Nielsen VideoScan High-Def market share for week ending June 8th, 2008
Again on this week's Nielsen VideoScan chart courtesy of Home Media Magazine, we get exposed for our inability to make accurate predictions as we stated last week that we expected half of the DVD top 20 to not be available on Blu-ray. With some help from Paramount for the first time ever only five DVD exclusives made the top 20. The interesting thing is that four of those are Paramount titles, with the last being from Sony. This really has us scratching our head as Sony is the last studio we'd expect to still be releasing DVD exclusives. Either way, Blu-ray managed to not drop as much as DVD this week as Semi-Pro toped both charts. But last week's winner wasn't far behind as many Blu-ray owners are not hesitating to pick up Rambo -- we can't say we blame them. Paramount's long awaited titles didn't to too bad either, taking the number four and five spots on the chart and accounting for almost 50 percent of the title's overall sales. Next week we expect both DVD and Blu-ray to be up as Jumper is sure to move the needle, and we'll be waiting to see if it can muster more than 12 percent of the share away from DVD like Rambo did its first week out.
Filed under: Blu-ray
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
WebDev511 @ Jun 14th 2008 12:34AM
Overall DVD and BD sales down week over week, albeit only fractionally for BD. Hopefully we'll see some pops during the weeks of more anticipated releases. (and when Universal stats adding to the pool of available titles.)
mntwister @ Jun 14th 2008 1:06AM
With Paramount in full swing, Universal up to bat next, all of the studios will be releasing. Big summer boxoffice this year coming in the 4th quarter along with some big catalogs, and sales like Best Buy and Walmart's $100 gift card with any player and recent sales from most stores on software, plus the intoduction of the $298 Magnavox player, I think the wheels are going to start really turning in the fall, when people are done spending on summer activities and are going to start thinking of staying home for the winter months. Plus the 2.0 players coming out, starting at only $399 (possibly a $299 sale price for the holidays). Already the Samsung 1500 which will be 2.0 with a firmware upgrade is only $349 at Walmart. I predict there will be a few sales of blu-ray players at $199 this holiday, and I think the studios (such as Disney with Sleeping Beauty) and electronic manufacturers are really going to give blu the big push. And from what I have heard, 2009 is going to open the floodgates for desired catalog titles.
I am optomistic on all counts and need/want to be. I don't want to settle for compressed downloads or pay per views or streaming, I want to buy my movie at 1080p and enjoy the lossless soundtracks. I think we've had enough of lousy compression in picture and bigger compression with sound.
Nfinity @ Jun 14th 2008 1:16AM
You are free to spend money on it. Nobody is stopping you.. obviously you are in a high minority.
Until they drop prices and increase volume.. This format ain't going anywhere but down.
Mark @ Jun 14th 2008 6:46AM
The format is obviously expanding. Signs are everywhere from plants installing additional capacity to stores substantially increasing the racks of movies in the format. Anyone who claims it isn't growing clearly isn't looking.
Mike @ Jun 14th 2008 8:16AM
Wake me when the 2.0 $120 players are available.
It sucks the movie studios wouldn't back the affordable player and now we have to wait a couple years for BD to get in the same price range.
DrXym @ Jun 14th 2008 9:36AM
Mike, and of course it was so different for DVD right? Why do you expect CEs to be selling players at a loss?
Mike @ Jun 14th 2008 6:57PM
DRX,
DVD didn't have the same type competition BD had...the divx players had to be accessable to a phone line so it could access your account and see if you paid to watch movie yet...it was going to be pay everytime you want to watch that movie or pay a 1 time lifetime fee to have unlimited access.
Divx was doomed from the start. When they came out no way I would go divx as too much hassle...but HD DVD vs BD I would go BD if it cost less as HD and BD aren't that much different.
DrXym @ Jun 15th 2008 7:03AM
Mike, DVD had competition. It had competition in VHS and laser disc. And DIVX since you mention it. DVD was horribly expensive compared to VHS but the price sunk and after 2 or 3 years it reached below $200. I really don't get why you think Blu Ray is magically exempt from following a similar price curve. You haven't explained why a CE (e.g. Samsung) should even be selling a player below cost. The fact is that players will get cheaper over time. Yields improve, components get cheaper, economies of scale kick in, etc. and the prices drop. You'll see at least 1 players hit $200 by Christmas (properly, not through a $100 voucher) and plenty more will do so next year.
mntwister @ Jun 14th 2008 1:08AM
Oh and I also predict the Toshiba super upscaler player is going to be the 2nd big embarassment Toshiba is going to have to deal with. You cannot make prime rib from hamburger. A source that is 480 lines cannot be made to look like a blu-ray transferred at 1080p. Sorry.
Nfinity @ Jun 14th 2008 1:14AM
Why do you talk about something that you haven't seen.. why?
It is possible.. albeit it's not going to be 1080p for sure..but it certainly looks 10 times better then the best DVD upscaler now.. it's completely impossible to even classify the two together.
First see it then comment. Seriously, because you are just showing how fanboyish you really are when you are unwilling to accept anything that is good even though it sounds impossible but it isn.t
Try to be open minded. Overall it's a GOOD thing for all of us that they are bringing this to the market.
HD4ME @ Jun 14th 2008 3:01AM
Link??
SimbaDogg @ Jun 14th 2008 3:52AM
Nfinity...
you talk too much
Nfinity @ Jun 14th 2008 3:53AM
Link for what?
Nfinity @ Jun 14th 2008 3:58AM
Simba.. I talk simple facts and you as others just show you complete ignorance.. how can you peoople a right mind judge something most of you haven't even seen... do you see how that is completely ridiculous? Just because you THINK completely uneducated how and why things are possible. This technology is pushing everything ahead lightyears. Not only that it will enable DVDs for example to be almost as good as full HD it allows 1080p HD to go almost double as well.. based on the same principle and engine.
Get a grip kids seriously... You just prove that you are don't really appreciate technology at all but that you are just a bunch of silly Sony fanboys.
Nfinity @ Jun 14th 2008 4:13AM
HD4ME
here you go.. Audioholics are talking about the same demo I saw when I was at CES early this year.
http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/toshiba-cell-broadband-video-processor
Mark @ Jun 14th 2008 5:50AM
Super resolution will work like the Video Enhancer tool but in real time. Video Enhancer does interpolation and frame analysis to produce high res content. The result is moderately better than just interpolation on its own but no one would mistake it for proper HD. No one is going to rebuy a DVD player or shun a proper HD player just for this feature. I think Toshiba would be better served by putting this into a BD player where it serves as a decent selling point.
DVD4ME @ Jun 14th 2008 8:40AM
Nfinity, I was asking Mntwister for a link, he was busy saying Toshiba's plans are impossible, i just wanted to read the link he was getting his information from, obviously he knows something Tosh doesn't!
Truth Teller @ Jun 14th 2008 11:11AM
* quote
mntwister
A source that is 480 lines cannot be made to look like a blu-ray transferred at 1080p. Sorry.
=====================================================
Don't apologise for your terrible 480 line standard def US TV.
It's your problem, not ours.
Just don't go assuming it's the same everywhere else.
The PAL countries all have 576 line standard def TVs and we've had 16:9 widesceen TVs for around a decade.
It's why the difference between high def and our SD upscaled is not so great.
In 480 line SD TV America the difference between standard def & high def is obviously that bit better.
Tho clearly it's not so great as to have people rushing to adopt high def (at the price demanded) as some would have us believe.
WebDev511 @ Jun 14th 2008 1:34PM
It doesn't have to upscale to 1080p, 720p will suffice for people with TVs that are 50" or smaller. Yes, I think we're all well aware that super upscaling a poor source doesn't make it look better.
With the current economic situation, I'd call 5% growth in BD sales month over month a win and I fully expect DVD sales revenue to continue their downward trend.
Truth Teller @ Jun 14th 2008 5:08PM
* quote
WebDev511
With the current economic situation, I'd call 5% growth in BD sales month over month a win and I fully expect DVD sales revenue to continue their downward trend.
=====================================================
What 5% growth?
These weekly numbers continually show a falling or flat market.
Besides, the comparison is bogus.
The Blu-ray market is overwhelmingly 'weighted' towards early adopters only too willing to buy at launch prices.
The DVD market in stark contrast is a mature and huge market with an enormous section within it that resolutely refuse to buy at launch prices.
Spiza @ Jun 14th 2008 8:14PM
Now that we get weekly percentages, you can calculate how BD is doing overall. The baseline is the week ending 4/20. You have to decide where to put a week like the one ending 5/4.
I came up with Blu-Ray down 7.5% in May, up 12.2% so far for June, and up only 1% overall since April. The weeks in April were being carried by AVP2 and Juno, so not so strong. Of course, we only have 1 week for June so far.
Mike @ Jun 14th 2008 8:48AM
Those photos at audioholics looked good...would like to see a 3 way split to see bd next to the super scaler pic.
But I would rather pay $100 for a Toshiba superscaler that makes my entire DVD collection look 95% HD...then pay $200 for a magnavox bd player that doesn't look that much better...the wait for the $50 2.0 players in a few years.
I will wait t see both the BD and superscaler side by side showing same movie before i make final decision though. The superscaler looks promising in the mean time.
SimbaDogg @ Jun 14th 2008 8:58AM
seriously...this is stupid. and please dont say "maybe you should see it before you pass judgement on it" think about it...the idea for this tech is stupid
if toshiba does release something like this...the earliest they'd probably be able to get it out would be, maybe holiday season 08. you MIGHT be able to find some sub $200 2.0 blu ray players for sale, whether it be a black friday price, super sale price w/ a gift card (kinda like the current walmart promo), or just regular price for an off brand unit.
Think about it, the cost of this unit, due to the cost of the cell processor alone would easily command 100-150 dollars. I think people once explained the difference between, well...an upconverting player and a true HD outputting blu ray player would choose to spend the extra 50-100 dollars and in all likelihood have a upconverting player as well.
$200 blu ray/upconverting player > 100-150 dollar upconverting player
Truth Teller @ Jun 14th 2008 9:02AM
Don't be so blinkered & silly Simba.
The idea for the Super Upconverting Toshiba DVD player is anything
but "stupid".
No matter how much the PS3/Blu-ray fanclub want it to be otherwise the facts are that DVD will be around and taking the vast majority of software
& hardware sales for many years to come.
That's even if Blu-ray's showing was better than this continual
underwhelming disappointment.
It makes perfect sense in those circumstances to continue to offer
ever-improving DVD players
(and at least try to be consistent, PS3/Blu-ray fans, where's the absurd bile aimed at Oppo and their new better upscaling unit, eh?).
The facts are that Super Upconversion closes the gap even further
between upscaling and Blu-ray.
We already know large sections of the public have no interest in
paying the current expected high premium for that difference (between
current upscalers & Blu-ray).
If the new Toshibas come in at a reasonable price (say mid DVD market
levels......something like the Pioneer DV400/600/610 area) then they
are going to sell very nicely.
We also await other manufacturers jumping aboard (Sharp already has).
The fact that it works with everyone's existing DVD collection is the
big killer.
The other part of the equation being missed is that this 'spurs
engine tech' is going to be built in to HD TVs.
.....and no point whining at Toshiba for doing this either, as I said, Sharp
have already licenced this tech and they won't be the last.
So long as they get the pricing right then Super Upconversion is set
to spread & be very popular.
No point complaining about it.
Blu-ray is going nowhere but further up the irrelevant PS3 high margin niche.
......and it's backers only got itself to blame; this has all only come about because of their obvious determined greed.
mntwister @ Jun 14th 2008 9:32AM
The fact is I really think some people posting here (the usuals) underestimate the intelligence of the consumer who has purchased a high def tv. Sure, I can see this Toshiba player doing ok, but I don't think most people who spend alot of money for a high definiton television are going to buy a 2nd upscaling player when they can have a true high def player for slightly more money (and by the holidays it will be "slightly"), I think they will spend for the blu-ray true high definition player, after all they have spent many over a thousand dollars for their hdtv, why not $199 to $299 for premium pictures on it?
Heck, if the Toshiba upscaler proves to blow me away, I'll buy one for my dvd's which have not been yet released on blu-ray, but you can bet I will be re-buying my collection in true high definition...
And..what about the sound? Does the Toshiba player magically turn those HUGELY compressed dvd soundtracks into lossless? Can they connect to the internet for special features(which are not on any dvd's), have picture in picture features and stunning menus like hd-dvd and blu-ray do?
Listen, I respect other people's opinion, but I must say here that Truthteller and Nfinity and several others, when hd-dvd was here, were all for it with a passion and when it lost, blu-ray was not an option for them, now they are very excited about the upscaling players from Toshiba....you guys are accusing anyone who likes blu-ray of being a fanboy but doesn't that make you Toshiba fanboys? You guys must not be true movie lovers if you can't understand people wanting one format that will give us true 1080p high def with lossless sound to succeed. It's sad that all the video fans are not united for at least that. I never had any anti-hd-dvd bias, I purchased blu-ray first because I like Disney movies and they were releasing alot more movies with lossless sound (I am really into lossless soundtracks, compressed dvd were actually awful in comparison with little comparison to a studio master) and more movies than hd-dvd did that interested me.that's why I went blu...not because I worship Sony or the PS3.....but why there are people that are so anti-this and that and wishing the death of the one good remaining high quality format is really beyond me. I for one love my dvd collection and many titles will take years to get to blu-ray, so I plan to look at the Toshiba upscaler for those until I can replace those dvd's with a blu-ray.
Case in point: Fox's recent released of The Sand Pebbles, Patton and Longest Day. The video transfers are new and better than the dvd, so upscaling the old dvd's will never make them look like these new transfers no matter how good the Toshiba upscaler is. And, when I listen to Jerry Goldsmith's fabulous score for Sand Pebbles, or the soundtracks to the other films released on blu-ray (Longest Day, ect) I am hearing an exact replica of the studio master and they sound absolutely stunning compared to the very compressed dvd soundtracks. Movies are being remastered again for high def disc, and there are thousands of movies on dvd that never got special editions (where they were remastered) that have sub-par transfers and some with very bad transfers and look very bad. How can you upscale these old transfers that were never transferred properly in the first place? This is why I don't see the new Toshiba upscaler as a replacement for high definition disc.
Truth Teller @ Jun 14th 2008 10:44AM
@ mntwister
Don't go getting carried away with that nonsense about uncompressed audio.
Besides a relative handful with the kit to actually appreciate it properly no-one cares, the rest are obviously deluded or just lying about it.
Similarly the difference you see between upscale, upconversion and high def are differences which (when the cost premium is considered) too few really care much about either.
Generally speaking people like films, some people like to collect films but only a minority really devote themselves to the whole 'home cinema' thing.
For a vast number, at the end of the day, it's still 'only' TV, whether it's an HD TV or not......
......and I see far too few here are prepared to admit that a lot of high def is not that great either.
I've seen some very ordinary looking Blu-ray movies & HD DVD movies on 40" - 50" HD TVs.
(but then we are talking about a PAL country where we at least start from 576 lines to upscale & not the awful 480 line US standard def TV)
It might be an idea to try to stop guessing about how low in price you imagine Blu-ray players are going to be too.
You guys have been so wrong about this all this year.
After HD DVD left the scene Blu-ray prices went up not down.
We are only now just hearing talk about Blu-ray prices coming down cos the Blu-ray side are terrified that it really is all just going to fail badly (hence the move - unconfirmed - to licence to China which even a couple of months back they said they would not be doing any time soon).
Nevertheless we still await anything concrete.
There's also no point bringing HD DVD up into this either.
It could have simply taken DVD's place (thanks to excellent pricing & things like Twin discs & combos - something Blu-ray can never have unless they make peace with the DVD Forum) but it's gone and not coming back.
The industry preferred the supposedly 'high security' high margin product.
Well, they're stuck with it now.
Fortunately the consumer is showing the good sense to ignore it.....
......as these weekly numbers prove only too clearly.
XDragon @ Jun 14th 2008 1:19PM
TT, you're just wrong about prices.
I can't bother to argue any other comments with you because you won't get it or don't care to get it.
The point is, the PS3 is still the best Blu-Ray player and the price has not gone up; there's even been the $100 gift card bonus at Wal-Mart which Best Buy was matching. Older players have gone down in price and Blu-Ray movies are also coming down in price and having many sale options which are even better then the price reductions. To say prices went up is simply you're lack of effort to shop around. Don't argue my point because if you do, you're beyond a lazy idiot. And don't give me your bs about your pov or opinion because you're wrong regardless of what you "believe" and any person that spends a few mins shopping online knows it.
Truth Teller @ Jun 14th 2008 1:25PM
No need for opinions XDragon and you can pretend the PS3 is the 'mainstream' key to the mass-market all you like.
But it's rubbish and you know it.
The stats here show it only too clearly, week in week out.
Blu-ray is doing no spectacular growing whatsoever.
(and that's even with the gradual rise in PS3 sales over the last 6 months)
XDragon @ Jun 14th 2008 1:27PM
You didn't even read my post did you?
I'm arguing your comments about price which you're wrong about. I don't care about your other points because you're allowed to have an opinion even if its not exactly the same as mine.
joe @ Jun 14th 2008 1:44PM
Mntwister- Nfinity may have spounted a great deal of diaherea during the fromat wars but what he is saying makes a great deal of sense now.
There is no reason for anyone te not like this new super scaling technology.
It's a really good idea and it's awesome that toshiba figured out how to pull it off.
It's also not going to eat into BD much if at all. While fans argue here about wanting to rebuy catalog titles I don't get the sense that studios really want to remaster the past, for certain high selling titles maybe but for the most part no.
BD is really about selling the future. The CE manfacturers and Studios never really wanted you to rebuy all your previous library in HD. I doubt that they make much money on it. They want you to buy all of the new releases in HD.
This leaves a big opening for a technology that can make all of the old stuff look much better. Thats all. Just like not every movie that was on VHS made it ti DVD not all DVD's will be on BD.
It's pretty simple and the time based interpolation is a solid idea based on years of research.
You are really being made to look foolish by Nfinity. This is not a good thing for you.
SimbaDogg @ Jun 14th 2008 3:54PM
@joe
sorry but the stuff being said by truth teller and nfinity it still plain or diarrhea.
i'm in wide acceptance that blu ray is the hd format that came out on top, but dvd is going to be here to stay for many people, in many countries, for a very long time. here's the thing: if people are given the options between a player like this from toshiba and a common blu ray player, i think they'll make the more sensible choice.
the thing is, many people on this board, avsforums, audioholics and other forums may buy a new dvd every year, or every few months if there'sa new kickass unit that just came out. but the avg person in america (only place i can speak for from experience) does not. the avg person in the us keeps their stereo system 10+ years. when people buy electronics, they buy them until they drive them into the ground...then they will upgrade.
i'm sure if nfinity or truthteller were working as salespeople...they could show the highlights of this super upconversion tech...and make the sale on it. but in all honest, any person w/ even the slightest bit of reasoning would say, you know what...i think i'll go ahead n' drop the extra cash for a unit that does nearly the same thing (upconvert) w/ all my current dvds and will be able to play true hd discs on my tv. consumers when given all the facts really aren't that stupid.
in all honest the stab in the dark at price that i made at 100-150 was in all likelihood a huge underestimate. considering that the cost of the cell is likely to be in the 80-100 dollar range even come this fall when IBM switches to a 45 nm process, there's gonna have to be a huge upgrade to powersupplys and the main motherboards...the price even at the very cheapeset may be 175+ bucks for a super upconversion player vs maybe 200 come holiday season for a blu ray. i dont mean to be captain obvious...but that IMO, is a no brainer for the avg consumer.
DrXym @ Jun 14th 2008 4:19PM
Truth Teller, sorry baby but super upconversion is a glorified upscaler. Very few people are going to buy another DVD player to get this feature. Not least because the feature is still vapourware but also because a pseduo-HD player is no substitute for a proper HD player.
Of course I look forward to when this player eventually appears and you and Nfinity are bragging how your DVDs look almost like HD movies. You'd have to pretty stupid to actually prefer a pseudo HD player over a proper one when the price differential is so slight.
Truth Teller @ Jun 14th 2008 5:42PM
* quote
XDragon
I'm arguing your comments about price which you're wrong about.
=====================================================
Oh I see.
OK, so the fact that there is not a range of supposedly 'final spec' Blu-ray players available at less than $400 is "wrong" is it?
Where are these cheap profile 2.0 Blu-ray players?
Go ahead, show me the range of regularly priced profile 2.0 players then.
************************************************************************************
*quote
DrXym
Truth Teller, sorry baby
=====================================================
LMAO, the brain-dead feeble attempts to bait go on. Pathetic.
************************************************************************************
*quote
DrXym
but super upconversion is a glorified upscaler.
=====================================================
Yeah, cos you'd know.
Read the patents have you?
No, you have not
(otherwise you'd not be still trying to push that ludicrous "glorified upscaler" BS).
Seen it have you?
No. You have not
(unless you wish to now tell everyone you were at CES 2008 and have just kept it a secret until now?).
Did you know NASA use exactly the same technique in studying star-field imaging?
Clearly, no.
You're slamming a tech as if it doesn't work or only produces minimal results without knowing the first thing about it......and you have the brass neck to say other people here are "stupid"!?
************************************************************************************
*quote
DrXym
Very few people are going to buy another DVD player to get this feature.
=====================================================
Got next weeks lotto numbers while you're doing your Nostradamus impersonation too, eh?
I'll wait and see just how keenly they price it......if their current range of DVD players is anything to go by (and the history of HD DVD) it's going to be very competitively priced.
************************************************************************************
*quote
DrXym
Not least because the feature is still vapourware
=====================================================
No. 'Vaporware' would be something that is not yet in existence, a mere theory.
These players have been demo'd in public.
Just because these players are not yet on sale does not mean that patents etc have not been lodged (they have) and the tech licenced (already to Sharp, actually)
Fail, again.
************************************************************************************
*quote
DrXym
but also because a pseduo-HD player is no substitute for a proper HD player.
=====================================================
Well we'll just have to wait and see about that.
Although if Blu-ray standalones aren't selling (and they are not), but DVD upscalers are (and they are), then we'll just have to see how a keenly priced & much better performing DVD player fares.
Particularly while Blu-ray relies upon a game console & a handful of grossly over-priced standalone.
Good luck with the POS Daewoo et al turning that around.
************************************************************************************
*quote
DrXym
Of course I look forward to when this player eventually appears and you and Nfinity are bragging how your DVDs look almost like HD movies.
=====================================================
The truth so few of you guys is prepared to admit is that the difference (at least in PAL Europe) between upscale & high def is hardly vast as it is.
Super Upconversion closes that gap even further
(and we can reasonably expect it to do it at DVD prices).
I suspect a lot of people are just not going to pay the heavy premium for a 'feature' that is barely much different at all.
I suspect a lot of people are going to love the fact that this tech works beautifully with their existing DVD collections and any inexpensive DVDs they buy in future.
************************************************************************************
*quote
DrXym
You'd have to pretty stupid to actually prefer a pseudo HD player over a proper one when the price differential is so slight.
=====================================================
....and you're fooling no-one
(except perhaps yourself.....do you really believe this cr@P?)
with this laughable BS about a narrow price gap.
So, go ahead & tell us all.
The Panasonic BD50 is how much?
(hint a hell of a lot more than some of you guys - even those claiming to be 'in the business' said it would be)
The PS3 is how much?
The Super Upsonversion players are how much?
We already know how expensive Blu-ray is, as for the Toshiba players we shall have to wait a little longer & see.
....you sure as hell have no clue about it tho.
But considering we have seen no sign of the $300 and certainly no sign of the $200 Blu-ray player so far (the occasional coupon deal or one off stock clearance sales on dead models excepted) I have to just laugh at your delusion/blind confidence.
Wake us all up when brand name profile 2.0 Blu-ray players hit $150 or less
(cos I reckon on the Toshiba Super Upconverters being around $100, which is about where their top-of-the-line DVD players are now)
That seems a hell of a lot more realistic a guesstimate than your laughable day-dreams and continual predictions of cheap profile 2.0 Blu-ray players coming any day now.
SimbaDogg @ Jun 14th 2008 5:53PM
Truth Teller...
shuttup...u talk to much. i think everyone here shouldn't even bother to respond to your comments. I haven't seen anyone champion a lost cause (hd dvd) or blindly route for a yet to market tech (...this) so hard in my life. I swear, you are more hardcore about toshiba products than Terry McAuliffe was about hillary clinton being the democratic nominee.
I saw him on a cable news channel, and then on the daily show w/ jon stewart 1 day before south dakota and montana primary...and obama only needed like 30 delegates to secure the nomination...but he kept on going on and on, and on about how he was confident voters would rise above and cast their votes for hillary and she'd be the nominee come november. you wouldn't happen to be related would u?
Truth Teller @ Jun 14th 2008 7:26PM
Yeah Simba, of course.
Wen you've no place left to go in the face of the facts all you got left is the same old tired ad hominem BS, eh?
It all comes down to a pointed (in one direction only) "shut up" and closing your eyes, pressing your fingers in your ears as hard as you can and shouting that old 'la la la la' mantra to keep out that pesky old awkward reality.
Hilarious.
Awesome advice for a message board.
FFS.
DVD4ME @ Jun 14th 2008 8:29PM
@Mntwister
Quote....."The fact is I really think some people posting here (the usuals) underestimate the intelligence of the consumer who has purchased a high def tv. Sure, I can see this Toshiba player doing ok, but I don't think most people who spend alot of money for a high definiton television are going to buy a 2nd upscaling player when they can have a true high def player for slightly more money (and by the holidays it will be "slightly"), I think they will spend for the blu-ray true high definition player, after all they have spent many over a thousand dollars for their hdtv, why not $199 to $299 for premium pictures on it?"
So, how do you explain then that BR sales are only at a ridiculous 1% of total market sales after 3 years in the market place and the attach rate for stand alone BR players to HD TVs is 1 in 53 ??
XDragon @ Jun 14th 2008 10:23PM
Ok TT read again!
You said price went up and I said they didn't!
Stop putting words in my mouth and going on tangents.
The PS3 is the best Blu-Ray player right now and the price has not gone up. Why is that so difficult for you to get!? There's even been the $100 gift card bonus with a PS3 so if anything, prices have remained the same or gone down! Movies have also gone down in price so don't respond with more unrelated crap. Stop wasting my time!
SimbaDogg @ Jun 14th 2008 10:34PM
The thing i dont understand about everyone saying, "please...just give it a chance" (sounds like a rip from a lennon song), is a lot of these people are the same ones who for months called sony and many other companies in the BDA money grubey robber barrons that weren't looking out for the public.
I like blu ray, i'm not gonna lie...the capacity of the disk is huge, and i plan on getting a blu ray burner for my comp to start backing up tv series to 50 gb and 25 gb discs. But does anyone HONESTLY think that toshiba is doing this for the well being of the customer? I mean, lets for arguements sake say that this unit comes in at 200 bucks....and say during this holiday season the least expensive blu ray unit 2.0 or not, is going for 250...does it really benefit a consumer to buy a 200 dvd player that does "near hd" upconversion when they can get the real deal hollyfield for a mere 50 bucks more which will do the same thing, plus truly output HD?
I mean, if anything it sounds like another company trying to line its pockets. If toshiba really wants to help the consumer do some research (they're a HUGE company) into cutting the cost of blu ray diodes and other components, and price a blu ray player on the market that really stirs up competition.
I beg anyone to seriously justify that for me...knowing how often people actually buy electronics, it looks like nothing more than a case of toshiba "trying to get mine"
mntwister @ Jun 14th 2008 9:04AM
I never stated I was saying facts, my statement on the Toshiba upscaling is opinion, thus I left no link. You don't call people out for links for their opiunions lol. I never said I wasn't going to give the processor a chance and take a look at what the Toshiba player can do either...
Please don't put words in people's mouths, like you (certain) guys always do when someone feels optomistic about blu-ray disc they must be a fanboy or a PS3 nut...For God's sake get over that attitude already, it's really sickening to many readers. I like blu-ray, its quality and its advantages..that does NOT make me drool or bow down to Sony or worship a PS3 and stating so just makes you look very foolish many times over.
DVD4ME @ Jun 14th 2008 8:20PM
@Mntwister
Quote....."You cannot make prime rib from hamburger. A source that is 480 lines cannot be made to look like a blu-ray transferred at 1080p. Sorry"....unquote.
That is a staement of fact, not an opinion, so no point bitching and saying people are putting words in your mouth.
You and the rest of the BR herd have dismissed Toshibas new tech without even looking at it, quote... "You cannot make prime rib from hamburger",unquote, ... let me tell you, every day the grocery chains sell old mutton as prime spring lamd and cheap Chinese carp as Snapper, and the punters don't know the difference!
How about reserving your damning judgments until AFTER you know anything about the subject!
Fred @ Jun 14th 2008 9:48PM
I just want to say one thing, make it two, nah three.
1. People with HDTV's do not know simple stuff, so please never ever say that we under-estimate the public, their was a poll and it showed they don't even know what Blu-Ray is.
2. Now one huge problem with the theory of comparing the change from VHS to DVD is the same as DVD to Blu is that VHS were bulky tapes with limited capability and DVD revolutionized watching movies. Now going from DVD to Blu to most people is not much. So better picture, which up-scalers are doing and connecting to the internet and get extras does not appeal to most. How many people buy DVD's and don't watch any of he extras. A lot.
3. Blu has a lot of things now currently working against it. Way to high of prices for the players and the movies themselves. I am not paying 30 dollars for any movie, when Bioshock is on sale right now for 30 dollars.
Economies are going down the tube with gas prices soaring. I still think regular DVD's are too much money to buy.
So what am I saying, money makes the world go round and Blu and DVD are selling junk at high prices in pinching times. BLU needs to cheapen up if they want to be mainstream.
Truth Teller @ Jun 15th 2008 7:44AM
I'd say that's largely correct Fred
(tho a condescending attitude towards the general public will always come back to bite you hard if you get too carried away with it).
Polls have shown that a worrying proportion of the public (both in the USA & here in the UK) think that the pending analogue switch off and the move to digital TV signals is something to do with moving to high def.
phanbouy @ Jun 14th 2008 10:14PM
ahem.
now for a break from your regularly scheduled fanboy war...
Semi-pro? really? #1? not only is that not worth owning but i can't think of a title more needless for hi def.
Spiza @ Jun 15th 2008 12:09AM
The Jackie Moon commercials were better than the movie.
DrXym @ Jun 15th 2008 7:18AM
I'm surprised how well Patton is doing. Great movie but I didn't expect it to be #2. Especially when Cloverfield was out the same week.
Truth Teller @ Jun 15th 2008 7:42AM
* quote
XDragon
You said price went up and I said they didn't!
=====================================================
Actually they did.
You're just pretending that the PS3 is the be-all and end-all of everything Blu-ray (which, rather ironically & funnily enough, is another one of it's major problems)
within hours of the HD DVD defeat Sony (on their own official website) increased the price of their S300 player by $100 from $279 to $379.
It's currently $389 on Amazon USA.
The S301 (Profile 1.1 'bonus view' model) is $439.
Those are just the facts.
************************************************************************************
* quote
XDragon
The PS3 is the best Blu-Ray player right now and the price has not gone up. Why is that so difficult for you to get!?
=====================================================
What's so hard for you to understand that for vast numbers of the adult a/v market they do not have and never will have any interest in a kids game console?
Who cares if the (expensive) PS3 has moved in price?
It's not a standalone player and never will be.
$400 (entry level model) verses $100 - $120 for a decent upscaling DVD player!?
Yeah right.
************************************************************************************
* quote
XDragon
There's even been the $100 gift card bonus with a PS3 so if anything, prices have remained the same or gone down! Movies have also gone down in price so don't respond with more unrelated crap. Stop wasting my time!
=====================================================
A one-off holiday season deal or coupon, or the occasional BOGOF does not reflect the regular day-to-day reality.
Sorry and all and you can pretend it does all you like but as the numbers (despite being skewed in Blu-ray's favour by the kind of sampling they use - ie the 'use' of new release sales numbers) continue to show it just doesn't.
You can claim Blu-ray & the PS3 are the best thing ever to everyone all you like but the general public are just passing it by & they are buying upscaling DVD players and DVD in huge numbers still.
Blu-ray is invisible, over-priced & far too reliant on an expensive kids game console.
.......and as noted elsewhere in this thread a lot of people think the move from analogue to digital TV signals think that is about high def.
XDragon @ Jun 15th 2008 8:30AM
You still can't keep on topic. You're pathetic.
You said prices went up and they haven't.
I don't care about your other opinions but you can't keep to a simple conversation.
The point is, the best player has not gone up in price and you said Blu-Ray has gone up in price since HD-DVD died.
You also make people believe that the movies have gone up in price and thats simply not true acrross the board. If you are a reasonable shopper, you will find the movies for pretty cheap and thats without any sale! Just off the top of my head of the most recent purchases, National Treasure 1 & 2 were $20 each, Batman Begins is $20 on pre-order. There's a huge list of peremenatly price reduced movies but I'm not going to flood this post and you know its true because others have flooded other articles with them.
For the record:
"You're just pretending that the PS3 is the be-all and end-all of everything Blu-ray (which, rather ironically & funnily enough, is another one of it's major problems)"
-I'm not pretending anything, it is currently the best player dispite being a game console as well.
"within hours of the HD DVD defeat Sony (on their own official website) increased the price of their S300 player by $100 from $279 to $379.
It's currently $389 on Amazon USA.
The S301 (Profile 1.1 'bonus view' model) is $439.
Those are just the facts.
What's so hard for you to understand that for vast numbers of the adult a/v market they do not have and never will have any interest in a kids game console?
Who cares if the (expensive) PS3 has moved in price?
It's not a standalone player and never will be.
$400 (entry level model) verses $100 - $120 for a decent upscaling DVD player!?
Yeah right."
-So what, I could care less about a player that i'd never buy. The reason the PS3 is also better is because its upgradable and not just for Blu-Ray features. You're not thinking when you posted this because who would spend $439 on a 1.1 player when you can spend $399 on a 2.0 player that also can play video games and can be a media hub? Who cares if you don't want to play or buy PS3 games, its still the cheaper and yet better product for Blu-Ray playback and DVD upsampling.
$400 is not entry level, its the best player period. It doesn't have to be a standalone player to be the smart buy, just because some people may not be aware doesn't mean people don't buy it for Blu-Ray. I do agree that they need to have cheaper options but that doesn't change the fact that the price hasn't gone up on one of the only players worth buying.
"A one-off holiday season deal or coupon, or the occasional BOGOF does not reflect the regular day-to-day reality."
- As i said, offers like this are opportunities for even lower prices, not raised prices even if it is a timed sale.
"Sorry and all and you can pretend it does all you like but as the numbers (despite being skewed in Blu-ray's favour by the kind of sampling they use - ie the 'use' of new release sales numbers) continue to show it just doesn't.
You can claim Blu-ray & the PS3 are the best thing ever to everyone all you like but the general public are just passing it by & they are buying upscaling DVD players and DVD in huge numbers still.
Blu-ray is invisible, over-priced & far too reliant on an expensive kids game console.
.......and as noted elsewhere in this thread a lot of people think the move from analogue to digital TV signals think that is about high def."
- just more of your unrelated comments that have nothing to do with mine as you need to make tangents to try to sound like you have a point. Try staying on topic next time!
XDragon @ Jun 15th 2008 8:43AM
Further more, your claims of people not wanting a game console as a "player" are rediculous. Thats an opinion not a fact. I know a rediculos number of people who have bought a PS3 for Blu-Ray and they don't play games. Some of them decide to pick up te odd game to see what its about and a lot don't. Even better, look at the PS2 and tell me that lots people were'nt buying it as a dvd player. I know so many parents that didn't have a dvd player and actually bought a PS2 to kill 2 birds with 1 stone and many of them still only have a PS2 for DVD playback. As I said, you're entitled to your opinion but don't state your opinion as fact and don't link to some loser's article that backs up your opinion if it doesn't have real numbers attached to it.
This site must love you because of all the traffic you generate with your ludicrus comments. Too bad they aren't smart enough to realize that its starting to turn poeple off from coming here.
Truth Teller @ Jun 15th 2008 9:40AM
You claimed Blu-ray players had not gone up in price and I proved they have.
All you did was point to the (expensive) game console and ignore everything else.
Then you pretended the PS3 is selling incredibly well outside of the game console arena.
(which, if that were true, merely makes it's position as well & truly bolted into 3rd place selling game console even more tragic)
Of course it isn't, as it's poor sales numbers show
(and don't try holding up 1 or 2 months numbers as an indicative trend of anything).
BTW try not to contradict yourself, if I'm 'generating traffic' (please, as if) then how is that turning people off?
.......and besides, if contrary facts, views & opinions really are so nasty & terrible so as to really stop some people coming here then maybe a fanzine site (the laughable joke that is Blu-ray.com?) is more their scene anyways?
Spiza @ Jun 15th 2008 11:12AM
Hey truthiness, do you think toshiba would not have raised their prices even though they were subsidizing?