Audiophiles can't tell the difference between Monster Cable and coat hangers
We've always believed that the perceived quality boost that comes from using high-end cables is really just a trick of the mind (read: justifying the ridiculous cost of premium cables to yourself) -- if you've dropped enough cash, you can probably hear anything you want. Still, our belief is one thing -- cold hard proof is another, and it looks like a group of 12 self-professed "audiophiles" recently couldn't tell the difference between Monster 1000 speaker cables and plain old coat hangers. Yeah, coat hangers. The group was A-Bing different cables, and unbeknownst to them, the engineer running the test swapped out a set of cables for coat hangers with soldered-on speaker connections. Not a single one was then able to tell the difference between the Monster Cable and the hangers, and all agreed that the hangers sounded excellent. No wonder Monster has to rig HD displays. Still, we bet people still fall for the hype -- oh hey, if you're looking for the ultimate in sound, we've got half a meter of oxygen-free, triple-wrapped double-insulated Sonically Shielded AmpliSized Egyptian Llama cable here that we'll part ways with for just a couple grand.[Via BoingBoing]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Wayde @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:30PM
Nice image file from GizmoRepublic
http://www.gizmorepublic.com/accessories/monster-hdmi-cable-scam-830
That was a good article. I've been railing against "high end" cables for years. This has been done many times. Tom Nousaine is a hi-fi journalist, don't know what even became of him. He did lots of comical A/B/X tests with panels of so-called audiophiles. It's funny the things they can't really tell the differences between. Cable vs coat hanger scratches the surface.
Spanbauer @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:39PM
The reason consumers keep buying Monster cables isn't because they think they can see or hear an improvement, it's because Best Buy monkeys are trained to convince consumers it's totally worth it to spend $100 on cabling if they're buying an HDTV.
John B @ Mar 3rd 2008 10:04PM
Bull.
I've had BB employees admit to me that Monster is overrated. I've been pushed more towards Dynex than Monster. Of course, Dynex is still big-time expensive when compared to the Internet, but it's cheaper than Monster. What choice do they have, really? Either recommend Dynex or recommend the Internet. If their manager is nearby, you know damned well they're not going to recommend the Internet. To their credit though, when I've mentioned eBay for cabling I've never received resistance beyond, "That's true if you're willing to wait or pay for expedited shipping." So, even they admit that it's a convenience factor.
I don't know what stores most people seem to frequent, but the three that I go to in Pennsylvania and Maryland regularly seem to have respectable people working for them.
(Disclaimer for the naysayers: I'm an IT contractor who works with Sun Microsystems hardware every day. I've never worked at Best Buy.)
DrXym @ Mar 4th 2008 6:01AM
With US sales people on commission it is no wonder they try and flog expensive cables. Most UK stores only sell expensive crap too, largely because consumers won't know they can buy the same thing for much less elsewhere.
Tucker @ Mar 4th 2008 7:00PM
Actually, most large chain stores in the US do not work on commission. They may have in the past, but I know for a fact Best Buy doesn't have a commission system. I worked there for a few dim months to make money and get cheap gear when I was in college, and believe me, I'd be rolling in cash if I got a commission.
Now, we were "strongly encouraged" to push the more expensive crap with big markups and the replacement plans, but I always did my best to make sure customers got the gear that was right for them for the least value. I was in the vast, vast minority, though, and from what I've seen on the rare occasion I step into a big box store these days, they still push garbage and/or are completely uninformed. Internets FTW!
JeffDM @ Mar 8th 2008 4:23PM
The stories from the Best Buy employees in the TV department that I've read was that if they don't sell enough Monster Cables with the TV, they got fired. Monster was the only brand that got that special sweetheart treatment. Maybe that's changed, but it sounds like it was true at one point.
RockinOscar @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:51PM
there was also a report on a canadian tv channel which did a $179 Monster HDMI cable to a $12 monoprice cable
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2008/02/20/packing_the_deal/
AniMill @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:03PM
My favorite comment/push for high-end HDMI cables is, "This one is v1.3 compatible with the latest upgrade software in the connector." When I first heard this I just stared at the sales guy then bust a gut. I buy my cables from PartsExpress.com where they have excellent value and build quality and if you really want to show off, you can spend more coin their on high-end cables too.
eugene @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:37PM
cabling is like buying wine. If you think you're getting a high quality item, you will perceive the end product to be of high quality.
IMO, the only time high end cabling will make a difference is when the length of the wiring is so long, signal attenuation becomes an issue. In that case, I could see how having more refined metal in the wires and better shielding in the coating could make a difference... albeit a small small, itsy bitsy difference. So hey, if you're room is several hundred feet long and you need to wire it up... go for the expensive, shit.
As for me, I continue to buy the cheap stuff at amazon.com or monoprice.com.
Michael @ Mar 3rd 2008 11:36PM
You obviously are not a wine drinker.
DrXym @ Mar 4th 2008 6:05AM
Some cheap wine can taste great and some expensive wine can taste terrible. But generally there is a relationship between price and taste of wine. Personally I rarely throw down more than 9 on a bottle and usually much less than that.
But wine is highly subjective. Cables shouldn't be. They either do what they claim and electrons move from one end to the other or they don't. Unless you had an extremely unusual setup, it is doubtful you or anyone else could tell the difference between a cheap cable and one from Monster. Especially for digital.
Tom @ Mar 3rd 2008 10:14PM
What gauge were those wire coat hangers? :P
I might have to pick some of those up.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Mar 3rd 2008 10:28PM
I never use less than 00-gauge wire hangers. They just can't deliver the bass kick.
Mojo_Yugen @ Mar 4th 2008 4:00PM
I'll sell you some for only 79.99 a pair. Special price for you.
Mr. E @ Mar 3rd 2008 10:44PM
Never underestimate the power of the placebo effect. It just goes to prove, a lot of people have more money than sense.
+1 on the recommendations of Monoprice and Parts Express. I've used them both, and they're great quality and value.
Jake @ Mar 3rd 2008 11:50PM
Coat Hangers
1) AWG 12 size for low DCR. Low DCR increases damping factor, providing tight bass. Low DCR also limits dynamic compression in high-current applications. The single large conductor is somewhat prone to skin effect compared to a group of individually insulated smaller gauge coat hangers, but this would be confined to the upper octaves.
2) Solid core conductor eliminates smearing of high frequencies common in stranded conductors. I'm sure this is where the coat hangers blew away the Monster Cable.
3) Air dielectric nearly eliminates the time domain errors associated with PVC. The air dielectric around the bare coat hangers would even outperform high-end insulators like teflon. Also a huge advantage of the Monster Cable.
Insulate your coat hangers with teflon of cotton, and then braid four of them together them. You'd have a pretty nice DIY cables that would lay waste to Monster cables. Particularly for subwoofers. There are also some simple, freely available plans on the internet for weaving CAT5 ethernet cables into speaker wire. Any of those designs would utterly wail on Monster Cable.
Ultimately, the coat hanger fared so well because it is a better design than the Monster Cable! Seriously. That's not to say that we should all run coat hangers, but rather that Monster Cables completely ignore almost all the commonly accepted tenants of good cable design.
Bravo to those guys for doing the experiment!
kcjones @ Mar 4th 2008 12:04AM
Audiophiles agree that Monster cable isn't any better than coat hangers. Monster cable is virtually all marketing and no science. Wire companies such as Siltech, Audioquest, Kimber Kable, etc. give actual measurements, showing the benefits of their cable. Given that most consumers are only faced with Monster Cable as the "High End" alternative, then the article more than serves the public well.
Mike @ Mar 4th 2008 12:19AM
Where was this test done? A showfloor at a box mover or a real hifi/home theater shop? I would never recommend my friend to go into your corner box mover and buy cabling period. The quality of the interconnects/speaker cabling makes a difference relative to the quality of the components you're using. Don't dismiss the difference good cabling can make in the enjoyment of well-recorded material simply because your budget doesn't make it feasible for you. I'll agree, there are plenty of companies out there that do what the non-box-mover-marketed Monster cable lines do at less of a price, but make sure you yourself make a trip out to a real home theater/hifi retailer who knows what real fidelity sounds like and can demo it for you in a realistic environment. I sincerely believe that the majority of people can hear the difference an interconnect/speaker cable can have on a system, they just don't talk to anybody who can explain it to them. Much like explaining to a $12-a-bottle Reisling lover why a $200 Cabernet costs what it does. That other dork that used the wine analogy obviously stands on the other side of the fence than I do, but I've stood on both sides and chosen mine based on my tests with my own home system, which lets me completely enjoy my music and movies. Again, it's all relative to the other components in the system.
Peter @ Mar 4th 2008 1:53AM
Mike is correct when he notes that the quality of the components makes a difference when evaluating interconnect and speaker cables. Further, often the differences are not subtle and are easily identified. However, many people assume that any more expensive cable will be better than any less expensive cable. This is not the case. What matters is how all the components in your system - including the cables - complement each other in producing sound as close to live as possible.
Fifty years ago, the goal of high fidelity engineering was the accurate recreation of live music, mostly played on acoustic instruments. Cables and equipment were designed with this in mind. Today we live in a music world that uses IPODs and compressed computer downloads as the standard. Of course a coat hanger sounds as good as a Monster Cable. Neither is especially good at what it does, but both are capable of meeting the compressed music standard. Never-the-less, without knowing the equipment being used, the results of the comparison are not meaningful.
I have no doubt that given the right mix of components, coat hanger signal transmissions could be as effective as some audio cable transmissions. I also have no doubt that Nilay Patel enjoyed taking a shot at Monster Cable and, with the last comment, at high-end cables. Since Patel seems to advocate low technology, I would like to send along my latest improved communication device kit: two Del Monte Green Beans cans, 20 feet of string, and some wax. Please advise re: the mailing address. I would, however, expect a good new 5.8ghz phone by return mail.
Tim Comolli @ Mar 4th 2008 1:56AM
What a fool am I....
I'll NEVER purchase another product with the Monster logo. I admit to fraility of mind and advertising madness as I bought:
1. Monster Power Conditioner ($1000): It went failure after a few weeks but gave no indication that it was malfunctioning. Tech support treated me with flip retorts to my questions.
2. Monster Surge protector for projectors ($350). This unit is a wonderful concept and a miserable reality. It is supposed to keep the projector's fan motor running during a blackout situation. Its nature was to sound an alarm when no power problems were indicated. This was checked by my local power company who placed one of their recording devices on my line for a week. On top of that, the unit never kept the fan mottor running during a real crisis. And finally,
3. Monster High End transmission cables to connect the receiver and the projector in my home theatre. With this cable the height of misery occurred when it was run through the walls and ceiling only to find that, after hours of problem solving, that the cable had a connector which had been improperly soldered.
Now at least I know why the "Head Monster" can afford that fabulous home in California. What we probably don't see, however, is the fact that he's undoubtedly replaced at least some of his cabeling with sensible connectors from Monoprice!
wakeboredb @ Mar 4th 2008 2:19AM
Question: How come you never hear an electrical engineer debating the merits of expensive interconnects?
Answer: Because they know that if you have proper insulation and solder points that copper is copper, and the electrons don't care about anything else.
JeffDM @ Mar 8th 2008 4:36PM
wakeboredb: the closest I see is when they use XLR connectors for audio. But XLR cables are not very expensive. They work on the same princibles that wired ethernet, USB and many other connection standards, that balanced signals help eliminate interference noise.
DrXym @ Mar 4th 2008 5:58AM
I suppose a very tenuous case could be made for buying Monster cables for analogue outputs, or unusually long cable lengths, or if you're constantly plugging and unplugging leads. But only tenuous since the equivalent generic rated cable at 1/10th the price would do as good job or be so close that any differences are more likely to be in a person's imagination.
And for digital cables there will be no difference at all. The signal comes through in one piece or it doesn't. It won't be richer, or more vibrant because you're using a Monster cable. It will be exactly the same as a generic rated cable. The only difference is the person buying the generic rated cable has $90 money to spend on games, videos, a meal or whatever.
Monster cables and their ilk are for suckers.
Michael @ Apr 21st 2008 6:48PM
"equivalent generic rated cable at 1/10th the price would do as good"
thats also 9 more generic cables you can buy if the first one dies!
Boborama @ Mar 4th 2008 10:02AM
I ran a similar test a year ago where I hung my clothes in the closet using both conventional coat hangers and Monster cable. In this instance the coat hangers were not mearly as good as...but actually outperformed Monster by a huge margin.
David B @ Mar 4th 2008 3:22PM
Oh my goodness, TOO funny Boborama!
Question is, though, were the clothing items wet or dry? I fear the dampness could eventually result in surface rust on your coat hangers, which may invalidate the long term viability of using metal coat hangers in favor of Monster cable...
Me, I'm one of those that bought into the Monster "hype" many years ago. But I have since come back from the brink and now spend my money on components and content, not on silly overpriced interconnects. AND I recommend to anyone I speak to about things home theater that they NOT buy into the Monster (or other such company's) hype.
Scott @ Mar 4th 2008 2:13PM
This reminds me of the old "Tone Tests" that Edison used to conduct to see if an audience could tell the difference between his phonograph and a live performer:
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/1997/3/1997_3_50.shtml
It really makes you think about the role of perception where audio is involved. Maybe marketing is enought make you believe you are hearing something great.
satow @ Mar 5th 2008 2:27PM
Sound quality from cables are based upon its resistance, capacitance, and shielding. That's it.
Coat hangers sound great under the right circumstances. So does battery jumpers for cars. It all depends how well your amp, speakers handle different loads as well as how your ears perceive it.
If you like how Monster Cable sounds, then go for it.
If you like how a twisted pair of Radio Shack 18 gauge solid core hookup wire sounds, then go for it.
If you like coat hangers, then go for it.
Who really cares? Why should anyone tell you what you need for your system to sound good? Just try different cables and use what you can afford and think sound good.
As for me, all this high end cable stuff is hocus pocus. Science and your ears are the only thing that matters in the long run.
Disk @ Mar 5th 2008 7:09PM
"If you like how Monster Cable sounds, then go for it."
Reasons why you should not think that simple:
1) The placebo effect is high, especially when you aren't a trained audiophile.
2) Hearing measured by the human brain is highly subjective.
3) The listening environment is often very influencive. The testing setup is usually very bad.
4) Cable companies and sales business (usually) want you to believe that cables matter a lot. Never fully trust a salesman.
5) Science hasn't shown a hearing difference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-end_audio_cables http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire
6) Dedicated subwoofer companies say that a simple cable is enough for their own products.
"Who really cares?"
Those who care about the truth instead of simple *believing* that your ears are perfect and that you are able to judge exactly what physical values you hear.
But I was a millionair, you wouldn't care. (Then I would buy the most expensive cable.)
JeffDM @ Mar 8th 2008 4:31PM
I think it's more than that. It's best to educate people so that they don't spend extra money that gives them no actual extra value. In most systems, the quality of the wiring is the most insignificant problem, but they're the one item that people overspend the most on.
Tmiller @ Mar 8th 2008 12:07PM
I used to get very angry at products with unproven (or unprovable) claims. Then somebody (maybe Tom Nouisanne) taught me it boils down to 3 things:
- Can you hear the difference?
- Can you afford it?
- Does it make you feel better?
I you can say yes to two of the three, then you if you buy it you will enjoy it. For me, that means coat hangers it is. For others, cryogenically treated Monster products laid out prominently on the floor make sense.
Bob DeVore @ Mar 11th 2008 11:46AM
Hi
Let me make a suggestion here.Instead beating a dead horse about listening to speaker cables why don't you a focus on something that is current.Example.Can anyone see the difference between 1080p,720p,and 1080i?Or can anyone see the difference between HDMI and component video?With 1080p and HDMI being the latest hype in this business I'm sure it would be interesting to SEE the results!
Brandon @ Mar 12th 2008 11:56AM
I just want to add, I work at the evil red company after being recruited out of my blue shirt. I am a manager and prefer to sell cheaper cables. Obviously if I was only concerned about bottom line growth, I would definitely push Monster and their monster prices. I have and can, but I find people come back and ask to work with me because I dont try push anything let alone monster cables. I recommend saving money in certain areas to get more in other areas. It amazes me how many people dont get HD programming and how many people don't use any type of sound system. So instead of spending 100 on an HDMI cable, spend half that and get 5 months of HD programming through your provider and get more out of your TV. Although still more expensive than the internet pricing, I know which cables they need and where they get hooked up, so if they want the enjoyment of hooking everything up(my favorite part) they can do it right away. Lastly, if your looking at component cables or any other analog cable for that matter, get something a little heavier in order to get the best picture quality. Dynex and Nexttech are both suitable solutions that you dont have to wait for.
weev @ Mar 28th 2008 7:38AM
I upgraded cables on my Linn hifi. It really improved the sound. They were Linn cables, of which they make 3 types to support their gear.
Audiophiles - genuine ones - wouldn't touch a Monster cable. Even if was the swinging vine across a chasm to freedom.
Alex @ Apr 22nd 2008 4:54PM
I used to work in Home Theater at Best Buy. Yes monster is overrated. While I worked there I would tell people to get their cables online. Even the Dynex, which is Best Buy brand, were over priced. A 6 foot HDMI cable in Dynex flavor costs $60. With the BB employee discount, that cable costs around $5. That's $55 of profit for BB.
Needless to say, Best Buy didn't like having me around. I can't say I like being around BB when I worked there. If you want to know how to not to run a business, work for BB.