Nielsen VideoScan High-Def market share for week ending February 3rd, 2008

Not sure if we're ready to say HD DVD is back in the fight again, but for the third week in a row, the red camp has slowly been crawling out of the dismal hole that Warner helped put them in, according to the Nielsen VideoScan numbers courtesy of Home Media Magazine. What is even more surprising is the fact that for the first time in a month, two HD DVDs made the top ten list -- but judging by which titles made it, we're not sure how much there is to get excited about in the red camp. Sure, the legs that Transformers and The Bourne Supremacy has is impressive, but we wonder how many were sold to new HD DVD owners when picking up a low cost player, and how many were offered in a sale or promotion. We'd wager that the biggest factor at play here is disappointing Blu-ray sales. Warner can't be too happy with The Invasion, but not its not as disappointed as Sony is Daddy Day Camp. Sure we knew these weren't good movies, but both were in the top six on the DVD sales charts the same week. Now we get to wait and see if this red comeback trend continues in the face of a more impressive Blu lineup the following week, because if red comes back any more, the 74/26 split will be back to 65/35 before we know it.























Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Ron @ Feb 8th 2008 12:44PM
Start 400 comment thread :)
Truth Teller @ Feb 8th 2008 9:59PM
Far more news worthy is the story (start?) of Samsung/Blu-ray getting sued for defective players.
Where's that story Engadget?
*******************************************************************************
Quote -
A class action lawsuit filed earlier this week (.pdf) against Samsung claims the company has knowingly sold defective Blu-ray players to the public since June 2006.
The lead plaintiff in the case, Bob McGovern, says he purchased his BD-01200 Samsung Blu-ray player last summer and was subsequently unable to view "numerous Blu-ray disc titles," a fact he attributes to the player's "defective design and/or manufacture."
Lead attorneys in the case also note that there have since been a number of similar complaints levied against the company concerning the inoperability of certain Buy-ray disc titles. In some cases, Samsung has also verified that it does not intend to provide future firmware updates to correct these issuesand hence the lawsuit.
http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/02/samsung-sued-ov.html
Larry @ Feb 9th 2008 11:37AM
Wow, look at the Amazon stats!!! In the last week HD-DVD has come back to almost level with Blu-Ray:
http://eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm
Truth Commenter @ Feb 10th 2008 2:36AM
TruthTeller-Dave: "Where's this story Engadget?"
1) Again you're off topic bigtime posting this
Samsung comment here.
2) Engadget did writeup this story elsewhere
without needing any prompts from you.
3) If you don't like objectivity and Engadget's
proven fair treatment of subject matter, then
go post on sites that favor your biases.
Don't blame the press for the news!
xolan99 @ Feb 8th 2008 12:45PM
The Bourne Supremacy or the Bourne Ultimatum?
If it were the Bourne Ultimatum, I would see the legitimacy...but the Bourne Supremacy???
Something's fishy.
Devils Advocate @ Feb 8th 2008 12:48PM
Wow, HD-DVD is really coming on strong now.
With only a 3:1 brutal slaughter, Warner must be coming back to HD-DVD. Fox will follow then Disney.
Its over for bluray.
Its time to let Nfinity and Truth Teller gloat.
They are todays real winners.
xolan99 @ Feb 8th 2008 12:49PM
I'm pretty sure Bourne Supremacy is part of a bundle with the HD DVD...
If so, let's see if they take back their statements about Blu-ray standalones not counting with HDTV purchases...
Matthew Berg @ Feb 8th 2008 1:28PM
@xolan99
No, The Bourne Identity is the bundled title. Wouldn't be surprising if hundreds of thousands of people getting a copy of the first movie might result in a fair number of them picking up the sequel.
xolan99 @ Feb 8th 2008 1:35PM
@ Matthew Berg :
All on the same week?
Doubtful.
John @ Feb 8th 2008 2:27PM
BR fanboys, you know what that means, right ? Correct, we can count on new BR studios BOGOs every time a big title comes out on HD DVD. Next BR BOGO : february 19th (American Gangster). Following BR BOGO : february 26th (Beowulf).
Sure Ben conveniently won't be mentioning the BR BOGOs then when the Nielsen numbers come out ;)
mntwister @ Feb 8th 2008 4:21PM
John, Who the heck cares how blu-ray got it's numbers or by which sales. You're really a fool for this thinking because number 1. blu-ray won every single week of the year in 2007, BOGO or not. Number 2, who cares if the blu-ray battled hd-dvd with BOGO sales, it worked didn't it? And it got Warner Brothers too, lol. What you're really spitting on was in reality a brilliant strategy. I don't think the Gangster or any hd-dvd title are enough to win a week anymore for hd-dvd, but if they post a BOGO sale for blu-ray, I am right there to buy some blu's!!!!!
anon @ Feb 8th 2008 4:45PM
@ mntwister,
So let me get this straight. "who cares if the blu-ray battled hd-dvd with BOGO sales, it worked didn't it? And it got Warner Brothers too, lol. What you're really spitting on was in reality a brilliant strategy." But if HD DVD has a BOGO or a half off, it's a clearance sale to get rid of everything before the format dies like everyone keeps saying (when exactly is that "prediction" coming true by the way? It just makes all of you sound dumb), and in fact NOT the same brilliant strategy? O.....K.... That makes no sense at all.... I realize you didn't say that, but a lot of people do. Why the double standard?
Legolas6669 @ Feb 8th 2008 5:46PM
In Germany you can get Beowulf on Blu-ray because Warner is distributing it here on a regioncode-free Blu-ray Disc :-)
regeya @ Feb 8th 2008 10:19PM
@mntwister:
"John, Who the heck cares how blu-ray got it's numbers or by which sales. You're really a fool for this thinking because number 1. blu-ray won every single week of the year in 2007, BOGO or not. Number 2, who cares if the blu-ray battled hd-dvd with BOGO sales, it worked didn't it? And it got Warner Brothers too, lol. What you're really spitting on was in reality a brilliant strategy."
Soooo...if HD DVD does it, it's desperation, clearance, firesale, etc. But when Blu manufacturers deeply discounted software (you know, where the money's at) that's brilliant strategy...
I don't doubt that I'll be buying a Blu player within the year, but...damn, you Blu-Ray fanboys are douches.
"I don't think the Gangster or any hd-dvd title are enough to win a week anymore for hd-dvd, but if they post a BOGO sale for blu-ray, I am right there to buy some blu's!!!!!"
Here, I'll use the typical Blu-Ray fanboy spin: BOGOs are a sign they're desperate for sales, because they're still not winning enough people away from DVD. There, I said it. Doesn't make me right, but I said it, so it must be fact, right? Um, I know a guy who told me that and he knows things. Yeah. Chump.
HD4ME @ Feb 9th 2008 1:00AM
You better get used to HD DVD having several movies constantly in the top 5 with a reasonable market share, because by the time warner turns blue, 1.5 million HD DVD supporters will have no choice but to buy up Paramount and Universal,they aren't all going to magically run out and drop $4-600 on a BR player in any hurrry!
Aren't those 2 studios going to clean up post warner, they have a captive and rapidly growing audience!
CassilineKnight @ Feb 8th 2008 12:54PM
Thats kinda impressive...
RockinOscar @ Feb 8th 2008 12:55PM
i am just as surprised... bourne supremacy? HD DVD hasn't had any releases worth purchasing for the last month and yet they still sell... nfinity and trutht eller don't have to say anything.
andyj @ Feb 8th 2008 12:57PM
Warner is currently still releasing titles on HD DVD. Starting June 1st, this will end.
The only chance HD DVD has to show any signs of improvement are between now and then. But either way, it's pointless. HD DVD is dead, they know it, it's just a matter of time until all of the customers who were tricked into buying one of their obsolete players realizes.
CassilineKnight @ Feb 8th 2008 12:58PM
Ahh THERE it is...
Round 1 Begins...FIGHT
anon @ Feb 8th 2008 1:16PM
What Warner release was there in the last few weeks to suggest that Warner had anything to do with the increase?
HiFiFreak @ Feb 8th 2008 1:27PM
andyj,
I wasnt tricked and I am fully aware of the current state of HD DVD.
I sat on the sidelines up till now because I wanted to only invest in the clear winner. But that was when it was much more costly to invest in either format. Now I can get both Blue and Red and enjoy ALL the movies that are out there with a fraction of the investment ($121 for an HD DVD and 7 free movies...come on) and (if you look around) I picked up a Panasonic BD30 for peanuts ($99 open box @ Best Buy). Hell, even if both formats perish I dont figure to lose much. I still get to watch my movies until the players die. I personally think that dual format players will be more common and at lower and lower prices. In which my movies will still be good to go.
John B @ Feb 8th 2008 2:05PM
"all of the customers who were tricked into buying one of their obsolete players realizes."
Ah, yes. Yet ANOTHER arrogant, condescending remark towards anyone who bought HD DVD. Go ahead. Keep proving that the BD crowd is nothing but a bunch of sore winners.
For your information, I bought my HD-A2 knowing full well that the format might lose. For $98, it was a minimal premium over a regular, upscaling DVD player. No one "tricked" me into buying it. The choice was simple and I don't even consider it a risk when some upscaling players cost MORE than I paid for my HD-A2. Additionally, this player will never be obsolete as long as it still upscales regular DVDs.
Get off your damned high horse.
HiFiFreak @ Feb 8th 2008 1:04PM
I just bought the A3 and it comes with 300 and Bourne Identity.
But I did also buy Transformer and Bourne Supremacy (Best Buy BOGO deal) so Ben is on to something when he states
", but we wonder how many were sold to new HD DVD owners when picking up a low cost player, and how many were offered in a sale or promotion."
On a side note I just picked up a Panasonic BD30 for $99 using some reward zone points at BB (open box) now i am good to go on both fronts.
Sash @ Feb 8th 2008 1:06PM
Not surprising, this was to be expected with all the HD-DVD hardware and media liquidation, prices for the Xbox HD addon below $120, all those BOGO sales for HD-DVD (this time on Amazon, B&N, etc.), the HD-DVD Superbowl advertisement... But still, its one of the final gasps of air for HD-DVD. And its quite understandable, HD-DVD players at that price are equally as expensive as ordinary DVD players, and those thinking of buying a DVD player might as well by a HD-DVD player with all the extra movies they get with it, I would too, I'd just see a HD-DVD player as a nice DVD player.
I find a lot of HD related news sites still focus too much on what happens in the US when in Europe Blu-Ray player and media market share is like 90% all over, similarly in Japan.
Matthew Berg @ Feb 8th 2008 1:32PM
The Superbowl would hardly effect sales for the week ending on February 3rd. :)
As for promotions, that goes for both sides. Amazon and Best Buy has had sales on both formats, and a number of manufacturers were giving away free BD players with new HDTVs.
ProfWho @ Feb 8th 2008 1:09PM
How long before two posters tell us HD-DVD is now "winning?"
Truth Teller @ Feb 8th 2008 1:10PM
Once again HD DVD recovers and improves on this year's low point.
(btw the mail-in freebies discs do not count on these numbers)
JimC @ Feb 8th 2008 1:42PM
There are bound to be small rebounds but the overall trend will be down, mark my words...
Truth Commenter @ Feb 8th 2008 2:10PM
to TruthTeller - Dave
Great! Now you can go out and buy some
movies. I'm sure watching them will be
a lot more fun than constant posting to
spin format war news
whoelse @ Feb 8th 2008 1:18PM
i remember Bourne and transformers on the advert last Sunday!
Anyway, this isn't a comeback. Its because of the sales... and the 3 million dollar advert.
anon @ Feb 8th 2008 1:21PM
The 360 add-on dropped it's price on the 6th. These numbers are for the week ending the 3rd. Same with the Amazon and B&N BOGO's, they were after the 3rd. Especially since the B&N one just started. So I expect next weeks red numbers to be higher. Not by a ton, but still, maybe back to what they were before Warner said they were going Blu.
And it's called a price drop, not a liquidation.
anon @ Feb 8th 2008 1:24PM
This was supposed to be in response to Sash. Curse you, long week!!!
anon @ Feb 8th 2008 1:32PM
Wow, I keep messing up. I didn't realize that I lumped the Amazon and B&N BOGO's (half off, same thing) together in my comment. The Amazon one has been on for a week and a half or so, and the B&N one just started. But it looks like Amazon did just add some movies to their deal.
John B @ Feb 8th 2008 1:31PM
These numbers would be put much more in perspective if the actual number of units sold was also listed. Having two HD DVDs on the list does give one pause, but if we're talking about an abnormally small number of HDM discs in total that would make their inclusion less impressive.
Oh, and as to the Bourne Supremacy being on there, does that week include Best Buy's BOGO? I'm pretty sure that their BOGO included the Bourne movies.
Joe @ Feb 8th 2008 1:34PM
Looking at the ratios and saying HD-DVD is making a comeback is,just a bit, stupid.
To make up ground on lost market HD-DVD needs to sell more than BD. You will need to see a week of 49%bd 51%hd before ANY ground is made up.
A simple analogy. There are 2 cars in a cross country race. Each driving non-stop.
Car one starts at 65 mph and car 2 at 35mph. In two hours car one has gone 130 miles and car 2 70miles. Now car 2 has engine trouble and slows to 10mph. Car one continues along at its speed for another 2 hours. Car one travels 260 total miles and car 2 90 miles total. Car 2 now fixes it's engine trouble and is back at 35 mph. In 2 more hours car 1 has gone 390 miles and car 2 160 miles.
Each hours the distance between car one and car two is increasing. For car 2 to catch up the distance between car 1 and car 2 needs to actually decrease. In this example car 2 is always loosing ground. The distance is always increasing.
This applies to the format war as well. Toshiba needs to win weeks to actually close the gap. Anything less is the opposite as catching up.
TJ @ Feb 8th 2008 1:38PM
Wow, if HD DVD can maintain this momentum, they'll have 100% of sales in 90 days!
All joking aside, HiFiFreak a Panasonic DMP-BD30 for $99 is a pretty insanely good deal, even if its an open item. I have a PS3 now, but I've been eyeing that player for a while now, hoping for a good deal (I'll move the PS3 to the bedroom to have a second BD Player there, and use the Panasonic as my primary player). I'm pretty shocked you got one for LESS than your HD DVD player, and a setup with a BD Player AND an HD DVD player for under $250 is pretty awesome, regardless of which format comes out on top. I have to admit I'm keeping my Xbox 360 HD DVD player around on the promise of the upcoming Sweeney Todd HD DVD.
HiFiFreak @ Feb 8th 2008 1:46PM
TJ,
It was actually 299 open box, but I had some reward zone points to go against it (I actually ended up getting it for 76 with tax). I have been looking at the open box bins for a while for this player and I would have pulled the triger with or without the reward zone points @ 299. I have been thinking of the PS3 but would rather wait for a good 2.0 standalone when they start coming out. Good luck in your hunting.
Sash @ Feb 8th 2008 1:47PM
Ah well, but even so, aside from those BOGO deals, the US is not the only decisive factor in the war. The outcome has already been pretty much decided in Europe and Japan too. And also, I think a lot of DVD/HD-DVD player buyers are following the logic I mentioned in my previous post above.
This guys know what its about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frZTf3mX97c
indadogghouse @ Feb 8th 2008 1:52PM
What I find kind of interesting is the aggregate top 10 is:
1) Planet Earth HD DVD/BD
2) 3:10 BD
3) 300 HD DVD/BD
4) Pirates BD
5) The Invasion HD DVD/BD
6) Saw IV BD
7) Transformers HD DVD
8) Supremacy HD DVD
9) Game Plan BD
10) Ratatouille BD
Seeing that Invasion isn't even suppose to be available on HD DVD yet, how is it 5th overall? It also has terrible reviews.
Was Warner's decision to go exclusive too premature?
These studios, if they really cared 'bout the consumer, they would make all their movies available on all formats, BR, HD DVD, HD VMD ;). In this case, it would definitely be the consumer who decides.
Also, people who get in on the HD DVD player buys, good for them. Tricked? Uninformed? Not at these prices. If I'm on the fence and I see an HD player for $99(A3), that's much more afordable then $399. Obsolete? You can argue the same for the $399 unit (not profile 2.0), but I saved $300. You can still watch all movies, just not all in HD. Or I can just keep waiting and waiting and waiting, if price is an issue for me.
Blu-ray only owners, why not just go buy yourselves a cheap HD player and be set for the near term? If you could afford a Blu-ray player, you must be able to afford one of these units? Who cares about the format war? It's over anyway, right? And don't give me this jive 'bout BR looks better than HD DVD or 1080i not 1080p. VC1 and AVC are comparable in various tests performed. Good chance that your HDTV 1080p will be perfectly capable of deinterlacing the 1080i signal to retrieve that 1080p encoding so...
So much ado 'bout nothing. Eh, just gives people something to talk and discuss and argue and fight about, I guess.
HedonismBot @ Feb 8th 2008 2:09PM
Expect next week's HD-DVD numbers to be even stronger. A post on AVS forum alerted me to the existence of this site:
http://eproductwars.com
Which maintains a nifty tracking of Amazon sales ranks. Between 2/2 and 2/3, HD gained mightily on the blu-ray sales rankings, which coincided with a new HD-DVD sale at Amazon. You could attribute this to the Superbowl ad, but in fact the increase started before the Superbowl even aired (the 24-hour rankings are more granular, and I checked them out on 2/4, the boost began early in the morning on 2/3, 6-8 hours before the SB ad ran).
This is as expected - flood the market with cheap players and you had damn well better see some increase in disc sales. Nonetheless, these increases are based on players sold at a loss and media sold very close to a loss (1/2 off or BOGO). The other thing to note is that without sales in place, Blu-rays have been selling at a fairly consistent clip, whereas HD-DVD fluctuates wildly depending on the sales being offered. The items in the top 10 reflect first-purchases for new player owners, at least Transformers is considered a must-have by many, and while Bourne is a surprise, Planet Earth is not to be expected as in many cases it costs >50% of what the player did :)
Yes, the HD-DVD campaign (by which I mean the cheap players, because that ad was awful and aired in SD in far too many markets), is having a noticeable impact. Next week should see the Videoscan closer to the 2007 average based on the eProductwars charts for this week. But once that sale is gone, I think we'll see HD-DVD slip again. The prognosis is still not good.
DEEZNUTZ @ Feb 8th 2008 2:30PM
That's why I think another year of this stupid fight is ridiculous. The best claim HD DVD supporters will ever have this entire year is that "we are now back to 2007's YE 65:35 BD/HD DVD split, what a come back!!!"
Studios and retailers have other plans for this format war. IMO, by the end of Q1, you will see some clear indications from retailers about exclusive support for BD. You can scream about anti-consumer and payoff's till your face is BLU, but the reality is that retailers are in it for a profit. Profit margins for BD are just better, and that is a fact. If BD players are "too expensive" as a few HD DVD fans claim, how come BD standalones (and the numbers DON'T include PS3's) continue to trounce standalones in sales? HD DVD has a clear price advantage, and still can't manage to overtake BD players on sales, even for a week. That's a clear indicator for retailers and studios... they pay close attention to these figures and trends and will take decisions based on these trends.
It's a no brainer right now for retailers. "Hmmm, do I keep reordering those $129 HD DVD players, which I only make $25 per unit on, or increase my inventory AND display space to BD players, which gives me $95 per unit?"
You're not paying sales people less or more for selling one or the other, so at the end, it will come down to those margins.
Jer @ Feb 8th 2008 2:18PM
Forget about who the next president is going to be. What will be the outcome of the format war?
FINN @ Feb 8th 2008 2:19PM
Personally I'd like to see HD DVD hold on as long as possible since it's competition that has helped bring prices down so quickly. I have a PS3 (which I think is still the best BluRay player on the market) and I recently picked up an HD-A30 for $150 plus the free flicks. I think the biggest detriment to both these formats has been the price of the movies. Who besides Cuba Gooding's mother would pay $30-$35 to watch Daddy Day Camp in HD?
HiFiFreak @ Feb 8th 2008 2:33PM
FINN,
I agree 100% with you. The longer the war goes on the better the deals will be.
If either format wants mass adoption they have to find that magic point of what the market is willing to pay to jump in without thinking about it. HD DVD has hit that point with me personaly and Blueray was getting close but took a step back recently. I still went ahead and bought a BR player but would have loved to get some free movies (oh well..maybe they will bring back the freebies if HD DVD starts to show signs of sticking around).
HD Tom @ Feb 8th 2008 2:50PM
Amen! Thank God someone said it. I own two movies, and they are movies I really like, and will watch again and again. One, I got on sale. But at $25-plus for these things, I'll stick w/ Snail/Netflix to watch these things. What part of "the movies are way too damn expensive" don't these studios understand?
JD @ Feb 8th 2008 2:22PM
WOW fantastic, 26%, the war is over, HD DVD is crowned king. *snore*. Call me in a few months when Warner doesn't even release on the format and one or two of the "other's" are neutral.
Christmas '08 it's over, the rest is just watching the paint dry.
anon @ Feb 8th 2008 2:38PM
Who crowned HD DVD the king and said the war was over? Oh, right...NOBODY. Unless you're talking about the Blu-ray backers who keep droning on and on and on that the war is over and that HD DVD is dead for the last few months. Which just makes them look dumb because it isn't over. And apparently you didn't see what I wrote before. What has Warner released in the last few weeks that would have given the red camp that boost?
JD @ Feb 8th 2008 2:46PM
No seriously, it's finished by Christmas. The downward trend is inevitable.
anon @ Feb 8th 2008 3:03PM
Neat. Who's going to win the Super Bowl Next year? Are there any lottery numbers you can give me the heads up on? ;) I'm kidding... It was a joke... Calm down...
andy @ Feb 8th 2008 2:25PM
As an HDDVD owner, I say WTF?????
HDDVD hasn't had a decent movie released in over a month now that I'm aware of.
How in the world are they selling? I guess it's all of those people who got Chrismtas players snatchin up some deals.
But really, HUH?
I was expecting it to only get worse until HDDVD had SOME kind of release.