Germany's CDA starts production of 3X DVD
Comin' straight outta Thuringia is the first news we've heard in a year about HD DVD's red-laser cousin, 3X DVD. CDA Datenträger Albrechts GmbH has announced its started production of 3X DVDs, which are basically HD content, compressed with VC-1 or MPEG-4 and AACS DRM, on a standard red laser DVD that is readable only by HD DVD players. The advantage is that it costs the same to produce as a regular DVD, and CDA is apparently producing dual-sided DVD-10 discs, with standard DVD content on one side, and HD on the other. Of course, with several German studios dropping HD DVD support (along with a few others you may have heard of) its hard to see who will take advantage of CDA's new capabilities.[Via EMediaLive]
Filed under: HD DVD
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
ProfWho @ Feb 12th 2008 3:48PM
Why?
NeonGo @ Feb 12th 2008 3:53PM
It looks like the HD DVD group does everything to make HD affordable to the masses and they succeed. With much lower player prices and lower disc prices already available. Don't give up on them yet!
shawnmos @ Feb 12th 2008 3:59PM
More proof that HD DVD is the superior format. Too bad that's not what wins a format war.
regeya @ Feb 12th 2008 4:41PM
Dumb question: If Blu-Ray players are so great, and if they can play VC-1 and play old DVDs, what's stopping Blu-Ray players from playing these? Constantly evolving spec, new changes just a firmware upgrade away...what's the holdup, guys? Or is it possible, and y'all are just getting desperate for anti-HD DVD fodder for the continuing hatchet job? Or is it not possible at all, and boo hoo, if this were to take off, it might put a nick in Blu-Ray's armor? Or is it just that Blu already has a similar-yet-incompatible format and NIH (Not Invented Here) Syndrome is in play?
Sounds like the format that WB was asking for a few years ago, but instead got HD DVD.
DrXym @ Feb 12th 2008 4:52PM
BD9 is Blu Ray's equivalent. In other words both formats offer something similar.
aplen22 @ Feb 12th 2008 5:20PM
@regeya
You answered your own question, "what's holding us up?"
"Constantly evolving specs"
Toshiba launched with finalized specs and in my opinion a superior platform, I will elaborate. The hardware was cheaper for the consumer from the beginning, and ALL discs were guaranteed to work on ALL players, this is why ethernet and firmware update capabilities were mandatory from the beginning.
If the BDA was so concerned about the consumer then they would have been all over Samsung from the launch of their first players, it was NOT an unknown fact that they were buggy and defective, instead Sammy is now being sued by a consumer who had enough.
Technically speaking, in my eyes there is nothing wrong with Blu. Profile 2.0 will finally be up to par with HD DVD. It was how the BDA conducted themselves that left a bitter taste. If they truly cared about the consumer then first they would have met Toshiba's demands that they made that would have prevented this war. The demands were...
- Use the less expensive laser that HD DVD uses to keep costs down
- Use HDi instead of BD-Java because it's less complex to code and far more superior.
"At this particular point in time, we've been able to supply more features with HDi and HD DVD than with BD-Java and Blu-ray Disc. What we have typically done in practice is that we've created the interactive scenarios in HD DVD and then tried to pull them into Blu-ray. But that has not been entirely possible: Some things we can do in HDi are not supported in BD-Java. If you're going to do BD-Java, you need someone who's capable of programming at a low level. With HDi, you don't need somebody with that additional level of training. We don't need programmers to code our discs."
- Alan Bell, Paramount CTO
Not only would have agreeing to these demand have avoided a format war, but they would have been better for the consumer as well. But it was Sony's stubborn pigheadedness that made the BDA go with their far more "superior" hardware specs.
So there you go, if you need me to elaborate on any further points just let me know. I hope most Blu fanboys will read this with an open mind and see why Sony never did care about them, they just wanted your money from day one. And please don't say that Sony does care because the PS3 is updatable to Profile 2.0. It just proves that if you bought one that they used you as a tool to keep their failing video game console afloat. While you have no games to play, i'll just go enjoy my Wii.
roger_huston @ Feb 13th 2008 2:18AM
Funny, you sound surprised. Seen that a lot here, people discussing the technical merits of one format over the other.
When did we start believing that the best one would win? Is that how George Bush got elected president (twice) because he was the best person for the job?
It was never about the spec. It was never about which one was "better" It never is. It is about money, power and influence. Always.
I must say, it has been fun watching the debate, this is better, that is better. In the end, it made no difference. It was never about us, what we thought, what we liked. Get over it.
- Roger
BrokenFERN @ Feb 12th 2008 4:09PM
WOW!!! I didn't realize news traveled that slow overseas.
Hey Germany, just to let you know, they included a blu-ray player in the PS3, Warner announced that Blu only was for them, best buy b1tch slapped hddvd, and the war is now over.
Ron @ Feb 12th 2008 4:10PM
Well at least a person can rent HD-DVD's through Netflix.....opps...errrr
jody @ Feb 12th 2008 4:14PM
WHAT??????
Why is this blogworthy? And why deos it even exist? I mean is a HD-DVD really going to cost more to make than these things?
Jim @ Feb 12th 2008 4:28PM
I do this at home all the time with HD home movies and OTA HD recordings. Works great especially on DL DVD media. It's why I chose HD-DVD over Blu for my first HD player. Blu-Ray supposedly has some mysterious BD-9 standard, but I think it requires AVCHD and only exists as a paper standard. 3X DVD lets you burn any supported HD codec. Re-encoding takes way too long. I just split to a second DVD if needed.
srw @ Feb 12th 2008 5:01PM
BD-9 works just fine now on the PS3, so if someone wants to start pressing those, go ahead. BD-9 is not the same as AVCHD, but AVCHD also works.
DrXym @ Feb 12th 2008 5:10PM
Apps like Cyberlink 6 and Nero 8 claim burning support for BD-9 so I suggest it's already quite doable if you want it.
Jim @ Feb 12th 2008 5:44PM
it was a sort of paper standard over a year ago when I was looking at it. I read someplace that it had to be encoded/converted to AVCHD in order to use BD-9. Hopefully mpeg2 will work. Thanks for the update.
Killer @ Feb 12th 2008 6:01PM
@ProfWho
"Why?"
Why not? I don't understand this idea that a company/group spending millions upon millions on something would just call it quits? (Toshiba is not Microsoft (to a point, they don't do it all the time)) Seriously, that is one reason you're not making buisness decisions. Until everyone drops the format then its over. Till then, why is it wrong for them to keep fighting? You can't tell me that if you had a product that was slowing down you wouldn't try everything? If you answer "I would just give up" then every stockholder and employee in capitalism is GLAD that you aren't making the decisions. I see nothing wrong in putting out all the stops, it's promising to see the commitment.
DrXym @ Feb 13th 2008 5:35AM
It's not so much calling it quits but "refocussing". HD DVD is a lost cause for general public consumption. The bad news isn't about to stop and therre is no point Toshiba throwing good money after bad.
Just like Betamax for Sony, they'll have to get inventive and figure out ways of salvaging something from the mess they're in. Maybe they'll cosy up to the Chinese domestic market that Truth Teller is always babbling about. Maybe HD DVD can find a role in studio production, or as a PC backup solution. Maybe Toshiba should just build the best damned Blu Ray player (with HD DVD support of course) and outsell the hell out of the rest of the CE industry.
But HD DVD for general consumption is kaput.
Truth Teller @ Feb 12th 2008 6:28PM
3X is a very nice development for small and independent studios.
It's about very low cost entry to a high def format and it is starting to get used around the world.
Good to see the discs coming on line.
Joel_O @ Feb 12th 2008 7:59PM
@aplen22
"- Use the less expensive laser that HD DVD uses to keep costs down"
Where does this info come from? HD DVD uses the same laser as Blu ray! The only thing that makes HD DVD cheaper is the fact of the physical properties. HD DVD is similar to DVD because of where the disc substrait is (ie, the reading layer is in the middle of the disc) as opposed to Blu ray where the substrait is at the bottom edge of the disc.
"- Use HDi instead of BD-Java because it's less complex to code and far more superior."
HDi is not a superior code and everyone knows that. More companies use Java because its a flexable code. The only reason why HD DVD is using HDi and touting it as superior is because Microsoft created it! Microsoft doesnt want Java to be mandatory in the future, because it will intrude on "their" coding territory namely Windows!
"At this particular point in time, we've been able to supply more features with HDi and HD DVD than with BD-Java and Blu-ray Disc. But that has not been entirely possible: Some things we can do in HDi are not supported in BD-Java. If you're going to do BD-Java, you need someone who's capable of programming at a low level. With HDi, you don't need somebody with that additional level of training. We don't need programmers to code our discs."
Well you are correct on the whole "...able to supply more features" but thats because BD-Java wasnt implemented! Thats like having a competition with yourself! I would like to see the competition outcome now! The whole "Some things we can do in HDi are not supported in BD-Java," thats bull! the only thing that would make that true is the fact that they are different in code thats all. "With HDi, you don't need somebody with that additional level of training." Well that can be taken both ways. One being that it takes more time in developement, or as I see it, it shows and exploits the most out of the capabilites when additional training is used, instead of having just another DVD with HD content.
Killer @ Feb 12th 2008 8:47PM
@Joel_O
"HDi is not a superior code and everyone knows that. More companies use Java because its a flexable code. The only reason why HD DVD is using HDi and touting it as superior is because Microsoft created it! Microsoft doesnt want Java to be mandatory in the future, because it will intrude on "their" coding territory namely Windows!"
What I'm about to say is my opinion and only that. As an owner of a HD DVD player (HD-A35) and a Blu-ray player (Panasonic BD30K). I have found Java to be very annoying compared to HDi. Now, I know that it could be the player (which it could be, but it is fully updated) but Java is slow compared to HDi. HDi seems to flow, its quicker to the menu during a movie and everything. Unless Java Live (which is mostly internet) is like HDi in speed and flow when it releases, I'm going to be really angry at Sony. I chose to jump into this war, because I thought that it was going to be seamless menus. That's what I hated about DVD, so I was very intrigued about the Next-Gen. Sadly, though Blu-ray has been out for this long and the menus remain the same. I also realize the main reason for the choice of Java. It is not because of the easy of use, its in Sony's interest. Sony uses alot of Java in their Products. Example: Java allows Blu-ray to have a copy that can be downloaded to the PSP. Make no mistake, everything that is Blu-ray is going right back in Sony's favor. Don't get me wrong though, I would have it that why to, if I was betting my whole company on Blu-ray. I'm just saying Java wasn't picked mainly on the idea of friendliness. It was all about what it can do for Sony. Why do you think Sony turned down the idea to end the war before it started, by just excepting HDi? They wanted to go for the whole cake, and so far it seems like they're eating the cake and HD DVD is on the corner eating the icing swirls.
Killer @ Feb 12th 2008 8:51PM
Correction: "Accepting" not "Excepting"
j3r3mY @ Feb 12th 2008 11:45PM
OH NO! We suck again!
Joe @ Feb 13th 2008 3:35AM
This could be the technology that gets HD DVD back in the game. Part of the reason people are hesitating to move to either HD format is not the price of the players, although that is a part of it, but because the movies cost 2x-3x or more than standard DVD movies. If Toshiba can coordinate with these people and use this technology to sell HD content at standard DVD prices, Blu Ray won't be able to compete.
Iridium @ Feb 13th 2008 2:57PM
You still have to buy a HD movie player to play the discs. Its not like you can play a 3X DVD on a standard DVD player. That pretty much means that 3X-DVD is just as irrelevant as BD-9. Why would you pay the same money for a lower quality disc to play in a player capable of more. You would probably get better results upscaling a high quality DVD transfer, so just buy the DVD.
Even though the file has HD resolution it is not the same quality as a HD-DVD or BluRay encode. It would be closer to what you would get with a HD download. For those saying that downloads are the future, why would you buy a 3X-DVD if the download is the same quality? I get it becuase 3X-DVD is a HD-DVD spec, so it is far superior to downloads or anything BluRay.
The only reason why HD-DVD and BLuRay movie prices are high right now is because of volume. Once BluRay starts to move more meida the price of the discs will come down. Part of the reason is B&M stores inflating the cost. If Amazon can sell almost every BluRay movie for $24-30, Best Buy can too. By Christmas the average BluRay price should be $19.99 with catalog titles selling for $14.99-17.99. That would put it in line with DVD.