http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/ Engadget HD Comments for Analyst says consumers didn't end format war http://www.engadgethd.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadgethd.com en-us Copyright 2009 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 8:23AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 10:26AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
Please, take the time to consider the target market for HD physical media. Is it grandma with her 13" black and white tv and VCR? Is it the middle class family with the 32" CRT in the family room?

NO.

It's rich-ass people and 16-18 year olds of rich families who have part time jobs and don't have bills to pay. Because of this, salesmen can easily direct customers to the pricier buy. What do they care? To people with money to throw away, more expensive = better quality. You all act like HD media is ready for, or even meant for, Joe Shmoe and his 2.5 kids. It's not. Sony made the smart decision of realizing that the pricing should be higher to appeal as a luxury item, not a bargain buy. And guess what? It worked.

Please, cut the conspiracy theories with huge payoffs. The customers (to whom the product was marketed toward) made the decision. Sorry if you don't fall into that category and feel cheated.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 3:21PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 8:23AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 8:41AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 8:57AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 9:03AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 12:18PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
I very easily could have gone with HD-DVD if they offered PCM 5.1 as well. ]]>Feb 23rd 2008 9:05AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
I don't recall sony currently having any player that does uncompressed audio at $500. Their cheapest player, BDP-S300, doesn't do dolby TrueHD. You have to get at least the next model higher to get it, BDP-S500 ($600).]]>Feb 23rd 2008 1:58PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T5GGLL_enUS257US257&q=BDP-S300+uncompressed+audio]]>Feb 23rd 2008 3:48PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 3:57PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
1) Comparing HD-DVD player prices to Blu-ray is nonsense. HD-DVD players were cheap because they were massively subsidized by Toshiba to win the war. This is easily show by how the Toshiba units represented 99% of standalone HD-DVD sales. That type of model is completely unsustainable by anyone outside the HD-DVD royalties club and no consumer electronics manufacturer was going to play at that game.

2) Consumers DID CHOOSE THE WINNER. It's not fair to say that consumers could only be choosing the winner if one of the formats withdrew from the market. Consumers alone would never be able to force it to that point because of the installed base of HD-DVD owners and Toshiba's stubbornness. What consumers as a whole did do was choose Blu-ray by a wide margin for all of 2007; both players and HD media outsold HD-DVD month after month.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 6:45PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
I see the Sony S300 as crippled when playing disc with only DTC or Dolby's HD audio. I check my source, but my source is on the blu-ray disc as well as the player.]]>Feb 24th 2008 9:27PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 9:16AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/sony with held product from consumers and paid everyone else to go blu in the biggest anti consumer sting of the modern era, Warner and co was the final jump thats all.
BR anti consumer cartel destroyed the consumer friendly superior format, corruption won the day, end of story.

I for one will take great pleasure now in watching this anti consumer cartel tank as it is fundamentally flawed.

Exorbitantly expensive hardware and software, market to small- BR can only appeal to what ever percentage of HD TV owners-which is a small number- decide they want to part with $400+, the market is tiny, DVD is too damn good-no real advantage for main stream adoption. DRM infestation to bite back at producers, downloads to eat into an all ready crowded niche market, etc etc.
BR might have flushed HD DVD, but it is going down the same drain, it will just cost them a shit load more, good riddance.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 9:22AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
It's just hit me like a bolt from the blu what the grand plan is.
BR just might go the distance after all. They withheld content before, they will just do it again, simple.

No wonder all the greedy bastards are jumping on board, as soon as the install base is high enough, PS3, sony studios will just stop DVD production and what a snowball effect that's going to have.
A company that controls content and hardware can dictate it's anti consumer ideals and there is nothing to stop them because of all the fools here who will support this pig of a company, no matter how hard they get screwed themselves in the process.

sony will be first, they will stop DVD production and force consumers not only to buy inflated software but inflated hardware as well, wow, what a bonanza for them!
It will even force consumers to buy more HD TVs, what a coincidence, sony is one of the biggest producers of HD TVs as well!!!!!
All the other studios will jump on the bandwagon as well , why sell a cheap DVD when you can rape the public with disgustingly over priced BR discs!

Sony was once a great company that focused on making the best consumer products available. Now there focus is on how can they dictate market terms and conditions through cartels and monopolies, and how can they best screw consumers.
It's so obvious that this is the plan, no doubt i will get screamed at by the blu zealots here defending this once great, but now disgusting company, what is it with you people, why cant you see YOUR best interests are not being looked after, you are all promoting the shafting of the mass market and it's your pockets that will cop a hiding as well!
Everyone and anyone should boycott anything sony, and force them back to what they do best, making great electronics and nothing else!
This whole HD media thing is going to be a massive consumer rip off of gigantic proportions.
No wonder they wanted to bury HD DVD quick smart, they cant afford to have a consumer friendly product with better qualities & cheaper in the same market place when you want to rape the market, only now with the death of HD DVD can the BDA start to withhold content again.
Let the flaming begin, but please, explain how I am wrong like adults... oh you cant, because you know I am right, it just makes sense.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 10:14AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 4:11PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
I am betting this wont happen though. Because I suspect what mainstream consumers really care about about is not picture in picture features or codec support or storage limitation arguments, but simply having one unified format they can trust to look and sounds good. All the other crap is just fodder for the fanboys.

The free market is still at work. It just may not be working in your favor. ]]>Feb 23rd 2008 2:00PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 25th 2008 9:50AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 9:30AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
We were able to figure out how many HDM players Amazon sold and, based on their sales ranks, they sold far more HD DVD than Blu-Ray. Other than that, I haven't seen any numbers.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 10:32AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/]]>Feb 23rd 2008 10:59AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
REGARDLESS of which format won, you were always going to see this revisionist history of how the losing format was "better." It makes some people feel sophisticated to bemoan the stupidity of the market.

What if HD-DVD had won. Don't you think the fact that BR wildly outsold it would be mentioned in an article exactly like the one above. The only difference would be that the article would have a point.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 9:36AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 9:53AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 12:22PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
Regardless of what the naysayers and pundents are espousing the digital distribution model is 90% here. It's another snowball that's teetering at the top of the hill just waiting for it's 'push'.

]]>Feb 23rd 2008 10:07AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 10:18AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 12:23PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
I bought players for both formats at about the same time and the difference is striking. When titles were released in both formats I opted for HD DVD.

I'd like to see how many other people have (or had) both of the most common players (PS3 & HD-A2) and hear what they have to say. No it won't change the outcome, but I wouldn't mind finding out what those that went format neutral from the start have to say.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 4:44PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 6:12PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
Can't you just see that of course Sony will back its own media to the bitter end, as did Toshiba. Its nothing about which is better, Sony invested whopping amounts of money and effort into developing a format, and they don't want to lose that. Look at all the money Toshiba has lost.

Blu-Ray will come down in price. 5 years ago a DVD R/W woudl've set your back hundreds of dollars, not I can pick one up for £20. They're not forcing anyone to buy Blu-Ray or HDTVs. The Blu-Ray market is still minute in comparison to DVD and HDTV wont really "take-off" until high definition media is available to almost everyone, not just in films, but on standard television too.

If Sony did ever decide to jus stop producing DVD, you'd have to wait for the rest of the publishers, like Universal, Warner, Disney, Paramount to all decide to anyway. And they wont even consider that until the market is there.

Sheesh. I wont even continue talking here. Too much of what you said is wrong, and I for one have some work to do.

Good day to you, sir.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 10:26AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 10:27AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 10:37AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 11:21AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 12:23PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 11:32AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 11:18AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
And don't give the the UMD or memory stick crap. UMD was meant just for the PSP, and nothing else. Memory Stick works in practically every sony device, and I actually find it pretty convenient.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 11:26AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
Here read this....

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/02/21/lessons-from-the-death-of-hd-dvd/]]>Feb 23rd 2008 11:57AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 12:03PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 11:59AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/If HDdead had won, Micro$oft would have a MONOPOLY on the video codec for ALL HD movies with thier repackaged WMP9 renamed VC1
If HDdead had won, Micro$oft would have a MONOPOLY on the interactive software for ALL HD movies with thier HDi

During the War, if you went into a BB you would see many different Blu-ray choices from many different manufactures. As for HDdead, you saw Toshiba, and RCA.

Micro$oft is notorious for buying out or stamping out any and all competition and then releasing sub-standard crap for more money that is incomplete unless you spend MORE money.
Let's take the 360 for an example.
Micro$oft says its all about choice so to get the same things as STANDARD in Sony's PS3 you need to buy...HDD, WiFi, # card readers, and a Blu-ray player.
WOWeeeee what a bargain.

Frak Micro$oft and it's continuing failed attempts to control EVERYTHING!!!! If you cannot see that is what they have done and what they will continue to do then you either work for the Evil Empire or you have the intellect of Dubya.

The WHOLE CE industry lined up behind Sony to STOP Micro$oft from taking over the Movie industry. Kudos to them, and I hope that every fraking time Micro$oft tries to Monopolize something...that the rest of the industry says NO SOUP 4 YOU BILL!!!!

FYI

WAY back in 2005 after Sony had signed up 5 of the 6 major studios and had signed up every CE except Toshiba (obviously) Toshiba was ready to pull the plug much like Sony did for DVD to AVOID another format War. Guess who stepped in with MONEY to convince them otherwise? MICRO$OFT.

MICRO$OFT is the ONLY reason that this War took place at all.

Praise be to those who stand up to MICRO$OFT]]>Feb 23rd 2008 12:01PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 12:42PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 25th 2008 10:53AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
HD DVD might have sucked, but at least it was cheaper, at least theoretically. It won't matter that Blu Ray won, we'll see sky high prices that will keep it in a niche.]]>Mar 12th 2008 11:08PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
It wasn't because Sony paid $500M to switch to BluRay.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show//1327

It wasn't even because Paramount was paid $150M to switch to HD-DVD.

It was because HD-DVD was never a viable format for hardware manufacturers. Toshiba was taking a loss on their players, expecting to make it back on media sales. How can other hardware companies then jump into HD-DVD? They either end up trying to sell units at a profit and not selling them because Toshiba undercuts them. Or else they end up selling them at a loss, which actually is doing Toshiba a favor, putting HD-DVD players onto the market for Toshiba to sell discs into without Toshiba having to make a loss on them like they do on their own.

HD-DVD was a go it alone format that almost certainly could never have succeeded, even if the consumer did like it.

The format war wasn't decided by the consumer, but it wasn't just decided by bribes and studio preferences either. People say the BluRay spec wasn't done yet...the HD-DVD business model wasn't done yet. Warner probably made the right move by crushing the format that didn't have a viable plan for actually succeeding in the marketplace.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 12:06PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 12:21PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/02/21/lessons-from-the-death-of-hd-dvd/

What is striking is that Toshiba was ready to call it quits an join the BDA before the format war began, it was Microsoft that convinced them to stick it out. Microsoft desire to push their proprietary technologies is what fueled this war.

HD4ME, if you think Sony is anti-consumer, you're lucky HDDVD didn't win....]]>Feb 23rd 2008 12:19PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/analyst-says-consumers-didnt-end-format-war/
The bottom line is...the CE's UNITED against the Evil Empire and Won, which is HUGE for the avg. consumer.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 1:00PM