How to actually use Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD
With HD DVD and Blu-ray also came the ultimate audio options in a time when convenience trumps quality in most of the audio world. While SACD and DVD-Audio are all but a bust, audiophiles can turn to HD DVD and Blu-ray for the ultimate audio experience. But even if you aren't an audiophile, it's still worth it to many to take advantage of the master quality audio available on the HD discs that you've already paid for. Unfortunately, it isn't as easy as it used to be, and after realzing how much confusion there was surrounding these next-gen codecs, we decided to try to help clear up the confusion. So if you want to know how to take advantage of everything on the discs you already own, but don't know why Toslink doesn't cut it anymore (and what's so special about about HDMI 1.3), then read on, will ya?Starting with DVD, we had to start using Toslink instead of the old trusty red and white analog cables, but with HD DVD and Blu-ray, it's no longer that easy. As great as Toslink is, it's only capable of carying 1.5Mbps of data, which limits you to either lossy Dolby Digital, DTS, or two channel PCM (uncompressed). So in order to take advantage of the new codecs, we have to leave Toslink behind and move on, or back depending on your configuration. Notably, there are a few ways that you can utilize the latest codecs, but the way you do it depends on your equipment and preferences. The two main options are to either decompress within the HD movie player or in your AV receiver. Assuming your equipment supports both -- although most do not -- you can join a thread at AVS to debate the merits of each, but since most folks don't have a choice, we'll cover the pair here.
The new codecs
The difference between the next-gen audio codecs is way beyond the scope of this feature, but to lay them out there to see if your player has support, here goes. Dolby Digital Plus (next generation of Dobly Digital, still lossy), PCM (uncompressed lossless, think CD) Dolby TrueHD (Dolby's lossless audio) DTS-HD HR (next generation of DTS, still lossy) and finally DTS-HD MA (lossless version of DTS). Basically DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, and PCM are all exact copies of the studio masters and arguably the same -- we're going to completely avoid the entire sample rate discussion here, sorry.

The new connections
You have three options for connectors that will allow you to take advantage of all the next-gen codecs; HDMI, HDMI 1.3, and discrete analog cables. The benefit of using HDMI over analog cables is obviously the digital transmission, but also, less wires as you can use one cable instead of six (5.1) or eight (7.1). In regards to audio, the advantage of HDMI 1.3 (preferably 1.3a to help solve possible lip sync issues) is its ability to carry compressed audio (aka bitstream) -- we'll get into why later -- rather than the previous version which could only carry uncompressed audio (LPCM).

Decompressing in the player
Home theater amplifiers don't evolve at the same rate as other electronics, and usually an amp that was good five years ago is still good today. So we understand that people can be hesitant to replace their AV receiver just to listen to the latest codecs. Luckily, most older receivers still have HDMI (pre 1.3) or discrete analog inputs (6 or 8). For this reason, having an HD movie player that can decode internally is advantageous, as it will handle the latest codecs and allow your older amp to just take the signal and amplify it for your speakers. The other advantage to decoding in the player is that if discs were authored with the advanced authoring method, the player can mix interactive feature's sounds with the regular audio from the movie -- things like beeps from the menus and directors commentary can fall into this category. If you decode in your AV receiver, you won't be able to take advantage of the additional sounds.
HD DVD options
A3 (DD plus and TrueHD) HDMI only
A30 (DD plus and TrueHD) HDMI only
A35 (DD plus and TrueHD) both, but 5.1 only
Blu-ray options
PS3 (DD plus, TrueHD and PCM) HDMI (This is correct, don't even think about commenting if you disagree)
Samsung BD-P1400 (All, but DTS-HD MA) both, but 5.1 only
Sony BDP-S500 (all codecs except DTS-HD MA) both, but 5.1 only
Pioneer BDP-95HD (all codecs except DTS-HD MA) both, but analog is 5.1 only
AV Receivers
If it has HDMI or analog inputs, the chances are very good that it'll work when the player is doing the decoding.

Decompressing in the AV receiver
If you have the latest AV receiver with HDMI 1.3, you can set your player to send the compressed signal (aka bitstream) to it and let it do the heavy work. Both your HD movie player and your AV receiver have to support each individual codec though. So just because your player will output every codec via bitstream, doesn't mean your receiver can decode them. Although you can't take advantage of advanced authored movies, the advantage to decoding in the AV receiver is that you usually have access to more advanced sound processing. While equipment varies, in most cases the only way to take advantage of the auto level and delay adjustments is to decode in the AV receiver. If you are in a dedicated home theater this can be less important, but since many living rooms prevent optimal speaker placement, having the ability to adjust the level of a speaker or add a delay to simulate distance can be critical.
HD DVD options
A35 (all codecs)
XA2 (all codecs)
Blu-ray options
Samsung BD-P1400 (all codecs)
Panasonic BDP-BD30K (all codecs)
Pioneer BDP-95HD (all codecs)
Sony BDP-S500 (all codecs except DTS-HD MA)
AV Receivers
Onkyo TX-SR605 and up (all codecs)
Yamaha RX-V1800 and up (all codecs)
Pioneer VSX-91TXH and up (all codecs)
Sony STR-DG2100 and up (all codecs)
Denon AVR-2808CI and up (all codecs)
So there you go, simple right? All you need is all new equipment -- that may or may not be clearly advertised -- connected with either HDMI or discrete analog cables, then an hour or so to read the manual, and you're all set. Seriously, even if you have the latest and greatest connected via HDMI 1.3, you may still have spend some time to ensure the player is set to output the optimal signal for your receiver and then decide what that signal is. Yeah we know, it's complicated, but at least we gave you a head start.
A special thanks to Tyler at Format War Central for helping figure this out.
These lists are not comprehensive and because of confusing terminology (and downright inaccurate documentation) it can be very difficult to tell what equipment supports what. So if you have first hand experience with any of our examples (or others) we'd love your help to make sure our lists are accurate.
















Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
DEEZNUTZ @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:10PM
This post just made my eyes cross... Man could they have made it any more complicated? Yes I do get it but still.
Soundboy @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:48PM
Any albums released on HD-DVD or Blu-ray? I don't mean concert videos....I want music albums.
Pictor @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:17PM
Why? Now that the HDM format is over is there really a need for lossless compression? There is plenty of room for LPCM on Blu-Ray and some studios (Disney) are actually doing it right with 24bit LPCM.
shawnmos @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:45PM
Yeah, too bad the studios are all going with lossless compression anyway. My Blu-ray player can't handle any of the high def codecs so I wish they would keep LPCM tracks in blu-ray movies, but they are not. Even Sony now has moved on to TrueHD. Fox uses DTS-MA.
alienclays @ Jan 22nd 2008 4:33PM
ditto,
i feel this way about the ps3, as a BD player, the lack of internal decodeing support for dtsHD and the lack of bit streaming these codecs is the only knock against it. as an overall package the pros outweigh the cons IMO. and now that BD is the clear winner in the format war, i'm hoping dual format studios that once were focused on using dtsHD MA or trueHD due to hd-dvd limitations on disc size and bit rate will use the format in support of the hands down most prolific BD player on the planet.
i do love the 7.1 LPCM support that the ps3 does provide and its that, combined with the hope for a firmware update to fix this issue, that's motivating me to get the sony STR-DA3300ES over the STR-DG2100. otherwise without a firmware update i'll probably buy a BD player later on that can do it for me.
MATT! @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:24PM
not 100% accurate. I URGE people to read this article.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/853
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:28PM
Matt,
What is not accurate? I'd love to fix it thanks.
That article is about HDMI 1.3, this article is about taking advantage of next-gen codecs. While HMDI 1.3 is useful, it isn't quite the same thing. And if it wasn't such a great article, I'd delete your post for trying to drive traffic instead of adding to the conversation.
drew @ Jan 22nd 2008 4:33PM
Great link Matt the article really does help to clear up the crap you about hdmi 1.3.
I esspecially like the clarification about leaving the decoding to the player rather than the reciever since the reciever is just going to convert it to PCM anyway.
Gary @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:36PM
PS3 does 7.1 LPCM over HDMI. War, Waiting, Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence are all example movies that can be tested with the right AVR.
You don't mention the Xbox 360 as an HD DVD option, which can decode Dolby TrueHD but only output 5.1 1.5Mbps DTS, 640kbps Dolby Digital, WMA Pro, or stereo (2 channels) of PCM
Denon AVR (2308CI and up) will do all codecs up to 7.1
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:42PM
You're right, not sure how that 5.1 only comment got in there, I edited it.
As for the 360, I have no idea what the new HDMI enabled one can do. Like I said, the list is not comprehensive.
drew @ Mar 13th 2008 1:04PM
Actually you can set all decoding to go over the 1.5 Mb/s DTS stream in the Advanced audio options of the HDDVD player on the 360 even DTH.
BTW the difference between @540 kb/s and 1.5 is actually much larger in terms of audio quality than 1.5 to lossless.
Mike Jenkins @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:37PM
Why is the PS3 5.1 only? The manual says it does 7.1 over HDMI, and it requires an LPCM 7.1 compatible reciever so why can't it? Does this mean that the reciever is doing the decoding? Then why isn't the PS3 listed in the Blu-Ray options under Decompressing in the AV receiver? I'm not trying to argue I just want to know why Ben is so adamant about it.
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:41PM
You're right it is 7.1, not sure why I had that there. The rest of the PS3 is correct.
The PS3 can't output bitstream of TrueHD or DTS-HD which is why it isn't listed in the "decoding in the AVR" section.
cckrobinson @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:42PM
Nice write up Ben. I think you summarized the options pretty well.
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:43PM
You mean you didn't post to bash all my hard work?
Hmm, not sure how to reply to that... thanks?
Seriously, I'm glad you found it interesting.
Ted @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:51PM
I'm still confused lol! Do I still get any benefit from the lossless audio codecs if I only have 2.0 speakers? I've got a Denon amp, a Pioneer BDP LX70A (European model number, not sure what the U.S. one is) and a HDMI 1.3 TV...
JayHDDVD @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:55PM
Good work Ben.
Made sense to me. HD-A35, Panny 30, Onkyo 605 and 7.1 running rampid here.
cckrobinson @ Jan 22nd 2008 12:58PM
You post reminded me that my 10 years Yamaha 5.1 receiver that's collecting dust could make a comeback. It has 5.1 discrete analog inputs. It doesn't have onboard DD processing or even S-Video inputs for that matter. For handling Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA audio, it's just as capable as most 2 year old receivers that don't have HDMI inputs. Hopefully potential buyers will appreciate that when I list it on ebay.
drew @ Jan 22nd 2008 1:25PM
Ben,
Great article that I'm sure clears some of the muddy waters that exist when choosing audio components or just trying to the most out of the gear they own.
An important thing to remember as long as your AVR / processor / integrated amp has HDMI it is far more important what it does after decoding that having the fancy new decoder built in.
You can't make a silk purse out of sows ear now matter what decoders are in the box.
Godfa7h3r @ Jan 22nd 2008 1:30PM
Ben, don't forget to add the new lineup of Denon receivers to that list. They were some of the first ones out and a lot of people use them.
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 1:30PM
Model number?
Raptor007 @ Jan 22nd 2008 1:38PM
Denon AVRs with onboard decoding of all audio codecs:
AVR-2808CI
AVR-3808CI
AVR-4308CI
AVR-5308CI
Raptor007 @ Jan 22nd 2008 1:50PM
Hey sweet! I recognize the back of that player, it's my BD-UP5000!
Funny image choice for the article, since at the moment it doesn't work with advanced audio codecs. :P
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 1:50PM
True, but it's one of the only players that has 7.1 analog outs.
Mike @ Jan 22nd 2008 1:51PM
One snafu I have run in to, at least with the PS3, is that in order to move any audio over HDMI, you have to use HDMI the entire way through. In other words, HDMI from PS3 to Receiver and then HDMI from Receiver to TV. My TV has DVI and I have to use a HDMI to DVI cable. Since there is not a complete HDMI handshake from the TV to the PS3, the audio doesn't pass...which sucks since I am happy with my GWII TV and was not planning on replacing it any time soon.
John Cloudman @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:07PM
@Mike - That's not my experience. I have a PS3 running audio over HDMI to my Denon AVR-3808ci, and have the component out of the PS3 connected to the Denon as well. I don't have an HDMI or DVI based TV (Toshiba 65H82). The audio comes across fine and my 3808ci indicates it is receiving multi-channel in.
Of course, I just got it, and haven't tried a Blu-ray disc yet - only games. Is this a problem only with Blu-Ray movies?
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:06PM
It depends no your equipment, but all you should need is HDMI from the player to the receiver as the receiver is what handles the audio.
Mike @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:15PM
John - If I were to unplug my DVI/HDMI cable from the back of my reciever (Sony STR-DG1000), the PS3 would then pass the audio over the HDMI. I imagine the same would happen to you if you were to plug a HDMI cable into your receiver's output that did not plug in to anything else.
Ben - Logic would say that the receiver would peel off the audio, since the receiver is where it is supposed to go anyway.
Stiletto @ Jan 24th 2008 11:27AM
Mike,
Your AVR might have a setting in it to "pass HDMI audio". If so, disable it. What it basically means is that your receiver is asking the TV what audio it supports, which is none. Your AVR in turn tells the BDP that it doesn't support audio. If you don't pass HDMI Audio, the AVR won't ask the BDP and you should get full audio through HDMI to your AVR. That is the way it is with my Onkyo 705 anyways.
randromeo @ Jan 22nd 2008 1:57PM
I'm confused, can you not use an optical cable to transmit the codecs mentioned? What is the advantage of having that on my PS3 over the standard red/white analog cables?
rip @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:01PM
Apparently, optical does not have enough bandwidth to handle uncompressed audio codecs. There might be other reasons like hdcp or handshake issues.
Optical handles the older codecs just fine.
But, afaik, simply put, if you want the new codecs, you need hdmi.
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:03PM
Right, if you use thee optical on the PS3 you will only get the older codecs, so with the PS3 you have to use HDMI
rip @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:00PM
nice article, but I'm still confused.
So, I have a PS3 and plan on getting a new receiver, something like the new Denon 4308, which apparently has support for the new codecs. BTW, its a bit annoying that I have to get a new receiver anyway, as I am otherwise quite happy with the one I have.
Apparently, the PS3 does not support DTS-MA?
So does that mean I won't get all the various audio codecs if I connect the PS3 to the receiver via HDMI?
My understanding is/was that connecting via HDMI to a receiver with codec support would be enough. Or is this article suggesting that I can get say, TrueHD sound because the PS3 supports it even though my current receiver does not??
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:05PM
A receiver with codec support won't help a PS3 owner. All you need is a receiver with HDMI that supports PCM, although the newer receivers support this in addition to the new codecs.
John Cloudman @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:08PM
rip, that is correct. The PS3 does not support DTS-HD MA through either onboard decoding or passing it bitstream. There is no way to currently get it, regardless of the receiver.
As for your current receiver, if it has HDMI in or an external multi-channel analog in, you can get Dolby TrueHD sound without a new receiver. The PS3 would decode the TrueHD soundtrack into 8 (7+1) channels, and pass those in a standard format (PCM over HDMI or just over analog cables) to your older receiver.
John Cloudman @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:11PM
Whoops, I made a slight mistake. The PS3 does not have analog multichannel out. You would have to have an HDMI capable receiver, but even HDMI 1.0 capable should be fine. I have a Denon AVR-3808ci, and it works fine.
rip @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:19PM
Ben,
That's because the PS3 is handling all the audio processing?
If that's the case, it sounds like the receiver's processing is bypassed and if so, why wouldn't any receiver with HDMI inputs work, regardless of built-in codec support? Or, conversely, why can't the PS3 just pass the info and let the receiver handle the processing, like for DTS-MA?
Or are you saying that both the player and receiver need to have the proper codec support in order for it to work.
This is where I'm confused.
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:23PM
Rip,
If you want to decode in the AVR, then the player has to support bitstream out of the codec and the AVR has to be able to decode it. This is essentially what HDMI 1.3 is about.
If you are going to decode in the player (the PS3's only option in regards to next-gen) then the AVR only need support HDMI (pre 1.3 works) and multi-channel PCM audio via the HDMI (most do).
rip @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:51PM
Ah ok, now I think I get it.
Sounds like I'll be ok with a new receiver, with the exception of DTS-MA.
Now I just need to figure out if its worth upgrading my receiver for these new audio codecs... I'm still pretty happy with my current receiver. Well that and the fact that I blew a hole in my HT budget when I bought a Kuro ;)
Thanks for the responses (thanks to John too).
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:53PM
Rip,
Many believe that DTS-HD support is a firmware or two away, but we have been able to get Sony to confirm or deny it.
Chad @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:02PM
Experience with the following:
HD-DVD: Toshiba A2
Blu-Ray: Panasonic BDP-BD30K
Receiver: Denon AVR-3808CI
Both connected via HDMI, 1.2 for the HDDVD player, 1.3a for the Blu-Ray. Codecs are decoded on the HDDVD player, Denon shows "MultiChannel Input" on the display where it would normally show Dolby Digital, DTS, ect. Blu-Ray player works flawlessly as well. I have tested the LPCM which shows up as "MultiChannel Input", same as the HDDVD player. The difference is that when bitstreaming a DTS MA, or Dolby TruHD track to the Denon, it shows DTS MA or Dolby TrueHD depending on what stream it receiving. Word of warning, as the articles says, the use of secondary audio and bitstream decoding will cause the player to down-convert the codec, so it gives you the option to disable it, which I would recommend, who cares about button clicks :) Any way my experience, your millage may vary.
Ryan @ Jan 22nd 2008 4:03PM
This may be a silly question, but I have a PS3 and a Yamaha V1600, so the only thing it doesn't have is 1080p and I just got a Samsung 4671, so I have to bypass the receiver to get 1080p to the TV, otherwise it'd be 1080i. But by doing that, I lose the ability to get 7ch audio from the PS3 by using Toslink. I really don't want to have to ebay my receiver just to keep 1080p and get 7ch PCM. Is there anything I can do? HDMI can't split audio to one device and video to another can it?
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 4:10PM
Ryan,
This is going to sound funny, but you may not be benefiting from the 1080p output. Here's how you can tell.
Order the HQV test disc and with your player set at 1080i use the test patterns to see if your TV properly de-interlaces the 1080i to 1080p. If it passes the tests on the disc, then there is no difference between sending your TV a 1080i vs 1080p.
If your TV fails the test then yeah, you'll have to upgrade your AVR. FYI, my Pioneer PDP-6010FD passes them.
digibob @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:26PM
Ben,
Great article. I have a question about why my PS3 during playing back of BD movies the audio drops out during load scenes. I use the Toslink cable to my Sony STR-DE885. Also my DTS HD MA BDs don't play surround at all only 2.1 channels.
anthonyyu2000 @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:50PM
Im confused. I have a PS3 and an Onkyo TX-SR605 which are connected via HDMI. If my receiver is displaying multichannel does that mean Im getting Dolby Digital HD. The Blu-Rays I have that support Dolby Digital HD are 300 and Superbad.
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:52PM
That sounds like you have it connected correctly, but since I don't have a PS3 or a 605 I don't know for sure.
Kevin G @ Jan 24th 2008 2:30AM
it's probably set up correctly, but make sure your PS3 is set to LPCM, not bitstream (for audio output over HDMI).
to test it, put in 300 and start the movie, then hit square. you can now select between dolby digital and dolby true HD during playback. the latter should sound clearer and more detailed. the difference is pretty clear on my denon 3806 and pinnacle towers.
George @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:52PM
Ben, good article, I think it will help lots of folks out. One thing though, I know you've addressed this in the comments section but I think you should spell it out in your article: tell people with PS3's to not use the bitstream option...if someone has a receiver that does all the new codecs their instinct is to use bitstream...i know multiple people (a/v savvy people too) who make this mistake, and you've indirectly covered it by not including PS3 in the decompressing in the A/V receiver part, but I would spell it out.
Ben @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:55PM
Yeah you're probably right, but I have pointed it out in two previous posts, that were very controversial and I was trying to keep the PS3 fanboys from attacking me in this post. Normally I welcome their hate, but not on a post like this.
George @ Jan 22nd 2008 4:25PM
Perhaps we just need a completely separate article for the PS3 explaining what the settings do exactly and which ones to pick with different equipment. The manual is very useless as far as this goes. Also setting up the various audio formats in the PS3 for what your a/v receiver can accept can be quite daunting, most people have no idea what any of that means. Now we just need someone with a PS3 and all the knowledge to write such a thing.