http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/ Engadget HD Comments for Best Buy's not shy about Blu-ray's victory http://www.engadgethd.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadgethd.com en-us Copyright 2009 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 12:41AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 12:46AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 8:28AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
How pathetic that so many people like you, TT, nFinity, H4ldol, etc. have taken so seriously the encoding method of a f**king 12cm piece of plastic. Get over it.]]>Feb 21st 2008 8:31AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 9:39PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
I think they feel like they want people to spend some money!]]>Feb 21st 2008 12:49AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 12:55AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
There are a dozen or so blu ray manufacturers and hundreds of retailers competing for the money in your wallet. And there are more manufacturers and player models entering the market all the time. So explain please why prices won't fall? Did DVD player prices fall or rise because there was a single disk format?

The only reason Toshiba made its players seem "cheap" was because they were taking a massive financial hit on each one to win a format war. Comprende?]]>Feb 21st 2008 4:29AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
After collecting the DVD pricing, I used a website that would convert those 1998 dollars into 2008 dollars adjusted for inflation and came out with:
$249 in 1998 = $320.55 in 2007

note: You probably noticed that DVD's 20-month release range ends during the Holiday season, and are thinking that prices would have been lower than normal. To make the comparison a fair one, I looked up prices right before the holiday season, and they appeared to be roughly the same.

I then checked Amazon.com to see current pricing on cheaper Blu-ray players:
Sharp Aquos BDHP20U = $348.00
Samsung BD-P1400 = $356
Sony BDP-S300 = $376
Sony PlayStation 3 = $399.95

Overall, I am surprised that Blu-ray pricing seems to be tracking quite well with DVD's release. I didn't know what to expect, I just
assumed that since the introduction of the HD formats has been so much different from new format releases in the past that the retail pricing over time data might be wildly different. Although the prices are not as drastically low as HD-DVD, it's helpful to remember that HD-DVD players were being heavily subsidized by Toshiba as part of their efforts to win the format war, and that 3rd party consumer elecronics manufacturers are unable to match those retail price points in the near term. That said, Blu-ray hardware does use more expensive system components, although in my opinion the resulting increases in technical specifications more than make up for the difference.

I believe the format war had two primary effects on pricing. Number one, it drove down prices due to competition between the two formats. But, conversely, it also limited consumer adoption even among early adopters. Therefore, it had an effect of maintaining higher prices because of the lack of economies of scale that could have been seen with a one-format marketplace. I believe that now that the format war is finally over, the expected increase in consumer adoption of Blu-ray will act as a catalyst for major competition between the plethora of manufacturers that have already jumped in to the game. I would speculate that by the holiday season this year (08), we will see Blu-ray profile 2.0 players at Walmart for $220-$250.


]]>Feb 21st 2008 4:45AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
The first of these is that Blu-ray has more of an uphill battle. The technology of DVD was a big step up over VHS no matter what kind of TV you owned. Chapters, no more rewinding, menus, extra features on the disc, etc. Blu-ray is essentially just a bigger DVD, and its only real advantage can only be realized by a) the less than 50% of people that have an HDTV, and b) people that actually care about picture and audio quality. Blu-ray has a much smaller target audience than DVD did right now, so they need to sell this stuff to just about everyone that can use the technology, whereas DVD could get away with only selling to a quarter of their target audience for a while.

Secondly, Sony has said that they did not intend to "repeat the mistakes of DVD in dropping player prices too fast". The fact that Blu-ray player prices are relatively on par with where DVD player prices were at this point is TERRIBLE, because Blu-ray slashed prices due to the format war. Blu-ray had TONS of EXTRA incentive to slash prices, and they still are barely keeping up with where DVD (who had far less competition) was. Imagine if HD DVD never existed, we'd probably still be looking at a $800 entry cost for Blu-ray.

It took an extra level of competition that DVD never had to deal with just to keep Blu-ray prices close to on par with where DVD prices were at the same time. With that extra level of competition now gone, why in the hell do people expect Blu-ray prices to keep dropping at the same rate they did before (which even then was slightly slower than the competitionless DVD)? Already since the Warner announcement we've seen price cuts and bargain priced software come to a complete halt.

People keep saying Blu-ray players will drop in price *WHEN* they are mass produced. But the true statement should be that they will drop in price *IF* they are mass produced. Warner chose a side because they felt the window of HDM adoption was running thin. Blu-ray needs to realize the same and entice people to jump on board before its too late, rather than just assuming that everyone will jump on board eventually like they did for DVD. Because as much as I love HD content and would pay almost any amount for it, to the average consumer Blu-ray has a lot less going for it now than DVD did when it came around.]]>Feb 21st 2008 12:21PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 1:27AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 1:58AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 23rd 2008 6:09PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 1:34AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/GFY... GFY... GFY !!! Thank you.]]>Feb 21st 2008 1:40AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 1:58AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080221/media_nm/bluray_dc_1]]>Feb 21st 2008 2:20AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 3:05AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 2:35AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
D'OH]]>Feb 21st 2008 2:40AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 3:24AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
Samsung, Sony, Philips, Panasonic, Hitachi, LG, JVC, Denon, Pioneer, Sharp, Daewoo and a handful of no-names are all competing with each other for your blu ray bucks. And Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Costco, Amazon, + dozens of other retailers are too.

There is plenty of competition and prices will drop over time.]]>Feb 21st 2008 4:38AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
This is the best news yet! Now we'll only see movies with less interactivity and limited advances. I for one cant wait to finally see picture in picture action on my blu ray version of The Matrix collection, its never been done before!!! I can use my old HD DVD player to upscale my old dvds, but the "future is blu" blu indeed! Look out Samsung BR Players HERE I COME!!!!]]>Feb 21st 2008 3:07AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 3:17AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 3:38AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
Of course I can understand that you would prefer to focus on some esoteric features of HD DVD and say "ahah! It can't access the internet from movie content!". So what? Perhaps you'll tell me a single HD DVD that justifies hooking the player up to a network?

But of course if you absolutely must have that functionality wait for profile 2.0. Then you can bask in all those disks that feature silly portals, online stores and highscore tables to your heart's content.]]>Feb 21st 2008 6:09AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 3:09AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
*How Toshiba could have won*
-Make better encryption(hell even throw in some root kits or spyware)
-Make inferior(unstandarized) hardware so consumers have upgrades to look forward to.
-Charge 3x as much for their hardware.
-Region lock disc to eliminate international freedom.
-Develop larger capacity disc so they can leave plenty of wasted space on them.
-And finally they should have come up with a really pretty name like 450nm Ray or something to that effect(HD-DVD is just too logical).]]>Feb 21st 2008 3:43AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 4:05AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
or how about any encryption which is of any use? HD DVD ~ (Copy of) the look and Sound of Perfect! Agreed, Toshiba would NEVER use spyware!....they prefer bloatware!

"Make inferior(unstandarized) hardware so consumers have upgrades to look forward to"

So when IS the next generation of superior Toshiba HD DVD players coming out? Oh and have you seen that video of those new Tosh drinks holders? They're great! Coming to a retailer near you for only $50! and you get 10 free coasters with it!

-Charge 3x as much for their hardware.

Yes follow Toshiba and sell above manufacturing cost...oh that didn't go so well. How about below cost? hmmm that didn't work so well either! How about giving away a stack of free movies with them? Tried that too! Damn! OK, lets rebadge our models! No-one will know the difference! Oops! Busted!

"Region lock disc to eliminate international freedom."

..Yeah lets screw the studios decision to release new titles early. Who cares! The whole world can buy the same disc 2 months late!....unless we can get our hands on one of those 1 dollar Chinese rips of course! After all, this is all about consumer freedom and friendliness!

"Develop larger capacity disc so they can leave plenty of wasted space on them."

Yeah! We don't need better encodes and uncompressed sound on the same disc! Wasteful! Hey, how is the development on that TL51 vaporware going?

"And finally they should have come up with a really pretty name like 450nm Ray or something to that effect(HD-DVD is just too logical)."

nah! just stick with the boring acronym! You should try getting some poor sod with a stutter to say it though. Very cruel!]]>Feb 21st 2008 6:02AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 10:56AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 4:22AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 5:32AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 5:59AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
Pot calling kettle black. This site has done this many times.

Anyway, at least this ad will get the attention of the public.]]>Feb 21st 2008 6:16AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
What is the best deal today for a Blu-Ray player, PS3 ($399)? All I read is people buying the PS3 to play HD movies. If a Blu-Ray player comes in at $249 will people think the PS3 is a great deal anymore? Do you think Sony will allow their great system to be undercut? For the gamer who wants to play HD movies yeah it will be a great deal, but the average consumer could care less about games. Prices for Blu-Ray hardware will come down when the price of a PS3 comes down.]]>Feb 21st 2008 6:23AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 1:26PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 6:33AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
When CD's came out (I am very old) I patiently waited for Sony's second generation player to come out for $400! I'm sure adjusted for inflation it must be like $1500 now and I was happy to pay it. Same thing when DVD's came out, the second generation player cost $400. My second generation battery powered portable cost $1000 and I'm still using it. At the time there were plenty of folk that remarked "I wouldn't pay that" just like many of the readers here.

Be patient, prices will come down just maybe not as fast as you would like. The CE companies are not evil but they too have to be patient. While I haven't opened up a current HD player I bet they look like my first CD player; big circuit boards with lots of discrete components which weigh a surprising amount and require a lot of power. If you want to see the future read the IC industry magazines, you'll soon be reading about various companies announcing IC's combining multiple functions into one package. This shrinks real estate, cost and weight. Go pick up a $29 DVD player: why is it so cheap? The package is obviously smaller because there is hardly anything inside, a few chips requiring a tiny power supply. The design and manufacture of such players has reduced the parts count to nearly nothing. Remember that at $29 everybody is still making money!

The expectation for existing player manufacturers to jump off the same financial cliff as Toshiba's is naive. We all know where that leads. Current prices are probably as low as manufacturers can sell considering their parts count. Get a grip, stop your bitch'in and save your money. You may not be part of the current market but it will come to you.]]>Feb 21st 2008 6:52AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
]]>Feb 21st 2008 1:25PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/Feb 21st 2008 10:18AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/So, remember, "WE ARE IN EARLY ADOPTATION" (less than 2 years), so this is historically NORMAL, prices are going to be high at the get go. That being said, BD players still do sit at a higher price break than HD DVD on par with the A30/A35 in terms of specs.

What I don't get is why BD players do not offer the same options as the HD DVDs did. The A3 is 1080i, the A30 doesn't do all the audio decoding in the drive, the A35 does it all.

A BD player with similar specs to the A3 I'm sure would've appealed to a larger audience. So what if it's 1080i? This would appeal to those with just a 1080i only TV. This would've appealed to new 1080p owners as well. A lot of the new 1080p HDTVs do deinterlacing and inverse telecine perfectly, so you do not need 1080p output from the player, so why not save some dough?

I keep reading in forums about "better" components in BD vs. HD DVD drives. I don't understand, better how?
]]>Feb 21st 2008 10:47AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
No, this format war was all about who could pay off the studios first (and Sony with Blu-Ray clearly won this battle and ultimately won the war). This really had nothing to do with consumer purchasing power and probably even less with the actual disk format. It was all about the exclusive deals with studios to support only a single format.

A real format war would have been one were studios supported both formats equally (no exclusive "behind the scenes" or "under the table" deals with studios to only provide content on one format). Where the manufacturers had to sell their products and convince consumers which format was best based on the merits of the format, price of players, etc., without exclusive studio deals forcing consumers into one format because that is the only format on which the movie is available.
]]>Feb 21st 2008 11:18AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
You people who think, like Rob Enderle, that there won't be a profile 2.0 player out by Christmas for a price around $200 are kidding yourselves. It's like you just landed on Earth and don't know anything about anything!

As for mass market, DVD took nearly three years to have one title sell a million copies and 7 years to outrent VHS. It must be HD DVD crybabies that think if prices don't come down by next week it's all done for and oh, they're so hard done by. There's a reason the HD DVD players were as low as $109 and it wasn't cost, it was desperation. There's a reason why only one manufacturer made HD DVD players and it WAS cost - Toshiba priced everyone else out of the HD DVD game.

If $399 is too expensive, wait until this Christmas. It's no different than any other technology. Get a grip.]]>Feb 21st 2008 1:31PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
The only people that think the consumer didn't decide and that it's so unfair that HD DVD lost are people who allowed themselves to become emotionally attached to the HD DVD format. You should have paid attention to reality and not the propaganda merchants like Amir Majidimehr and Rob Enderle. It's your own fault.]]>Feb 22nd 2008 9:01AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/
This is a simple study in economics. In the case HD-DVD, if the movies people want to watch are not available in the HD-DVD format, then the HD-DVD players could pretty much be free, and consumers would not buy them. Where do I get Pirates of the Caribbean for HD-DVD? Or Cars on HD-DVD? Or Spiderman on HD-DVD? Oh-ya, can't, these are exclusive on Blu-ray, so the only way to watch those movies is to buy a Blu-ray player. The same holds true for the titles exclusive to the HD-DVD format.

As a result, this "war" was really all about content exclusivity and who could get the most studios locked into a single format the quickest. That is what decided this war. As soon as the first studio announced support for only one format, the consumer was out of the picture. So, the consumer, while they "played the game", were really not part of the war and ultimately had little impact on its outcome (I would expect, over the course, that the ratio of Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD sales pretty much reflects the ratio of content exclusivity).

In any case, kudos to Sony for ponying up the payola to pay off more studios into signing exclusive Blu-ray agreements. Toshiba clearly dropped the ball here. Economically, I'm sure it will work for them, as I expect they will recoup may times over whatever they paid studios like Warner to go exclusive.

The alternative, where all the studios equally support both formats, would have clearly put the consumer in charge of deciding the war, something I expect neither the manufacturers or studios wanted to have happen for their own economic reasons (i.e. price wars).
]]>Feb 21st 2008 2:40PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/21/best-buys-not-shy-about-blu-rays-victory/]]>Feb 22nd 2008 1:46AM