http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/ Engadget HD Comments for CNET's HDTV picture settings database takes the edge off calibration http://www.engadgethd.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadgethd.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
But, its like trying to tune up a sports car, right. You can afford the car, but not the maintenance. :)]]>Jun 3rd 2008 6:39AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
However, the outrageous cost for "professional" calibration]]>Jun 3rd 2008 9:03AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
However, the outrageous cost for "professional" calibration is just that....outrageous.

How will Geek Squad ever continue to sell their $300 calibration plan?!?!]]>Jun 3rd 2008 9:04AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/Jun 3rd 2008 11:08AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/Jun 3rd 2008 6:58AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/Jun 3rd 2008 9:04AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/Jun 3rd 2008 9:23AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/Jun 3rd 2008 10:21AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/Jun 3rd 2008 10:37AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
I think it would help tremendously if all manufacturers included some built in test patterns and a "walk through" menu for setting up the picture. Not as good as truly calibrating, but darn sure would have more HDTV's displaying a "better" picture than they are now!
]]>Jun 3rd 2008 10:37AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
I know it's free. I'm not complaining, just stating my opinion on their settings. ]]>Jun 3rd 2008 10:39AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/

Plus....it's great to be able to e-mail those settings to people that don't calibrate at all. Anything is better than watching a TV that someone that doesn't know what they are doing tried to calibrate. ]]>Jun 3rd 2008 10:55AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/"Starting for scratch???" Anytime you make adjustments to you TV, you are techinically starting from scratch. Purchasing a $20 calibration disc like Digital Video Essentials and make adjustments using the disc takes the same amount of time as plugging in CNET's settings, and then tweaking. The difference is that the DVE approach gives a more accurate image, and gives you an understanding on how close to ideal you are and how far off you were. While the CNET approach may or may not give you accurate results, and you have no way to tell otherwise.

$20 is best 2% investment one can make for a $1000 HDTV.]]>Jun 3rd 2008 12:59PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
It's kind of like someone saying that a resource hosted BY AOL is good. Sure, maybe it's great but just the name taints it.

Not sure if everyone has seen the website that compiled statistics from CNETs reviews but it was pretty obvious they LIKED 95% of everything they reviewed and LOVED 4.9% of the remaining.

]]>Jun 3rd 2008 11:16AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
You know that Engadget is an AOL Time Warner company, right?]]>Jun 3rd 2008 11:53AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/Jun 3rd 2008 12:48PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
I find that the CNET settings are pretty close to right. I would much rather input them before going to the DVE test patterns than go straight from factory settings to DVE. Maybe it's just a personal preference, but, none the less, I find some value in CNET's numbers.

Plus, I would MUCH rather e-mail friends that don't calibrate their sets those numbers than let them use by DVE disk and have to field a dozen questions on how to use it. But, again, personal preference. ]]>Jun 3rd 2008 1:27PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
Internal electronic components have a variance, so you don't always get the same result in the viewing room.

Viewing environment's are different, and most people don't watch TV in completely dark rooms, although that's really the ONLY way to watch a movie.

And the most major issue is that most connected devices have their own settings for "front panel controls" like color and "picture" or contrast. So each component PRODUCING the video signal is a little different in level and implementation.

A legitimate professional calibration doesn't just calibrate your display with one input and nothing else. A legitimate calibration sets your "system resolution" correctly making sure all components (BD player, scaling in your AVR, etc.) are optimally set to certain standards. God forbid you have some synergy.

Regarding other non-legit professional methods, such as our nations largest CE dealer - Best Buy. That Geek Squad garbage is a waste of time and money. Those installers/calibrators are trained by some Best Buy individual to do what corporate tells them to do, and to accomplish the most number of “tweaks” in an afternoon. They're not legit ISF although they sell it as such, and they wouldn’t know how to setup an audio system if their pathetic job depended on it. Sadly, they do use all the correct gear (Sencore), they’ll just jack up your display in the service menu anyway. ]]>Jun 3rd 2008 1:46PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/Jun 3rd 2008 6:48PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/ISF calibrators complaining about BBY offering ISF calibration are just bitter that the general public are going to be aware of something that was previously just known and respected within the A/V community. God forbid many HDTV users have accurate, reliable TV's that save energy!!!
This guy is like the guy who grew up in Berkeley, CA and was into Green Day when they first got together and put out 7"s. Now that guy is bitter because everyone knows about the band that he knew about before everyone else.]]>Jun 4th 2008 12:33AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
You seriously can't be speaking for your entire company (I believe 904 stores now, 400 of which have a disastrous MHT department?) when you ask if I've been into a Best Buy Home Theater department lately and seen some demo comparing out of the box settings to a Geek Squad calibration? Are you?

I've been to those Best Buy stores, and I've entered the user menu (and service menu), and jack squat is changed. As if the difference wasn't noticeable from 7 feet away.

Brag about your own merit and what YOU do, because isn't BBY the same company that proudly used to feature HDMI composite video cable comparison for your beloved Monster Cable products on a 17” LCD? Gosh, that’s convincing. There are a great number of sad demonstrations within the largest electronics dealer in the country, and like Wal-Mart, quality control is last on the list. They send people into the stores each week just to make sure the gear is turned on, much less, making a difference.

If you actually care about the A/V industry, go work for a medium sized regional electronics dealer (or better) who integrates quality gear into customer’s homes, and makes a difference. Because those Geek Squad calibrations are not making any difference, as compared to simply putting the TV into Movie/Cinema mode. Face it, they’re just there to bring profit margin back to the flat panel business. What, did you guys stop selling extended warranties?

Besides the point of this post was speaking to CNET's video settings and yes, CNET's settings are better than torch mode out of the box. A legit calibration thought (not using a store feed of SD ESPN and fiddling with the remote) is a totally different beast.
]]>Jun 4th 2008 1:55AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/I'm sure that you've gone into stores and looked at the service menus of the TV's we have on display that have been calibrated. I'm sure you have, yup, really sure. Tell me another one. I've personally seen several displays in the stores calibrated. How can you possibly get off saying that they are not legit ISF calibrations when they are? Even you acknowledge that we use the correct gear. So I guess we are illegally using the ISF logo on our brochures and our uniforms then, huh? The ISF doesn't give their stuff away. You know as well as I do that one needs to be certified and pass a test to become an ISF calibrator. This is what BBY spent hundreds of millions of dollars to do for our installers. I've seen it done, I am very well versed in the process. You cannot try to fill an afternoon with these, as you say. You should know the process takes an hour and a half to two hours on average. We're looking for quality, not quantity here.
As far as your HDMI/composite video comparison, get your CE retailer right: Circuit City does that. I couldn't care any less about Monster Cables, they're far from "beloved". Quality control is very tight where I work, after all, would you buy a Pioneer Elite PDP or purchase a pair of $3000 speakers if you were not able to see the picture or audition them, respectively? I think not.

Once again, someone bitter that a larger company has decided to take notice of a niche market of higher end customers who demand an excellent experience. You can't possibly think that BBY would just decide to carry products from Pioneer Elite and Martin Logan, to name a few, and not have people knowledgable and experienced to back it up? If so, you better run and tell BBY corporate that they are just sitting on millions of dollars of inventory of high end flat panels, speakers, and amps that will never sell!
Find me a BBY/MHT ISF calibrator that uses a store SD ESPN feed and the calibrated TVs remote to do the job and I'll find you a million bucks. Until then, don't open your mouth too wide unless you actually know what you are talking about.]]>Jun 4th 2008 2:47AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
So I hope your store is selling the hell out of those Geek Squad (or by it’s old name: Elite Services Specialist) calibrations, and ARE competitive with the quality calibrators there in Connecticut. I have an idea. Tell your boss Matthew that you promise to sell more hyped Geek Squad installations than quality neighboring Connecticut calibrators like Kevin Miller at isftv.com (who is affiliated with CNET and Home Theater magazine). If you do well this week in sales, you should get a Ruby Tuesday gift card from the Buckland Hills Mall, or at least Saturday off. Silly Andrew.

Speaking of quality calibrations (and by the way, based on our conversation today over the phone regarding the Geek Squad calibration, you’re clearly selling on price as compared to quality or experience) do you think that just because your ESS guy carries around a Sencore generator and a colorimeter, he knows how to calibrate a system to Rec709 or even SMPTE-C standards? You think he understands calibrating an entire system as well as a guy who uses Minolta Chroma meters, Accupel generators, optical comparators, and has been ISF certified since 2000? Yeah sure, I bet your customers are receiving the same quality calibration as someone like that. Silly Andrew.

In your above post you mention that Best Buy wouldn’t carry decent gear (and I do love the KURO displays) if they didn’t have people who were knowledgeable in regards to the product. We won’t mention the joke customer service that is offered in Best Buy. If you want direction in the store, they’re good for that. If you want someone to read some text off a fact tag, they’re good for that. And if you [are a vendor and] want someone to “close the deal” by selling a complete system, well, you’ll have to go somewhere else for that. (And yes, we all know that you’re not on commission.) Silly Andrew.

But let’s talk about MHT in the case of knowledgeable associates for a moment. There hasn’t been a corporately supported MHT WAVE training in almost 2 years for the department, and the stores get zero training that is organized or controlled by the vendor community. Based on that, it’s left up to the individuals punching the clock to fend for themselves. Currently the MHT training situation is made up of individuals, passing around tribal Indian knowledge they learned from the person who they are replacing or who hired them. Is this legitimate product knowledge? Gone are the PowerPoint trainings in the mornings with breakfast delivered by a factory guy, replaced by employees saying things to each other like, “I’ve heard this and I’ve heard that. But the FatHeadTVGuy on some forum said...” Silly Andrew.

My post won’t change your mind, and will probably only spur you to sell more Geek Squad calibrations. I’m excited for your company because you’re bringing on Control4 training to installers, Russound training for distributed audio, and bringing in other quality vendors. As a part of the vendor community, the future looks good for Best Buy. Of course, the future is good as long as you ignore the majority of Best Buy Home Theater personnel who don’t know what the hell their talking about, and just ARE WORKING TO PICK UP A PAYCHECK. Which are naturally the majority of blue shirts. Silly Andrew.

This CNET post, like a lot of things, is great exposure for the art of calibration, or is at least opening doors for improving picture quality. Do I sound like I’m some bitter old calibrator that’s upset because some big corporate retail chain has commoditized the calibration market? Nah, because I’ve seen a handful great customers come across my doorstep or inbox (not my ideal customer, but oh well), looking for someone to legitimately calibrate their TV which was screwed up by someone from MHT or a renegade sales person. Silly Andrew.

NOTE: I’ve seen jacked up TVs posing as calibrated models at MHT locations in Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Tampa, Marin, Reno, Denver, and Boston. Although I’ve never been to your store, I’m sure it’s remarkably different.
]]>Jun 4th 2008 6:19PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
Joel Silver used to train 100% of the Elite Service Specialists at MHT. At least he trained the first batch. But not any more. It’s done by either some former MAV guy or a corporate trainer, trained by Joel.

And did you know that your guys don’t have the (ACP6500) Auto CalPro hardware to calibrate ISFccc products? Which of course are sold at MHT. So they can’t unlock the ISF Day and ISF Night modes, and log in their calibration data. Those Geek Squad guys instead have to reprogram a display preset from “Movie” or “Standard” to the calibrated correctly. Gosh, I guess we can throw out the window, "getting the most out of your HDTV."

Additionally, a displays threshold for black is totally independent from it's ability to produce accurate primary color points (of SMPTE-C or Rec601/709). Nice try though, and it was fun hearing you dance.

But you’re right, it’s all the same. ]]>Jun 4th 2008 6:59PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
First things first, the fact that you wasted your time to not only call me at my place of business but track me down (based on IP address, I can only assume) and find out not only where I worked but the name of my supervisor displays several things about you. One, you must have an obscene amount of time on your hands. Two, flexing your e-muscle must bring you boatloads of satisfaction. I hope you are just savoring this. I can just see you now, wallowing in your own pathetic glee because you clowned a 28 year old who works at Best Buy/Magnolia. Eat it up, live it up, laugh it up. You're pathetic. It is people like you that give audiophiles and videophiles a bad name. Three, you're a bonafide creep. Anyone who takes time out of their day to hunt someone down in real life over a discussion that could have been civil had you not gone ahead and drove it headon into the ground has got some rather serious issues. I believe it is referred to as an inferiority complex. Your actions have proved just how bitter you are. Your comments have contradicted your scathing remarks directed to BBY/MHT/GS. You go from utterly trashing them to praising them for using Sencore equipment and having the founder of the ISF train the Geek Squad installers.

I sincerely hope that you're day was made by your cyberstalking and your phone call to my workplace. You are a waste of time, a distraction, a pathetic shell of a person, a creep, and need to get a life. There are more important things to worry about than if Andrew from Best Buy/Magnolia mispoke about color accuracy and how it relates to black level. Anyone who was any bigger than you would help a fellow out rather than criticize them. You're small and weak. I stand by my comments that you are bitter because it is abundantly clear that you are bitter and then some.
And in case you are wondering, ISF day and night can be unlocked, I have seen it performed.
Additionally, lets be honest. The vast majority of people shopping for and purchasing TV's now are and will not be concerned with ensuring that their TV is in line with SMPTE-C standards. That is Greek to them. But they are looking for is an accurate, high quality image that uses less power than a uncalibrated display. That is what ISF calibration will do for them.

I'm not even going to address your training comments but I will share with you that I thoroughly enjoyed the Sumiko S.E.T. training that BBY/MHT paid for me to attend last year.

I knew it was you when I spoke to you on the phone. Not immediately, but the thought did cross my mind. The conversation was eerily similar to your previous postings on this blog. Just like any other high and mighty, insecure video/audiophile who enjoys making others feel inferior out of pure enjoyment, you started the conversation off with seemingly innocent questions that led into pointed comments about the ISF, our calibrators, and other things. You couldn't even properly cover your tracks. Yeah, you fit that pathetic mold to a T. I could give you some harsh advice but I'm a better man than that. Enjoy your little, meaningless existence. May your future days be filled with fleeting satisfaction of showing salespeople how much you know and belittling them because they are not you.

For the record, I've never received a Ruby Tuesday gift card. ]]>Jun 5th 2008 12:45AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
But he did do a job at it, I must say.]]>Jun 5th 2008 1:42AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
Thank you for a well-mannered discussion both on this board, and over the phone yesterday. Looking you up based on an IP address? I am just reading raw text on a blog board. There’s no IP here, at least none that I can see.

Regarding your quote, “vast majority of people shopping for and purchasing TV's now are and will not be concerned with ensuring that their TV is in line with SMPTE-C standards.” You’re right again; it’s the job of the calibrator to pay attention to standards, not the customer’s job. Isn’t it the customer’s job to figure out what is the better value for their money, and make a buying decision? And no one is putting gasoline in his or her TV, so although it’s true, don’t make such a big deal about the power saving issue. That’s kind of a company line.

I didn’t intend to cover any tracks today, and if I weren’t a few time zones away I would have stopped in to see you and Matt! You and I covered the topics that I wanted us to cover. Next time, ask more questions, and then you’ll be in the conversational drivers seat. Isn’t that part of the CARE process? I believe it’s letter “A”. By the way, how was down-stocking at the end of the day?

As far as the SET training, they had to do that so Best Buy doesn’t loose the product line. Remember what happened to Primare? They’re doing the same thing with Martin Logan. Training one MHT person per district on a specific product line, when employee turn-over is at record levels, isn’t exactly a personnel accomplishment.

Thank you for your time and energy. Good luck on the gift card. Just be patient.
]]>Jun 5th 2008 2:28AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
It is clear you are intimitely familiar with MHT/BBY, so much that I can almost assume that you work there or have in the past, the latter being more likely. Bitter about losing a job perhaps? I can only guess. I sure as hell ain't gonna get all Sherlock Holmes of the digital age and hunt you down online like you did to me.]]>Jun 5th 2008 5:35AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/03/cnets-hdtv-picture-settings-database-takes-the-edge-off-calibra/
Don’t worry about people contacting you at MHT, I’m sure you make new friends all the time. You’re a friendly chap! If you’re really curious about how things went down, let’s play a game of multiple guess.

1. Someone hacked your new Verizon Wireless phone and used the VZ Navigator to take over the world!
2. A over zealous ex-girlfriend wanted to get you back for that crappy dinner at Red Lobster, and she told me where to find you.
3. It was the butler!
4. Or, maybe you could just go back and read some of your past posts online, because it was you leaking out info about yourself.

With the number of MHTs that I visit in the course of a year, I’m sure we’ll bump into one another down the road. And if so, I’ve got nothin’ but respect fo ya bro.

And by the way, you're posting at 5:35 AM, 2:47 AM, 12:33 AM, and 12:45 AM? Wow! Get some sleep! I’m on the west coast, so that's my excuse, but geeze. You must watch a lot of Ambien commercials in Standard Definition.
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