HD DVD booklet from CES explodes with irony
[Thanks, Rye C.]
[Thanks, Rye C.]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Samisin @ Jan 20th 2008 8:03AM
Top quality news. Thanks EngadgetHD.
Dave @ Jan 20th 2008 8:33AM
Oh, the pain! Stop teh pain! :(
Benj @ Jan 20th 2008 8:34AM
Slow news day?
CDN Crockett @ Jan 20th 2008 8:35AM
Piss off Paul Miller, why is Engadget HD so bias?
Truth Teller @ Jan 20th 2008 8:45AM
Ah well, it was good while it lasted.
Obviously, thanks to Engadget's Warner connection an out and out Blu-bias is the way of things now.
Pity but I guess some folks have a career to try & further, eh?
su6oxone @ Jan 20th 2008 9:51AM
lol @L.S. Maybe if you had a career to "try & further" you could actually afford to buy a HDM player that costs more than $99.
JVirg1 @ Jan 20th 2008 10:18AM
To su6oxone,
That is a peculiar and frankly ignorantly rude response. Even the richest person in the world does not spend more on something unless they are getting something more in return. That is how they stay rich, by not spending more on things or wasting money. And since that 99 player plays movies equally as well as the more expensive ones it is silly to spend the extra. And I am an attorney. Anyway, why I bothered to respond to you is beyond me as you are obviously a child with a response like that.
And to the rest, EngadgetHD has always been biased towards Blu-Ray and now since their owners are Blu-Ray exclusive to think that would change is silly. But like I said before, 90% of the hits they are and have gotten on this web site are from people interested in the format war. They better come up with something else quick. Look at the most commented on threads and all deal with the format war. So instead of gloating and posting silly stuff like this they should be thinking what they will all be doing after the format war is completely over in like 6 months. Although a friend (Also an attorney) randomly told me two days ago he was amazed he got a HD DVD player for 129 that included 7 free movies. I laughed. Then when I talked to him yesterday he thoroughly enjoyed 300 on it. So it may drag on a bit longer.
whoelse @ Jan 20th 2008 11:33AM
If you cant admit that Blu-ray has won, then that's YOUR fault!
John B @ Jan 20th 2008 12:12PM
@su6oxone:
The typical, pompous, arrogant response that I've seen from the extremist BD crowd. "If you can't pay more, then you're obviously not serious about home theatre."
I hope that you don't have to deal with the plebes and bourgeoisie too often. Wouldn't want to ruin your day now, would we?
Jackass.
Joe @ Jan 20th 2008 2:55PM
To Jvirg1,
I am too puzzled why an attorney would bother to take the time to feed an internet troll.
I am inclined to beleive that you actually are an attorney who would read petty internet chat forums because you bother to flat out mention "I am an attorney."
Knowing actual rich people I kow one thing. They do not waste time responing to trolls on the internet. one of the ways they get rich is by concentrating on things that matter.
I also know that if you want to get the best stuff for far below market value hang out in a rich neighborhood. Want a nice leather couch $300. Last years top of the line washer and dryer free in the trash, it was the wrong color. A used Jaguar, no mechanical or cosmetic problems, $2k.
As fas as engadget is concerned, the blu-bias has never been that bad. This is a blog not a main line news source. The prefernce has been shown but I haven't seen facts fabricated to make arguments. Engadget has thrived on the format war and engadgetHD will at some point go away leaving engadget as one of the top(2 or 3) blogs for electronic related items.
Given how corporations work you are an attorney you should know all about that, it is highly doubtful that timewarner had anything to do at all with the bent of this site. It be more believeable to say that Ben got an inordiante amount of perks for the BD group. If this site even mattered in forming opinions.
I'm glad your friend(also an attornry) is enjoying his HD player.
Perhaps my argument didn't have enough weight. Maybe I need to post where I recieved my degress and what they were in? Oh wait I need creditability on my stance on wealth, I'll post up where I live and my total assets and libailities. Of course I'll also have to post my age so people can see where I fall on the age to wealth distribution. Then my profession, of course my job adds a great amount of weight to my words. Oh wait, THAT WOULD BE A COMPLETLY ASSININE THING TO DO!
JVirg1 @ Jan 20th 2008 3:17PM
Uhm Joe
I think you need to get a reality check and stop watching reruns of LA Law. The average attorney makes about 70k a year and is far from rich. I stated that just to show that people who have professions can chose a format based on quality and price and not be ignorant enough just to assume that because something costs more it is higher quality. I am far from rich. I bought an HD DVD player about a year ago and enjoy it. I am fully aware at this point (as well as pretty much guessed when I bought it) Blu-Ray is winning and will win. Not because it costs more. Not because it is superior. The biggest factor was the PS3. HD DVD can brag all it wants about selling 5k to 20k units a month. But the PS3 is selling about 60-80k units a month and would whether it had the Blu-Ray player in it or not. That was too much for HD DVD to battle. But until the Warner announcement they were certainly holding their own which in my opinion speaks heavily of what people want.
If you want to post your balance sheet feel free.
Oh and BTW, I put my pants on one leg at a time and dont spend every weekend at the country club. I am sitting here watching football.
regeya @ Jan 21st 2008 11:36AM
"lol @L.S. Maybe if you had a career to "try & further" you could actually afford to buy a HDM player that costs more than $99."
"A fool and his money are soon parted." --Thomas Tusser
Go right ahead and blow several hundred dollars on an early Blu-Ray player. I'll wait it out with my HD-A3, which plays SD DVDs wonderfully, and HD DVDs just fine. And right now there's not too terribly many titles I'd want on either format, so why bother?
Warner made a decision based on flawed logic. It's probably ultimately the right decision, yeah, but again, for the wrong reasons.
joe @ Jan 22nd 2008 2:02AM
Jvirg1,
There was no reason to bring in your profession. As a lawyer you have some pratice in argument formation. Bringing up profession is trying to build an argument by building an appeal to authority. Why would being a lawyer be any better than being blogger or working at McDonalds? Is it really necessary to mention that your friend is also a lawyer? Lawyers agree! HD-DVD is the way to go. There is no benefit to the bringing profession into it.
The BD won the format war because it did a better job at getting support than HD-DVD. The question HD-DVD supporters never asked was WHY the players had more features and less price. BD had a better business plan. HD-DVD was like the friend in college who maxed out his debts to get popular. When you look deep enough you see that they won't be able to keep their friends.
Bringing a balance sheet into thing makes no sense. I was pointing that out to show mentioning profession makes nosense either.
James @ Jan 20th 2008 9:34AM
Very nice art work.
Paul Fernandez @ Jan 20th 2008 9:35AM
To paraphrase another poster from a few days ago, I also don't remember HD DVD supporters (such as myself) being this infantile with regard to the format war. Most us get it already: with most of the major studios aligned behind Blu-ray (as it really has been from the start), things look grim for the other side.
That said, it hasn't stopped people from buying or renting HD DVDs ("Eastern Promises", "The Kingdom" and "Talk To Me" have been in "Very Long Wait" status in my queue for at least a month now on NetFlix), and this blog's constant anti-HD DVD/pro-Blu-ray slant is reprehensible. Really, all it does is encourage me to buy/rent as many quality HD DVD releases as I can and upscale everything else on DVD, which isn't going anywhere last time I checked and looks stellar on my HD-A3.
Pouring salt in the wound is for fanboys and schoolchildren, and I challenge anyone to find a previous post of mine that wasn't balanced or at least insightful. In short, everyone needs to grow the f*** up!
TJ @ Jan 20th 2008 11:48AM
Believe me, I've run into plenty of infantile HD DVD fanboys. I'm just glad this format war is effectively done. By this time next year, we won't have to worry about this crap, and we can all just enjoy highdef movies, regardless of studio or manufacturers. And with a single format, more people will buy in which will drive down the cost of movies.
regeya @ Jan 21st 2008 11:56AM
Yeah...I can think of a couple from this website alone. Right after I got my player, I was totally for it, but now? People and companies seem determined that Blu's going to win no matter what, so I guess it'll win, and when solid players come out at a better price, you'll likely see me get one. It's not that big of a deal; it's a piece of electronics gear. And I don't understand the other side; why are y'all so desperate for me to feel stupid for owning an HD DVD player? I don't get it at all. I needed a DVD player, the Christmas price war shoved the player into upscaler territory, it upscales well...so why am I supposed to feel stupid again??? Oh...right...because I bought a piece of electronics gear from "the losing side." Seriously, were LaserDisc buyers, Betamax player owners, Dreamcast owners, IBM PS/1 owners, OS/2 Warp owners...shall I go on? Should they all continue to feel stupid, too? I wouldn't think so. People who had those (well, maybe not so much Betamax and PS/1) felt okay with having the losing format for the most part, and those who didn't found buyers for their gear, or at least got their money's worth out of them.
Hey, I got seven movies (ok, so I haven't entered the "5 free disks" hell yet) and snatched up a few titles for giggles. And again, it plays DVDs just fine. Repeat, for the gazillionth time, just how stupid I'm supposed to feel, and I'll remind y'all fanboys that most of you bought early Blu-Ray players.
TFG @ Jan 20th 2008 12:20PM
Is Engadget a Technology News site or just some guy's blog...seems like the latter...
And I still don't understand why this whole thing is considered a "war"...How is having two formats with exclusive content/products any different than PS3 / XBOX 360...or Burger King / McDonalds...or HBO network / Showtime network...or MAC / Windows...
We're already used to being forced to buy separate machines/hardware for different exclusive services...Why does Sony need the monopoly on HDM? Seems to me that having dual formats helps keep competition up and prices down...If HD DVD "loses" then what's to stop Sony from upping the price on Players and Discs or keeping then high like now?
Lastly, since physical HD media will likely "lose" to internet downloading/streaming in the near future, aren't HD DVD and Blu-ray discs then gonna just be used to "back-up" your downloaded movies, TV shows, etc...So in that scenario, they both "lose".
And at the end of the day, isn't it all still 1080p? If I "chose" VHS over DVD, I can see the blunder...But I bought an HD DVD player because I wanted certain films in High Definition...If I want REALLY want "Pirates of the Caribbean" in HD, that means I gotta get a Blu-ray Player. Just like needing to get an Xbox for "Halo 3"...Simple as that...
Lildude56 @ Jan 20th 2008 7:41PM
"If HD DVD "loses" then what's to stop Sony from upping the price on Players and Discs or keeping then high like now?"
This is a very uninformed statement. The thing that will keep Sony from pricing their players up are DVD upscalers.
"Lastly, since physical HD media will likely "lose" to internet downloading/streaming in the near future,"
May I rephrase that to "far future" because what ISP provider would let a person download 15-25 gigs per movie. Plus have you seen the average download speeds in USA lately. Yes, it is very low because the ISP providers say that making it faster will cost alot more money. But digital downloads is already a reality in parts of Europe and Asia. Your president/s keeps saying that they will upgrade the nation's connectivity for better safety measures. Instead they are focusing on other pressing matters *cough*middle east*cough*. Also most streamed videos are most likely compressed that you won't see nearly as much detail as in a Blu-ray/HD-DVD. So what makes you think that digital downloads will prevail in the near future? I think Digital downloads won't even be prevalent until say... 2018, 10 years from now.
~~~~~~~~~~~
TFG @ Jan 20th 2008 9:03PM
"This is a very uninformed statement. The thing that will keep Sony from pricing their players up are DVD upscalers."
If you think the only thing keeping Sony's prices down is Upscaling DVD players, then they are no where near making a dent. Upscaling players are available for under $100 and the DVDs are available for as little as $5.00 BRAND NEW for catalog titles!
"May I rephrase that to "far future" because what ISP provider would let a person download 15-25 gigs per movie. Plus have you seen the average download speeds in USA lately."
This is an uniformed statement...Here is a link to a previous Engadget post:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/30/comcast-ceo-sees-160mbps-internet-in-2008/
160mbps in 2008...
"Also most streamed videos are most likely compressed that you won't see nearly as much detail as in a Blu-ray/HD-DVD. So what makes you think that digital downloads will prevail in the near future?"
The HD delivered to many homes of Cable and Satelitte subscribers is compressed mpeg-2 or mpeg-4...It looks fine for most people. I think that truly uncompressed quality you are thinking of is only for techies or videophiles...Most people just want a picture that looks good on their HD set, compressed or not...The same reason most people are fine with buying and playing music compressed on cd's as opposed to uncompressed on DVDs or DAT Tapes...
mntwister @ Jan 20th 2008 12:36PM
Just an opinion. As all homes change to hd tv's, do you really think people will stop buying discs that match their tv resolution and what it is capable of? This kind of statement is everywhere now from hd-dvd fanboys, but it makes little sense. Downloads are very compressed, most aren't even HD when they claim they are ( see previous story right here on this site). I think you are way off base with your prediction. Blu-ray will really bloom this year! We have 80% (and probably soon to be more) of the studios now doing a huge push!
TigerShark @ Jan 20th 2008 1:12PM
You know what is funny, there is an explosion in the background, and the Paramount characters are running away. Then the message says hang on. Basically it states HD DVD is going down, but hang on, support our sales, then empty out our HD DVD inventory, and when we run out we can go Blu-ray.
Lildude56 @ Jan 20th 2008 2:15PM
You proved my point, Blu-ray will still be competing with upconverters. Plus they will also have internal competition between the various studios within the BR camp.
JimC @ Jan 20th 2008 2:25PM
@John
I have never paid more for a single blu-ray title than $25 and most of them have been less thanks to walmart or Amazon. There's no indication that will change anytime soon. It is my *opinion* that as blu-ray solidifies its position and more people pickup HDTV's, they will and watch HD content from cable/satellite, they will no doubt start to explore HD disc media. Blu-ray has done an excellent job in advertising on HD channels, so the seeds are planted, the adoption will happen...
Truth Teller @ Jan 20th 2008 2:44PM
*quote* su6oxone
Maybe if you had a career to "try & further" you could actually afford to buy a HDM player that costs more than $99.
===========================================================================
Jeez but some of you guys are laughably dreary little obnoxious bully-wannabe oafs.
For those still desperately running with that tedious 'it's all over & we already won' Blu-ray BS I'd just remind you of this little factoid.
2 years into the original video tape war VHS was pronounced dead.
Think on fanboys & girls.
MI @ Jan 20th 2008 8:40PM
That's a joke, right? You don't really expect people to believe that HDVD still has some kind of chance do you!??!
First off, it's simply not true that vhs was 'declared dead 2 years into it'. I was there, and the VHS market simply grew over time and won. One of the main reasons of course was the additional capacity it offered. Ironic, no?
As for the more obnoxious comments out here, when you're only argument for a format is that it's cheap, you've got to expect some people to get on that.
As for the argument that the BD folks are more obnoxious, I'll refer you to Richard Casey's reasons that R&B Films reason for dropping HDVD:
"Richard said that this decision was made prior to Warners decision announcement and he cited "experience with the HD-DVD audience and the abuse I took in the AVS Forum" as his motivation to drop HD DVD support."
That's pretty bad when a studio head, regardless of how big or small the studio may be, drops support for a format because it's supporters are obnoxious.
EEL @ Jan 20th 2008 3:39PM
@ Paul Miller
Just a pic of the cover? Any chance that someone scanned the complete document and uploaded online?
cliff @ Jan 20th 2008 4:44PM
HD style discs will only be here for a short time for those who don't have a good internet connection. For most the days of a disc library on the wall is soon to be gone.
It will all be streaming and the little victory for Blueray will give Sony advantage for a short time, but it will all be streaming sooner than you think!
The discs will soon be sold like vinyl at garage sales for those that take comfort with dusty boxes around full of outmoded technology.
hemmy @ Jan 20th 2008 5:00PM
lolz
mike @ Jan 20th 2008 5:13PM
please. Optical media will always be around. First off, even when our internet conenctions get up there, there are still some people, somewhere who enjoy watching movies and have NO internet connections, let alone slow ones.
Also, hdd storage is always more expensive then disc storage. Even in the future when we can buy 500TB hdds, it will still be cheaper to back up whatever huge ultra hd films they have out on a disc then a hdd (for consumers anyway). Ill never go the digital distribution route. Hard drive space simply is not large enought o store the movies I have. I can only imagine people who have even bigger collections.
Jacob @ Jan 20th 2008 6:59PM
That's like saying we'll never have movies in our homes, that we'll always have to go out to the movie theater to watch movies. Or how about, the average person will never have the capability to record television in his or her home.
You know the technology is coming, and once it does, you'll never wanna go back to the alternative. People like you always have a linear prediction of the future, and ignore the reality of technology, that the pace of technological development is accelerating.
Jacob @ Jan 20th 2008 7:03PM
and by the way, do you really think those people who don't have internet connections will really be the market pushers? I somehow doubt that they will always never have an internet connection.
Gus @ Jan 20th 2008 7:02PM
Brilliant post John (second one.)It makes me laugh how the blu boys are crowing about their victory, unfortunately the spoils of war are very slim pickings.
IMHO, HD DVD was the only chance mass market HD media adoption had, because it was always going to much cheaper, much more quickly.
The market in general is not excited about HD movies, and i think the only way that HD was ever going to get there was with a cheap, but good quality product, HD DVD.
IMHO, all fanboyism aside, BR has no chance of main stream adoption, as you say, it's to expensive and the BDA must be 100s of $millions in the red at this point.
It will be years before it's cheap enough for J6, and by then it's to late, so enjoy your Pyrrhic victory blu boys, BR will never beat DVD, it will never even get close.
Lildude56 @ Jan 20th 2008 7:46PM
You proved my point because if they are still competing, then they would need to develop more efficient and less costly techniques in making BR discs. So as time goes off, the price for each disk will drop. Just look at DVD, it was very pricy back then. Look at it now, its about $10 per movie (where I am)
kcmurphy88 @ Jan 20th 2008 8:00PM
In football, displays like this are 15 yards. I can't recall whether the term is "unsportsmanlike conduct" or "being an asshole."
HDpurist @ Jan 20th 2008 8:40PM
Shrek
Star Trek
Transformers
Is that ALL Toshiba and the HD-DVD farm have to offer????? And they're asking HD-DVD supporters to hang on to only this tiny thread of hope?
Pitiful.
HDpurist @ Jan 20th 2008 8:42PM
Funny thing is, the biggest suckers are not the HD-DVD studios, but the HD-DVD supporters.
Gus @ Jan 20th 2008 10:08PM
We will see who's laughing in 12-18 months when BR will still be languishing against DVD with a pitiful market percentage, because this over priced, elitist product is going no where.
You laugh at HD DVD supporters, your format is going down the same drain, this is a lose lose for both formats, except BR is going to loose the "farm' as well as the house!
DEEZNUTZ @ Jan 20th 2008 11:50PM
HD-DVD failed at marketing and that's why it lost. Toshiba only has itself to blame. Hell I'll even give you HD-DVD'ers the better format title. They had no excuse then... they launched first= more time to reduce cost... they got Paramount/Dreamworks to go exclusive... they fire-sold players back in November... and they STILL lost. Either they didn't have the marketing muscle (read: CASH) or the MS support was really to throw them off their game, misdirect them, and ultimatley prolong the war. Either way, Toshiba should have been more aggressively marketing HD-DVD.
Hamilton International Productions @ Jan 21st 2008 1:29AM
Yep...I agree...This recent foray by Bluray (freestyle rap rhyming) only tells you how screwed up our capitalism can get: If you have enough money, bribe all of the creators of contents (like Sony did) to release their content to work SOLELY on your product, thus, effectively killing any chance of competition and the consumers are locked into the pains of collusion. Here's something for you. In 5 years, mainstream America will not be using optical media for their movie content at all. Movies will be primarily watched via electronic files utilizing solid state technology or something similar, so who cares about the HD DVD war. DVDs are a flawed technology to begin with and will go the way of the CD and the Laserdisc.
Andrew Hamilton
Videographers Las Vegas
http://www.hiproductions.com
Hamilton International Productions
Truth Teller @ Jan 21st 2008 9:08AM
*quote* MI
That's a joke, right? You don't really expect people to believe that HDVD still has some kind of chance do you!??!
=========================================================================
No it's not a joke.
No I don't expect the same "people" you mean - the Blu-ray fans here - to believe HD DVD has a chance.
I do expect the genuine regular general public to be completely oblivious to any of this.
I do expect the genuine general public to do what they are doing - buying HD DVD standalones in relatively huge numbers.
Whether you like it or not HD DVD is going to have exclusive movies for years
(even if everyone went Blu tomorrow - which is not going to happen).
What has just happened is perfectly understandable, natural and normal.
Those that knew hear & saw the Warner move & held back a little to see what happened.
That's the reason for the 15:85 last week - and probably poor numbers for the next few weeks (as well as jan - mar typically being a time of few HD DVD releases - just like it was last year).
This has a long way left to go.
Blu-ray's actual numbers are not that great, they haven't actually won anything.
1stGreg @ Jan 21st 2008 10:50AM
With your great track record for predictions Lie Teller, don't be surprised if we just point and laugh ok? ;)
What was that great turnaroud for HD DVD at the CES again?
This being said, it also is funny to see John B and Gus up in arm, declaring that BR is doomed because it is not "consumer level enough".
Because prices will never go down right? :)
It's not like BR players were $700+ early 07, and now at $349 average right ($299 end of year during the Xmas period)? Oh wait...
And discs, with a $34.99 average MSRP, it's not like we can find them for under $25 already .. oh snap! We can ?
How much is a Day and date DVD releae? $19.99? Really?
Oh snap!
Now about the VHS comment (Lie Teller, you'll have to get me a link about this "it was declared dead 2 years after release" thing), I have another comparison.
When the DVD came about, everyone was saying: It can't record, everyone is happy with VHS, it is way overpriced (initial units at $900+), so it will never make it.
You do know how well the DVD format did, right?
In the end, with more CE makers to compete, more studios, better base technology, Blu Ray -is- more consumer friendly, wether you like it or not.
Prices will continue to go down (on both TVs, players and discs) and eventually the market will phase into Blu Ray instead of DVDs (thanks to the DVD upscaling feature built in the players too).
It'll take time, probably two years or so, but it'll happen once people get used to high def.
Last, about the HD DVD fanboys who claim "maturity" over the average Blu Ray person.
When you have people like Lie Teller and Nfinity on your side (granted Blu Ray has -had?- h4idol), and now Gus, and the name "Blu Gay" gets thrown around, you have -0- claim of superiority, I am sorry to say.
Truth Teller @ Jan 21st 2008 11:24AM
The really hilarious thing about Betamax was it was indeed believed to be the winner in the original video format war for some time because it was the one with all the movie studio support.
Remind me how that one went again......?
LMAO
1stGreg @ Jan 21st 2008 1:47PM
Given that HD DVD is the "new Betamax", yeah, we do all know how it ended :)
But "studio support"? Lol. Originally there were no studio support for either, as they didn't want to release their movies on video when the two formats started (1975 Beta, 1976 VHS).
There were rentals of course, but Beta, having a whole year lead, had initially more titles (though not that much).
The factors that decided the victory of VHS:
#1 - Recording duration (2h vs 1h initially. 4h VHS tapes were rapidly available)
#2 - Amount of CE makers (12 top for Beta, rapidly more than 40 for VHS)
#3 - Price
Myth: Porn (was avail. on both formats)
Myth: Betamax had superior picture (shortly after release they were both at 250 lines. At worst the difference was initially 10 lines of definition 240 vs 250)
Lie Teller created Myth: Studio support
Similarities between HD DVD and Betamax:
First one out, rushed
Lower storage capacity
Only one main backer, and few CE makers to support
(reminder: Blu Ray has 3 main backers, Sony, Panasonic-Matsushita and Philips, and dozens of CE makers behind it)
You will probably say that, like Betamax, Blu Ray is the more expensive format, but it is actually a non issue at this point. DVD was extrememely expensive initially, and it had an amazing success and is now extrememly affordable.
Ah Lie Teller my "friend", you are always good for a laugh in the morning :)
Nirvan @ Jan 23rd 2008 7:13PM
LOL!!!
Ron @ Jan 20th 2008 12:57PM
Its a typo people...it should say "hang on to your receipt."