Toshiba's v2.0 firmware for third-gen HD DVD players causing jaggies?

by Darren Murph, posted Mar 14th 2008 at 8:01AM

This most certainly isn't the first time we've heard of a firmware update causing more harm than good, but apparently, the latest version -- which supposedly enables 1080p24 output on the HD-A30 / HD-A35 -- is creating all sorts of headaches. According to a lengthy thread over at AVS Forum, the HD DVD faithful that are hanging tight to their players are growing increasingly frustrated by the addition of jaggies on MPEG4 / AVC discs when played back in 1080p24 -- a problem that was also present in the last HD-XA2 firmware. Worse still, it seems as though Toshiba isn't stepping up to address the issue, and considering that its format has now passed away, many are wondering if a bona fide solution will ever surface. If you've been battling this very quirk, head on down to the read link to check out a few workarounds -- here's to hoping a real fix emerges in the not-too-distant future.

[Thanks, Colin H.]

Filed under: Industry, HD DVD, Players, Toshiba

Tags: a3, a30, a35, error, firmware, hd dvd, HD-A3, HD-A30, HD-A35, HdDvd, issue, jaggies, mishap, problem, toshiba, update, upgrade

Subscribe to these comments

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Highly Ranked

pquistgard @ Mar 14th 2008 8:35AM

C'mon, BD has its fair share of issues too, but I really feel sorry for the HD guys with this one!

Highly Ranked

DrXym @ Mar 14th 2008 8:54AM

Every device of the complexity of an HD DVD or Blu Ray player will have issues. That's why they are firmware upgradable in the first place.

In some ways Blu Ray should have more problems than HD DVD simply because there are more players from more manufacturers. More implementations of the same spec mean more bugs are likely to crop up. Though in truth it appears to be specific manufacturers such as Samsung who are having the most problems.

Neutral

jvirg1 @ Mar 14th 2008 8:59AM

Hmm, one thing I noticed after putting on the latest firmware was I was watching Eastern Promises and the picture just did not look great to me, so I kept fussing and was like is it just me or is this just not great. I adjusted my TV. I adjusted settings on the HD DVD. I was like what changed all my other movies looked great on here. So I thought perhaps it was just the way the movie was. Then I tried one last thing and changed the resolution from 720p to 1080i and all of a sudden the picture was beautiful again. So not sure if it was just that movie, the latest firmware, or what. But I have always just set everything at 720p in the past and had no problem. I don�t have either of these models though; I have a first generation unit.

Neutral

Truth Teller @ Mar 14th 2008 10:14AM

So, is me posting the info that
1) I never had any such problems on my HD A/EP35 and
2) rolling back to V1.3 is an easy fix
a problem or something?

Highly Ranked

cbedellhealy @ Mar 14th 2008 10:54AM

Truth Teller, are you saying that you updated your a35 to fw 2.0 and didn't notice jaggies on avc encoded material at 1080/24. A good spot to check is the begining of chapter five in Transfomers, about 20 secs in there is a simultaneous pan and zoom of Bumble Bees hood. With fw 1.3 at 1080/24 no jaggies, with fw 2.0 at 1080/24 extreme jaggies. In the 20 or so fellow A35 owners i have had contact with over the net, you are the first to report that your a35 was unaffected by the bug.

Also using a hex editor to edit fw 1.3 in order to trick the player into accepting it, is hardly an easy fix. I will admit since certain avs memebers like unbiased took the time to post the modded fw this helps alot. The problem is Tosh is extremely unresponsive, and good luck calling Toshibea for help. I would be amazed if one of their csrs even knew what avc was, let alone actually helped you. So the average A35 owner who isn't scouring Avs forums is SOL, those csrs will never suggest using a hex editor to downgrade fw. They will tell the customer it is impossible.

Congrats Toshiba not only did you leave us hd dvd owners high and dry when you surrendered the war, as a farewell to your most ardent supporters you crippled the progressive output of their machine on pretty much all Paramount releases. They took the best most highly praised aspect their flagships and renedered their best resolutions useless on 30 to 40 percent of hd releases.

Neutral

Dark Jedi @ Mar 14th 2008 11:12AM

Yes because you are lying!

It's interresting to note that, not surprisingly, HD-DUD have just as many early problems as any other new technology, despites the lies from preople like Nfinity and TruthTeller (who is actually telling lies).

Low Ranked

Truth Teller @ Mar 14th 2008 11:25AM

Just checked it.

So that's what counts as "jaggies" these days, eh? LOL

OK, so there was a minute and very slight distortion along the edge of the black/yellow of the hood/bonnet?

Blink & you'd have missed it.

It's not exactly what I'd call a huge flaw and it's not something I'd have even noticed if I wasn't told when it was coming & where to look and if I sitting within 2ft of my 1080p HD TV.

@ Dark Jedi (guffaw)

What a massive flaw in HD DVD, eh?

LMAO.

Neutral

Joe @ Mar 14th 2008 1:59PM

TT-
Just go away. At this point HD-DVD doesn't need any cheerleaders. Toshiba released a firmware update that degraded the picture quality.The war is over and HD-DVD owners need actual information and support from the internet. Hopefully many owners have seen this and put off upgrading their machines.

Try to minimize it all you want but I'll believe cbedellhealy over you given his specifics of the situation.

Neutral

Truth Teller @ Mar 14th 2008 2:45PM

No Joe, I don't think I will. GFY.

What's up?

Can't you bear to hear a contrary voice or a POV at odds with the one you prefer to hear?

Sorry but I'm simply telling it how I see it and from what I've seen on my kit.

But you carry on, it's your right
(and unlike you and some others around here I don't post such laughably arrogant stupidity as to tell anyone to go away when I disagree with their views.....are you about 5 or something?

Clearly you would seem to prefer to believe that the instant an HD DVD player is upgraded to V2.0 firmware then any disc played in it will result in huge great contrasting jaggey spikes of random colour and no discernable image to watch as opposed to what I have seen (which is a barely noticeable distortion).

.....and surely any early-adopting Toshiba owner with a minimum of knowledge about this is surely quite capable of rolling back to V1.3?
(otherwise your PS3/Blu-ray/BD+ dreams of repeated firmware upgrades in a mass-market product are unlikely to get too far)

That's not cheerleading or minimising anything, it's simply the truth of what I have seen for myself.

Pity you can't stand to see it.

Highly Ranked

John B @ Mar 14th 2008 5:42PM

@Dark Jedi:

"HD-DUD"

Yeah, REALLY mature of you. {rolls eyes}

Neutral

andy @ Mar 14th 2008 10:15AM

I have an HD-A2, so I'm unaffected.

However, if Toshiba doesn't put the two programmers they need to on this for the 1 month it would take them to properly fix everything (cost what? 10k?), then I will probably avoid buying anything "upgradeable" from them in the future (blu-ray player).

Neutral

Ken @ Mar 14th 2008 11:44AM

Well if it's any indication, I sent in my HD-A20 for repair on Jan. 12 and still have not gotten a working player back. It will be about 2.5 months since that day when I supposedly receive a new player. Toshiba is a complete nightmare. It's amazing they got as far as they did with ANYTHING, given how completely inefficient and incompetent they are.

Highly Ranked

cbedellhealy @ Mar 14th 2008 12:01PM

Truth Teller, i am not sure i am understanding your point. What do you mean "that is what counts as jaggies", those are what jaggies are. I am wondering what type of tv or pj you have. Does your set display 24p material without a 3/2 pulldown. On my 52 XBR4 they are noticeable from where i sit, about 7 feet away. Also try switching back to 1080i and watch the same scene again, on my set with fw 2.0 1080i is near perfect compared to 1080/24 or 1080p.

Are you suggesting that this isn't an issue and doesn't exist. Or are you saying that you can see the issue described but people shounldn't complain b/c chapter 5 of transformers "there was a minute and very slight distortion along the edge of the black/yellow of the hood/bonnet?" So since it was only 'slight' distortion in your estimation people shouldn't complain, huh. How much distortion warrents a complaint?

I would argue that anytime a CE company comes out with a fw that negatively affects performance of a previously working feature, it is vitally important for us AV nerds to complain and help get it fixed. While Truth teller may be quite content with jaggies at 1080/24, i spent nearly four grand on set so i would never have to see another jaggie in my life. If i am nitpicky, so be it, but isn't that part of the deal when being a HT nut. Isn't that why Ht mags go through such a bevy of tests when reviewing a Tv or an hd dvd player.

Truth Teller if perfect 1080/24 playback isn't important to you why even buy the A35 in the first place. Since you are not bothered by jagggies, you should of saved yourself some money and just got an A3.

Neutral

Truth Teller @ Mar 14th 2008 12:27PM

@ cbedellhealy

My set displays 1080p/24 without pull-down.

I'm saying the effect that I saw was slight & very minimal and barely noticeable even at around 2ft distance.
I doubt I would have even noticed it if you hadn't pointed out exactly where it could be seen.

I'd be bothered by jaggies if they were how I remember them a few years back (huge great things that practically rendered the image unwatchable) but I have to admit that this is not what I'd call a big deal at all.
Fair enough, they shouldn't be there but it's not something I'll be crying my eyes out over either.

.....and just so you know, I bought the HD A/EP 35 for it's audio performance primarily.

Highly Ranked

Mr. E @ Mar 14th 2008 12:39PM

You're wasting your effort. Truth Tosser is a guy who's so blinded by his HD DVD evangelism, that he

(1) Continued to predict an HD DVD complete victory even after Warner's defection
(2) Predicts complete BD failure even after Toshiba's withdrawal
(3) Refuses to acknowledge the importance of a critical flaw like this in his beloved format

I love my PS3, but if a Sony firmware update caused a processing flaw like this, I'd be up in arms about it! The whole point of getting into HD media in the first place is for the top-notch picture and sound. For me, everything else is just window dressing.

Truth Tosser, are you watching on an old 12" black and white CRT in the kitchen, or what? LOL.

Neutral

Truth Teller @ Mar 14th 2008 1:39PM

Wow 'E', such pearls.

1) I think you'll find a hell of a lot of people at least expected the format war to go on for a hell of a lot longer than it did and, regardless of the actual outcome, be a lot more 'open' than it turned out.
So, yeah, I'm really out on a limb there. Not.

(shame 'the industry' wouldn't let the consumer decide)

2) It remains very much an open & unanswered question whether Blu-ray will survive, nevermind whether it can actually take on and beat SD DVD.
Looks like I'm really out there on another limb. Not.

3) "Critical flaw".
FFS you Blu-ray zealots are tragically hilarious.

Go on then, tell the truth - have you even seen this supposedly "critical flaw"?
I'm betting not.

I'm betting anyone that has actually seen it (on a non pull-down true 1080p/24 set) would (like me) just laugh in your face for your absurd one-eyed exaggerations.

Neutral

kuromiko @ Mar 15th 2008 10:23AM

@ Truth Teller:"(shame 'the industry' wouldn't let the consumer decide) " Truth, hate to say it, but Blu-Ray outsold HD-DVD every day of the week for over a year. That's called "consumer decision".

The consumers chose it, the studios chose it, the manufacturers chose it. You can be sore about it, but don't twist the facts.

Neutral

FLskydiver @ Mar 14th 2008 6:04PM

I have an A-30 and 1080p/24 TV (and a PS3). The jaggies are very noticeable with 2.0 and were not present in 1.3. If Unbiased didn't post a hacked firmware for 1.3, I wouldn't have been able to roll back. The Toshiba players don't allow you roll back to earlier firmwares -- which is bad design because there is always the possibility a new firmware will perform poorer than an older one (as happened in this case). To date, Toshiba has not provided a fix, and it has been over a month since the bad firmware was released. T.T. - all you need to look at is the edge of the letterbox window. With 2.0, they vibrate. It was a pretty big oversight for Toshiba to miss this when testing the new firmware.

Neutral

Joe @ Mar 14th 2008 8:48PM

I thought that the A35 already supported 1080/24p. I have that and a Bravia and the tv says 1080/24p?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? What is up?

Neutral

Peter @ Mar 14th 2008 9:15PM

The HD-A35 has supported 1080/24p since its launch, and it has done it correctly up until v2. EngadgetHD just doesn't know this because they have always been completely BD biased.

Neutral

Ari @ Mar 14th 2008 11:42PM

@TT, your name really should be Liar Liar.

Enough with your fanboyish defence of a flawed firmware update.

Neutral

jmorgan750 @ Apr 12th 2008 2:30PM

I hope someone can lend some information. I have an hd a30 with the
2.0 update. I can play commercial movies (rented) but after
downloading and burning dvd format tv shows to dvd-r and dvd-rw
blanks the show will play for a random amount of time and then the
unit stops. Then I have to start over, fast forward to just before
that point and it will play on through. Then at another random
point, Stop again. I have this happen maybe three times within a one
hour program. Hope this didn't jump too far from the thread.
thanks

Neutral

brewhunter @ Apr 12th 2008 2:38PM

I hope someone can lend some information. I have an hd a30 with the 2.0 update. I can play commercial movies (rented) but after downloading and burning dvd format tv shows to dvd-r and dvd-rw blanks the show will play for a random amount of time and then the unit stops. Then I have to start over, fast forward to just before that point and it will play on through. Then at another random point, Stop again. I have this happen maybe three times within a one hour program. Hope this didn't jump too far from the thread.
thanks

Steve Harris hints at the future of the reborn EGM Micro-transaction model a possibility for WoW The first video of N+ dev's 'Robotology'	RunPee goes mobile with a new iPhone app Flickr2Twitter: Twitpic killer? Did OpenBitTorrent just become The Pirate Bay 2.0?
Give us your tired, your poor, your best iPhone fireworks pix and videos New MBP offers top display quality, but some beg to differ Get Astraware Solitaire and some free fireworks	The week in preview: Focus returns to earnings: Alcoa, Chevron, Family Dollar The Iraq War was fought for oil -- now we have none of it Earnings highlights: General Mills, Apollo Group, H&R Block, Sealy ...
Celebrate July 4th with adorable Kodu fireworks Gears of War 2's Title Update 4 now live Metanet: N+ next week's Xbox Live deal	EDITORIAL: Attention Wall Street Journal - Ford does not use Toyota's hybrid system! MotoGP: Autoblog tours the Yamaha garages REPORT: Toyota plans to manufacture up to 30,000 plug-in hybrids in 2012
Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood DLC coming to PC Epic's "CliffyB" found id's acquisition "shocking" Rumor: Windows 7 going gold next week?	McNair Investigation Focuses on Woman Jeff Fisher: 'This Is a Tragic Moment for Anyone Who Knew and Loved Steve' Sahel Kazemi Identified as Second Victim In McNair Tragedy