http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/ Engadget HD Comments for http://www.engadgethd.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadgethd.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 22nd 2008 7:50PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
I guess you are afraid of losing traffic to the site now that you don't have flame wars going on. Revenues going down!]]>Feb 22nd 2008 7:57PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/I agree with above poster though ^^^^^
This site did every thing in it's power to destroy HD DVD, now the golden goose has been dorked, enghd is trying to reignite the war again.
What a pitiful excuse for an article, trying to lift the flagging hit rate, this site is now paying the price for it's one eyed stand.]]>Feb 22nd 2008 8:02PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/"Consumer friendly, cheaper, better featured HD DVD to have won would have been better." --
If anything the "better featured" player was less consumer friendly than the Blu-Ray players. How many main stream consumers want to, or even understand how to run a network connection to their DVD player? How many consumers understand interactive features? Just play the damn movies. That's why I don't give a rip about Blu-Ray 1.1 or 2.0. My movies will still play. And don't even get me started on the mistake of pitching "cheap" to the High Definition Television owning audience.

"What a pitiful excuse for an article, trying to lift the flagging hit rate, this site is now paying the price for it's one eyed stand." --
Seems like it worked, they got your hit. Obviously people are interested. Why wouldn't they continue to post articles of interest on the EngadgetHD site?



]]>Feb 23rd 2008 1:18AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
It is a specialty site designed to drive up page hits based on HD issues.
Engadget is the main site. I'm fairly certain that more special interests engadgetXX will pop up and go away again.

It's like criticizing a store for drumming up business for a popular fad. When fashion X goes out of style the big display for it get smaller then replaced by fashion Y. It's not a big deal for the entire store.

Besides this is the internet, when rating go down to far you just switch to porn.

EngadgetXXX -Robotic sex dolls, Which adult sites have the best quality HD feeds, how good are teledictonics, and so on.]]>Feb 22nd 2008 8:15PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
Bravo sir. Back to my porn...]]>Feb 22nd 2008 9:02PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 22nd 2008 8:50PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
Without the war, we would have had swifter adoption, and no one would have been stuck with an obsolete format.]]>Feb 22nd 2008 9:35PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
Only the extraordinarily small number of poor shmucks who shelled out $1000+ for either format's player in the early days or were stupid enough to actually buy movies instead of renting from Netflix suffered. All the HD DVD owners around here paid $199 or below for their players. That's gas money these days.

]]>Feb 23rd 2008 1:40AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 22nd 2008 8:56PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/before it started going back up again. "
What Toshiba was doing is called dumping. They were trying to kill
their competitors by unloading product below cost in a suicidal
attempt to win the format war and control the market. Had they succeded they would
have raised prices once the competition was gone. I'm sure you agree
unless you really think those prices were profitable for Toshiba.

Since all the manufacturers were foreign to the American market it
was legal, but it is similar to what is illegal in a lot of other
industries like the auto and steel industries. Sure, very legal,
sure very underhanded. ]]>Feb 23rd 2008 2:36AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
Why is it that Toshiba is "underhanded" for doing it when Sony **ADMITTED** that they were losing HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS for every PS3 that they initially sold? Otherwise, you would have been looking at close to $1,000 for a PS3 when they were first introduced. The XB360 suffered from the same thing. It's called "loss leader" where they take major hit now in hopes of making up later in licensing and a higher installation base, and it's not uncommon nor is it underhanded -- just fiscally risky.

So, Sony did EXACTLY the same thing that you now blame Toshiba of doing, but yet it's only underhanded when Toshiba does it. Is that it?]]>Feb 23rd 2008 12:33PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
STFU? Really?

There is a big difference between meeting a competitive price point in the gaming market and practically giving away players. Did Sony drop PS3 prices below the XBox? Toshiba dumped their players on the market for zip and it was suicide. Totally underhanded. Just like foreign steel companies trying to take a suicidal loss on imports to force all the east coast steel mills out of business. No member of the BDA tried to undercut HD DVD prices ever, why is that John B? Because it wasn't profitable.

Toshiba didn't want profits, they wanted control.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 1:13PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 22nd 2008 8:58PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 22nd 2008 9:06PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 22nd 2008 9:55PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 22nd 2008 10:12PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 22nd 2008 10:13PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2005/tc2005106_9074_tc024.htm

That article was pre-launch of either format.]]>Feb 22nd 2008 10:35PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/]]>Feb 23rd 2008 12:50AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/

]]>Feb 23rd 2008 3:05AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/]]>Feb 22nd 2008 10:55PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 6:25AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
Think about it. All Movies from Warner, a HD DVD/DVD Combo and a Blu-Ray version, No DVD only version.
Universal, only HD DVD/DVD Combo release, no DVD only version. Same with Paramount, and so on and so on.

What does this do? Well for one thing, you now have Millions of HD DVD Movies in people's homes. Even if they don't currently own a HD DVD player, what are they likely to buy when they go looking? A HD DVD player where then can just flip a movie disc over that they already own and watch it in HD with all the Extras on who knows how many Combo Disc's they own, or a Blu-Ray player?

Also doing this, Toshiba wouldn't have had to drop prices on Hardware so fast. Toshiba would have basically flooded the marketplace with software(HD DVD Movies) and people would then start looking for the hardware to play them on.

Also doing this, Toshiba could of Marketed that for a low price, they can play their HD Movie disc's in HD on a HD player and SD on ANY DVD player they had all for a low price. No DVD only version, HD DVD would have WON THE WAR.

Instead the Combo disc's were more money, and that just drove people over to Blu-Ray even more. That's just dumb.
It's to bad to. Oh well, I'll be sticking with DVD's for now on.
]]>Feb 22nd 2008 11:47PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
Then, you have to have all studios on board for this to work, which would never happen. THey would never risk the cash cow that DVD still is.

THe ONLY way this would work in terms of consumers buying would be for the combo discs to be the same price as DVD's are now. BUt studios will continue to charge a premium on the HD discs because like all new technology, they need to recoup costs, and since they aren't selling in volume, they need to make those profits on unit margins.

It has to be profitable for studios and retailers for it to work and combo discs would NOT have been profitable at current DVD prices. As an early adopter, I do recall DVD prices were the same as BD/ HD DVD movies are now... and that was 10 years ago, so adjusting for inflation, HD movies are relatively cheaper than DVD was in their comparable lifetimes.

I DO think that rather than combo discs, they should throw in the DVD version as a second disc. I wouldn't mind paying an extra $5 for that.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 11:35AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 22nd 2008 11:48PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/1) Enhanced DRM - without it you have no studio support period. The number one point of concern among Studios today is the ability of pirates to copy their media and sell mass produced bootleg copies, Digital content makes this possible on a scale never before seen. One hacked copy of an HD movie is infinitely reproducible, unlike any other format before it. Copyable old school media versus HD media is like a regular bomb versus a nuclear bomb. They lose sleep over this.
2) Region locks. - If they can't control the roll out, they can't formulate a profit making strategy. You can't take away their ability to shape the way they sell their product around the world. Consumers love it, I love it. You can't sell it to the Studios.
3) A Trojan Horse. - Sony sold Blu-Ray movies to PS3 owners the way crack dealers give out free samples to kids on the street. If you bought a PS3 for gaming, why wouldn't you at least rent or buy one Blu-Ray move? Just try it once and you're hooked. Every PS3 owner did. The Xbox had the HD DVD add-on, but that's extra effort and Xbox owners have downloads. And that is what tipped the scales, the movie sales numbers from the PS3 owners added up to beat HD DVD movies sales for the entire year of 2007. Game over.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 2:20AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 3:15AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/I would have proposed that the companies form a consortium, with a split roadmap, an agreement that allowed one format to be used for professional video distribution, and the other be restricted to PC use, and that there would be no crossover. They would share licensing, and share revenues based on the two formats. Sony would promote the video format, toshiba the PC format. Ironically they would have to actually trade formats to do this.

The goals:

End the war before it starts. Use the video distribution format (HD-DVD) for the distribution of protected video content. There would be no PC based reader... ever. Note that I am not a fan of DRM, or of even copy protection but I also realize that you will never get hollywood to stop trying to protect its content and frankly I don't mind paying for my movies.

Use the PC format (Blu-ray) for the distribution of data and data related activities.

Don't ever ship an HD-DVD reader for the PC or anything but qualified playback devices.

Does this solve piracy.. nope, the 'analog' hole is still there and a dedicated hacker will always find a way but by this makes it much more difficult to rip movies and almost impossible to dupe them at a profit since only real manufacturing lines could create the media that is playable in the consumer player. Would people buy equipment and use real manufacturing lines to make bulk pirated media.. of course they will but with the restriction in place of who gets the duplication gear to begin with it will be much easier to track down.

Does this give us a future for optical data storage.. yep. Blu-ray was always better for optical storage due to capacity but the capacity was overkill for movies. But what about PC based playback of movies? This is really a small market and should have been handled differently all along (and still should be). The movies for PC should be of slightly lower quality, and the entire problem should be addressed from a different angle anyways (downloadable formats, streaming, whatever).

With a dual format but separate roadmap we would have had one clear winner for both worlds (PC and movie distribution) right at the start, we wouldn't even be having this discussion and hollywood could be gleefully counting its new found pile of pennies and we could all get on with our lives instead of what we have now which is this gnawing pain which comes from having to pay the sony tax on everything we do from now on. Of course the tax would always be there but I wish it was going to someone else, anyone else rather than sony.
]]>Feb 23rd 2008 8:54AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/...my bad, the mandatory AACS protection for Blu-ray video discs also makes it impossible.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 2:42PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 11:38AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 5:43PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
137 companies supporting hddvd? then why did only 2 of them make hddvd players???]]>Feb 23rd 2008 5:45PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 5:46PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
137 Companies support(ed?) HD DVD and 176 Companies support Blu-ray....When did 137 become 1?
]]>Feb 22nd 2008 10:18PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/
I didn't get fanboys of either side, in a way. HD DVD fanboys claimed that Blu-Ray is a 'Sony thing.' Blu-Ray fanboys claim that HD DVD was a 'Toshiba thing.' And both sides have to continually point out to the other that there were a number of companies involved. True, Toshiba pretty much had a deathgrip on hardware, but don't forget that HD DVD was Toshiba, Microsoft, and the DVD Forum, a group of interested parties who voted on what constituted HD DVD.

And I'd like to bitchslap BD fanboys who want to hold something against Toshiba and high-five Warner Brothers. Guys...Warner Brothers was one of the MAIN INSTIGATORS of this stupid pissing match, and then went off and played both sides. I don't see Toshiba as anything more than a typical CE manufacturer, no, but I won't begrudge them for doing what their partners wanted.

Now, one still has to wonder why, unlike with DVD, Sony and Toshiba couldn't come to terms with their differences.

]]>Feb 22nd 2008 10:19PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 10:46PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Feb 23rd 2008 12:46AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/22/how-would-you-change-the-outcome-of-the-format-war/Mar 3rd 2008 5:33PM