No, Circuit City's not shoving HD DVD out the door
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
andyj @ Feb 4th 2008 5:36PM
That's ridiculous, there's nothing strong about HD DVD except it's smell of failure.
wreckedchevy @ Feb 4th 2008 5:38PM
exactly the point i was making earlier, one piece of news for hd-dvd and instant nasty remarks about the format... if you don't like hd-dvd then don't buy it
DEEZNUTZ @ Feb 4th 2008 5:36PM
Breath easy HD DVD, you get to see one more month on store shelves...
Nfinity @ Feb 4th 2008 5:49PM
Ah the smell of Blu denial.
By Christmas not only that HD DVD will be in every home with HDTV, we will most likely see twin discs, triple 51gb discs, Disney and most likely Lionsgate publish on HD DVD as well.
HD DVD returning with a bang and enjoys STRONG retailer support despite the numerous Project Hydra attempts to lie to consumers.
andyj @ Feb 4th 2008 5:51PM
Get a life dude - and stop living in denial.
Your "format" is dead - deal with it.
Nfinity @ Feb 4th 2008 5:55PM
andyj, I understand your horrible denial. The mainstream consumers are voting with their wallets and your fairy tale is slowly but surely again being shaken up by reality.
ALL MAJOR retailers are strongly supporting HD DVD because that's what CONSUMER wants.
Not only that, but media is waking up and warning consumers what garbage Blu-Ray really is.
http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6528146
andyj @ Feb 4th 2008 6:09PM
LOL - you are truly insane.
HD DVD only has 2 of the 7 major studios supporting them.
It's over ... really over. Have fun supporting your obsolete format - it worked wonders for Beta.
DepecheSA @ Feb 4th 2008 6:31PM
Nfinity, you're an idiot.
h0mi @ Feb 4th 2008 6:57PM
I'll believe it when I see it, just as I felt about the Warner rumors, the Paramount rumor, the incessant "Universal going Blu at CES" rumors and everything else.
h0mi @ Feb 4th 2008 6:57PM
I'll believe it when I see it, just as I felt about the Warner rumors, the Paramount rumor, the incessant "Universal going Blu at CES" rumors and everything else.
Tony @ Feb 5th 2008 3:48PM
why the hostility, some of the facts are true... Blu-ray advertises features that do not work on about 90% of there players. there are +/- about both systems if you was to take the movie studios out of the picture (i know you cant) HD-DVD is a great buy at the price and it does everything you can do on the future blu-ray profile 2.0 now (for themost part) the difference between this war VHS/Beta was back then the consumer made the choice. This time the Studios that took the most money made the choice for us.
If Disney/Warner/parmount/Dreamworks made movies for both formats who out there would belive that blu-ray would have won. be honest dont talk about bitrate and diskspace. the people that buy at best buy and target dont give an rats ass about that. they care about the movie the features and most of all the cost.
Lets say warner took a 500 million check i am sure if for some strange reason HD-DVD took off they would for sure go back I would bet there is a clause in there contract with sony and of course if they did not take the money ? well then they can go back tommorow .. so the war is not over untill one company decides not to sell there product.
Mike @ Feb 4th 2008 7:39PM
What a cheerleader. Screaming "HD-DVD! HD-DVD!" at the top of your lungs won't change the fact that your format is dying.
For all the complaints you make about lack of facts, you provide none yourself; that link only talks about the differences between the different Blu-ray profiles, it doesn't say anything about the media "waking up." And it doesn't say anything about how Blu-ray is garbage. That's just your opinion.
I'll just remind everyone that new Blu-ray discs that come out will be perfectly playable on even the earliest Blu-ray player. You'll be able to watch your movie and special features just fine. Only the BD-live internet content and Picture-in-Picture features won't work. The majority of people aren't going to care about those features since the majority of people haven't even purchased a high definition player yet; it's still very early to be in the next-gen DVD game. If you really want to stay safe, you can get a PS3 so you can download profile updates as they come out rather than buying a new Blu-ray player.
You may think Blu-ray's decision to introduce hardware requirements in phases is a bad idea, and that's perfectly fine. Arguing that, and providing reasons supporting that position, would have made your post very interesting to read and discuss.
But you didn't do that at all. In fact, all you did was smack-talk Blu-ray.
Don't take your rival format's success so personally. The world won't end because you didn't get your way. Ranting and raving about the "evils" of Blu-ray just makes it easier to dismiss you as another HD-DVD fanboy tilting at windmills.
andyj @ Feb 4th 2008 7:50PM
The brutal truth is that HD DVD now only has 2 of the 7 major studios supporting it ... no format can last long on such meager offerings.
Will @ Feb 4th 2008 9:08PM
and how exactly are you determining that consumers want hddvd and not bluray? i mean according to sales charts i think it's pretty obvious that around 85% of the market has forgotten about hddvd and the only ones that haven't are idiots like you or people that were told by salesman which to get and don't keep up with all this news. get a life
Jeff @ Feb 4th 2008 10:27PM
@ andyj, having every studio supportting ANY format is not what the consumers want, meaning the studios are not the consumers.
andyj @ Feb 4th 2008 10:36PM
Jeff ... are you clueless? The reason why the studios went Blu is BECAUSE the consumers chose it over the rival. That and it's a superior format.
You gotta stop holding on to your religion and just let go.
nin @ Feb 5th 2008 1:19AM
You're right about 12 million people have voted for Blu-ray. Even if you want to talk just stand alones like Toshiba loves to do, Blu-ray still has the larger share of the market, Toshiba's own CES graph showed that. So how is HD-DVD coming out on top of this?
Glen @ Feb 5th 2008 1:50AM
Hey, nfinity. I've posted this before, but you've always managed to IGNORE it.
If you are so confident about your "insider information" and your "guaranteed information"... then put your money where your mouth is, or S*T*F*U
Your latest *LIE* (sorry, "made-up 'fact'") is that "Disney and most likely Lionsgate publish on HD DVD as well".
Back that up. I'll bet you $1000 that you're wrong -- Universal or Parmount/Dreamworks will release on Blu before Disney/Lionsgate do.
Put your money where your mouth is or S*T*F*U.
Arjun @ Feb 4th 2008 5:53PM
For Blu Ray supporters, and those who want the format war to end, this is disappointing news.
However, Truth Teller has no reason to be happy about this. He did state that "Brick and Mortar stores don't matter."
aplen22 @ Feb 4th 2008 6:06PM
Yah, i'm sorry but Truth Teller does not represent us Reds. I think we disowned him about the middle of January.
Anyway, the only interesting thing I find here is that no matter how hard the BDA tries to shove Blu down the throats of consumers they keep showing time and time again that there is a large demand for Red. I mean, how else could hardware sales climb back up to 60:40 3 weeks after the warner announcement? The story is quite clear here, we can all agree that if Sony would have given the consumer and equal chance to choose (i mean not buy studio exclusivity, and the Red camp is just as guilty), the war would have been over and Red would have won a year ago. But here we are, almost three years later and the comsumer is still keep the Red numbers strong in the wake of Toshiba lying on the floor and everyone else taking a kick at em.
Overall, we all know whats at the heart of this war, dirty corporate tactics, and the consumer is the only one that loses.
Mr. E @ Feb 4th 2008 6:52PM
@aplen22 - never underestimate the gullibility/lack of knowledge of the average consumer. Sadly, I'm afraid that a lot of that 40% is unaware of the current state of the "war" and are being misled by sales drones or blinded by the blowout pricing. This is why I continue to implore Toshiba to do the right thing and just capitulate at this point. The longer they hold out, the more consumers are going to end up with an expensive DVD player rather than an HD player at the end of the day. Hopefully they won't buy too many HD DVD movies before it's all over and their HD DVD player (inevitably) breaks.
Then again, I guess I could take the optimistic view--The 40% are buying the HD DVD players as extras in case their primary player breaks, or, knowning HD DVD is dying, they are just buying into the Red side's song that it's some kind of MAGICAL upconverting player that displays DVDs better than any other player in the history of the planet.
aplen22 @ Feb 4th 2008 10:22PM
But have you seen a HD DVD player upconvert? I have a very expensive LG upconverter and my A3 does do a better job. You may not notice it on a 40" screen but you can notice on my 90" projected screen. It just comes out clearer, end of story. And YES, it is magical!
regeya @ Feb 4th 2008 11:16PM
Yeah; a consumer buying an HD DVD player is "gullible" while a Profile 1.x buyer is "an early adopter."
Yeah.
Sure.
Right.
Whatever.
Let's just see what happens over the next few months. Y'all are probably 100% correct. How could you not be? Studios and retailers aren't willing to put forth any effort, and apparently Toshiba isn't willing to spend the cash to get their format promoted. But what if, just if, the trend reversed? Would it be a sign of HD DVD winning--or just a sign of consumers' gullibility?
I don't care what y'all say. I'm waiting for a sensible standalone BD player to come out, which should be some time after y'all get done with your HD DVD hatchet job. I could go on and on about the BDA FUD about HD DVD, but it's really amusing to see a Microsoft-backed format the VICTIM of FUD; having said that, I still would love to see HD DVD stick around long enough for consumers to decide what they want. No, Blu-Ray fanboys, your percentages don't count. 60% of 1% is still less than 1%. C'mon, studios, grow a pair and just publish in both for a while. Whether you go exclusive on one or just go neutral you're bound to lose money for a while. Go nuts!
One bit of FUD I've never seen any pro-HD DVD zealots attack is this notion that Toshiba would NEVER share the player market. If that were so, how do you explain the proliferation of non-Toshiba DVD players--or do you claim that they're ALL rebranded Toshibas? Does that count for your pwecious Blu-Ray players too??? LOL!
MI @ Feb 4th 2008 11:16PM
While it would be a positive and sensible move for any and all retailers to abandon HDVD, so that the HD media market could start gaining acceptance, Anybody who thought that HDVD was going to cease to exist days after warner dropped the format doean't know how things work. You don't have major retailers sending truckloads of hdvd players and media back to toshiba. Rather, they start reducing space as things sell off, studios start slowly following suite, smaller shops and providers start slowly making the move away from HDVD. That's exactly what we're seeing. It's been one month, thirty days. But everyone involved knows it's over for HDVD (yes, deep down even nfnity...)
Leonardo DiCrapio @ Feb 4th 2008 11:18PM
"never underestimate the gullibility/lack of knowledge of the average consumer."
Never underestimate the arrogance of a Blu-Ray supporter. Seriously, just because you scream that the war is over doesn't make it over. There aren't people lining up to buy your overpriced $400 Blu-Ray players. People want affordable high-definition video disc players, and Toshiba is providing the product for the masses.
"Sadly, I'm afraid that a lot of that 40% is unaware of the current state of the 'war' and are being misled by sales drones or blinded by the blowout pricing. This is why I continue to implore Toshiba to do the right thing and just capitulate at this point. The longer they hold out, the more consumers are going to end up with an expensive DVD player rather than an HD player at the end of the day. Hopefully they won't buy too many HD DVD movies before it's all over and their HD DVD player (inevitably) breaks."
Again, the arrogance of a Blu-Ray supporter. It is apparently "safer" to fork over $400 for a Blu-Ray player. Sorry, I don't consider Blu-Ray a safe "investment." There's no guarantees that the more expensive format is the one to stay. If Toshiba's marketing strategy works (selling HD DVD players to the masses), Blu-Ray will be the one on life support. And once Toshiba starts building up momentum, it will be difficult for Blu-Ray to quickly counter.
Besides the reasoning for Warner's defection from HD DVD don't make sense in light of the NPD's recent statements. Blu-Ray players were given away with HDTV's in December (most notably Panasonic) and January. Also, there were several Profile 1.0 Blu-Ray players that were on sale for $300, and Best Buy was selling HD-A3's for $300 at the time. So exactly how were Blu-Ray players being sold at significantly higher price points than HD DVD players (as Warner would state)? Is "free" a higher price point than $300? If you can't sell them, just give them away should be Blu-Ray's mantra.
Luckily, the studios will ultimately have to follow the consumers. If consumers buy millions of HD DVD players, the studios will follow. It really doesn't matter how much money Sony throws at them, the studios want to sell high-definition video discs to millions of movie watchers. The studios don't care in the long run whether the cases are red or blue.
MI @ Feb 5th 2008 1:40PM
"just because you scream that the war is over doesn't make it over"
That's a great point. I think that the poor sales the loss of support from studios, manufacturers and retailers does make it over.
magnetozx @ Feb 5th 2008 3:26PM
To Leonardo DiCrapio:
"If Toshiba's marketing strategy works (selling HD DVD players to the masses), Blu-Ray will be the one on life support."
The problem is that Toshiba has had this same strategy for months now, and it hasn't paid off. Despite the cheaper players, and despite Toshiba selling more stand-alone players, Blu-Ray software outsold HD-DVD software at a 65-35 clip for ALL of 2007. So the consumer has ALREADY CHOSEN Blu-Ray, and now the studios and retailers are following the consumer.
aplen22 @ Feb 6th 2008 2:04AM
@ magnetozx
Please don't ever say again that the consumer had the choice and thusly selected Blu because in the real world we live in, we all know that never happened.
CharlieX @ Feb 4th 2008 5:54PM
Circuit City is a mange ridden dog of electronics. I'd rather go to Fry's. Let's not take anything CC does as a sign of the times.
Blake @ Feb 4th 2008 5:59PM
So when they were clearing out their HD DVD players, it was a sign of the times, but now it isn't?
I'm not claiming that you initially (when the story was reversed) thought it carried any weight. I'm more speaking to others who did believe that, but will now agree wholeheartedly with your comments.
mtb @ Feb 4th 2008 6:02PM
I try to stay away from that place if possible.
Gus @ Feb 4th 2008 6:02PM
Why wouldn't you blu fools just buy one and go purple anyway, all this HD DVD bashing is pathetic.
The A3 is a fabulous upscaler and with 10 free HD movies why wouldn't you all just buy one.
This format war is ridiculous, if this was a BR player at the same specification and price I would buy one in a heartbeat.
h0mi @ Feb 4th 2008 7:37PM
10? I count 7 free movies. And I already own 300.
MI @ Feb 4th 2008 9:00PM
Yes, lets keep HDVD on life support for another few months, and reward Universal and Paramount for NOT supporting our format of choice. I think I'll just wait patiently till they either see the light or have no choice but support BD.
Gus @ Feb 4th 2008 10:07PM
@Mi
No instead, lets reward sony for it's anti consumer monopoly and pay 3 times the price for hardware than what it should be.
You could buy 2 HD DVD players with all most 20 movies a lot cheaper then you can buy 1 lousy POS profile 1 BR POS, and you say FU to Para and Uni !
Your ignorance and arrogance astounds me.
Truth TeIIer @ Feb 5th 2008 11:26AM
Gus, and Homi. You're both idiots. HD DVD is fucking dead. If I've learned to accept it, you should be able to too. And homi, 300 movies? all in HDDVD? You're a crack fiend. You probably haven't even watched them all. Congratulations on buying so much into an obsolete format. And Gus, you deluded moron, just admit defeat. The only reason the players are so cheap is because they're trying to sell off their stock to deluded and ignorant consumers like yourself. Idiots.
MI @ Feb 5th 2008 1:57PM
Yes, I think I'll buy two HDVD players (like all you people did to spike the sales this week) and enjoy movies from Paramount and universal for the next few months. No wait, I think I'd rather watch the other 70% of the movies in the universe and be patient. Patience is something you guys have never had, and now more so than ever, the only hope you can conceive is that you can sucker more people into buying HDVD, meanwhile HDVD is loosing more support literally every passing day. Paying more for a better system, which has a future, just makes sense. How this is arrogance, and not just common sense is lost to me.
Paul @ Feb 4th 2008 6:36PM
Wow, even though I read EngadgetHD everyday, I'm still amazed to see how people can be fanboys of a storage medium. Buy what you want; there's no reason to be an overzealous loser about a damn product.
Mike @ Feb 4th 2008 6:58PM
I support being able to watch movies in HD at an affordable price. When HD DVD was on sale for $99...it was affordable (I would probably buy at $120-$130 too with the 2 extra movies in box). So I just want to see base grow large enough to convince studios to release movies on HD DVD and make a profit there as well.
As I have said before...I will consider 2.0 blue ray when it is around $99...course when I bought my a2 I also needed an upconverter. But why should the consumer have to wait for 2.0 BD players at $99 - $149 when the market has an affordable HD player now in HD DVD players.
Mike @ Feb 4th 2008 7:45PM
@Paul
Hear hear!
Paul @ Feb 4th 2008 9:38PM
To Mike(1):
I, just like you, bought the $99 A2, and I love it for the same reasons you do. It's just really stupid when people get aggressively stupid over a storage technology.
Allen @ Feb 4th 2008 6:49PM
Truth be told I have always wanted HD DVD to win. Its a better format:
1. Its complete (kidney shot to blu-ray there)
2. Its not like all that extra storage space ever made a difference, both support 1080p/24fps with 7.1 channel lossless audio
3. Its cheaper to produce, cheaper to buy, and it can get cheaper quicker, meaning retailers would prefer it (margins, where as BDA still does not have margins for retailers)
4. Its region free. Any HD DVD bought anywhere in the world can be used on any HD DVD player anywhere in the world. Its how I have "The Prestige" on HD DVD: I just ordered it from Amazon's UK website. Due to the way distribution rights work, even Sony releases movies in HD DVD someplaces.
5. Its cheaper. Done.
BDA on the other hand isn't complete (still waiting for profile 2.0), its more expensive, it reeks of DRM and region encoding, and it'd mean Sony would own our souls. Toshiba is a much friendlier taskmaster in the past.
Mr. E @ Feb 4th 2008 6:58PM
How many times do we have to go through these lists?
1. Blu-ray profile 2.0 players will be plentiful by the end of this year, long before mass adoption.
2. Storage space will absolutely matter whenever The Lord of the Rings extended editions come out on Blu-ray (plus any number of other extra long movies--Godfather series, anyone?). This doesn't even consider the available bandwidth side of the equation, where Blu-ray also rules.
3. The cheaper argument is going to be old news by the end of this year as well. Electronics continually drop in price. ALWAYS! Especially with a huge number of competing manufacturers, as Blu-ray has.
4. That's true... For the .01% of consumers who import movies.
5. See #3.
MI @ Feb 4th 2008 9:56PM
1. I don't really want to browse the Internet on my blu-ray player. That said, BD is complete: It is a 50 gig media, with the capacity and bandwidth that it needs now and in the future. HDVD had all the gimmicks ready on day none, but is only now suggesting it might be able to increase the capacity. BD came out as a fully developed and future proofed format. HDVD was all ready to come out with High compression and a red laser, until BD raised the bar.
2. And "640k should be enough memory for anybody".
3. Of course it's cheaper to produce, it's a souped up DVD player. Blu-Ray is a new format built from the ground up to be the next generation format. Where you get the idea that retailers can make more money selling their last few HDVD players art $99 a pop, than they can selling $300 Blu-Ray players (or $300 anything) is ridiculous. The exact oposite of what you say is true.
4. SO what? I can get the prestige right here in the US. As soon as Paramount and Universal loose their death wish and start releasing Blu-Ray (again for paramount) I'll be able to get all those movies. You talk like the masses are interested in HDVD and then that HDVD is all about buying content from Europe?! I don't see the average consumer, especially one who doesn't want to spend more than $99 on an HD player, ordering internationally.
5. It's more expensive to buy an HDVD player and have to buy a Blu-Ray player as well in order to get the other 70% of the content available from the BD exclusive studios, than it is to simply NOT buy an HDVD player and wait for Paramount and Universal to make the inevitable move to Blu-Ray.
The whole 'sony would own our souls' shtick is pretty sill too with Microsoft pulling toshiba's strings especially. So you have toshiba as your lone supplier of HDVD hardware and microsoft grinding their axe on the software end, not to mention their proprietary encoding. ON the Blu-Ray side, we have several hardware manufacturers supplying hardware (samsung, sony, denon, LG, Panasonic, Sharp, philips, pioneer) and the software is based on Java. Sounds like a broader and friendly alliance to me.
andyj @ Feb 4th 2008 10:38PM
Allen, you're completely misinformed. Studios had to dumb down movies to have them fit on HD DVD ... that's another reason for going Blu-ray exclusive.
Blu-ray is a superior spec ... and consumers have bought it as such. The studios have responded to the consumers and supported the best format in turn, Blu-ray.
aplen22 @ Feb 5th 2008 12:47AM
@ andyj
Don't be so quick to pull that statement out, because as much as you would like to say Blu is superior, let's examine for a moment why Paramount went Red if the format is as you say "inferior"...
Why don't we ask Paramount's CTO Alan Bell...
(the following interview is from a August 2007 PC World article...an article Bluboys would love to forget, oh and here's the link, so no i'm not making this stuff up - http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136253-c,dvdtechnology/article.html)
He states that the studio went Red for the following reasons...
- Lower priced players
- Complete launch specs
- Competence of the DVD Forum and thusly HD DVD association
- 3-4 Hr playback time on a 30GB disk is acceptable, you don't need to gimp the movie as bluboys would argue, just add a second disk for special features, something we've done with DVDs for years
- He also states that BD-Java is inferior in the following quote...the bluboys hate this one...
"BD-Java is a programming language. The benefit is that it's very flexible. The drawback is that you may need 100 lines of BD-Java code. HDi is a relatively compact piece of code; one command can cover quite a bit of interactivity.
BD-Java is also more complex, so the possibility of errors is greater. And when BD players are put out, [there's the question of whether] they all support the scenarios as coded up from the low level. [Some of the early problems with BD-Java discs] were in part due to the complexity that BD-Java brings. From our point of view, HDi offers all of the flexibility we need, in practice, and it does so in a more simplified way and in a way that we feel leads to better compatibility, better reliability, and lower costs."
-Not to mention he goes on to state the obvious, that early adopters will be left with no access to Bonus view or BD-Live, in effect screwing them over when you should be doing back flips for the people that get your format off the ground.
So overall it's we can easily see that it's not the superiority of Blu that has captured the studios, it's Sony's cheque book.
Paul Ford @ Feb 4th 2008 6:52PM
umm, at my best buy we took back 22 hddvd players the day after the warner announcement and we are sold out of every blu ray player we carry. Now, we're one of the largest stores in the company in terms of volume. But we've got 6 end caps and 3 ps3 displays. We have one hddvd display. If you want a good deal go grab an open box hddvd for 80 or 90 bucks. We can't move them.
Kilau @ Feb 4th 2008 6:54PM
Am I the only one that has never heard of punch jump?
Truth Teller @ Feb 4th 2008 6:59PM
No surprises here, just another BS story planted to distract from the new HD DVD campaign.
TruthCommenter @ Feb 4th 2008 7:13PM
TruthTeller: "the new HD DVD campaign"
Yea,ah-ha,ha, ha-ha, ah-ha-ha-ha, ha, ho-ho,
ha-ha-haha, ah-hahaaa, ha-haaaaa, yeahahaha,
yohohoh, whohooooo, hahahaaaaaaaaaaa,
aah-haha,hahaa,heheheeee,hahaha, haha,hahaha,
whoo,hoho,haha, ahaa, ahaa,
you funny little forest fairy
Hey, got another of your greatest hits:
"Truth Teller @ Nov 15th 2007 5:33PM
The US retailing giants already called this war for
HD DVD. Warner are a just over a month off of going
HD DVD exclusive. Surely all those who wanted a clean
cut end to this will now be happy? Make the most of
the remaining couple of weeks Blu-fans cos just like
what happened when Paramount dumped Blu-ray the
Warner movies will be drying up rapidly leaving far
less movie content available to Blu-ray."
Nice call Nostradamus, hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!