http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/ Engadget HD Comments for http://www.engadgethd.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadgethd.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 6:51PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
Err... VHS???
]]>Feb 20th 2008 2:35AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
VHS won BECAUSE it was better. Beta had half the recording capacity
of VHS. Get your facts straight before you get your flame on.]]>Feb 20th 2008 7:20AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
I have noticed a pattern here: When there's a format war, it seems that the winning format is that format backed by Panasonic. Panasonic supported VHS since its beginning (I even believe Panasonic helped JVC design the format), also heavily promoted SVHS during its limited professional life (and also tried to market SVHS for home consumers, albeit with little success), sided with Toshiba & JVC's SDD (Super Density Disc) during its brief internal war with Sony & Philips' MMCD (MultiMedia Compact Disc), both formats ending up unified as DVD, co-invented DVHS along with JVC, and ultimately became one of the nine founding fathers of BD (along with big players Sony, Philips, Hitachi, Samsung, and Pioneer). So next time there is a consumer video format war (and the next one might involve holographic or 3D discs), just check out which side Panasonic chooses and stick to that side.]]>Feb 23rd 2008 6:35PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
HD DVD did all these things very well, in a way that blu-ray did not.

However, Toshiba's MARKETING sucked. Where Sony was inventive and "with it", Toshiba was dull and clueless. They spent fortunes on bribing studios and then RAISED PRICES during their final Xmas season. Yes, ending a discount is raising prices to most buyers. If they had spent those millions in discounting their players to $99 all season, rather than saving it up to bribe Fox and Warner, they would have had to bribe Warner and Fox. Two million players (instead of some 600K) would ahve turned the tide.

So, the engineering department has nothing to be ashamed of. But management and marketing ought to resign out of shame.]]>Feb 19th 2008 6:58PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 7:00PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
My only 2 gripes would have been to get the 51GB discs out faster and to have required the hard disc coating. I have no fear right now of buying used blu-rays, but I would never buy used DVDs/HD DVDs (includes games).]]>Feb 19th 2008 7:12PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 7:18PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
The problems for Blu Ray were amplified because it's not one implementation but dozens of implementations. Sony, Samsung, Sharp, Philips, Panasonic and everyone else has to implement the same spec. Complexity breeds bugs and the more implementations, the more bugs. Simplifying the spec by moving out superfluous features and focussing on core functionality is pragmatic. New features can be added in subsequent revisions, as indeed they have.

I also think that the use of BD-J instead of HDi is both smart and daunting. BD-J is far more powerful than HDi by a mile. Think of all the games / apps that run on phones written in Java. Conversely content authoring is probably easier on HDi. I don't believe it's a long term concern but I can see why some early disks used the simpler HDMV rather than going to BD-J. This appears to be changing so maybe the tools are already improved enough. I even see it possible for MS / Toshiba to salvage HDi and pitch it as a runtime layer running over BD-J for authors that want to use it.]]>Feb 20th 2008 6:29AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 6:58PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
I wonder when you will be happy? Red lost, blue one, and the bashing still goes on. Well, the ones victorious in war writes history, so maybe Sony will be eradicate HD DVD totally from the past, and our children will be born without knowing anything about it. Is that your wish? ]]>Feb 19th 2008 7:01PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 7:02PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
BD *still* isn't a complete format.

HD DVD has many more features than BD.

HD DVD doesn't require AACS licensing fees like BD does (thus shutting out short run productions)

HD DVD wasn't killed because it wasn't good, it was killed by corporate billionaires, plain and simple (and yes, I realize that Toshiba is a corporate billionaire too :) ). Is this much different than VHS vs BetaMax? I didn't follow that war at all, but my understanding was that Beta was better than VHS.]]>Feb 19th 2008 7:01PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 7:03PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
Heh. Putting out. Heh Heh. Heh. Heh Heh Heh.

Anyone ever notice that it was the porn people who took advantage of stuff like multiple angles, and I've seen 'em brag about some discs being region-free. Who knew that people who pay other people to have kinky sex on camera were the least evil movie makers out there? ;-)]]>Feb 20th 2008 12:45AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 20th 2008 3:52AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 20th 2008 3:52AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
I think it would have been nice if Blu Ray had had at least the features of 1.1 in 1.0. But 1.1 is here and that is perfectly sufficient. As for 2.0, perhaps you're going to trail CAT5 to your movie player just to access some silly online store, or download ringtones (what?) or get onto a high score table but most people will not.

According to stats released for the Transformers disk on HD DVD only 1/3 of early adopters bothered to use interactive online content, and only 1/3 again bothered to revisit it. This is early adopters we're talking about here. I'd be surprised if more than 1/20th of people in mainstream bothered. That figure might be higher for the PS3 and any wifi enabled devices that appear but it will still be a minority.

The fact is that if you have an internet connection then you most likely have a computer too, so some half-assed connectivity on a disk is always going to be a secondary consideration.]]>Feb 20th 2008 5:21AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
But they didn't and alas we're left with a DRM infested, overpriced pig with lipstick :)]]>Feb 19th 2008 7:03PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 20th 2008 6:32AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 7:05PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
Just because Blu one it does not mean HD DVD is a lesser product.]]>Feb 19th 2008 7:06PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 7:11PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
Spin on, Olivier. Spin on.]]>Feb 19th 2008 7:11PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 7:16PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
And what makes it Sad was --->that "circumstances saw to it that [Toshiba] had to make the decision not to continue, but that doesn't mean [the company] did anything wrong."

Uh..yeah, you did something wrong or you'd be on your way to the profitland.

I also think that younger people that have grown up with Software that is constantly upgraded don't have the problem that some older AV people have about changing standards in a product line. So alot of the differences weren't as big to some people as they were to others.

So yeah, that sounds like a pity party to me.

BDA to toshiba "You See this watch? This watch is worth more than your car. That's who I am."]]>Feb 19th 2008 7:34PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
I would go so far as to say studios were their ONLY customers. Sure, BD got PC storage out there, but at prices akin to tape, it will be a while before that segment picks up. Even then, the primary use will still be for movies so not focusing on the studios' needs was a costly mistake.]]>Feb 20th 2008 12:20AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
I will say, however, that one thing both Toshiba and the BDA did wrong is to fail to compromise and merge their formats when they had the chance. They subjected all of us to a year and ten months of a stupid and unnecessary format war. For Toshiba to still not recognize that simple fact is just ludicrous to me. If they'd compromised, they would not be in the position they are right now. Half of a licensing revenue stream is better than a whole handful of nothing. Can you argue with that, Mr. Van Wynendaele?]]>Feb 19th 2008 7:45PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 7:49PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
Then some "suits" over-ruled them just because Microsoft developed it.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6281492.html

]]>Feb 20th 2008 2:47AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 7:57PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 8:12PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
Betamax vs VHS. General thought was that Beta was better. VHS won.

HD DVD vs Blu-ray. My personal opinion (and that of many, thought not the majority) was that HD DVD was better. Blu-ray won.

See a pattern?]]>Feb 19th 2008 8:17PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
damn typo.]]>Feb 19th 2008 8:18PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 9:06PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 9:11PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
Even the parting comment about BD being unfinished shows the failure of practicality. BD is a finished spec. No 2.0 players exist yet because it is unprofitable to release them now. People only care about picture quality with audio taking back seat.

They had poor partners that never helped grow the business and didn't quite grasp the market. The BDA had a better plan and executed it well.

Toshiba just had the Walkman moment Sony had once the iPod took over. They lost at their core market because of poor business and marketing.]]>Feb 19th 2008 8:19PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
I really could go on and on.. but I digress.]]>Feb 19th 2008 8:22PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
I see your "friends theory" about the victory of HD DVD didn't hold much water! Neither do your frequent conspiracy comments tbh.


]]>Feb 20th 2008 5:13AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 8:26PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
My advice- stop worrying about the AACS fees (which don't even affect us considering hd dvd's majority of the time were more expensive than blu) and all region blockades which don't affect you too much as a consumer considering dvd already has this in place. Just accept that blu-ray is a better product finished spec or not in disc SIZE, read SPEED, and audio.]]>Feb 19th 2008 8:31PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 9:07PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Now, when Star Wars comes out, that'll be high-def. The process used on Star Wars brought out enough detail to make it high-definition. Don't know about the audio, though.]]>Feb 20th 2008 12:27AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 20th 2008 6:46AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 20th 2008 6:46AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/Feb 19th 2008 9:37PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
I would buy a Toshiba BD player.]]>Feb 19th 2008 9:38PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
Another thing that HD DVD did wrong was to not take full advantage of combo discs. If every DVD that consumers had bought from the red studios in the past 18 months had been a combo disc, then HD DVD would probably have emerged the victor and not Blu-ray.]]>Feb 19th 2008 9:52PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
I strongly agree with you on your assessment of Sony incorporating the Blu-ray drive with their new gaming machine. Bold move on Sony's part and it appears to be paying off. Slowly but surely. But as Nfinity and Truth Teller would have put it, "the PS3 has no factor in the format war; it doesn't count because it's not a real BD machine." R-i-g-h-t.]]>Feb 19th 2008 11:51PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/toshiba-sez-it-wouldnt-change-a-thing-still-thinks-hd-dvd-is-b/
Toshiba wouldn't even have to drop the prices of the players so much or as fast. If you had a bunch of HD DVD combo disc's just sitting around, and a nice new HDTV, wouldn't you just go, why not and buy a HD DVD player? Already own movies to play on it. Why bother with Blu-Ray?

To bad HD DVD is now DEAD. I'll still continue to play mine for years to come. I still will never BUY, RENT, or Borrow a Blu-Ray movie disc ever. I can only hope Blu-Ray dies also. Go DVD!!!
]]>Feb 20th 2008 1:04AM