http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/ Engadget HD Comments for http://www.engadgethd.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadgethd.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 7:48AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/in a house.
I do not like them
with a mouse.
I do not like them
here or there.
I do not like them
anywhere.]]>Jan 28th 2008 8:08AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 8:30AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 9:03AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 9:26AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 1:17PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 4:21PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 7:05PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 30th 2008 2:05PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Anybody else thinks buying the most expensive ad-space available to push a dead format reeks of desperation?]]>Jan 28th 2008 7:53AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Feb 5th 2008 6:57PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 8:16AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/You're wrong, they will. There must be a secret clause in the DMCA law or in the AACS agreement mandating that every player and disc of the format losing the war will automatically disintegrate (and likely kill everyone around) when the format war officially ends.
I mean, that's the only logical explanation to all these people selling their HD DVD collection and players at a loss or telling they wouldn't consider a free player and free movies since Warner's decision.]]>Jan 28th 2008 8:35AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 8:59AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
HURRY! HURRY! HURRY!

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NEVER AGAIN WILL YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PURCHASE AN UPCONVERTING DVD PLAYER THAT ALSO PLAYS HD DVD'S... BUT YOU MUST HURRY: SUPLIES ARE EXTREMELY LIMITED!

YOU CAN OWN A PIECE OF ELECTRONIC HISTORY!

YOU'LL BE THE ENVY OF ARCHEOLOGISTS EVERYWHERE.

YOU'RE NEW HD DVD PLAYER WILL TRIPLE IN VALUE AFTER IT'S FEATURED AS THE LOST TREASURE IN "INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL" FROM PARAMOUNT PICTURES...OPENS EVERYWHERE MAY 22ND 2008... AVAILABLE THIS XMAS EXCLUSIVELY ON BLU-RAY DISC.

HURRY, ONCE THE HD DVD'S ARE GONE, THEY'RE NEVER COMING BACK!

MENTION HD DVD AS THE LOSER OF THE FORMAT WAR AND GET AN EXTRA 10% OFF!

*** YOU MUST SIGN THE NON-RETURNABLE CLEARANCE POLICY ON YOUR INVOICE IN ORDER TO CLAIM THE ADDITIONAL 10% DISCOUNT *** ]]>Jan 28th 2008 8:27AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 29th 2008 4:09PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/much as movies when you are talking about a MOVIE FORMAT!!. the
sooner you realize that the better for yourself because I could care
a less about what format I buy I am in it for the movies. I know
exactly what I got myself into. I just bought a blu-ray player
because I want to watch movies and honestly I have to ask myself how
many HD-DVD's I will be buying in the future seeing that there are no
exclusives outside of American Gangster that have been announced that
I am remotely interested in. Is that Toshibas fault no. Its just
Paramount and Universal are releasing nothing and the movies I want
to watch from them are all pretty much Spielberg flicks so I wont
hold my breath. Also what is with the HD-DVD exclusive Jack Ryan
collection finally coming out with a big go !@#$ yourself I mean no
extra features on a HD release seem just lazy. The only thing Toshiba
is doing right now is fooling people who dont know any better to
invest in a new way to watch movies on their HD TV's. The only
problem is I think you need to have movies being released on your
format to do that. But I dont see them warning the average consumer
that what they got might be about all they are going to get.
]]>Jan 28th 2008 8:31AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 9:46AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 10:01AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 2:06PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 8:34AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/01/27/confirmed-circuit-citys-hd-dvd-players-on-clearance/
]]>Jan 28th 2008 8:40AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 8:48AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 8:51AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/HD-DVD-Blu-ray-Disc-players/sem/rpsm/catOid/-16221/N/20012866+20012872+20016221/link/ref/rpem/ccd/categorylist.do

Did you even look at Circuit City's website before you posted?]]>Jan 28th 2008 9:21AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 9:26AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 9:54AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
Go to the store. Their B&M stores have them on clearance. Web and B&M prices don't always match up.]]>Jan 28th 2008 10:07AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
Read the link, read my comment, I'm not saying anything more or less than what FWC is saying and they are saying nothing less than the clearance sign they took a picture of says at Circuit City. Get some reading comprehension skills or stay out of the conversation....]]>Jan 28th 2008 10:10AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 10:13AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 10:22AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
We get it, you like BR. Making up facts isn't going to make up for whatever complex you have about your format. You're just as bad as the damn Patriots, a chip on your shoulder even though your format is winning. Yes, you're *so* bad, we all envy your amazing ability to spin facts out your ass like a spider weaves her web, and oh so rock star moody... Now get over yourself and know when to shut the hell up.


Signed,
Everyone else.]]>Jan 28th 2008 12:02PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
Like the moron before you, show me where I've made up any facts.

Put up or shut up.

That is the problem with you turds. You think that just because this is a new day that no one will remember the stupid crap you said yesterday or the day before.

Find something I made up or claimed as fact when it was just my opinion or go away.

Reading comprehension, get some....
]]>Jan 28th 2008 12:10PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 9:04PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 30th 2008 1:35PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 8:56AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
Same tedious sh!t different day.

Same old Blu-ray fans trying to talk-up their preferred format & pretend HD DVD is dead.

BS

Blu-ray has less than 1% of the total disc market & has won nothing.

It's true HD DVD has - so far - won less than that but so what?

The point is the 'war' is far from over & nothing has been won by anybody - no matter how much the Blu-gang want to pretend otherwise & create an impression
(which is really all they are about).]]>Jan 28th 2008 8:58AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
Price-driven promotions are the main reason for high-def’s steeper growth curve, according to Paul Erickson, DisplaySearch director of DVD and HD Market Research.

Standard DVD players were priced more steadily during their first months on shelves, he explained, as they were never embroiled in a hyper-competitive format war.

So, War, what is it good for? Cheaper pricing and faster growth, apparently

Sounds like HD is making market gains not only that but at a faster rate than DVD. You saying that blu-ray or HD-DVD's market gains and sales dont count for anything is pretty ignorant.
]]>Jan 28th 2008 9:06AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/If that was what I said then you might have a point but that's not what I said. luvincharity.

I am saying that when 1 format (BLu-ray) has won far less than 1% of the annual total market then it is laughable to pretend it is all over.

No-one is fooled.

This is all just an attempt (again) to talk up an impression ('momentum') before the big HD DVD guns appear in a couple of months.
It's expected & I don't blame them pulling every trick they can.

But it's Blu-ray that ought to give it up.
Blu-ray will never replace SD DVD.

It's already too late.

There'll be no proper range of profile 2.0 Blu-ray players at mass-market prices this year.

Blu-ray has a foothold in it's only captive market (the PS3 game console, how could it not?) but it has next to nothing anywhere else.

.....excepting the strong possibility of 200,000 - 250,000 very pi$$ed off profile 1.0/1.1 owners who are set to be left behind when profile 2.0 appears. ]]>Jan 28th 2008 9:17AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Perhaps BD will not have the exact same level of success that DVD enjoyed, but it really doesn't have to. Even half that level would make BD (or HD-DVD in the same shoe) a success overall.

You are completely right, HD is still peanuts in the grand video disc world. But a lot can happen in six years... that's the amount of time it took DVD to break even and surpass VHS sales and rentals. It's a start for BD and no matter what you or I predict right now, only time will tell.
Here's an article from BARRONS about DVD written in 1997, predicting it would NOT overtake VHS for many of the reasons you mention regarding BD. Just a bit of history for you.
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB874528176133305500.html?mod=googlebarrons


Retailers are going to finish this silly war.]]>Jan 28th 2008 9:28AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
It comes down to opinion, you have yours and I have mine.

I think the facts support my view & you don't.

That's ok with me.

]]>Jan 28th 2008 9:38AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
Profile 1.0 players will not be "left behind" when 1.1 or 2.0 discs arrive. As you know full well. So quit lying. Your lame putdowns, hypocritical arguments and general whining are self defeating and childish.]]>Jan 28th 2008 9:43AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
The BDA themselves admitted recently that profile 1.0/1.1 owners may well have such serious problems that profile 2.0 discs (if they ever appear) that they might not be playable.

Seems like you're the infantile and outright liar trying to downplay this mess.

(I just hope you're one of the sad poor b@stards who got suckered into shelling out $1500+ for a profile 1.0 player and who will experience being told 'tough titty old son, you knew what you were getting into'.)]]>Jan 28th 2008 9:51AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/I'm tired of waiting for HD-DVD's big guns to come out. Us Blu-bois have been waiting for these and all you had was a slight scare when Paramount switched.
It's over, get a life.
]]>Jan 28th 2008 12:11PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 12:37PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
The problem you "Blu-bois" (ffs) have is that you have talked yourselves into such an over-excited state over all of this that you imagine that everything needs to happen today or at the latest tomorrow or maybe this week or no later than this month.

It doesn't. That's just ridiculous.

Sales of high def are still minute & showing no signs of taking off in the mainstream mass-market - nor anything like that.
High def is still invisible to the genuine general public.

Blu-ray doesn't even have a proper range of final spec profile 2.0 players at a proper range of mass-market prices.

You can talk-up your preferred format all you like but the fundamental truths still stand.
]]>Jan 28th 2008 12:54PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/14/blu-ray-early-adopters-knew-what-they-were-getting-into-appar/

Read it and weep! Because while i hear your whimpers late at night because your overpriced disc won't play in your overpriced player, i'll be enjoying my HD DVD disc that works in my HD-A3. I know it's a dead format, but do you think i'll be buying a overpriced BD player until I absolutely have to?

ANY BLOODY QUESTIONS?!]]>Jan 28th 2008 2:44PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/
I shall paraphrase what it says - "you're not going to get new features in your existing players so hard cheese". It doesn't say "your existing players won't work any more". Because its simply not true.

So I am still waiting for a link that even remotely supports idiotic statements such as "The BDA themselves admitted recently that profile 1.0/1.1 owners may well have such serious problems that profile 2.0 discs (if they ever appear) that they might not be playable." or "Read it and weep! Because while i hear your whimpers late at night because your overpriced disc won't play in your overpriced player, i'll be enjoying my HD DVD disc that works in my HD-A3."

Well?]]>Jan 28th 2008 3:43PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 4:20PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/28/hd-dvd-ad-to-air-during-super-bowl-xlii-bda-sez-its-futile/Jan 28th 2008 4:43PM