Looking for
more competition among Blu-ray players? TV and appliance manufacturer Taiwan Kolin is apparently prepping a player for the Taiwan market, expected to debut around the third or fourth quarter of this year. Built around Sharp components (not at all the
first player to do so), the
Economic Daily News quoted Taiwan Kolin's president as saying it would also see store shelves in the U.S. under Syntax-Brillian's Olevia brand. Unfortunately, with no features listed and a retail price only remarked as "less than NT$30,000 ($977 U.S.)" it'll probably need to be a lot less than that to make any kind of splash here.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Jimmy @ May 20th 2008 12:46PM
Olevia is not a brand I would purchase but they do make some very inexpensive products. I would think this unit will hit in the $199 - $249 price range.
Nfinity @ May 20th 2008 2:27PM
What part of $977 didn't you understand? LOL..
The funny thing is that you have a bunch of people defending Blu-Ray as a technology and the only reason they do that is because they bought a PS3.
There has been ZERO movement in lowering pricing for Blu-Ray anything aside from PS3. The technology is dead as a door nail and has absolutely no way of hitting mainstream.
What's funny is that there's a huge amount of fanboys thinking that somehow we should all wait for another 10 years for Blu-Ray to take off, like we live in the freakin' nineties. :)
High prices ALWAYS = niche. It's very obvious there's absolutely no competition among CE companies. $500 players is not competition. It's price gauging that nobody is buying.
It's just a matter of time before those CE companies getting ass raped by Sony wise up and drop Blu-ray and go to something more efficient like network based DVD players, TVs etc etc. That's the future after all not some ancient optical media format.
It's totally laughable to continue supporting any type of optical media, a technology that is inferior to anything we have on the market these days, not to mention slow as ass.
Jimmy @ May 20th 2008 3:16PM
I understand how incredibly difficult this is for you to understand but the price will not be $977 in the US. If you took 30 seconds to read the linked DigiTimes article you would realize that it says it will be marketed in Taiwan at that price not in the US.
Do you honestly believe a company such as Olevia would attempt to market a player that costs more than the price of 80% of the televisions they sell? No, even you can understand this if you would stop spouting BS long enough to think about it.
On top of that, Olevia needs to compete with Sony, Samsung, Philips, and Sharp that all have players under $400. The sub-$400 is regular/everyday price for these products by-the-way.
On top of that, Olevia needs to compete with Sylvania, Emerson, Magnavox and Funai in the sub-$300 market.
So you will excuse me if I use my amazing powers of prediction to say that this Olevia unit will at the least match the price of an Emerson!
You could have these same amazing powers too if you would just get treated for your rectal cranial inversion.
Gus @ May 21st 2008 12:41AM
Link??
wreckedchevy @ May 20th 2008 1:58PM
so much for the cheap player for xmas eh?
Achilles @ May 20th 2008 2:29PM
Maybe one of us should direct traffic and inform the BR manufacturing companies that they are going the wrong way in price????
JimC @ May 20th 2008 2:44PM
Nfinity,
I love how you never miss a chance to beat the drumbeat of "I told you so". One thing, you're a bit premature on the gloating. Wait until 2009, if blu-ray still is high priced and low volume, then I think we'll all give you a big prop but until then, this is nothing but noise. More players will be coming out as the year progresses as also more titles will be ramping up for the 2008 holiday season.
It will happen. The blu-ray CE vendors are not stupid. They know that keeping prices too high will only kill the market. As supply increases, prices will come down, as volume increases, prices will come down....mark my words, once again.
Nfinity @ May 20th 2008 2:51PM
Yeah..prices will go down when they start clearing out garbage 1.0 and 1.1 players. Of course you'll see that as natural price lowering but it's nothing more but another wave of ripoffs to an unsuspecting consumers who don't even know about this stuff.
Mark my words, Blu-Ray is dead by mid-2009 or beginning of 2010,especially when Sharp and Toshiba finally start shipping devices and TVs, DVD players that use SpursEngine and give HD out of existing DVDs.
It's an incredibly smart solution that requires NO reinvestment in anything.
You can go ahead and wait. sure. And of course, go ahead, and buy $30-$40 movies. I guess it's what people say, you should pay for it if you want to succeed. I sure ain't gonna give them money and neither will any smart consumer because everyone can see that it's nothing more but a ripoff tactic cooked up by Sony and a few other companies.
JimC @ May 20th 2008 3:26PM
Nfinity,
"SpursEngine and give HD out of existing DVDs"....this is flat out impossible. It can make SD look the best as it can on HD screens but compared to true HD sources, nothing will compare (as long as the HD encode is high quality).
The effect is easily demonstrated. Using your favorite image editor (I like GIMP( gimp.org). Take a full 1080 HD (1920×1080) image, use the scaling feature to scale it down to SD resolution (480 vertical resolution, keep the same aspect ratio). Save it as a new image. Now take the SD version of the image and using the best scaling method possible (experiment with different settings) and scale it back up to the HD resolution.
Use this image as an example: http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/downloads/01548_stpaulscathedral_1920x1080.jpg
This image has nice detail especially around the cathedral dome (notice the railings)
Flipping back and forth at the native resolution (use a proper monitor), you will instantly notice the loss of crisp detail. This is an example of how upconverting or upscaling an image cannot ever have the same detail and clarity of a true native HD image....
northcranky @ May 20th 2008 4:01PM
"ripoff tactic cooked up by Sony and a few other companies."
Nice objective sentence.
Hooterman @ May 20th 2008 4:20PM
Bravo Jim, I love your example to actually show people why upscaling will never replace a high res source.
Rep +1
Nfinity @ May 20th 2008 8:13PM
JimC obviously you have no understanding how SpursEngine works. It's not simple upscaling.
So your whole write up has no sense. If you saw at CES 2008 what the footage looks like you would understand. The image is STUNNING.
With barely noticable increase NOW, from upscaled 1080p DVD and Blu-Ray or HD DVD for most people, the different between SpursEngine treatment of the material against 1080p HD source will be completely indistinguishable for most people.
I have already explained many times how this works. Again, obviously you are extremely unwilling to except anything that would go against Blu-Ray despite the fact that this type of technology is actually better for everyone and gives much more value to consumer.
Super-upscaling or SpursEngine is cell CPU powered technology (just like in PS3) that utilizes regular DVD footage with a super intelligent algorithm that takes your current frame of 480p footage, looks at 4 frames after that one for additional information, then takes 4 frames prior to the active frame.. recombines data in a way that basically there will be VERY little difference between HD DVD or Blu-Ray and super-scaled DVD footage.
The problem is that gamer fanboys that support Blu-Ray because of PS3 or Sony are incapable of understanding that majority of people don't give a shit how many pixels image has if they look pretty much identical.
Not to mention the fact that with SpursEngine you don't need to buy or replace manufacturing of regular DVDs. You just continue publishing and when remaining 65-70% of population goes to get a new Sharp or Toshiba TV in 2009 or a new DVD player for $100 they will most likely have the ability to watch supe-scaled DVD movies that looks pretty much HD and much much better then regular upscaled DVDs.
JDS @ May 20th 2008 9:09PM
nfinity
how stunning was it? were you totally blown away? was it mind boggling?
were you even @ CES 2008? or did you just watch the podcast on engadgethd?
you are so ridiculously dramatic.
you can explain your perception of how SpursEngine works up one side & down the other a simple facts remains: the source is 480p and nothing the technology does can change the source
quit trying to sell us on "good enough"
personally I don't care what is completely indistinguishable for most people, most people don't read engadgethd, most people aren't in the know, most people waited 4 years or longer to buy into DVD [after 2001] because vhs was good enough for them...most people are most people
the way you try to dismiss or discredit what JimC wrote only illustrates how closed your mind is to anything that contradicts what you want as opposed to what is in reality, kind of like a spoiled child throwing a tantrum.
please grow up or don't cause it's funny to read really amusing in a sad kind of way
oh yeah...really realistic that 65 - 70% of the remaining consumers are going to buy either Sharp or Toshiba only.....that's gonna happen
and Sharp..you mean Sharp who just unveiled 3 new Blu-Ray players / recorders with HDDs up to 2TB? if Sharp is so f****** sold on your beloved SpursEngine they why do they bother putting out generation after generation of Blu-Ray players & recorders [recorders only in Japan currently]
didn't Sharp ask you what they should do?
lastly, where do you get off calling anyone a fanboy? you are by far the best example of a fanboy that I have ever read....you personify the definition of fanboy
Nfinity @ May 20th 2008 9:17PM
JDS, you are beyond ridiculous. It's sad a mature man write nonsense as you write. If you are really 38, which I still can't believe. You are just blabbing nonsense. You lack of knowledge fuels your utterly stupid reactions and comments. 480p content in one frame is impossible to increase but 8 frames with 480p content actually contains more then enough information to generate 960p (that's what the Toshiba representative explained).
And yes, for your information I was at CES 2008 and I saw this technology in action among other people and quite possibly bumped elbows with some press folks I know.
Ignorance, completely lack of logic and intelligence is the only way I can describe your response. You sound like an angry little child that simply refuses to accept anything else but they have in their own mind.
Again, very sad for a self proclaimed 38 year old.
JDS @ May 20th 2008 9:37PM
nfinity
"self proclaimed" 38 years old? what's that? I am pretty sure that if I was born in 1969, like I was, then that makes me 38 going on 39 this year....
is there a question or a statement in this run-on something you wrote: "Ignorance, completely lack of logic and intelligence is the only way I can describe your response. You sound like an angry little child that simply refuses to accept anything else but they have in their own mind."
easy there Timothy Leary / Terrnace McKenna and try to explain what that meant....please
do me a favor, go ahead and show me where I have a "lack of logic" as you put it and while you are at it, illustare for me where I "sound like an angry little child that simply refuses to accept anything else but they have in their own mind" what ever that means.
BTW: I was clearly accepting what JimC wrote which might contradict what you wrote. Depening on what you meant if you know what you meant which I doubt
EQC @ May 20th 2008 10:19PM
BR players have upscaling built into them now...and there's no reason for Panasonic, Funai, Toshiba, and other companies who don't own movie studios to *not* put in the best upscaling they can to make their players look better.
If the SpursEngine in a DVD player is only going to be costing about $100, then I'm guessing that it could also be put into a Blu-ray player for super-upscaling SD DVD's....and it won't be adding much to the price.
By the tim this comes out in '09-or 2010, BR players will likely be $100-$200 at the low end. So, a BR player with superscaling abilities could probably be $150-$250.
That way, you'll get superior picture in all your movies (superscaled DVD or regular BR) plus the superior sound in the BR ones.
Nfinity @ May 20th 2008 10:46PM
EQC said: "BR players have upscaling built into them now...and there's no reason for Panasonic, Funai, Toshiba, and other companies who don't own movie studios to *not* put in the best upscaling they can to make their players look better."
Well, these players don't have this technology in them and it's not just upscaling. There's a HUGE different between upscaled content and super-upscaled. Overall it's going to be upon Toshiba to license this technology and something tells me they won't be really giving it to everyone. The whole point here is that Toshiba developed this technology to give them an advantage over other companies. So far as far I know they've only partnered with Sharp. I'm extremely excited about this. It gives us basically HD out of regular DVDs. That's just sick. Hell my old movies on DVD will look ten times better. No need to rebuy crappy Blu-Ray encodes of old movies anyways.
But you are right, SpursEngine can be also applied on Blu-Ray/HD footage as well.. so effectively you can have 1080p footage increased in quality even further, however there won't be need nor a TV that will require this type of resolution. The advantage is obviously that DVD will come close to Blu-Ray without any additional costs to the consumer except that you buy a new TV or a new DVD player that has Spurse that will be again at DVD player prices not $500.
Basically what this means, is that Blu-Ray will be pretty much in the niche-market as well, because someone who gets pretty much the same looking movie through SpursEngine on their DVD, sure has no reason to buy a Blu-Ray player and pay premium for movie. It kind of defeats the whole purpose of new media. Surely, it's not going to be exactly the same. Super-upscaling will always be somewhat worse, but I could pretty much with certainty say that best DVD footage that's superupscaled will come to a very similar quality as Blu-Ray and will look the same for weaker encodes on Blu-Ray.
Oh and as for 2009 and 2010.. SpursEngine is already working and will be in PCs this year with DVD player and TV integration by autumn 2009. The technology is already working and ready and basically won't cost consumers any premium over regular DVD players or TVs.
It's pretty exciting. And if you listen to TWIT podcasts and other tech podcasts where some ISPs even discuss the whole digital downloads situation. it's clear that the whole bandwith thing is totally not a problem and that by end of this year in the US (what Comcast says) they will up the broadband to 100mbps on high-end and 20-50 mbps standard.
I mean it's already happening. My residential connection is 25mbps so obviously it's happening already.
Add to this that major companies are already shifting to digital download models and rentals, I'm pretty sure that this Toshiba SpursEngine thing will be favored by consumers for those who want HD on the cheap (which is like majority of people) or don't have enough bandwith of tech-knowhow to use digital downloads and Blu-Ray, if it's still alive, will be for niche market.
EQC @ May 21st 2008 2:57AM
NFinity:
Thanks for the reply...this SpursEngine superscaling sounds very interesting. I hope it makes it to market, and is inexpensive, as you suggest. Somehow I hadn't heard of this technology before...
If your predictions are correct, and this tech keeps Blu-ray from catching on, it'd be pretty comical since it's powered by the Cell -- the same chip that runs the PS3 which was, in part, designed as BR's trojan horse.
Anyway...I don't agree with all of your anti-blue opinions (but I haven't bought into the format yet either...waiting for cheap prices and an HDTV), but your posts are often informative nonetheless. SpursEngine is definitely something I'll be watching for now...
Mark @ May 21st 2008 4:20AM
I think super resolution makes a great feature in a TV set, but it is flat out stupid to buy a premium high definition TV just so you can avoid paying for proper high definition player. Upscaled images even through super resolution will not compare to proper HD content. You would end up spending thousands on an HD set to avoid paying hundreds on HD content to play on it! That is just dumb.
While the feature is welcome I do not think it will look noticeably better than a regular upscaler and potentially has some awful side effects. If its combining detail from 9 frames then the chances are that moving objects will smear like a bad LCD. Only stationary or slow moving elements will have extra detail and only when the transfer or camera is slightly jittery (both in the vertical and horizontal). The proposition that it will match HD quality or be mistaken for it is just silly.
JimC @ May 21st 2008 11:43AM
Nfinity,
It does not matter how you take a 480p source and interpolate the images, it is still interpolated. No means of interpolation can increase resolution. The sampling of multiple images may increase quality of the upscaling, may increase edge definition as compared to the current upscaling, but you cannot take multiple 480p frames and get information that is not there to begin with. It may be better upscaling than is available now but it will not be the same as a true HD source, it is physically impossible.
Will it make upscaled DVD's look better than now? Yes. Will it look as good as true 1080p sources, never....so it comes down to what you want, do you want "almost" HD or actual HD. On my 1080p HD TV, I cannot stand it when a broadcast is not in 1080p, so if I have a choice between buying a new movie in SD and "almost" getting HD or just getting the HD version, it will be a no-brainer. Now for my existing DVD's, sure, I'd like them to look their best, thanks for the super upscaling. But for best results, the real thing is better than the cheaper knockoff...
Mike @ May 23rd 2008 12:40AM
Wait till 2009? HD DVD was $150 Dec 2007...and before you talk about Toshiba selling for a loss..so was The PS3 last year. Now without presure from from HD DVD, BD is taking it's time to be affordable.
I hope there is a way around Aug Toshiba can suprise us with a 4th generation HD DVD player under $120.
They could come out and say see in 6 months after we left the market BD has not tried to include the customers we market to. So to help the working middle class we bring back affordable HD DVD players.
JDS @ May 20th 2008 3:35PM
The only reason the retail shows as $977 is due to a weak U.S. Dollar conversion from NT$30,000.
Olevia knows its place in the US market, low-end to mid-grade at best.
Expect to see this player fall between the Funai [Magnavox or Insignia branded] and the about to be released Daewoo profile 2.0 player.
With pricing in line with Olevia's entire US product line.
It will be in Wal-Mart, Circuit City etc.....anywhere they carry Olevia HDTVs.
nfinity, enjoy all the 480p source content upconverted to nfinity [and beyond] but keep in mind we all do not have to settle for faux HD.
Mark @ May 21st 2008 3:56AM
I think the company president was just being coy. When asked what it would cost he basically said "under $1000". In other words they haven't decided and they're not saying. I don't know why anyone would interpret such a remark to mean a budget player really is going to sell for so much money.
1stGreg @ May 20th 2008 5:14PM
It's funny that the naysayers try to use this (which won't -obviously- be the price in the US) to try to show that Blu Ray has high prices and nothing changes.
A monthor two aggo, they might have had a shot ;)
Unfortunately for them, the BD1500 at $349 (profile 2.0 ready, bitstream THD and HDMA) and the Mag at $298 (profile 1.1, bitstreams THD and HDMA) are out :)
Mark @ May 21st 2008 3:50AM
The Sylvania / Magnavox player is meant to be fast and functional but lacking 5.1 analogue outputs and internal decoding. It means if you have an amp with a bitstream decoder, or just a HDMI TV the player is perfect. Impressions on the AVS Forum have been very favorable - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1026390.
I think the price will drop much further as holiday season appears. $300 is too close to the new Samsung model but it will be good value when it drops to $250 or lower.
iynaroc02 @ Jul 4th 2008 4:28PM
Thank you, no Olevia or Syntax for me. Too much bad experience:
Laptop & LCD TV Reviews:
Warning for people thinking about buying a LCD TV or Laptop: The worst laptop in the market today is Averatec. I purchased a 12.1" laptop and could not get the customer service to even respond and when they responded they said I should find a local laptop repair shop to help me at my own expense. I paid a lot of money for this laptop and has taken it in for repairs 4 times and finally dumped it. This is the most terrible manufacturer one can ever encounter. I bought it based on a recommendation by PC Magazine, so be careful when you read these recommendations. Walmart and a lot of other stores have stopped carrying this brand. For those considering LDC HDTV, forget about Olevia/Syntax brand. The product is terrible and the customer service is the definition of "chaos". I paid $1500.00 for the tv, but have lost sound/audio and pictures/video a couple of times in just a couple of years. They don't have authorized dealers, so you either have to ship it to them for repairs at your own expense or hope to find a handy person locally to fix it for you.