HD DVD camp issues sad little response to Netflix, Best Buy snubs
"We have long held the belief that HD DVD is the best format for consumers based on quality and value, and with more than 1 million HD DVD players on the market, it's unfortunate to see Netflix make the decision to only stock Blu-ray titles going forward. While the Best Buy announcement says they will recommend Blu-ray, at least they will continue to carry HD DVD and offer consumers a choice at retail."
Doesn't sound like there's too much fight left there, does it? If the best you can do to support your dying format is to rehash the same canned argument and celebrate your remaining shelf space, well, there would seem to be a bigger problem than you're willing to admit. At this point, we're just curious to see how it will all end: after investing so much time, energy, money, and vitriol on this bitter format war, how does Toshiba move forward in a world almost completely dominated by its rival in blue?
[Via High-Def Digest]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Ron @ Feb 12th 2008 10:58AM
How many of you are going to use your tax rebate on a new blu-ray player?
EEL @ Feb 12th 2008 8:41PM
@ Ron,
I would consider it if there was a Profile 2.0 player available at a sub $200 price point when tax return check comes. Since that won't happen until the return check comes in 2009 at the earliest, I'll just happily "suffer" with my Toshiba A2.
JBDragon @ Feb 13th 2008 12:22AM
Never in a million years will I have anything to do with Blu-Ray.
Larry @ Feb 13th 2008 1:59PM
World dominated by Blu-Ray??? What complete horse sh*t!
The world is dominated by DVD and always will be.
TFG @ Feb 12th 2008 10:58AM
Is this the nail in the coffin? They can't officially say they give up at this point...
It's like the team that's losing by 30 with on two minutes remaining in the game: They have to at least look like they're still trying until the buzzer finally ends their misery.
andyg8180 @ Feb 12th 2008 11:24AM
get a new slogan instead of "nail in the coffin"
It's already been said in the last 40 HDDVD/Bluray articles...
Kimbo Slice @ Feb 12th 2008 10:59AM
Who is this hack writer??
Where's Ben?
D@n @ Feb 12th 2008 11:08AM
Ben was fired for being too soft on smack talking goons such as yourself!
Ben @ Feb 12th 2008 11:47AM
Actually I've been sick.
D@n @ Feb 12th 2008 11:48AM
Ben is sick of smack talking goons such as yourself!
;)
locke6854 @ Feb 12th 2008 12:15PM
its cool as long as no one is too sick to make wednesday podcasts
Augustus @ Feb 12th 2008 11:04AM
It seems to be only a matter of time before they officially throw in the towel. I don't know exactly what they're waiting on but my guess is they are working with their partners now to nail down how it will end. After all, if you plan to bow out, you should work closely with everyone involved to make sure you're fair to all the manufacturers, studios, and customers.
DrXym @ Feb 12th 2008 11:08AM
I read an interesting opinion piece on this today:
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36017/128/
"It is interesting to note that we are under embargo on some of these announcements, as they are planned to be made at the end of Q1 or in Q2. Given the situation, we can say that a handful of smaller movie studios told us that they would be supporting Blu-ray exclusively, but decided to hold back such an announcement as they were sitting on a pile of HD DVDs they still wanted to get rid of."
Time to start guessing which studios these might be.
Doc @ Feb 12th 2008 11:15AM
Toshiba has only themselves to blame here. Poor marketing IMO and only did they really try to do anything until the last minute. If your in a fight you do everything you can to compete, with cheaper titles and more titles being released for people to IDK ,buy! Plus joe 6-pack needs to see what is so different or special about your product since most people don't even understand that HD is even that much better than standard dvd's( as suprising as it sounds) Oh and IDK why didn't you rip blu-ray in your commericals? And tout universal features of your players vs. blu-ray's ever evolving standard. Did anyone at toshiba go to college?
andyg8180 @ Feb 12th 2008 11:26AM
good response... i read that they were trying to keep things clean and peaceful... But all is fair in love and war, so i completely agree with you... Toshiba has themselves to blame... Microsoft did a good job of sporting the HD-Drive, but toshiba always seemed to be hanging out on the sidelines like an 8th grade school dance...
Ryan @ Feb 12th 2008 12:09PM
You speak as if marketing or consumers actually mattered in this war. In the end it came down to the studios, which all chose sides for reasons beneficial to themselves and not the consumers.
In the end, the consumers played absolutely Z-E-R-O role in this "war".
Doc @ Feb 12th 2008 12:24PM
Ryan, It was totally marketing's fault. They had more studio support than sony in numbers; it was 11 total with indepentant studios or not and sony had themselves(3) and 4 more. You can spin things in your favor that is why I say attack sony's weak point in their players having inconsistant features and show what you can do. Plus the name HD-DVD is easy for joe 6-pack to understand. Blu-ray is more confusing for people to grap than HD-DVD.
Ian @ Feb 12th 2008 8:06PM
@ryan
are joking? how can consumers play 0% role in a product THEY are buying. you sound like an idiot. if everyone bought HD-DVD's and not blue ray you think the studios would have chosen blueray? i think not they would have gone with hd-dvd. now im not talking at all about who marketed better just the fact that you said consumers had "Z-E-R-O role in this war" that my friend is R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D
wireless.nemo @ Feb 12th 2008 11:17AM
LOL!
ryan @ Feb 12th 2008 11:21AM
i read toshiba is supposed to make an announcement today maybey theyll finally give up and throw in the towel the final nails are in hd dvd's coffin
Nfinity @ Feb 12th 2008 11:25AM
I don't understand what anyone expect for HD DVD Group to do? Go and say.. oh Netflix pleeeeeease come back.. or "ah who needs netflix".. I mean seriously.. bunch of morons..
They say what anyone would say "whatever". You do what you gotta do, we are doing what we are doing.
And these pathetic titles from Engadget authors are really sounding more and more idiotic.. seriously
"SAD LITTLE RESPONSE" what kind of title is that. What immature and sad reporting. Obviously Evan is like 5 years old.
D@n @ Feb 12th 2008 11:30AM
"SAD LITTLE RESPONSE" what kind of title is that
Accurate!
plozen @ Feb 12th 2008 11:32AM
Actually I think Even got it right. It was a pathetic attempt by the HD DVD PG. I don't really think this was a press release either, those are usually longer and accompanied by more information, this was simply a first response from the red camp.
Remember this is a blog, you want objective reporting go to the WSJ. Here, these people are supposed to report and give opinions.
I gave my own interpretation to the response:
http://philsplace.wordpress.com/
TFG @ Feb 12th 2008 11:35AM
You're right about this being an impartial objective news site, it ain't that...
As far as Toshiba is concerned, for a company with a better, more affordable product, you'd think they'd at least be able to hire a better PR firm to write up press releases. A company with all that money available to them should be bombarding us with more creative, enticing ads, etc...
I refuse to spend $400 on a Game System just to play movies (not a gamer, sorry), they should be playing off of that in ads and press releases...it may be time for "Coke vs Pepsi" mudslinging at this point. Play off of HD DVD's assets which are price, product, etc
Oh well, even if this is then end, it's not like I chose VHS over DVD. At the end of the day my HD DVD movies are still in high definition...
okeygrak @ Feb 12th 2008 11:49AM
Nfinity,
I entirely agree with you. Maybe you should have him over to your place for some workshops to teach him a thing or two about to write. You can call it the "Completely Irrational and Bitter Banter Fest while Typing in my Mommy's Basement Seminar, or Stuff".
Nfinity @ Feb 12th 2008 11:42AM
You people really need to like go to schools and shit.. I mean the amount of complete morons is unbelievable.
They don't give a SHIT about Netflix as it means crap.. Blockbuster ironically rents all HD DVDs online and at cheaper price. But none of this matters, people still need to buy players and for mass adoption to happen and that ain't going anywhere with incomplete and shit Blu-Ray players.
Netflix just effectively killed a LOT of their revenue. And old DVD members are canceling their subscriptions not to mention people recommending to their friends and families at what type of company Netflix really is. Blockbuster is kissing their ass now for doing this too. What a bunch of idiots at Netflix.
What's absolutely hilarious is that every one of you Blu tools thinks that this will end like next month. HD DVD will last and last even if nobody but Toshiba continued selling it online. The price and value + quality these players give is UNBELIEVABLE and there is not a single consumer that will buy $400+ player over a $100 HD DVD player with free movies even if Blu-Ray is somehow pushed as better format which is completely absurd.
Price = ALL THAT IT matters.. everything else will fit into place no matter how much Sony pays for temporary announcements and alliances like this.
Nfinity @ Feb 12th 2008 11:50AM
I agree TFG.. I just don't think they even need to put out a response.. actions need to be doing more then words.. and I think that recent sales EVERYWHERE are more valuable then Netflix idiots declaring their Blu-Ray alliance.
Right now.. there are so many sales for HD DVD it's not even funny:
1. Tiger Direct has giveaways of HD DVD players with TVs
2. Amazon has huge deals on movies and again lowered prices of HD DVD players
3. Best Buy is offering HD DVD BOGOs now from 10-16th February
4. Best Buy is also offering HD DVD starter tri-packs of movies for really good prices (movies come out to about $13)
5. Best Buy is giving an HD DVD player with Yamaha home theater audio setup and subwoofer
6. Toshiba is giving HD DVD players with TVs.
This is what counts.. all this marketing garbage is not going to matter for much longer. You buy what you can for your money and people can afford $100 HD player and $14 movies, they can't afford $400+ players and $25+ movies on Blu-Ray.
Obviously the price is a huge factor.. All Toshiba needs to do is continue pumping cheap stuff out until mainstream picks up.
There has been huge decline in HD sales since Warner announcement. Thanks to Blu of course. People will slowly pick up red again.. it's dirt cheap, high quality and offers superb experience not to mention the fact that HD movies you buy for the most work in DVD players. Done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jezzeaepi View Post
What I am cruious to see what effect in total HDM sales the warner decision has had in the passed month. Have sales been up as expected?
No, the sales are down, but I think this is because poor releases and numbers will go up again.
HDM sales by week:
01/06 463K
01/13 379K
01/20 241K
01/27 216K
02/03 199K
DrXym @ Feb 12th 2008 12:00PM
Nfinity, you're having a meltdown. Calm down and breathe deeply.
As for your amazing "giveaways", the clue is in the word "giveaway". Retailers are trying to get rid of HD DVD as fast as they can. This is unsurprising how fast things are unravelling for the format.
benny boy @ Feb 12th 2008 1:40PM
When are you going to give up Nfinity?
I think everyone's had enough of the constant spin.
MI @ Feb 12th 2008 2:42PM
I think the point you're missing is that everyone expects THIS response. It's pathetic, it's inevitable, and it's exactly what everyone expects.
I hate to break the news to you, but we saw your juvenile response coming a mile off too...
Firestarter @ Feb 12th 2008 3:56PM
Nfinity, there's one major flaw to your "slashing prices" logic. Slashing the prices just makes HD-DVD look like cheap technology compared to blu. Blu advocates can then hail the superiority of H.264 over VC-1, the superiority of bdJ over HDi, and the increased storage capacity.
Slashing the prices on everything is the worst thing that can be done, unless of course it's Microsoft paying the piper here. It's Microsoft and their anti-competitive nature pushing DRM, have you forgot Microsoft is the global leader in DRM...
qo_op @ Feb 12th 2008 7:47PM
PS3, enough said Nfinity.
Ross @ Feb 12th 2008 11:28AM
Blu Ray is winning the information war. Announcements by Netflix and BestBuy are meaningless just like Blockbuster's announcement a while back. My local Blockbuster has about 50/50 on Blu Ray and HD DVD titles, so all that BS was just part of information war. Retailers will be supporting the HD DVD until there is no more profit in it.
jody @ Feb 12th 2008 11:29AM
Dear Toshiba and the HD-DVD PG,
Please do one of two things:
1. Give up and tell Paramount and Universal to go Blu.
2. Get some nads and subsidize every new release for Paramount and Universal as HD DVD/ DVD TL combos so they can sell them at SDVD prices and only sell the combo (read no SDVD only option).
Thank You.
Pubeface McGee @ Feb 12th 2008 11:29AM
Like I said previously, unless HD DVD has David Copperfield tied up somewhere in a room, there isn't much magic for them to use.
I have a feeling that they've already called every major studio and offered them a nice contract offer to sway the other way.
Honestly, I hope, for the sake of their consumers they make it right somehow, some way. Maybe by offering a free visit to the Bunny Ranch or something.
Ian @ Feb 12th 2008 8:10PM
i like bunnys!!!
Chris @ Feb 12th 2008 11:30AM
The article is going to drive nf and tt nuts!!! all you blasted game counsule kiddies!! can we please just end this thing tosh!
mntwister @ Feb 12th 2008 11:31AM
Big mistakes made by the hd-dvd group:
1. Player prices should have been cut in half on Black Friday (Nov.23) not January 11.
2. Never should have cancelled CES press conference (never show you're down when in the fight)
3. Worked with Universal and Paramount to create a must-have release slate of new and catalog titles from Black Friday through the first quarter of 08 (abysmal schedule right now except for 3 hits)
4.Superbowl ad should have been a new killer ad, and for God's sake presented in high definition
5. Worked with (or paid) Para and Univ so that all releases in the 3rd and 4th quarters and 1st quarter of 2008 are combi discs (every dvd would have an hd-dvd included, whether separately or one on each side).
6. Get a new press representative and new press writer. Their press releases always say the same thing and indicate they are in trouble
7. Work much harder to make a deal with Microsoft to include hd-dvd inside the Xbox instead of an add-on
8. Get that 51gb disc on the market faster to allow for more extras and more uncompressed soundtracks like Blu-ray has, though to the Average Joe this may not be a big issue.
Watching this war as it went along, those are the things I sat back and watched Toshiba do wrong. Those are the areas I feel they made huge mistakes. When there is a war, you do everything possible to win, I don't think Toshiba did that, and certainly Paramount and Universal, at the critical times (after Black Friday) did not give it their all. Why didn't Paramount release Grease, Titanic, Ten Commandments, and a huge schedule of films that the masses knew well and craved? Or Universal could have released a Hitchcock series. Look at the release schedule since January, it's awful except for 3 hits. I am not saying all of these things would have generated wide consumer adoption, but it would have helped.
I give where credit is due. The hd-dvd group had their act together with their players. Required was Dolby True, Ethernet and interactivity. All their players were reasonably priced. All players provided full function, differences were only in added features like DTS MA, ect. The BDA should have, by now, mandated 1.1 and 2.0 in all players from Thanksgiving-on. Now there are many different profiles out there. The BDA is going to have to work very hard to make sure all of this changes quickly!
I was very close to getting a hd-dvd player when Paramount switched. I didn't end up making the investment until after the holidays and by then Warner switched and I feared what is happening now, so I took the player back as I hadn't bought any movies yet.
DrXym @ Feb 12th 2008 11:41AM
Regarding 2), I think the HD DVD camp really had some fireworks ready for CES. My guess is they were going to reveal Warner & Fox were in the bag and an HD DVD enabled 360. The slides that they *were* going to show would be amazing to read.
But when Warner kicked them in the balls they really had nothing to talk about and just had to cancel. Even the MS keynote seemed padded.
Maybe Harry Turtledove can write an alternate history about HD DVD winning. If not him then I'm sure the truth will appear in print some day.
Mike Peluso @ Feb 12th 2008 11:53AM
I agree completely. The fault with all of these problems does not lie with Toshiba or MS.. the apparent failure of this format lies squarely in the hands of Universal, & Paramount.
okeygrak @ Feb 12th 2008 11:32AM
Super Secret Breaking News:
Toshiba's Ace in the Hole : PROFILE 2.0 HD-DVD players!
Profile 2.0 :
- Includes Blu-Ray playback
DrXym @ Feb 12th 2008 12:02PM
I think Toshiba will announce a range of Blu Ray players that will be hybrids. It makes sense to do it. It won't turn their own format around but it will still be a selling point when existing HD DVD owners want to upgrade and preserve their collection of movies.
Geoffrey Sperl @ Feb 12th 2008 11:35AM
"...how does Toshiba move forward in a world almost completely dominated by its rival in blue?"
They become Blu-ray player licensees and they create a strong HD-DVD/BD hybrid player and market themselves as the best way to transition from HD-DVD to BD. There are enough HD-DVD discs out there that Toshiba could make a decent amount of money by focusing on making the best consumer-prices hybrid player that can handle the full features of each spec.
If they do so graciously then they can still find themselves as a player in the marketplace. If they drag their feet and whine, holding onto the same tired lines Truth Teller and Nfinity keep regurgitating, then they will be relegated to the sidelines until the time comes for a new generation format (if that ever occurs).
Really, it's no longer a question of it ending - the writing is on the wall with that. It's now a question if Toshiba and the rest of the HD-DVD camp can acquit themselves in a reasonable manner that doesn't screw over their customers or make it sound like they're sore losers.
JimC @ Feb 12th 2008 11:41AM
HDDVD - "Am I dead?"
The World - "Yes, 'fraid so ol' chap, sorry."
HDDVD - "Oh, bugger..."
HedonismBot @ Feb 12th 2008 11:46AM
Hmm, well they could hint at "big things to come" or the "good news for HD-DVD in coming weeks", or fall back on their "major new campaign". I don't know, maybe something to give HD-DVD supporters a leg to stand on?
Bob P. @ Feb 12th 2008 12:14PM
If they're looking for people to hire that can spin any bad news into good they should hire nfinity & tt. Well actually, maybe they already have. I've suspected they've been paid spinners from the start.
lucyfan62 @ Feb 12th 2008 1:03PM
Like someone replied to me a while back, those guys are more likely paid by the BDA to make the HD DVD camp look bad with their insane rantings!
ProfWho @ Feb 12th 2008 12:15PM
So who is crazier, Truth Teller or Nifinty?
SoCButter @ Feb 12th 2008 12:16PM
I am very happy with my Toshiba A35 and sadden by this news . Meanwhile my OPPO DV-981HD upconverting DVD player will have to suffice until such time as Blu-ray player prices and performance equal or surpass my A35.
Bob P. @ Feb 12th 2008 12:19PM
[thud]
[clang]
CART MASTER:
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
[cough cough...]
[clang]
[...cough cough]
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead! Ninepence.
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out...
[rewr!]
...your dead!
[rewr!]
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
CUSTOMER:
Here's one.
CART MASTER:
Ninepence.
HD-DVD:
I'm not dead!
CART MASTER:
What?
CUSTOMER:
Nothing. Here's your ninepence.
HD-DVD:
I'm not dead!
CART MASTER:
'Ere. He says he's not dead!
CUSTOMER:
Yes, he is.
HD-DVD:
I'm not!
CART MASTER:
He isn't?
CUSTOMER:
Well, he will be soon. He's very ill.
HD-DVD:
I'm getting better!
CUSTOMER:
No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
CART MASTER:
Oh, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
HD-DVD:
I don't want to go on the cart!
CUSTOMER:
Oh, don't be such a baby.
CART MASTER:
I can't take him.
HD-DVD:
I feel fine!
CUSTOMER:
Well, do us a favour.
CART MASTER:
I can't.
CUSTOMER:
Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
CART MASTER:
No, I've got to go to the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today.
CUSTOMER:
Well, when's your next round?
CART MASTER:
Thursday.
HD-DVD:
I think I'll go for a walk.
CUSTOMER:
You're not fooling anyone, you know. Look. Isn't there something you can do?
HD-DVD: [singing]
I feel happy. I feel happy.
[whop]
CUSTOMER:
Ah, thanks very much.
CART MASTER:
Not at all. See you on Thursday.