Denon has introduced the DVD-1800BD Blu-ray player to the low side (relatively speaking) of its lineup. As we've seen from high end
makes lately, this unit continues the trend of a Profile 1.1 feature set at a price point that's sure not to "dilute" the brand luster. The DVD-1800BD is expected to ship in October with an MSRP of $749. Depending on whether you're a "glass half full" or "glass half empty" sort of person, it's $450 cheaper than the next-up-the line
DVD-2500BTCI (pictured) or $350 more expensive than a PS3. Either way, it's pricey for Profile 1.1 player that does not have onboard decoding of DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD (but does output the bitstreams). We might cut this unit some slack if it were shipping immediately, but an October date makes us think this will be for Denon loyalists only.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Nfinity @ May 22nd 2008 8:12PM
What I really find intersting is how people who were screaming last year that Blu-Ray prices will go down to competition find justification for this?
Every article about a new Blu-Ray player is ultimately compared to ONLY 1 units. The Playstation 3.
As far as I can see, there's absolutely NO competition here. That's why prices are high. All companies are competing with Sony's PS3. What's the incentive for anyone joining the market to introduce the player when Sony has a unit that is completely monopolistic in that regard.
Just look at this example. Who's gonna buy this. Who's going to buy ANY Blu-Ray player for that matter. So what has been said that Toshiba was doing wrong, that's EXACTLY what Sony is doing with others. At least Toshiba had 3-4 models to choose from with Blu-Ray, CE companies have to again drop the prices to the level they could've made HD DVD players for. It's completely idiotic. And from consumer point, a person wanting fully featured Blu-Ray player has no choice but to buy a GAME CONSOLE.
It's funny. and people call me hypocrite. Jeez.
SimbaDogg @ May 22nd 2008 11:26PM
numbnut? wow...bringing it back with that one. where did they loose the 7 billion from, not from just their PS3 division? because every figure that i'v seen has said they're just over 2 billion as of 6 months ago.
EVEN if they did, the way the gaming industry is structured is a hell of a lot different than dvd players. gaming machines for generations have been known to be sold for a loss, where they really make up their money is in licensing (with the exception of wii this generation "last gen" hardware). so when you look @ the ps3, it can make money back in the company in the form of video games, and blu ray disc sales. looking at the toshiba, they only had one front to recoup their money from, hd disc sales.
oh by the way, i'm guessing you're not paying attention. i said if toshiba did win, they would have with almost certainty raised their prices. i'm not arguing that sony hasn't, that much is fact. but seriously, read the post before you get your panties up in a bunch
Leonardo DiCrapio @ May 23rd 2008 1:13PM
Nfinity, I was as big a HD DVD backer as you during the format war, but the format war is over. Get over it. I have pre-ordered a Pioneer Blu-Ray Player (the BDP-05FD). It is much more expensive than what I was planning to spend, but I am going to be happy to replace my RCA HD DVD player in a few months (street date is early August) in the $700 price range. The Pioneer isn't 2.0, but who cares? I mean really, I just want to watch (see and hear) movies in Hi-Def (Video and Audio)
I could have gotten a Sony Blu-Ray player that internally decoded Dolby Digital Plus, DolbyTrueHD, DTS-HD HR, and DTS-HD MA for about $500, but I decided that IMHO the Pioneer was going to provide the best picture and sound. I am planning on running video through component and audio through the analog outputs (I currently have a 5.1 system but my non-HDMI receiver can handle 7.1, so I may just buy two more identical bookshelf speakers for the side/back).
The Denon is also an upscale player (like the Pioneer). Oppo sells a $400 DVD player (the DV-983H). I personally own an Oppo DV-970HD DVD player (which cost $150 about a year ago) -- I could sell it now (on EBay) for $100. The Denon is also supposed to do a good job at upconverting. If I hadn't pre-ordered the Pioneer already, I probably would look at this because the price is reasonable for the product.
Gus @ May 22nd 2008 8:16PM
I think it would be very scary to be a BR standalone player manufacturer at the moment. These players are just so ridiculously over priced and under specked, who the hell other than a very tiny minority is buying in to these products.?
A worldwide recession kicking in, massive competition from DVD itself, lots of competition from competing formats and the PS3 with 95% market share and in all reality, the only BR player worth buying (f you don't mind having a games console in your AV rack.)
Scary times indeed.
Gus @ May 22nd 2008 10:42PM
I was being serious, HD DVD has nothing to do with it, I'm sure they would be struggling now as well if they were still going, the comment regards the survival of a product in a seriously competitive niche market, I just cant see how many BR producers can foresee a sustainable future in the SA player market. The niche is flooded with BR players really and they are all way to expensive, and lets be honest here, the product is not exactly setting the world on fire.
The PS3 is destroying the SA market, maybe 1 or 2 SA producers can survive, but the current level of sales V supply must make for some very nervous BR manufacturers........... of course DR XYM will be here shortly to call me a dumbass because BR is taking the world by storm and sales are skyrocketing, but the rest of us out here in the real world without the tin foil hats on know times are tough.
Gus @ May 22nd 2008 11:04PM
Ummmmm, I guess that comment is aimed at Simbadogg?
Nfinity @ May 22nd 2008 11:11PM
Deeznutz actually..
Gus @ May 23rd 2008 12:01AM
@deeznutz
"Trust me, I'll be the first in line for all your "I told you so's" next year if BD is a total failure.".................... You've put your nutz on the line now, can we have an official day and date when we can belt you??? :)
Achilles @ May 22nd 2008 8:25PM
It's Denon so I'm not surprised that it's out of reach for the average family. Expensive like most. No surprise here to me so the lack of sales shouldn't surprise Denon.
ccweems @ May 22nd 2008 11:39PM
Only idiots can read anything into this. A mid-range Denon DVD player is $850! Maybe a $750 BR player is a good deal on planet Denon? To bitch about high BR prices from premium CE manufacturers is pure idiotcy - but then you got to look at the commenters on this thread...
Gus @ May 23rd 2008 12:05AM
We are talking about prices in general, but I guess that was above your intelligence level to work that out, moron.
DrXym @ May 23rd 2008 10:19AM
Denon, Marantz, Pioneer are traditionally expensive kit. Complaining that a Denon player is $750 is just stupid. It might be a crappy player for all anyone knows, but it's still Denon, i.e. expensive.
As for players in general, there will be players as low as $200 by Christmas and brand names occupying the $250-$350 region. As astounding as it may seem, virtually all the deals and price cuts happen in the bottom half of the year. Amazing but true.
But please Gus & Nfinity, please rant away some more. It will make you look all the more foolish in 2 or 3 months when the prices predictably and obviously start to drop again.
Dirp @ May 23rd 2008 4:28PM
Denon USED to be high end, they cater and sell more to the low end Best Buy specials and such. Pioneer was never high end, they just priced their Elite units as such. Marantz has always been high end, period.
Either way, a 1.1 player that doesn't support all the audio formats is dead int he water *today*, let alone October? By then we should be seeing 2.0 players that have more bells and whistles than a PS3 used as a player.
These players need to get down to $150 pronto.
Gus @ May 23rd 2008 10:53PM
Xym, you continually, post after post, quote imminent price drops, predictions of massive sales spikes, etc, etc, but not once have you supplied a link stating facts.
Instead of continuously waffling on about what YOU THINK MIGHT happen, how about some facts, or at least quote that in your opinion 'X" might happen, instead of continuously spouting shit and trying to convince everyone it is fact!
DrXym @ May 24th 2008 5:24AM
Gus, actually dimbulb I have cited the DVD player sales figures going back to launch multiple times demonstrating that player sales increase 2-5x in the latter half of the year. Here it is again for you to pretend it doesn't exist or matter.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/cemadvdsales.html
Of course you shouldn't even need a chart to figure this out. It should be obvious people do not spend much between January and May.
JDS @ May 23rd 2008 10:46AM
To all complaining about Blu-Ray player prices...there will be eleven Chinese manufacturers, including TCL, Malata and Desay authorized by the Blu-ray Disc Association to produce Blue-Ray discs, CDs, and disc players next year.
http://www.zdnetasia.com:80/news/har...2041652,00.htm
Chinese companies authorized to produce Blu-ray products
By Staff, ChinaTechNews
Friday, May 23, 2008 10:24 AM
Eleven Chinese disc manufacturers, including TCL, Malata and Desay, have been authorized by Blu-ray Disc Association to produce Blue-Ray discs, CDs, and disc players next year.
According to president of Blu-ray Disc Association, each of the manufacturers has now turned to BD development since Toshiba's withdrawal from the HD DVD camp in February this year and BDA's member number has increased to 187 while that of International DVD Forum has decreased to 163 from 240.
It is estimated that the demand for consumer electronics and computers adopted with BD technology will reach 5.3 million this year and top 11 million by 2009.
Gus @ May 23rd 2008 10:59PM
Great news, looks like BR has bitten the bullet as plan "A" has failed miserably. Lets hope that finally BR is addressing the price issue, god help the Japanese producers though.
There you go Xym, some facts for a change, you should try it some time.
HD4ME @ May 24th 2008 12:52AM
That link leads no where, more BS from the BS that is BR.
DrXym @ May 24th 2008 5:42AM
Great, two dummies who can't figure out how to find another link to the same story. We just need Truth Teller now to wildly rationalize why all of these Chinese manufacturers are a good thing for CH-DVD.
http://www.chinatechnews.com/2008/05/23/6782-chinese-companies-authorized-to-produce-blu-ray-products/
Nice spin by the way. Of course no one ever pretended that Chinese manufacturers were shut out. For example Gowell has been working on a number of OEM designs for a some time.
http://www.gowellent.net/productweb/video/Blu-Ray.html
JDS @ May 24th 2008 8:07AM
HD4ME
Here the link again:
http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/hardware/0,39042972,62041652,00.htm
Not sure why the original link stopped working but I did included the entire article in my post as well.....not quite sure where your "That link leads no where, more BS from the BS that is BR." comes from......over react much?
Spiza @ May 23rd 2008 10:58AM
Gus and his artificial inflation of post scores.....
Gus @ May 23rd 2008 10:56PM
Spiza, h4idol in drag.
Spiza @ May 24th 2008 2:00AM
Coming from the guy who artificially votes up his own comments.....
ericw @ May 23rd 2008 1:16PM
While I agree and am disappointed that blu-ray players are still as expensive as they are...have complainers looked at Denon's other offerings?
The DVD players (that's right--NOT blu-ray) top out at $3800!!! (5910CI). Denon is not aiming for the Walmart (or even Best Buy/Circuit City) crowd. The least expensive MSRP of a Denon DVD player is $169 with most at $369 or above.
Nojoke @ May 23rd 2008 2:46PM
You have got to be kidding! Another 1.1 profile player with a MSRP @ $749.00. So much for the hype of Live Blu-ray this & that experience. So, when the manufacturer's start dropping the 2.0 profile players on the market, where will the MSRP $$$$$ start. I keep being patient and hoping for the 2.0 players to make an entry at a reasonable price, but it now seems it will be a LLLOOONG wait. Guess I just have to continue buying those low priced HD DVD's for the Toshiba A30 player for the next 2 years. Surely.
Sammyfan @ May 23rd 2008 3:49PM
I'm guessing Bluray doesn't expect me to jump in this fall. Or this year. The funny part is that I'd like to, player price permitting, if only to Netflix BD movies. I love the hell out of the quality of HD-DVD movies and I'm not too proud to watch a BD movie. Still, I want it to be a 2.0 player. I can't help but think the network "update-ability" would be an important factor given how crappy most BD players operate.
JDS @ May 24th 2008 8:20AM
http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6563664
Electronics specialists expect Blu-ray to outpace DVD sales
By Susanne Ault -- Video Business, 5/23/2008
MAY 23 | High-end consumer electronics retailers expect set-top Blu-ray players to begin outselling DVD players by August, as a wave of new models eases current supply problems.
Since the format war ended in February, demand for BD players by early adopters has been higher than that for standard DVD at Ultimate Electronics, Crutchfield and Bjorn’s. But there has been too little BD product available for the retailers to realize the format’s potential. The stores believe they should finally have adequate supply by August, as Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Philips and Pioneer will be launching new BD set-tops.
Samsung’s first picture-in-picture model, the BD-P1500, rolled out at Best Buy this month, and should spread widely at retail soon. Sony’s first BD-Live player, the BDP-S350, and Panasonic’s first BD-Live model, DMP-BD50, will hit stores in July. Pioneer’s BDP-51FD and Elite BDP-05FD, the manufacturer’s first picture-in-picture models, are expected by the July-August frame as well.
Manufacturers, including Panasonic, have said that production hasn’t kept pace with demand because the war ended sooner than expected.
“People have been waiting weeks for Sony players, but it should get better later in the summer,” said Rick Souder, executive VP of merchandise at Crutchfield. “In August, it will be the first time that Blu-ray overtakes [standard DVD] sales for us on a unit basis.”
For some time, revenue on relatively higher-priced BD set-tops has trumped standard DVD at Crutchfield. Currently, the dollar split is 60% Blu-ray and 40% standard.
Besides consumers’ growing confidence in this one high-def format choice, retailers note the February 2009 digital TV transition also is sparking interest in Blu-ray.
“I think HD of any kind is experiencing a lift, as people become more cognizant of the DTV transition,” said Matt Duda, Ultimate Electronics merchandising director of video. “People wonder if they need a new TV, and it’s a great time for retail to capitalize on that. Just getting that footstep in the door is a great way to educate consumers about all high-def products.”
Ultimate Electronics’ BD revenue will surpass that of standard DVD for the first time by August, projects Duda. On a unit basis, BD sales still trail standard DVD at Ultimate.
“There should be a healthy supply by August and [manufacturers] should be caught up in production,” said Duda. “You’re getting five to eight new [BD] players in the market, and you’ll see Blu-ray catching up with standard DVD.”
The retailer is already planning to roll out in-store seminars about the new Panasonic players, as they will represent some of the first set-tops that can access Web content.
With this hardware ramp-up, Bjorn’s will be moving virtually all BD players within its home entertainment area. The upscale San Antonio superstore expects to shift from 70% BD unit sales/30% standard to 90% BD/10% standard by the end of the summer.
Bjorn’s recently carved out a Sony-branded store-within-a-store boutique. But Bjorn’s currently isn’t offering any Sony players. Also troublesome, Bjorn’s owner Bjorn Dybdahl and his team are fond of pumping profits by selling high-def TV and BD hardware together. But the retailer hasn’t been able to offer these bundle deals for much of this year.
“Everyone is trying to assure us the supply is going to get better,” said owner Bjorn Dybdahl. “Right now it’s a hindrance.”
DrXym @ May 24th 2008 10:11AM
"Electronics specialists" being the operative word. I doubt Blu Ray players will outsell DVD players in most conventional places for some time, but there is no doubt that sales will increase considerably as the holiday season takes hold.
JDS @ May 24th 2008 8:39AM
http://www.blu-raystats.com/NewsLog/2008/05/23/blu-ray-player-news-bd-live-chinese-players-expected/
Blu-ray Player News - BD Live, Chinese Players Expected
Via Format War Central you can read that Video Business is reporting that high-end consumer electronics retailers expect set-top Blu-ray players to begin outselling DVD players by August. Also revealed is that the Sony BDP-S350 and Panasonic DMP-BD50, will hit stores in July. Both are reportedly BD Live capable players.
Over at ZDNetAsia we read that eleven Chinese disc manufacturers have been authorized by Blu-ray Disc Association to produce Blu-Ray discs and disc players next year. Interesting to note this article states that the BDA’s member number has increased to 187 while that of International DVD Forum has decreased to 163.
We also see that Home Media Magazine summarises the players coming to the market, including the Daewoo BDP-1000 (pictured) and 2000 BD Live capable players with 1080p 24 mode, 1 GB of storage, SD Memory Card slot and HDMI 1.3, due in the fall. They also list the Panasonic DMP-BD50, two Sony’s (BDR S350 and S550) and the Playstation 3 for BD Live capability.
For Bonus View players they list the two Pioneer (BDP 51FD and 05FD), the Sharp BD-HP50, Marantz BD8002, the Philips BDP7200, Sylvania NB500, Samsung BD-P1500 and the Denon 2500, along with a quick summary of features. Well worth a look.
We also read via Digital Bits that Denon is considering a Blu-ray player with SACD and DVD-Audio multichannel playback.
All in all is it pretty easy to see that there will be quite a range of players to choose from and from the VB article it is pretty clear to see that at least the player market has quickly become a nice money maker for the consumer electronics industry, having already overtaken the saturated DVD player market with respect to revenues.