Ask Engadget HD: Using a HDTV to distribute audio
by Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Jun 18th 2008 at 4:00PM
"I've been thinking that the next TV I bought would be the center of my system, with all of the HD inputs connected directly to my TV and the TV feeding digital sound to my multichannel Dolby Digital decoding amplifier. Then I noticed that the TVs SPDIF output doesn't work with HDMI inputs. This seems to me that it's negating the entire purpose of HDMI, using one simple cable. If I connect my DVD player to the TV using HDMI then I don't want to have to string a separate digital cable from my DVD player to my amplifier. I want to connect my TV to my amplifier once, and just use the power button and volume controls on the amp. Is this sort of thing common among TVs with digital sound outputs? Is it some copy restriction issue with the HDMI stuff that the digital sound can't then be shipped to a separate output?"
Unfortunately this is very common and we've heard the DRM excuse on this one a few times -- but who knows if it's true. The fact is that the receiver has been the junction point of the HT system for years, and even with HDMI it continues to be. The good news is that if you play your cards right you can still have one remote (non universal) that easily controls everything. The trick is buying equipment -- which might mean replacing what you already have -- that supports HDMI-CEC, and works well together. Using HDMI-CEC, the receiver's remote can send signals to the HDTV via HDMI to let it know when to turn off and on. Furthermore, you Blu-ray player can tell the receiver to change inputs when it is turned on, etc. The bad news is that although HDMI-CEC is a standard, most manufacturers only guarantee compatibility with their products.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
rg3 @ Jun 18th 2008 4:21PM
All of my components (Blu-ray, HD DVD, Xbox 360) are connected to my receiver via HDMI and then one HDMI cable from the receiver is connected to my HDTV.
yincrash @ Jun 18th 2008 4:50PM
That's expensive for most people though. Having HDMI switching in a receiver isn't cheap.
Andy @ Jun 19th 2008 11:22AM
Its surprisingly cheap. You can get a Onkyo 605 HDMI switching receiver for a little over 200. And it does all the HD audio codecs on top of that. The excuse that its too expensive is not a valid one anymore.
DOSteveSz @ Jun 19th 2008 12:59PM
I agree with Andy. These days, even the lower end models of receivers have an HDMI switch (and if not, it has pass-through). You can get a great receiver for around $250 that includes HDMI. Lets use the Onkyo TX-SR605 as an example. http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR605&class=Receiver&p=i Although the MSRP is $599, you can find it for a much better price. As an example, Amazon has one of their retailers selling it for $315. http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR605-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B000OBLARC/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1213883877&sr=8-2 But when Amazon gets it in stock, they usually sell it for even less then that. And that's only from one site. I'm sure with some looking around, you can find it for a great price as well as Andy suggested.
cclaunch @ Jun 18th 2008 4:28PM
Just use the receiver as intended and plug everything into it, and you've got one cable going from it to the TV. I'm not sure how it could be simpler to run audio through the TV like is mentioned in the article.
xdreamwalker @ Jun 18th 2008 4:41PM
My TV has two cords, HDMI from the receiver and a power cord. Everything is plugged into the receiver which handles the audio distribution like it should be, how it was intended.
TrentD @ Jun 18th 2008 4:44PM
The bottom line is that the digital audio output is only there because of the ATSC tuner, not because of HDMI. They're not linked internally, because that would cost money.
If you're going to have an AV Receiver anyway, just use an AV receiver as your hub and run an HDMI cable to the display.
asiandeity @ Jun 18th 2008 5:04PM
I've got all my components like DirecTV HD DVR box, DVD player, PS2, and PC going into my receiver. I have an optical cable coming from my TV to my receiver as well for when I'm watching OTA HD channels to get digital sound through my speakers.
rasaustin @ Jun 18th 2008 4:55PM
I actually have my HT setup this way, due to the fact that my audio receiver is dated (does not have HDMI, but has optical/coax digital). The DVR & DVD are run to the Pana plasma via HDMI, the XBox via component. The internal source switcher in the HDTV works as an audio switcher to the optical output cable , which is then run to the audio receiver (all audio is PCM). The receiver's only job is to decode the Dolby channels. No complaints.
Mike @ Jun 18th 2008 4:55PM
I think the issue for some people here is that they don't have a receiver that upconverts everything thru HDMI. Some will only do upconvert thru Component while their HDMI is Switching only. That's how it is for me with my Harmon Kardon AVR345. With the high end receivers its not a problem but for the low and mid-range ones it can be.
A1 @ Jun 18th 2008 5:13PM
Sky HD
PS3
Mac
all go into my Onkyo 805.
Couldn't be simpler. (Apart from when i brick my amp trying to update firmware :) Thank god for AVS)
tmd @ Jun 18th 2008 5:46PM
If you want simplicity, just get a macro-programmable remote - then who cares if you have an HDMI capable receiver? Use the existing one, and use a remote like a Logitech Harmony that are down around $99 (or cheaper) They get the job done and are a lot cheaper than spending $300-$400 on a new HDMI receiver...and they are pretty simple to setup too these days (unlike the Pronto was about 8 years ago...).
Shawn Parr @ Jun 18th 2008 5:53PM
I'm glad someone else covered this. If the idea is to simplify the setup for your family, get a Harmony.
I did this a couple of years back, and it was the best thing I could have done. My wife hates gadgets and technology. She can barely use her cell phone (and only as a phone, no SMS, pictures, internet, etc). Getting pictures from a camera to her computer involves asking for help.
With the Harmony she can control everything she needs to. It took her a few seconds to figure out how to turn on and use the system.
While I personally long for a day when there is some real standardization and I can go straight from my sources via one cable (probably HDMI) and then on to the TV without any loss or issues, it is mostly for aesthetics and ease of wiring, not for control. If HDMI-CEC eventually has the market share to be useful then more power to it, but until then there are a few great solutions out there.
Jason @ Jun 18th 2008 8:04PM
Were it not for our Harmony One, we'd have 5 different remotes to fart around with (TV, Receiver, DVD, TiVo HD and Apple TV). It makes a HUGE difference in the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) Department.
Devices get out of state now & then, but the Help button fixes that right up straight away. We've been Harmony users for years now, and the Harmony One replaced the Harmony 659 we just retired and sent downstairs to the kids playroom.
There are occasions that I pull out the other remotes, like when I need to adjust some obscure setting in the receiver or the TV, but for the most part, they sit in a drawer.
cclaunch @ Jun 18th 2008 6:05PM
The remotes are nice but it's very easy to get a device or two out of state.
Darryl @ Jun 18th 2008 6:17PM
That is what the help button is for. It resyncs things to what they should be. Very helpful for the times when you set the remote down to quick and not everything is quite right yet.
Dy Phan @ Jun 18th 2008 6:18PM
HDDVD player, Bluray player , cable box, Wii, HTPC... all go to my receiver then to my plasma. I control it all with a Logitech Harmony One. Easy for the wife and we can stick half a dozen remotes into a drawer.
Cray @ Jun 18th 2008 6:34PM
Biggest problem technology has, whether its computers, home theater, or even mobile devices is the connectivity. I think there needs to be a standard in regards to connecting hardware. I'm all for improving tech, but lets have a 7 year grace period where the connections (Coaxial, Ethernet, USB, AudioVideo jacks) are all one type.
Its amazing that the electric socket hasn't changed all that much in the last 50 years. Why can't we all just pick one type of connection and go with it.
William C Bonner @ Jun 18th 2008 9:10PM
This was originally my question. Part of it that I probably forgot to ask was what use is Picture in Picture, or split screen, in the TV if the TV doesn't control which unit the sound is being produced from?
If the TV isn't switching the sound, what's the point of having anything other than a monitor anyway?
I was looking at the HP MediaSmart TV http://h20219.www2.hp.com/hho/cache/366142-0-0-225-121.html and thinking it would be useful to stream shows from a media server elsewhere in the house without an extra digital box connected to the TV. This was the first mention that I'd seen that the only digital sound output would be from the ATSC tuner.
I should mention that I'm looking at this all as a recommendation for my parents, and they are not going to want to replace their quite functional dolby decoding amplifier. I was just hoping that the cabling issues might be easier if I connected all the video devices to the tv, and the tv to the amplifier.
roz @ Jun 19th 2008 9:57AM
The issue with using the receiver is that it means you need to grab another remote to change input. So to watch a DVD you put down the tv remote, grab the receiver remote, change input, then get DVD remote, then if you need to change volume its hell to figure out.
I guess you can get those harmony remotes or whatever but I still see people with custom systems and these huge remotes who can't figure it out. its just too damn complicated.
So the result is only about 10% of people can figure this out.
I can see the argument here, choose the input in the tv and have one digital audio out to the receiver. First, if you have any kind of cable even this solution is not great because you still need the tv remote to change mode, you probably never use it.
Second if your tv is wall mounted now you have a huge amount of cables going to that visible location. Its much harder to hide the cables when all you need is power and an HDMI. Also the HDMI cables cost a fortune at longer lengths, that along justifies the purchase of a receiver. But still I think its way too complex.
mntwister @ Jun 19th 2008 12:22AM
everything goes to my Denon 3808 receiver via HDMI. Dish DVR, PS3 and Denon 3930 dvd player. That's all that is really connected to my receiver. PS3 decodes the soundtracks (the 3808 also decodes the new soundtracks in Bitstream but I have no stand-alone for it, PS3 does it all). I have one HDMI chord going to my Epson 1080 projector. That's it. Everything is programmed in the Denon's 3808 remote. The receiver remembers the previous settings for all of the machines, and usually automatically picks up the soundtrack I choose. Everything is set to 1080p, so all I usually do is turn on one of the players, switch the input on the receiver and I'm good to go.
I have considered a Harmony but the 3808 remote seems to do it all just fine.
JBDragon @ Jun 19th 2008 1:37AM
When I got my new 50" 1080P Panasonic Plasma, I figured I could just start plugging my HD DVD player and Xbox 360 into it and then run the Optical out from the TV to my Receiver. Problem it it won't send the Digital Surround, I just get Dolby Pro logic II to my receiver now instead of Dolby Digital or DTS. I was hoping to use just the one Optical connection for the 2 devices, but looks like I can't, so I'm going to have to fix it and run Optical from the 2 devices directly to my Receiver.
I don't plan to replace my receiver any time soon just so I can have built in HDMI switching and the newer sound formats like TrueHD. I spend enough on my Pioneer Elite THX Receiver. Maybe in a couple more years. I already spent a lot on my HDTV and some Klipsch Speakers to replace some junk speakers I did have. The back of that receiver pictured, NICE, looks expensive. The 4 HDMI switcher, Multi Component, Lots of Optical ports. It would make things a snap, but I'm not willing to lay down that type of money right now.
S4Rs @ Jun 19th 2008 9:03AM
This is where a nice universal remote comes in for the wife. Take the time to really set it up, ( i would recommend a logitech with a dock, that plugs into the computer) with the LCD screen, and she will have no problems using it.
shmooopy @ Jun 19th 2008 10:02AM
lot of posting here have a very male "here is how I solved it" theme - you are all missing the point - this stuff is too complicated, it should be easy to do for anyone, you should not need to set it up for your wife, you should not need extra devices and crap to switch between tv and a disc
Al @ Jun 19th 2008 12:04PM
I have setup what I believe the questioner is trying to do, and I don't have any problems with the sound.
I have a Panasonic LCD projection HDTV, Denon 7.1 Receiver, DirecTV DVR, Sony DVD player, and a PC. All of the output devices are connected directly to the TV either through HDMI, component connectors, or RGB for the PC. I then have a Toslink cable running from the TV audio out to the Denon Receiver.
Since my Denon Receiver is about 4 years old, it doesn't have HDMI inputs, so I have all content controlled through the TV. I only turn on the Denon receiver when I watch a movie or something with worthwhile surround sound and turn the TV volume down. I figure this probably saves me some cash on electricity since the receiver is a big electricity hog.
William C Bonner @ Jul 27th 2008 5:09PM
Thanks for telling me of someone doing something like I wanted to do.
My parents bought the HP Media Center TV a couple of weeks ago and I helped to set it up. I connected a TosLink cable from the TV to their Bose Lifestyle system, for sound output, their old TiVo directly to the inputs on the new TV, and did some media center streaming of DiVX files I had.
When they play DVDs, the lifestyle system is the DVD Player, so I just hooked an SVidio cable up between the bose and the TV.
The TV seemed to convert all of the sound into a digital stream that the bose recognized and played back, even when the input was stereo RCA cables from the old TiVo.
At some point my parents will probably get an HD TiVo, since dealing with a cablecard vista system seems way too complicated, but the sound seems to be working correcty thorugh the TV.
As a response to everyone here talking about hooking things up through an upgraded reciever, this is my parents we are talking about, they have a multiroom setup with the bose that they are quite happy with, they've had the same TiVo since 2001, and what's the purpose of having multiple inputs on the TV if you are so gung ho on the reciever?
This TV has three HDMI inputs, the built in media center (ethernet, both wired and wireles) and at least two analog inputs, plus the antenna with ATSC reciever.