As red continues to fade in the
format war, an eye turns
towards DVD as Blu-ray's most formidable opponent. According to Adams Media Research, while HDM hardware sales are on par with DVD's first two years -- even
exceeding them due to the price slashing and pack-ins of the holiday season -- HDM discs have only sold 8.3 million compared to 16.3 million DVD's over a similar time period. While we're pretty sure
Netflix has had some effect on that number, DVD is still an even more formidable opponent now, than VHS was in 1997. The good news is that HDM sales increased 9.5 times in their second year, and
VideoBusiness' sources report 1.5 million discs sold in 2008. With HDTV penetration continuing to grow, we'll see if Blu can keep up the pace on its own.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
chop @ Feb 16th 2008 2:59PM
well the reason i havent bought any blurays since christmas is well...im broke. the holidays took a toll on my wallet and i didnt even buy presents for anyone, except for myself heh. bundled with the fact that everyone is fearing recession including large companies and consumers i dont doubt that many people are holding off on purchases that arent necessary. also vhs > dvd was completely different with the idea that dvds didnt have to be rewound and they're nicely compact and pretty much indestructible (minus scratches and stuff, but relatively stronger compared to easily ripped tape)
Larry @ Feb 17th 2008 4:15AM
HD will remain niche for a long time... Look at DVD-Audio and SACD. For the mass market the cost/benefit ratio doesn't make sense.
Most people are happy with a free sub-DVD quality DivX file, and won't even pay DVD prices anymore.
I think less than half the DVD catalog will ever be released in HD, so how can sales ever exceed DVD?
Vanillacide @ Feb 17th 2008 9:56AM
Most people here are probably too young to remember that DVD was at war with DIVX when it launched in 1997.
(The DivX codec was named after the losing format.)
At launch DIVX had exclusive studios of Dreamworks, 20th Century Fox, and Paramount Pictures -- yep, they didn't release on DVD until DIVX was dead. DIVX had serious DRM, were all in Pan&Scan (no widescreen), no features (only trailers), and was primarily designed for rental market -- these studios didn't believe people would want to buy discs.
Once DIVX was dead, DVD took off and eventually eclipsed VHS sales.
PS2 included a terrible DVD player some three years after the launch of the format.
So actually DVD vs DIVX is quite similar to Blu-ray versus HD DVD, except that DVD sold more discs than both HDM added together.
Mark Perkins @ Feb 16th 2008 3:09PM
Blu-ray has a disadvantage considering you need an HDTV to watch high def movies. DVD's however, all you needed was a new player. Blu-ray is completely dependent on High def television sales.
north @ Feb 16th 2008 3:22PM
There's really too many disadvantages.
YouFaceTheTick @ Feb 16th 2008 7:24PM
An SD tv with RCA plugs looked and sounded like crap for DVD too. Of course most consumers are idiots and didn't realize component or HDMI could help with the picture quality and a good stereo could add 5.1. To this day I still no few people with 5.1 connected to their DVD players.
Spiza @ Feb 16th 2008 11:29PM
DVD wasn't just about picture though. No rewinding, quality didn't degrade. (watch a VHS tape 20 times) DVDs were smaller and cheaper to make as well.
DrXym @ Feb 17th 2008 9:41AM
One advantage Blu Ray has over DVD is that it's backwards compatible. When it was DVD vs VHS you basically had to toss away your old collection since you can't play a video cassette on a DVD player (except combo players). Every Blu Ray player sold so far offers backwards compatibility. I say so far because its not a mandatory requirement but manufacturers would have to be out of their heads not to offer DVD playback.
Spiza @ Feb 17th 2008 5:58PM
Backwards compatibility is a hindrance. As you already stated, you don't have to replace your collection. If you are not replacing you're collection, you're not buying new discs.
Truth Teller @ Feb 16th 2008 3:13PM
It makes a nice change to se the truth posted after a few weeks of the lying BS.
Despite high def being either built-in to a game console bound to sell in the multi-millions and the most successful add-on yet which sells in the multi-hundred thousands high def has not outpaced DVD so far, actually.
carlos @ Feb 16th 2008 3:19PM
HD-DVD is dead dude. Give it a rest.
Mike @ Feb 16th 2008 3:25PM
Of course it hasn't, it hasn't been alive nearly as long as DVDs have. But it's trending much stronger than DVDs did when they were about this old.
Truth Teller @ Feb 16th 2008 3:29PM
Yeah, wow you really focused on the point there alright, not.
Is that the strategy now?
Anyone who dares point out that the PS3 format hasn't taken over the
whole world by breakfast time tomorrow is just trying to talk-up HD
DVD?
LMAO.
Mike you might want to look up the numbers.
High def (both formats combined) are behind where DVD was at this stage.
DVD did not launch built in to a game console or soon available as a successful add-on.
MI @ Feb 16th 2008 3:40PM
Let's see how that looks now that everyone is behind one format as they were with DVD. I think MANY people were holding back waiting for a winner, but are EAGER to have real HD movies on their new HD monitors.
MasterCKO @ Feb 16th 2008 4:01PM
Good god, go away.
AlphaLog @ Feb 16th 2008 7:18PM
I'm sorry Truth, but I'm having a very hard time following the point you are trying to make.
No disrespect, but I think you might need to take a break from all of this stuff. It is just a format war. I have been reading comments on this site lately and I see a lot of anger and spite coming from you. Sure, you get egged on by others, but there's no reason to let yourself be.
I also took a gamble on HD DVD. I thought it was a great format with a good chance of being the winner in this war. I wanted HD DVD to win, but not everything I want comes to be.
And though we may not agree with the reasons, the how, and the why of how things come to pass, the world does not require us to. At least not when it comes to consumer electronics.
My advice to you is to relax and try to realize that HD DVD losing the war is in no way a reflection on you.
Sam Winter @ Feb 17th 2008 12:10AM
Of COURSE it hasn't outpaced DVD. Who in their right mind can compare HD media to DVD in the same time frame. THERE WAS A FRICKEN FORMAT WAR FOR GOD SAKES! That changes the entire ballgame as only a portion of only the early adopters will buy anything. Now that the war is over, you just watch... Blu-ray is going to TAKE OFF HUGE!
Pingmeister @ Feb 16th 2008 3:48PM
I pretty quickly replaced my VHS movie collection with DVDs but I am not likely to replace my DVDs with HiDef DVDs due to upconversion.
My old DVD collection looks pretty good on my HiDef system.
MI @ Feb 16th 2008 4:15PM
Good point. I think with DVD most people who bought in early, their plan from the get go was to replace everything they may have had on VHS. With DVD to Blu-Ray there are, for me, plenty of titles that I have on DVD that I would not bother to replace. On the other hand, I'm eager to get Jack Ryan and the matrix (among others) on BD despite the fact that I've already got them on DVD. Can't wait.
NPR apparently just ran an article on a survey where I think 60% of the people surveyed said 'yes, I'm getting an HD player, but I'm waiting for a single format to emerge'. I think these numbers will change drastically in the next couple weeks.
Evan @ Feb 16th 2008 4:53PM
I know upconversion can get you by, but man it isn't even close to a HDM movie. I've been for HD DVD since the start, and I really hope BD player prices drop so I can get one soon, because the difference between upconversion and a true HD film is pretty clear.
I think upconversion is severely overrated.
Sam Winter @ Feb 17th 2008 12:19AM
You may be satisfied with your DVDs and not buy new disc, and actually I am too for the most part, except for titles I really like which I will be re-buying..... but, lets not take this concept of "upconversion" to far. I have heard and seen so much talking up of upconverted DVDs, even to the point where there were people on this blog saying HD media would fail because upconverted DVDs "are pretty much the same quality". I don't know what TV and/or connection they were looking at, but let's be honest here, upconverted DVDs CAN NOT be compared to HD media. I mean seriously, (NTSC at least) 720x480 lines vs 1920x1080.
~ 350,000 pixels vs 2,100,000, thats 6X the resolution. And even more so when you take letterboxing on a 4:3 screen into account.
There is no comparison on my 46" Samsung LCD. And my couch is farther away from the screen than most homes.
MI @ Feb 17th 2008 1:52PM
Well said. I love a good up-converted romantic comedy, but Sunshine, HAD to be Blu-Ray!!
James @ Feb 16th 2008 3:51PM
HDM hasn't been out for 2 years.
Truth Teller @ Feb 16th 2008 4:56PM
@ MasterCKO - GFY, you tedious wannabe idiot bully f*ckwit.
@ Pingmeister - It's also worth bearing in mind that there are bound to be plenty of titles that are currently HD DVD exclusive that will not be considered worth the cost of transfer to Blu-ray because their sales numbers were not great.
That's something those considering disposing of their HD DVD stuff ought to bear in mind.
@ James - stop splitting hairs it's just a couple of months off 2yrs.
cheese head @ Feb 16th 2008 5:02PM
They need to ban your IP so you might actually go outside and stfu ffs.
Mr Stevo @ Feb 16th 2008 8:10PM
Truth Teller, I thought we had made some progress with you. How bitter are you really about Blu-ray being picked "BY THE CONSUMERS" over HD-DVD? Your bitterness about this issue is beyond comprehension. You've taken your love for HD-DVD so personal that goes from fanboism to creepiness. Everyone has already accepted that although they preferred HD-DVD they were happy that now we have one format picked and we can move on to enjoy the movies.
Seriously man, let it go. You start to sound more and more foolish by the minute. If you love HD-DVD that much, then go to eBay and buy all the movies people are dumping there. Because after all, one HD format has been chosen "BY THE CONSUMERS" and that happens to be Blu-ray.
Oh, and please stop saying that this was decided by backroom deals instead of the consumers. The sales numbers are out there and week after week Blu-ray beat HD-DVD by a large margin. And, although you like to attack Sony and the BDA of secret deals, you conveniently ignore all the deals the Red camp made too, including buying Paramount's exclusivity. Do you think Universal is there with HD-DVD because they're old college buddies? They're lock down in a contract they can't get out of. You can bet your ass that there was money exchanged for that exclusivity. Universal didn't sign a contract just because they like the sound of "HD-DVD" name. After all, they're quite aware that they could be making money by selling their movies to the Blu side as well.
Again Truth Teller, give it a rest dude. It's getting ridiculous.
Sam Winter @ Feb 17th 2008 12:23AM
"wannabe idiot bully f*ckwit." Does anyone really hope to be a "idiot-bully-f*kwit".
Although I will give you +10 for the creativity, you are still in the hole -343,294,030 points for extreme fanboyism.
John P @ Feb 16th 2008 5:28PM
I continue to buy DVDs because they look great and as I have said before, there is a smaller marginal benefit going from DVD to HDM than there was when moving from VHS to DVD. Chapters, bonus content, smooth pauses, no tracking problems, it was all better. Now the only benefit is HD resolution. Which is great, but upconverting works pretty well. Also, it costs so much more to go from SD to HD because you need all-new equipment. So here's to DVD, my favorite format ever.
JDS @ Feb 16th 2008 5:36PM
Truth Teller
The PS2 had a DVD player built in & was the 1st DVD player owned by many PS2 owners.
To date the PS2 has sold close to 120,000,000 units globally and is still selling.
The PS2 did help establish DVD as the successor to VHS.
Blockbuster carried VHS until 2004.
The PS3 is about to hit 10,000,000 units globally in 14 months since launch.
Try again.
Truth Teller @ Feb 16th 2008 8:11PM
JDS go check the launch date of DVD and teh PS2.
I think you'll find a several year gap (5yrs IIRC).
Like I said the comparison is simply not valid.
DVD did not launch built in to a big selling game console and nor was it made available in the most successful add-on either.
Sorry the facts get in the way of some of the obvious myth making.
Spiza @ Feb 16th 2008 11:40PM
DVD launched in March 1997. PS2 launched 3 yrs later in March 2000. At that point, there were over 6 million stand alone players available. PS2 helped DVD become mainstream, while the PS3 helped blu-ray get a foothold. We'll have to wait to see if the PS3 helps Blu-Ray become mainstream.
Bob Sintas @ Feb 17th 2008 10:46AM
Japan:
Nov 1996 - DVD launched
March 4, 2000 - PS2 launched
USA:
March 1997 - DVD launched
October 26, 2000 - PS2 launched
These are the REAL numbers, that everyone seems to be mixing up.
hemmy @ Feb 16th 2008 6:09PM
New slogan for Lie Teller & Infinitard:
"The look and sound of epic fail"
Larry @ Feb 16th 2008 6:37PM
Finally a post that show just how little Blu-Ray is actually selling at this point. If you look beyond the pie charts you see the reality that Blu-Ray has a long way to go, and doesn't have much time to get there.
ProfWho @ Feb 17th 2008 12:01PM
@Larry aka Poofwho
Really, cause last time I checked there really are not too many places were the internet connections are fast enough to support digital distribution.
Oh, by the way if you are going to flame me,be a man and flame me yourself and not attempt to hide behind a weak parody name and then make homophobic remarks. It simply shows off that you are a bigot who is a coward as well. And being a coward on the internet is pretty low.
ProfWho @ Feb 17th 2008 4:58PM
Sorry, ignore the last part. I just realized you are not the same Larry who has been attempting to flame me.
DeadPlasmaCell @ Feb 16th 2008 6:40PM
Makes sense.. DVD is something that can be used on all TVs, HDM you need an HDTV obviously and HDTV is only starting to "catch" fire here within the last few years. Like I've said before, who ever wins the format battle still has to win the war against DVD.
/all hail Blu-Ray...
//*vomits in mouth a little*
Killer @ Feb 16th 2008 7:33PM
"The PS2 had a DVD player built in & was the 1st DVD player owned by many PS2 owners.
To date the PS2 has sold close to 120,000,000 units globally and is still selling."
First off, the PS2 was not the cheapest DVD player, for very long.
Secondly, you think that people are going to buy the PS3 over a standalone player priced at 100 dollars cheaper with FULL specs? (Full audio support Cough* Which is most likely to happen in about a year and a half). The PS2 has sold close to 120,000,000 not because of DVD. It's because of the games. If it was because of the DVD player being included as you have push as a argument, then the XBOX should have sold 50 million or more.
"The PS2 did help establish DVD as the successor to VHS."
DVD was going to be the successor to VHS no matter what. It was universally accepted by Major studios and Manfactors and everyone saw was it could do. (I know I was doubting it future, seriously no rewinding or fastfowarding needed) Besides Sony was paying out royality to Toshiba to use DVD in the ps2. So do you think they put it in there to promote the next-gen for Toshiba? No, they did it for the Games, which helped sell 120 million or more consoles. The same goes with the PS3, when it was designed it was around gaming, Sony's exec. noticed that it could prove to promote the format, so they pushed it as Blu-ray first, gaming center second.
Daniel @ Feb 16th 2008 7:56PM
except the ps2 is prettier than the xbox.
Killer @ Feb 16th 2008 7:40PM
Correction:
"I know I wasn't doubting it's future, seriously no rewinding or fastfowarding needed"
And take out:
"The PS2 has sold close to 120,000,000 not because of DVD. It's because of the games. If it was because of the DVD player being included as you have push as a argument, then the XBOX should have sold 50 million or more."
Insert: The PS2 has sold close to 120,000,000 because of the DVD player in it. It has sold that many because of the games. I never bought my PS2 in in 2002 saying to myself, alright a DVD player. I said awesome I hope it's just like the PS1.
Sorry: About my corrections, I was tided up with something, and I lost track of what I was wanting to say.
JDS @ Feb 16th 2008 9:53PM
Killer
The PS2 debuted in 1999, if you got yours in 2002 that's fine but I got my 1st PS2 @ launch and it was the 2nd DVD player I ever owned. And at THAT TIME it was the most affordable DVD player available. Many parents used it as their 1st DVD player while their children used it for games [like YOU].
The PS2 was a gateway from VHS to DVD for many, like it or not.
I never said it sold 120,000,000 units because of the DVD player I said it "helped establish" DVD as the successor to VHS. WHICH IT DID, like it or not.
So CORRECT YOURSELF, maybe get your facts straight before going off half cocked and by the way, how old are you????
Jove @ Feb 16th 2008 11:01PM
i guess you must feel real mature and older with those rude comments jd. you must be like truth teller dave jars in his arguments of the kiddie game console crowd then, right?
Jove @ Feb 16th 2008 11:01PM
i guess you must feel real mature and older with those rude comments jd. you must be like truth teller dave jars in his arguments of the kiddie game console crowd then, right?
Jacob @ Feb 17th 2008 2:33AM
JDS, why don't you get your facts straight?
DVD debuted in Japan in Nov 1996. PS2 debuted in Japan in Mar 2000. DVD had nearly 14 million players bought by 2000. I don't know about you, but it kinda appears that DVD would win before PS2, now doesn't it?
Blu-ray Sucks! @ Feb 16th 2008 8:51PM
Blu-ray Sucks!
http://bluraysucks.com
And HD-DVD too!
http://hddvdsucks.com/
JDS @ Feb 16th 2008 9:51PM
Truth Teller,
The PS2 debuted about a year after DVD in the US. At that time the PS2 was the MOST affordable DVD player available.
My first DVD player, a Toshiba [SD-3109U] was $499 in 1998.
My 2nd DVD player was a PS2.
Bob Sintas @ Feb 17th 2008 10:36AM
JDS,
DVD players were available in March 1997 and the Playstation 2 launched on October 26, 2000. That is actually 3 years later... not "about a year later."
Jove @ Feb 16th 2008 10:58PM
you people realise that you comment the same thing in every other post all the time? "no need to replace my collection" "dvd works fine for me" "the kiddie console was bound to sell lots of blu ray" "blu ray for life" "etc, etc, etc" grow up and give it a damn rest already!
Scooby1966 @ Feb 17th 2008 5:55AM
So, the war is over now and Blu-Ray is the High Definition Optical Disk for the future. I now ask the simple question: Where does it go from here? The way I see it several things have to happen in order for Blu-Ray to truly take off:
1. The Profile 2.0 Spec is done and now the Manufacturers need to start releasing Players at a reasonable price.
2. Speaking of prices; Panasonic, Philips, Pioeneer, Samsung, Kenwood, Denon and all othe Manufacturers aren't going to want the consumers watching their BR Disks on a PS3, so thy need to take their "Spitit of Competition" to the next level and get the prices well below the price of a PS3!! The PS3 is a multitalent (BR Player, Game Console and Media Center) whereas the Players are, well, just players. So, there is absolutely no excuse for them being more expensive.
3. Paramount and Universal will need to start releasing Blu-Ray real soon. I expect announcements from them real soon regarding this.
4. The prices of the Movies need to come down to be just slightly more than DVD. I live in Europe where DVDs generally get released at 18-22 Euros and the Blu-Rays go for 28-35 Euros. I think that most consumers will be willing to pay slightly more for the High Definition, but the difference in Prices need to come down. I consider approx. 4 Euros more for HD is ok.
I am very passionate about High Definition and I hope that Blu-Ray really takes off now, but these things NEED to happen in order for that to occur.
A small Note to the HD-DVD Supporters:
I really tortured myself in December as my 10 year old TV died on us. We wanted to get a large flat HDTV and that's where the pain started (Choosing an affordable TV). We ended up getting a 47 inch Philips Full HD LCD and are quite satisfied with it, however standard TV Stations looked crappy on our cheapo SAT Receiver (HD is just now taking off here in Germany). So, I got a HD SAT Receiver which also upconverts over the HDMI. I then wanted to get a gaming Console to enjoy on my new Box and that was huge pain!! XB360 here and PS3 there. What was a buyer to do. I, like many others, ended with the PS3 because it was cheaper than the 360 and had built-in BR. I kept my purchasing from BR Films to a minimum because I wasn't certain whether BR would go the distance or not.
Now, I feel comfortable about making Purchases. I truly hope that most of the HD-DVD Supporters will someday go blu so they can enjoy the best possible PQ/AQ available. I mean at the end of the day we all have the same passion for High Definition!! Isn't that what it should be about? Had BR lost the battle, I would purchase a BR Player next week, because it's all about the Movies!!
Either way, I truly wish all People who supported HD-DVD best wishes for the future!! I hope you all are able to enjoy all HD Films available, cos that's what it's all about!!
Thanks for listening
Scooby
JDS @ Feb 17th 2008 9:28AM
Jacob
My facts are straight.
I am talking about DVDs debut in the US which is what the conversation is about. Not when it launched in Japan but in the US along with when the PS2 debuted in the US.
As far as the number of DVD players sold ahead of the PS2 debut...it is a non-issue as VHS was the dominant format at that time and all the way to 2002. The major retailers shifted to DVD from VHS between 2003 - 2004. And by the way, there was NOT 14,000,000 DVD players sold in the US by 2000. Not even close.
From 1998 - 2000 DVD players were as expensive or more expensive than HD DVD players are RIGHT NOW.
When the PS2 debuted in the US it was the most affordable player on the market other then GENERIC players like APEX.