life cycle of a single product. You cannot extrapolate that to say that since the price of a DVD player went down over the last ten years that a new product should be cheaper earlier in it's life. Blu-ray like almost all new products follow a similar price curve from introduction through maturity.
If you really want to compare the price Blu-ray to DVD then Minimalist is doing it correctly. Look at the products at the same point in their life cycle. As an even better example, do the same thing with Blu-ray and upscaling DVD players.
Garst @ Jun 24th 2008 6:33PM
It's 12/21/2012, but it signifies the creation of the new world not the destruction of the old/current.
Nfinity @ Jun 24th 2008 8:15PM
Jimmy it's simple.. answer the notebook comparison..this is more reasonable comparison..
old notebook = dvd
new notebook (better specs, higher screen resolution) = blu-ray
you are paying less for new notebook then you paid for old notebook.
Just like you have notebook features like faster wifi, faster CPUs.. they are still cheaper because the technology and manufacturing moves forward.
Only with Blu-Ray we are somehow to swallow the whole price thing because of what? What is is that makes Blu-Ray 7-8 more expensive then DVD? You can't tell me that technology they are using is SO advanced to warrant such a premium in price.
No.. those are excuses. They are all bunch of greedy assholes who merged together to rip us all of money by introducing something that's definitely better but not that worth. It's the same they did with HDTVs.
minimalist @ Jun 24th 2008 8:20PM
Technology only gets cheaper WITHIN a product's life cycle.
Just because you can get a 320 GB laptop drive for 180 bucks now does not mean you have some god given right to whine that 64GB flash RAM drives still cost 750 bucks. There is nothing sinister or shocking about the natural life cycle of a technology product.
Jimmy @ Jun 24th 2008 9:09PM
Nfinity, the notebook comparison is easy and has already been explained in my previous post. A notebook is made up of a few major components: CPU, GPU, Hard drive, Optical Drive, Memory, and LCD Monitor.
All of these components followed the same product life cycle and thus the same pricing life cycle as almost all other components. Every component in the laptop you are asking about is now in the Mature and/or Decline stage of their life cycle. Thus the prices of all the components are at pure commodity price points.
Now what components make up a Blu-ray player:
405 nm Violet laser in comparison to DVD which uses an infrared laser. This component alone was estimated at over $100 less than two years ago and is the part of the system that has dropped in price the most.
Glass lens pickup with aperture of 0.85 in comparison to DVD which uses a much cheaper plastic lens with an aperture of 0.6.
Electronics capable of processing 48 Mbit/s of AV.
For some players also add 1GB of flash storage, a secondary video decoder, and a secondary audio decoder.
Add all of that on top of a decent upscaling DVD player - $100 plus everything above? Lets assume that the stuff above costs $100. Then lets let the company add $50 mark-up. Add another $20 for packaging and shipping and you have a price of $270 delivered to the retailer. Wal-mart has the Magnovox at $298. That seems pretty reasonable to me.
Now lets assume that we increase the quality of several of the electronics and processors. Now we have added $75 to the product. That puts us at $345 delivered to the retailer. Hmm, funny that puts us at retail prices between $350 and $400. Now where have I seen the $399 price point before?
Nfinity @ Jun 24th 2008 10:21PM
Jimmy,
that's the whole point..everything you noted is no different then with laptop. Each one of those electronics and optical technologies are in the certain cycle of their life as other technologies matured they were based on.
Same thing with CPUs, memories, wifi chips, bigger hard drives and so on..
Blu-Ray is nothing more but refined DVD player. They even call it Blu-Ray DVD player as in Digital Versatile Player.
What you note are differences and improvements in production over the previous optics. I don't see how you are seeing this as something completely unique yet you are saying that differences in CPUs that have been SO different and rely on completely different manufacturing methods, technology that wasn't even present in laptops few years ago etc etc..
I'm sorry but your validation doesn't make sense. How do you know really what costs what to make anything?
There have been bigger leaps and completely technology changes in the past 10 years ago with other electronics and computers and yet we are paying less and less for it. I'm wondering how ONLY with Blu-Ray we have to pay more.
Another example is iphone. Just look at that miracle of technology. Touch screen, motion sensors, full 3d capabilities through Open GL, and now even 3G with a bunch of other stuff and it's going to cost $199.
They've tried to play Blu-Ray kind of game from the start by charging $500 for it and got their asses kicked for it. Unfortunately there is no one who will do this with Blu-Ray and force to them to stop selling this overpriced fantasies and how we should be paying prices from 1999 because a lot of big companies are in cahoot about it. It's utterly ridiculous.
Gus @ Jun 24th 2008 10:34PM
I just don't see blu ray as having a normal growth cycle, it's my opinion, and I may be wrong, but blu ray does not have the benefits over DVD that DVD had over VHS, blu ray isn't even close.
Add to that the fact that blu rays growth at this point in its life cycle is high because it is being driven by the PS3, at a similar stage in DVDs life cycle it was stand alone units driving the initial and comparable growth with the PS2 spurring growth later on.
The PS3 install base has a limited amount of penetration and the stand alone market is not driving significant sales at this point, this must be the biggest worry and biggest hurdle for blu ray, because other than the PS3 fraternity, mass market interest is not there, and that is the complete opposite to DVD, at the same point in time, even if you didn't yet own a DVD player, you sure as hell wanted one!
Spiza, feel free to vote me down champ, your a winner!
Nfinity @ Jun 24th 2008 10:37PM
Also.. tell me what seems to be the different in Pioneers or LiteOn Blu-Ray drive for PC that sells for $120-$150 and a standalone player that sells for $500? That's your point there. New optics and drive that allows bitrate you specified. Are you telling me that decoding chip for sound and video whatever, the packaging costs additional $300 per unit?
It just shows you.. that optics cost them about $50 at the most for Blu-ray, the latest price for Broadcom BCM7440 SoC that has Profile 2.0 and HD DVD capabilities was very affordable and so on.. you are free to break it down. I even remember Sony and a bunch of fanboys on AVS and Blu-Ray.com spouting things how they've managed to get these chips down to ridiculously low prices.
So tell me, what exactly costs $300 more to produce a standalone? The rest of the parts on that player is not really that much more expensive then any upscaling DVD player.
It just doesn't make sense and just proves that they are in ripping off business.
I can accept why disc prices might be high because they have completely inefficient and super expensive way of replicating these discs + huge yield rates, so that part I have no doubts about.
This is why I like HD DVD in addition to it's cheapness and full specs. The ability to use existing replication to build high capacity discs without costing an arm and a leg.
Jimmy @ Jun 25th 2008 12:09AM
Nfinity,
You keep trying to compare Audio/Video equipment that is in its second year of production to Computer equipment that is in its XX year or production. The average run of CPUs is in the millions. The average run of LCDs is in the millions. Yet the average run of Blu-ray players is in the tens of thousands. Do you not get the orders of magnitude difference between the two?
On top of that, the hardware inside a blu-ray player is SIGNIFICANTLY different than DVD. You have all of the costs of a DVD plus all of the processing power to handle HD along with the optics.
But fine. Lets take your PC drive example and work from it. The lowest price point I can find for a Blu-ray PC drive is Lite-on for $130. I am going to suggest that the cost of manufacture on this device is about $90.
Now what do we need to get it to work?
Lets go with Broadcom's system-on-a-chip (SoC) devices since you brought them up.
BCM7440 - lowest suggested price I can find $109
BCM97440 - lowest suggested price I can find $139
What else do we need?
Power supply, remote control, case, display, hdmi, component outs, composite outs, packaging, shipping, etc... $50?
So the bill of goods is somewhere between $249 and $279. Now can we add some profit? How about some mark-up for the store? Is an MSRP of $399 really out of the question for this device?
As far as the higher priced units - there will always be premium priced products - they exist because there is a market.
One last thing. You brought up the 3G iPhone and are promoting it as a miracle that is going to cost just $199. According to Fortune magazine, "AT&T is preparing to subsidize $200 of the cost of a new iPhone". This little miracle you refer to will sell for $399 & $499 if you do not sign a 2 year AT&T contract.
This is the same sloppy thinking that led people to believe that Toshiba could sell HD DVD players at $200 and still make a profit. This has been proven false over and over again.
But its ok, you go ahead and believe that there is a vast conspiracy by the manufactures to artificially keep prices high. This despite the fact that the real money in electronics comes from per unit licensing fees. It is for this reason that Sony and Panasonic, the two biggest blu-ray patent holders, want to sell as many blu-ray players as possible.
Nfinity @ Jun 25th 2008 4:07AM
Jimmy,
First of all not all CPUs are manufactured in millions. Second AV electronics are also produced in large numbers..
You show of some numbers at $140 per SoC...where are you getting these numbers and what's the volume you are talking about.
The Blu-Ray player doesn't cost them more then $150 to make.
You are justifying rip off tactics of $200+ dollars per player and you are giving only $40 on a Blu-Ray drive. I don't understand your logic.
That's even considering that Blu-Ray drive costs them $80.. it's most likely that it costs them around $50 to make. Add some packaging, their profit and retailer and you get the price of $120-$130.
If you are discussing this let's be at least real.
The numbers you posted are for basically universal Broadcom SoC that does both HD DVD and Blu-Ray.. I've gotten information recently that that Blu-Ray SoC are around $40-$50 per 1000.
So, essentially the optics and processing costs them $100-$120. Add $80 for the rest of the standalone the MSRP on regular Blu-Ray player Profile 2.0 should be at the MOST $250. And this is with profit and I'm pretty sure my estimates are also quite probably high price wise because they are probably doing bigger production numbers that lowers their costs. 1000 units is nothing. Let's not forget that $80 for the rest of the player includes their profit since they are doing that for players now.
When I say rip off business, it's very simple. These CE companies have formed internal agreements and relationships where they are trying to control the prices. Sony is well know for price fixing and most of the companies in BDA the same. Sony even tried to cover it with previous cases.
To believe that "oh everything is fair and it's a conspiracy theory nonsense" it's absolutely ridiculous. Just look at the grouping of companies under certain patents and how they created Associations and it's clear who's where. The reason this is not being enforced is because these companies are major money makers for governments and are also supported by studios now because they are working in their interest.
It's no coincidence that all companies from MPEG that are trying to kill Vizio for it's innovation at super low prices, together are also major member or founders of BDA.
As I said, $200-$250 for a lower end Profile 2.0 player is acceptable. Considering that upper scale DVD players are at around $100-$150, the premium on these players is somewhat acceptable. But when they sell it for $350 to $700 for mid range players and $2000+ for high end ones, there's no other explanation but that they are in rip off business.
Actually it costs Apple $100 to make the new iPhone. They are not subsidizing anything. They are making $100 on each one with contract and even more money if you are not under contract. But that's a whole other rip-off being allowed to mobile phone providers.
I was just showcasing with iphone that technology can be affordable one way or the other even in smaller volumes.
As for Toshiba .. there's nothing sloppy in my way of thinking. We all knew that Toshiba was most likely not making money. The idea for them was simple.. to continue creating licensing pool from whoever wanted to produce HD DVD players but give their players at a cheap price. In that case we as consumers were winners. We got good players, great HD, finished specs at much lower prices then Blu-Ray and Toshiba was making money from royalties.
That was the whole idea. Let's not even get into disc replication cost-effectiveness by relying on existing technologies. Toshiba even though not saints, in this case were actually doing everything very pro-consumer like. They were relying on DVD technology in replication and compatibility because the manufacturing costs dropped over the course of decade and just worked off of that for the benefit of all of us.
The greedy bastards called BDA were doing the exact opposite. They were pushing completely new manufacturing technology, unfinished specifications so they could charge consumers several upgrade cycles for basically the things we were already given by Toshiba and HD DVD.
What's good or positive about that? NOTHING.
And even today, you really can't recommend anything for Blu-ray unless it's PS3 for the same reason. Do you really think they can't do Profile 2.0 player at lower prices?! Give me a break.
The reason they are still keeping prices high or scaring players with features is because they are backing up Sony to get some return on the billions they lost in payoffs and PS3 pushing Blu-ray. Another agreement.
When PS3 breaks even that's when you'll see Blu-Ray players starting to trickle down in price. Just watch.
SimbaDogg @ Jun 25th 2008 5:56AM
Jesus h christ w/ Nfinity...
Will everyone please do me a HUGE favor and low rank everyone comment by nfinity, then high rank every comment from minimalist and jimmy.
Seriously, have you ever heard of something called INFLATION. From your argument, you'd say that since Chevy charged 3000 for the Camaro in 1969, them charging 30,000 for the same car in 2009 is nothing more than a $27,000 rip off. This is just PLAIN stupid. now i'm honestly wanting to question how old you are, and if you ever took economics. I mean, have you ever heard your parents, or anyone over the age of 50 talk about buying a candy bar when they were a kid for a nickel...yes, 5 cents? Now that same exact hersheys bar costs 70 cents? it isn't a 65 cent ripoff...its inflation. If you dont believe me, just take the number .05*1.05...then do that 49 more times. lets just say inflation over the last 50 yrs was 5% on avg...high, but it works. do the math.
if you want, we can pretend there's no such thing as inflation:
maybe toshiba was ripping customers off with the high prices of their hd-dvd players. Does anyone remember when their first gen models were going for 500 and 700? But they were subsidizing the hell out of those prices, all they way down to the price drops of 200 and 250 bucks. Why do you think they lost 1 billion dollars due do it? Why do you think sony has lost 3.32 billion in a lil under 2 years (due to the ps3)...they're not ripping people off w/ glorified dvd players as you claim. technology isn't cheap, and the subsidized losses these two companies have shown illustrate that they def aren't ripping people off.
If you can show me 1 con-man that goes to florida to rip off old people, but loses money to those same old people everytime he runs his scheme...well, he's not really conning them
No matter which way you look at it man, your arguments just dont hold a lick of water.
Byrdman @ Jun 25th 2008 1:47PM
THANKYOU SIMBA!!! jeez nfinity you are a true dumbass. prices come down over time because the parts become cheaper to make over time. remeber when the first blu rayplayers were released? I remember seeing a samsung one at best buy for $999!!! for a first gen player that had nothing more than playback functionality. no bd-live, and it had bugs. now they start at $350 and go up from there. give it a little more time and the price will be below $200. This is exactly what happened with DVD and VHS. and ya know in another 10-15 years you will probably be saying OMG! we can change formats to -*insert new format here*- from blu ray, there is nothing wrong with it and they are ripping us off
Dave @ Jun 24th 2008 12:42PM
Lets bet it will be before then.
jboy @ Jun 24th 2008 1:13PM
Just in time for the Dec. 21, 2012 Mayan doomsday. How am I prepparing for doomsday? Bluray titles and ammo.
Truth Teller @ Jun 24th 2008 1:27PM
Hmmm, great, more guessing games.
Yeah, these are slightly more plausible......considering the vast gulf between DVD prices & Blu-ray prices.
It doesn't mean that Blu-ray sales will exceed DVD sales.
It just means that the much higher Blu-ray margins/prices are here to stay and they think enough of the PS3 owners will still be buying them.
I guess a fair bit of this it depends on how long & deep the coming recession is, hence the current amusing vogue for keeping actual numbers sold right now under wraps & this nonsense re projections pitched around 2012.
It's pretty ridiculous really but no doubt the fanboy element here will be enthusiastic in evangelising it as concrete reality.
gamedude420 @ Jun 24th 2008 4:02PM
well sony would have already sold over 100 million ps3 systems by then. the ps3 is selling better than the ps2 did within the same timr period of the ps2 launch. and the ps4 would already be out in stores by 2010-2011 along with a new xbox with bluray and nintend with bluray or the holodisc. bluray will be standard on all new pcs by 2010 anyways
Truth Teller @ Jun 24th 2008 4:12PM
If Blu-ray stays wholly reliant on the PS3 and piles up sales there then it's just driving ever further up the PS3 niche/dead-end.
It'll not take off in the a/v mass-market from there, no more than UMD has with the PSP
(which, IIRC still outsells Blu-ray.....and no-one is trying to claim that is the next big thing anymore.....right?)
Truth Teller @ Jun 24th 2008 4:49PM
LMAO
The 'considered' comments just keep coming.
tifosiotaku @ Jun 24th 2008 7:07PM
"And yes, comments are moderated."
Hm, I thought they were moderated...
Truth Teller @ Jun 24th 2008 7:36PM
Awwwww is no-one taking any notice of your whiney creepy little campaign to get me banned?
Diddums.
It must weally weally hurt your wittle feewings, huh?
Maybe you & a Blu-ray.com pal or 2 ought to vote the rankings down some more, that'll really show me!
YodaMac @ Jun 24th 2008 1:37PM
2012??!! I'm already enjoying downloading a large percentage of my SD & HD content in 2008 - I'll be saying a permanent "Buh-Bye" to all physical media formats well before 2012. I'm sure Bluray would have done great about 5 years ago.... (you know, before the iPod)
"Bluray - We're so 1999!"
Nick @ Jun 24th 2008 4:39PM
Until downloads match up with blu ray's features, blu ray will still be around. People's internet connections aren't likely to be fast enough to download 50gb movies on a whim for awhile. Not to mention the space that would take up...
Carney @ Jun 24th 2008 1:41PM
Blu-ray is better in every way, except for the packaging. I -hate- that kiddie blue frame and top stripe with the big honking Blu-ray logo. It interferes with the aesthetics. DVD faces (and faced) no such restriction, and DVD cases can look however they want, with whatever color scheme and theme they like. That makes the case about the movie, not the format.
I realize that Blu-ray needed to distinguish itself from HD-DVD (interesting how those two formats had identical packaging other than the color and logo; was this a deal that was made between the two camps?), and probably still needs to distinguish itself from DVD.
Fine, keep the rounded edged shape and the frame and logo, but just lose the dratted COLOR.
PlayStation 3 games, which are all on Blu-ray, do that, by the way. The frame and stripe are clear.
TrentD @ Jun 24th 2008 3:45PM
I really like the smaller form factor, and the jury is out on the colored plastic...it's nice to tell the formats apart, but then again, it makes some titles look strange.
Achilles @ Jun 24th 2008 2:07PM
More guessing games. Oh great, another prediction. by 2012, something else might be newer and better but again, more guessing. Live in the now.
DEEZNUTZ @ Jun 24th 2008 2:16PM
Let's all agree to mark 2012 on our agendas to thoroughly examine BD's success or failure, OK?
No?
Alright then, lets just continue with yet another 50+ comments bashing/defending BD.
Gus @ Jun 24th 2008 11:00PM
I think think we will all know the success or failure of blu ray, long before 2012.
Jim @ Jun 24th 2008 2:53PM
Not a chance in H-E double hockeysticks
NewGalactic @ Jun 24th 2008 3:37PM
Well, since that's in 3.5 years, I guess I can also confirm the research too ...along with flying cars, nuclear fusion, and a shiny new robot in every home.
To make such a prediction over such a period of time, while considering the volatility of the consumer video media market, is being presumptious to the point of incompetence. Between Netflix downloads and the like alternatives, XBox Live, and whatever iTunes has to offer, it's ridiculous to think anyone has a clue what the numbers are going to be in 3.5 years.
DrXym @ Jun 24th 2008 3:42PM
Sounds entirely reasonable. DVD didn't overtake VHS until something like 2004.
mntwister @ Jun 24th 2008 3:49PM
Truthteller.....you were once (and still are to a point) one of the biggest hd-dvd fanboys out there, so I don't see how you can tease others for being fanboys. It's quite the ridicule.
What is a fanboy anyway? Someone who really likes a format and wants it to succeed? Someone who has bought a PS3 and enjoys it? So what's wrong with that? What's wrong with being optomistic and the success of a high quality format? Better than wishing good formats total failure and settling for less (downloaded compression).
My opinion is excactly the opposite of yours, I believe this story may very well turn out to be true. I hope so. If that makes me a fanboy, then so be it. I like good quality movies!
Truth Teller @ Jun 24th 2008 4:09PM
I'd say fanboy quite fairly relates to the sort of idiots who blind themselves to the serious problems and drawbacks inherent in the whole Blu-ray saga just because they are disturbed & deranged enough to claim to 'love' a game console and the CE corp making it.
Anyone who chooses to ignore the intentions behind Blu-ray (while, of course, being at liberty to do so) are, IMO, short-sighted in the extreme and will end up doing genuine movie lovers a huge disservice.
Cue the endless stream of shallow, infantile & brain-dead 'PS3 demographic' BS.......another 2 or 3 laughably & seriously lame Spiderman movies anyone?
(and don't bother showing some graph which says a handful of over 40s use a PS3, it's really missing the point)
Blu-ray is all about using the (480i/p standard def) USA to ram through a western-world movie format which not only takes 'power' back into the hands of the industry but extends the power and control of the industry (and has the potential to extend that much much further.....and 'they' are not exactly the sorts to be trusted as their criminal activities to date prove - and yes, the root-kit business would have gotten private individuals jailed if they had pulled that stunt).
As a movie lover it's my view that game console kids who are doing nothing more considered than cheering on their favourite game console are the last type of people who should be handed such a big say in such a matter.
Between them and the industry apologists they are doing their damnedest to create this sack of cac.
Fortunately most consumers are studiously ignoring it.
DEEZNUTZ @ Jun 24th 2008 5:58PM
@ TT,
"as a movie lover..." Really? And who makes these "movies" you so love? Who do you think is pulling the strings here? Talk about blinded. You could hate Sony all you want; I am not here to defend them. But to hear your garbage about being a movie lover and yet you completely ignore the business interests Studios have in movie formats is just stupid. Studios are the ones pushing DRM up the ass, not CE. Studios are the ones who are making, remaking, remastering, restoring, remixing, re-editing, re-cutting, re-releasing 9 different versions of the same film. Yes, cause the poor studios are not in it for the money, just for the art of it and to make sure "movie Lovers" like you enjoy great movies, even if they never make a cent from all their work.... Don't conveniently ignore who's pulling the strings. As you already learned the hard way, Studios decided the format war, not the consumer, and certainly not the formats. Studios saw the BEST profit margins coming from BD. Retailers saw the best profit margins coming from BD. And CE manufacturers saw the best profit margins coming from BD. All the players involved followed the money... payoffs and all.
It's home media entertainment, not politics. No one is pointing guns at consumers forcing them to buy BD. Keep buying DVDs. Go the Apple route. Hell XBox Live Downloads is an alternative. You have the power to not ever support the format. Nothing wrong with that. When you write the BS you just posted above, it exposes you for the one-sided hypocrite widowed fanboy we have always known you to be. Give it up already, you can't sink any lower than EPIC FAIL.
... Movie lover.... now THAT was some sh!t to LMAO about!!!
XDragon @ Jun 24th 2008 6:14PM
Ya TT, so basically your comment means "don't bother showing me proof that I'm wrong because I don't care and in my own little world I'm right but I don't need to show proof for anything I say".
That's very mature and you wonder why you're considered the joke of the site. You're your own worst enemy.
Truth Teller @ Jun 24th 2008 6:48PM
Do your shouty BS all you like.
I could care less.
The real "epic fail" idiots around here (as in life generally) are the type who suck up everything they are told and spout it back as if they 'know' it to be true, without a seconds critical thought.
So you end up getting your panties in a knot as you back the poor wittle CE corps and those wovely movie studios pumping out their brain-rot for the self-lobotomising generation, 365/12.
I bet you guys believe it when politicians look straight into the TV & talk really sternly and tell you the coming recession & the continuing lowering of living standards is just unavoidable too.
LMAO
Go on, admit it, you're really 14 and know f*ck all squared about the world.
Mr. E @ Jun 24th 2008 6:52PM
Truth Teller, WTF? Are you seriously claiming that an open standard like Blu-ray, where a disc can be played anywhere, on any machine manufactured by a plethora of companies is somehow more nefarious than a DRM'ed up the yinyang digitial download where you are at the mercy of a single corporation who can invalidate your key whenever they want (see Microsoft's Plays For Sure for a particularly bitter example)?
Come on everybody, it's obvious that he's just yanking chains and getting a chuckle out of it. Nobody in their right mind would take a stance like that.
Truth Teller @ Jun 24th 2008 6:58PM
Yeah E.
ACSS, BD+, HDMI, HDCP and watermarking etc etc
All brought to you by a bunch so nice & trustworthy, eh?
Nevermind the actual track-record.
Just cos the law is now so perverted to business interests in the USA that they can get away with the sort of things that would get a private individual jailed, eh?
Move along everybody, nothing to see here, right?
Go back to sleep everyone, go back to sleep.
XDragon @ Jun 24th 2008 9:23PM
TT i'm over 30 and I know more now than you'll ever know and you can say all the stupid things you like, but no one is fooled by you. Grow up and stop being such a loser. If you have something to say, then say it but when you don't abide by the same rules you expect from others, you show how worthless you are. I'm allowed to disagree with you but when proof exists of your ignorance you still don't accept it! You don't know how to pick your battles and every post you make proves your a bitter little boy that got a pickle stuck in the wrong hole. Do me a favour and french kiss an electric socket in hopes to shock yourself back to reality. If you're the future, then the world has no hope.
XDragon @ Jun 24th 2008 10:01PM
Alternate Response:
You're right TT, we should all be like you. I'm going to try to be half the moron you are, here it goes....
HD-DVD sucks because .....I said so
HD-DVD fanboys are all stupid because .....I said so
Everyone who likes HD-DVD is 12 because .....I said so
Everyone who can't see what i'm saying is being fooled by big companies because .....I said so
Toshiba is fooling everyone and you all suck it up because .....I said so
Toshiba is stupid because they didn't do better to get other companies to make stand alone players because .....I said so
Toshiba is corrupt because they started the bribe trend with Paramount and Dreamworks because .....I said so
HD-DVD would have done worse than Blu-Ray if it had won the format woar because .....I said so
Microsoft is stupid for not making a 360 sku with a built in HD-DVD drive beacuse .....I said so
Don't post proof of my errors because you're stupid for taking everything at face value even though I do the same and call people out on it, but remember the same rules don't apply yo me because .....I said so
Everyone who has anything good to say about HD-DVD is a thelookandsoundofperfect.com worshiper because .....I said so
Everyone that doesn't trash HD-DVD even in the articles with positive or promising news about HD-DVD is a 12 year old stupid fanboy in a niche market of standalone player that don't appeal to the AV market because .....I said so
I tried to follow your example TT; it looks like I couldn't even get half way to your standards of stupid. Maybe I can do better next time!
XDragon @ Jun 24th 2008 10:07PM
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot your famous tag line:
Pretend to enjoy your HD-DVD collection while you gritt your teeth getting exactly what you wanted.
LMFAO at all your comments as I don't care what you think!
You know nothing about anything lol
...Did I get a few more points TT?
DrXym @ Jun 25th 2008 6:11AM
Truth Teller, sorry baby but the copy protection in a Blu Ray disc does not prevent you from lending that disc to a friend, or selling it on eBay, or playing it in any number of Blu Ray players with no pre-registration, with no online checks or anything else. Even if a studio or the store you bought it from went out of business, that disc would still play. Even if your BD player went kaput and you bought a new one that disc would still play.
Of course I can see why you would reach for digital downloads and like to pretend the technology is there yet. It's understandable that a cry baby pissed that their own precious format died would clutch at any straw that "teh Blu Ray iz d00med". Grow up baby, your precious format lost. Blu Ray won't have any serious competition from digital downloads for many years, probably not until a single industry standard appears to purchase and manage them from any store and play them on any device.
Truth Teller @ Jun 25th 2008 9:08AM
LMAO
FFS XDragon how many (pathetic) bites at this do you want?
You are funny.
Totally hilarious is your latest idea that I'm only pretending to enjoy a high def collection.......... that has cost me pennies compared to any credible Blu-ray alternative and which has been very strong on highly collectable classics.
Now that is funny .....and so clearly your own bitterness peaking through.
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Oh look there's Dr Sad and his lamentably feeble cat-call.
My sides are beginning to ache from laughing at your idiocy.