Ask Engadget HD: HD projector or HDTV?
"I'm about to move into my new apartment and I've got big plans for the entertainment system. However, I don't know whether to go with a HD projector or a HDTV (LCD, plasma, DLP, it doesn't matter). I only need 720p because quite frankly, I can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p; plus 720p is cheaper! I realize that both have their pros and cons (size, mobility, inputs, cost, etc.), but I just can't determine which would be better. I'd love some actual recommendations from both sides to consider."
Time to get your arguments in order, folks. Should this guy go beamer or flat-panel? Let us know which (and why) in comments below.
Got a burning question that you'd love to toss out for Engadget HD (or its readers) to take a look at? Tired of Google's blank stares when you ask for real-world experiences? Hit us up at ask at engadgethd dawt com and keep an eye on this space -- your inquiry could be next.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
J.Goodwin @ May 21st 2008 12:06PM
In an apartment? Flat panel.
You're not going to have the space (unless this is a phenomenal apartment) to put in some sort of soundproofed darkened home theater piece de resistance here, and there's no need to do it. Chances are good that you're not going to have more than a ten foot viewing distance (if that), so just choose an appropriately sized LCD, and put the other thousand bucks in your pocket.
steedums @ May 21st 2008 12:21PM
agreed. go with a projector if you have the room to dedicate and have some light control. otherwise, go flat panel. I went projector for my basement, but have an LCD upstairs where its bright
WebDev511 @ May 21st 2008 12:29PM
+1 on on the "if you have space for a projector go for it" but I haven't seen too many apartments that are suitable for them.
It also sounds like money is an issue, so if you want a big 1080p screen, go DLP. (The LED Samsungs are very nice) Doing so will get you a lot of screen for a lot less than LCD or Plasma. Of course they are a whopping 14" deep, so you you might not have space for it.
Joe Maki @ May 21st 2008 12:29PM
I have both, 50" DLP and 100" screen. Projector is great for movies and HD TV after sunset. The 50" is the default for watching cable and OTA. Analog looks bad on the 50" and 4x worse on the projector :)
Jazper @ May 21st 2008 12:48PM
Panel, of whichever variety/brand floats yer boat.
The odds are that using a projector means cables everywhere since you probably won't be digging into the walls and/or ceiling to setup this up pretty.
However, if flat out size is the most important factor the projector wins hands down assuming you have a nice big wall to splash things on...
okeygrak @ May 21st 2008 12:55PM
Go with the projector. Turn down the lights and pop in a Blu-Ray Porno. It is a religious experience.
lakersin2025 @ May 21st 2008 2:09PM
That is comedy right there!
cclaunch @ May 21st 2008 12:58PM
Whenever someone asks me I always tell them this:
This will not be the last display you purchase. So this LCD you're about to buy will work great in your bedroom 5 years down the road when you get your next display "upgrade".
Jon @ May 21st 2008 1:01PM
Right now i go with a 60" Sony XBR2 SXRD .. and a 40" Samsung lcd .. but my Dream has always been a dedicated home theatre room with a SXRD projector .. But the future Wife has promised me my dream when we build our house in the next few years ...
kcjones @ May 21st 2008 1:05PM
If you have a secondary TV for watching the local news, sports updates, etc, have 100% control over lighting, and willing to ceiling mount the projector, go for the 2 piece projection system. If you answer NO to any of the above, then you should stick with a RPTV or flat panel HDTV.
Josh Haagen @ May 21st 2008 1:16PM
If you can make it dark enough the projector is the best option. We have a $1000 720p optoma projector giving us 127" and even with a viewing distance of around 12' it look absolutely amazing. The only real downside to a projector (if the room is dark) is the extra set-up and necessity of a sound system. Keep the cost of wiring (good wires for the longer distances) and audio in mind. But then even with a flat panel you should get a sound system as all of their speakers pretty much suck.
bobtheHDbuilder @ May 21st 2008 1:26PM
You probably will not have room for a 100"+ screen, nor will you want to purchase replacement lamps at $400+ each. As others have said, unless you can greatly limit the amount of light entering the room, you'll also be disappointed in your projector purchase. Go with a higher end, older model 720p plasma, you can find them on the cheap, have a much better picture than LCD or DLP, and be wall mountable (saving space).
Zorkwiz @ May 21st 2008 1:28PM
I have had DLP projectors in my place for years, but I use my Sharp Aquos LCD much more. If you are really planning to use this display like a theater and have a room with enough throw distance and that can be darkened easily, then go for the projector. You'll love the immersion and the massive screen sizes that you can realize.
If, however, you plan to use the display every day for TV and/or games as well as movies, then I would consider a 46-50" newer LCD or plasma. With the projector, I somewhat worry about the bulb life if I have it on for hours and hours at a time, and it's scary to think that it could blow at any time (however unlikely) and I'd be out $250-350. If you go for the projector option, try to find an extra bulb offer on-line. My current BenQ came with the extra bulb and I am still on my original, so I don't worry about it anymore.
Mr. E @ May 21st 2008 1:50PM
Um, from reading the original email, are we sure he (or she) is not talking about flat panel versus RPTV? I know we generally assume that "projector" refers to front projection, but given the evidence, I'm inclined to believe that "rear projector" was what was meant. I mean, (1) Apartment and (2) 720p are what make me think this. Anyone should be able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p at 100+ inches!
So my answer is based on the assumed question of flat panel versus RPTV. I vote for RPTV, and here's why: For a given screen size, RPTV is always going to be cheaper than the equivalent flat panel, significantly so in the larger sizes. RPTVs have been getting thinner and thinner, to the point where either of them on a table or stand will be perfectly acceptable aesthetically, in my opinion. I own a 70" DLP RPTV, and I love it.
One thing to consider in the 720p/1080p decision is scaling. Most sets seem better able to scale 720p to 1080p, rather than 1080i to 720p. I would personally shoot for a 1080p RPTV, if you can afford that (and it will still probably be cheaper than an equivalently sized 720p flat panel).
Mr. E @ May 21st 2008 1:54PM
Never mind. I just reread it and it's definitely FP versus flat panel/RPTV.
Without carefully controlled lighting, you should stick with RPTV.
Jake @ May 21st 2008 5:28PM
Shockingly, nobody has demanded that this guy buy and HD-DVD player!
Kevin G @ May 21st 2008 2:06PM
LCD panels are still not dark enough. black levels on plasmas are still the best. if you go flat panel, get a plasma from pioneer elite, panasonic or samsung. if you want the biggest screen for the money, go rear projection DLP, samsung is the best. 61" or 70" 1080P is the best bang for the buck, as long as you don't mind the depth (which is really not much when you think about it. you can even get a 50" that's only 10" deep!).
120" screen with an optoma 720p is a great setup, but only if you can get the room dark, and it helps if you know your way around a 5' flex-auger drill bit and a fish tape.
desmodromic @ May 21st 2008 2:12PM
I'm a big fan of projectors, but they do have their drawbacks. If you have decent light control (heavy drapes or good blinds) and plan to do most of your watching at night, there's nothing like a wall-size TV, especially for movies.
You'll want a really bright projector - I recommend the Panasonic PT-AX200U. With 2000 lumens, it's a real light cannon. It's so flexible, you can even mount it on a shelf at the rear of the room instead of hanging it from the ceiling.
You can project right on the wall if it's flat white and fairly smooth, or you can do what I did, and tack up a 4/8 sheet of foamcore ($15) with a velvet border for a super-cheap screen.
Come on over to avsforum.com and check out the projector discussions and the DIY Screen section for more info.
good luck!
Patrick @ May 21st 2008 2:39PM
Go with plasma. You're moving into an apartment, not a house, so a pimped out home theater system should still be a pipe dream (unless, of course, you've got skewed financial priorities, or if you don't care about your neighbors). As far as I'm concerned, picture size is the ONLY advantage to a projector. Everything else...mobility, picture quality, ease of use, you name it...is better with a flat-panel. And despite what many people think, plasma still gives a better picture (not to mention cheaper cost per square inch) than LCD.
Nfinity @ May 21st 2008 2:40PM
EPSON 1080UB projector is SUPERB! It's an unbelievable experience that rivals real HD TVs. With 80-106" Elite or basically medium grade screens with gain at around 1.8 white (depending on the viewing distance) you will be super satisfied. Surely this EPSON is $3k but it's one of the best projectors that I"ve seen. If you need to save money for around $2k Panasonic AE2000 is second in line quality wise but Epson has superior brightness.
For an apt, if it's small you wouldn't want to go more then 50" HDTV anyways so it's really a no brainer. It all really depends on the size of your space.
Not a band geek @ May 21st 2008 2:43PM
I created an account to mention this because I've never seen anyone else do so. Like some are saying RPTV is the way to go because of the already mentioned reasons, but also because this person (renting an apartment) probably wont be wall mounting this TV. And if you don't wall mount it, you'll have to set it on something, and the piece of furniture will likely be as thick or thicker than the included stand, so there just went the thin premium that you paid for. Plus, there's a 90% chance you're going to be connected some kind of A/V component to this display, which also will be placed on the stand and take away any thin advantage.
Bill @ May 21st 2008 3:16PM
The decision is all about screen size first and foremost, and room lighting next. How big of a screen do you want? The bigger the better in general, but it's all about how much room you have and how far away you can sit. Once you decide your screen size, then choose technology based on price and quality. For really big screens (75" +), front projectors make a lot of sense, as long as you can control the room lighting. And at those sizes, you WILL see a big difference going 1080p vs 720p. Try to go 1080 if you can. At 50" and below, 720 will look fine.
If you find yourself settling on the 50-60 inch range, a rear projection unit will give you a lot of screen for the dollar. I second the recommendation for the Samsung LED DLPs - they are terrific.
LCD flat panels are all the rage, and they are quite nice, but they do get pricey above 46". If you go that way, get a Sammy or a Sony. You'll be quite happy.
Bill @ May 21st 2008 3:19PM
I have the previous generation Epson 1080 in a dedicated home theater room, projecting on a 106" Da-Lite hi contrast screen, and the picture quality is SUPERB, particularly from Blu-Ray on my PS3! My guests say it looks like I have a massive plasma hung on the wall. Sometimes I have to point out the projector in the rear of the room and they are surprised.
Jake @ May 21st 2008 5:23PM
My vote would have been for rear projection, had that been given as a choice. The size/performance/price ratio for rear projection has gotten utterly retarded (retarded being good) in the past 6-12 months. If you want a flat panel, I like plasma at 50" inches and larger. The colors are so much more realistic than all but the most expensive LCDs.
The important part is that you are buying a giant television, and rarely does a man sit down in front of his giant new TV and think, "man, I hate my giant new television"!
Be sure that your television budget doesn't cut into your audio budget. An extra $500+ spent on audio is the best bang for your buck in home theater. There are a million different ways to spend your audio dollar, but my money is on Denon electronics and Klipsch speakers. I have B&K electronics and Polk Audio (heavily modified) speakers.
One more thing; some of the best money I ever spent on my home theater was my Equitech balanced power conditioner. Even used, it was $1000, but the difference in audio and video performance is worth every penny. Its the kind of component you'll keep for ever.
Good luck man!
rscottyl @ May 21st 2008 5:39PM
If you have a way to hide the wires running to the projector, then that would be the biggest bang for the buck, otherwise you could go for an HDTV.
The HDTV could fit on a stand, and your components could be very close. The stand would hide the wires and make it look better.
Another thing about the projector, is that it would be preferable to have a flat wall that is very white, so you can get maximum viewing benefit.
cckrobinson @ May 21st 2008 5:43PM
Once you go projector you'll never go back.
Franssu @ May 21st 2008 10:47PM
Agreed. I live in an apartment, wy viewing distance is 14 ft, and I have a 720p projector on a 92" screen. And yes, I'd like to have a 1080p projector, but this will have to wait for when I finish my MBA, and in the meantime the large 720p image is plenty HD for me, thank you very much. I can see the pixels on the windows desktop of my HTPC, but when I watch video content I see a glorious image (the fact that it's a panasonic with smoothscreen technology helps a lot). Remember : resolution is not the most important thing, color fidelity is, closely followed by the wow factor of a really big screen. I had to sacrifice a window to have good light control, but I never regret it.
From hollywood blockbusters to videogames, from japanese anime to artsy european movies, everything looks better with a projector. Once you've tried that, you can't go back.
Dan @ May 21st 2008 6:00PM
I don't even think this is close. Get an HDTV and in a few years when you get another HDTV, stick this one in another room in the house. Who wants to have to sit in the dark every time they want to watch TV??
lakersin2025 @ May 21st 2008 6:01PM
I was going to ask this also. I have a 13ft wide X 12ft high living room that I would love to throw a screen on. The maximum distance to screen is 16ft with no minimum. I own the home so holes are not a problem. Any suggestions? Any something close to affordable would be awesome!
Mike @ May 21st 2008 6:53PM
Part of this decision should depend on what you are going to viewing the most. Is the video source going to be used for TV, video games, and movies? If so, then go with a plasma or LCD TV. If you are only going to be watching movies then go with the projector. Projectors are not designed for the amount of hours that playing video games and TV entails. The bulbs don't last that long and are really expensive to replace.
David @ May 21st 2008 8:02PM
I have a projector and a 26" LCD, but now I'm also looking for a 40" LCD TV to have something bigger for general use. The projector is great, but the problem is it has to be dark when you watch it. This means the lights need to be off and you can't be doing other things like eating dinner while watching TV. Just a little bit of light severely affects the projector's picture quality. If you want a true movie theater experience at home, no question a projector can provide it. It's just the everyday, general usage that it's not good at. I'm trying to think of a way I can move my 40" LCD in and out from my projector screen so that I can use my same surround sound speakers for both the LCD and projector. Daytime viewing, video games, etc, use the 40" LCD. Nightime movie experience, slide out the LCD and use the projector screen.
joe @ May 21st 2008 8:31PM
Projectors are excellent for movies and video game but not TV.
Projectors require that you control the ambient light and require frequent bulb changes and require a dedicated installed screen. They also always require all the home theater equipment to be on. You don't need surround sound for the evening news.
They are the absolute BEST when you can control all of that but even a small lamp in the room destroys the contrast ratio.
So I'd recommend a TV it's more expensive and has a lower quality best picture, but much easier to manage.
blauck44 @ May 21st 2008 8:54PM
I like my optoma projector, it has the vetical stretch mode than a panamorphic lens which gives me a super wide screen image, but this wont work for every one, since the lens and curved screen cost more than the projector
Steve Z @ May 21st 2008 10:23PM
If you go projector, I have & recommend:
Optoma HD72 DLP projector down to $999 @ circuit city & others.
1 roll of photography black out paper for a screen which is white 120" x 100 yards or paint your wall white. Cost less than $100 delivered by UPS
1 Octava 5 port HDMI switch comes w 5 six foot HDMI cables $200
Onkyo HT990THX home theater $700 & buy one optical cable $15.
This is my set up and for 2K you will have an awsome home theater
The projector & Home theater in a box are a couple of years old now which is why they are cheapest they have ever been but are highly rated by reviewers and I cannot tell you how happy I am with overall quality.
At 20 feet away on my paper screen the viewing image is 15 feet wide x 7 feet tall and picture is great. I sit 15 feet from screen. Otherwise buy the biggest matt white screen you can afford. This paper screen I admit is not for everyone. It tends to bulge in time but is not noticeable during viewing and I can make 5 screens from the roll. If you want asthetic perfection this size screen would cost thousands if purchased from a screen manf.
Also spend a couple of hundred on a battery backup. I get 9 minutes back up time with the APC XS1300 for $130.
Steve Pendleton @ May 21st 2008 10:24PM
>I can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p
If you have decent natural or corrected vision, you CAN tell, especially at the 50"+ sizes implied by considering front projection. On 1080p displays, 1080p material is definately crisper than 720p material. Once you notice the difference, you'll usually know which is which. If you buy a 720p set, you won't see any difference, of course. And if you rely on retailer demo feeds, you won't see it either, since most are 720p. A lot of folks who say "can't tell" just haven't seen an A-B comparision yet under circumstances that will show the difference. Blu will reward the folks who with good 1080p sets.
Steve Pendleton
DeadPixel @ May 22nd 2008 8:39AM
i much prefer an lcd
safehaven99 @ May 22nd 2008 1:52PM
I've been using a projector for 9 months and love it. Many brands are good, Panasonic projectors are known for very flexible placement on a shelf or desk even at an angle - check out the specs. You also don't need a lot of throw distance (
Harold @ May 22nd 2008 3:38PM
People who think that a projector won't work in an apartment or a room without good ambient light control are mistaken. I live in a loft-style apartment with ten foot high cealings and windows all along the side wall that are simply covered in hanging blinds. I have an Epson Home Cinema 720 and the picture quality is excellent even in the middle of the day. My screen is 140" and although black levels are not as good in the daytime unless you are watching very dark material the picture is stunning (especially sports). I have a beautiful 42" CRT HDTV in the same room and even in high ambient light conditions I always find myself using the projector. And considering the Epson was only $1100 with a free lamp it is a much cheaper option as well. Unless you really have to watch dark movies or play dark video games in the middle of the day you will have no problems.
KilgoreTrout @ Jun 1st 2008 1:25PM
The best?
Is undoubtly both things. Listen:
My 2 HTPC (on wifi network) are leashed (besides their 20 &22" LCD monitors) also to a 52" plasma , a 37 LCD to an LG beamer with (hidden)cables, and to 27" lcd on the 2 floor via media extender (wireless media center when I bought it) and even to a digital photo frame.
I just had to make use of the scart, HDMI, coponent exits and to buy a "Blackbox" that multiplies a single HDMI to four.
Most of the times I use the screens, but once in a while the beamer is unsubstitutable (?).
If the pad is not too big remember that instead of a projection screen you can buy a paint that would turn any wall into a cinema screen.
It looks so beautiful that I repeated the motif also on the other 3 walls of the room.
Enjoy your planning, the hard work will be the cabling.
Ferri @ Jun 6th 2008 9:09AM
Well, a projector setup is a bit more expensive. and sorry especially if your room is not dark you should get a proper high gain screen instead of painting your wall white.
expect to spend on your screen at least half what your projector costs
personally I just bought a dalite high power fabric screen 45x80" , a benq w500 projector that totals around 1300 $ without shipping and only lacks a proper sound system. How much would I pay for a monster 45x80`tv?
please dont buy a 3000$ 1080p high power projector and then project it on the wall...
that said, I can get enough 720p 16:9 content, for watching crappy analog tv.. I ll do it on my pc monitor.. a good buying point is what content do you watch and will you be watching. at the screen sizes used for projectors analog tv is horrible.
my advice: keep current tv for analog tv and add projector for those special movies. get good sound system.
Regards,
Ferri
GerN @ Jun 8th 2008 10:29AM
Front projectors are wonderful, but they still require some tech savvy. Visit projectorcentral.com for detailed reviews and installation info. I painted a basement wall (screen area about 8.5 by 4.5) and have no problem with a little ambient light when we enjoy a pizza with a movie. My wife was resistant at first but now tells me how much she loves our theater. If you really want an intense experience, go with good sound as well (imho, good stereo plus subwoofer more important than surround if constrained by budget) and even consider Crowson seat shakers. These are large (4") speaker voice coils without cones which will physically shake your seating. We have two on our recliner loveseat and I "feel" they add to music listening as well as being fabulous for action movies.
buddy @ Jun 12th 2008 2:49PM
I have both. My canon sx50 projector is reserved for a big crowd (especially pay per view hd boxing) on the same living room with my aquos 45 inches lcd tv. Two of them can be open together to watch the show. If your are sitting facing south, you will enjoy the 45 inches hd lcd and when you are sitting facing east, you will be watching the 133 inches hd projector screen (can be retracted to the ceiling). With 5.1 surround sound and a comfy sofa, I missed my local cinema. Also, I have a portable screen that can be used on my backyard for the show.
NormO @ Jun 12th 2008 4:40PM
I bought a 52" Plasma 720P LCD and love it. I put it side by side with the Plasma and the LCD was actually better and much less money.
Chris @ Jul 1st 2008 7:45AM
I agree, once you go projector, you don't go back!
I've had rear projections in the past and hated the large cabinets they were in and when you wanted something larger hence, comes the larger cabinets. Even with today's flat panel screens, you still get a large cabinet. Now that I'm on my 2nd projector, my 1st wasn't even a 720p, but had a great picture in a light controlled room. I recently picked up a 1080p "sanyo plv-z2000, ceiling mounted" and diy 106" 2.35:1 fixed screen sitting about 15' to 18' back and what an amazing experience it's been! I NOW look for movies in the 2.35:1screen format! All connections are HDMI 1.3a coming from a 7.1 onkyo receiver and a combo blu-ray/hd-dvd player... Oh, and if I wanted too, this thing is portable and can go from a 40" to 300" screen, the 300" size would be on the side of the house on a warm summer's night either watching a movie or playing video games from the xbox 360 or ps3! The only thing bad about this setup is after 10:o'clock p.m., your neighbor's might call the cop's to turn down your audio system!!