Poll: Should HD DVD throw in the towel?
by Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Jan 17th 2008 at 9:47AM
Is Toshiba and the rest of the red camp really doing any good at this point by continuing the push for their preferred format, or should they just throw in the towel? While over 50% of you who participated in our poll said you thought Warner would go Blu-ray exclusive, -- nice job by the way -- only 47% thought the move would end the war. What say you now, is the format war over, and is Toshiba just wasting their efforts or is there something left to fight for?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Not Sure Y @ Jan 24th 2008 9:22AM
Seriously since Blu-ray has one and we'll all be buying blu-ray (check the January sales figures) why should we miss out on that last 30% of content because we don't want a second player or the expense of a dual system.
Save our time and our effort. Respect the consumer and just kill HD DVD now.
Does anyone remember some video stores used to stock Betamax tapes. Now a video store turns over stock between 4 and 10 times faster then those old stores. That means it has to move and move fast you simply won't be able to get any HD DVD and stores are already cutting back space.
I died 2 weeks back. Time for the last rights, a short funeral and some co-operation on blu-ray 1.2 or whatever is the next profile.
Greg @ Jan 17th 2008 9:53AM
Man, has any pretense of objectivity at Engadget ever gone out the window.
Augustus @ Jan 17th 2008 10:28AM
Although this is a news outlet, nothing really says that they have to be objective. :-)
Ryan J. @ Jan 17th 2008 2:22PM
Objective obshmective... HD DVD is really at this point.
mike @ Jan 17th 2008 3:49PM
no its just ben. I hate that guy. Every single one of his posts is anti-hd-dvd. Even from the start. Im not talking about being pro blu-ray. Cause he will say something negative about hd-dvd rather then just say something positive about blu-ray any chance he gets. Cant stand him. Worst blogger ever. He needs to go get his own personal blog instead of wasting space on engadget
BrokenFERN @ Jan 17th 2008 4:01PM
Blu 85% to HDDVD 15%....
Any day now Paramount and Universal and Toshiba....
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Trends/Disc_Sales/Blu-ray_Dominates_Disc_Sales_Chart_Post-Warner_Announcement/1383
How much more of this humiliation do you guys want to take?
Greg @ Jan 17th 2008 4:25PM
Not saying that things aren't going badly at the moment for HD-DVD. But, there's been no indication of the format "throwing in the towel." So, the headline falls more under the category of wishful thinking than reporting events. Of course, Engadget or Ben can simply decide to be an open advocate for Blue. There's nothing stopping it. But, many visitors to the blog expect to get even handed treatment on all issues HD here. So, becoming an advocacy site has consequences.
EatingPie @ Jan 17th 2008 10:10PM
Every news source is biased, and given that this is an *editorial* site, that bias will come out far more readily. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I'm all for ending the format war. Now that the chips have fallen enough to ring the death knell, Toshiba holding out is now damaging the adoption of an HD optical format. But that's just, like, my opinion man!
I don't think this poll will take us anywhere to ending the format, but it does show that I'm not in the minority. :-)
-Pie
dman @ Jan 17th 2008 9:58AM
When I can buy a Blu-ray player *with the same features as HD DVD* (i.e. Profile 2.0) for the same $150 I can buy an HD DVD player for, then, and only then, should Toshiba throw in the towel. Until that day, the tide could turn at any moment. All it takes is one studio to switch the other way and suddenly HD DVD is winning.
JimC @ Jan 17th 2008 10:25AM
Under what scenario could HDDVD comeback? Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks releasing every catalog title before May? And monkeys might fly out out of my butt, shaaa, as if...
greekjgg @ Jan 17th 2008 10:26AM
Yea, that makes perfectly GREAT financial sense to switch back to HD Dvd while blu has a 70:30 market share in studio support all because Toshiba is selling a $500 player for $199. Yea, Toshiba is making ALOT of money slashing all their hardware 50%!! LOL
It cracks me up your guys that use this argument that their hardware is cheaper!! They had to mark it down to $99 because nobody would buy it otherwise and you act like Toshiba is doing consumers a favor?
Augustus @ Jan 17th 2008 10:32AM
Once a format is adopted, yes even Blu-Ray, the hardware prices will go down. In fact, they will probably drop even faster that way due to volume sales. The number one thing that drives electronic prices down is volume.
Tony @ Jan 17th 2008 11:05AM
I agree wont be buying Blu-ray until there is a 2.0 profile internet port and the price is down to $200 range. also the media needs to come down in price. I know that amazon you can get good deals but I was in Target two days ago and every single blu-ray disk there was $29.99 except for one.
and to be honest with my DVR and HBO/Showtime and Stars even though there in 1080i and not 1080p there great pictures. and with an external drive added to my DVR i can store dozens of movies
zargon @ Jan 17th 2008 10:49AM
HD-DVD and Warner tried to change the tied by getting Fox. They actually almost had Fox, but they backed out at the last minute. Getting a Blu-ray exclusive studio like Fox was part of the deal for Warner to make the switch, but it didn't happen.
I hate to see it happen this way, but it is over. HD-DVD doesn't have the power now to get a studio and it doesn't help with all these other, mostly minor, studios following suite.
jhfjjjfjg @ Jan 17th 2008 11:00AM
I'm sorry but that's just dumb. BluRay has about 10m players in homes compared to less than 1m HD-DVD ones. How is 1 studio switching going to suddenly change that? All it would do is make it a stalemate again.
It looks like there is a clear winner now and that's what the situation needs. BluRay disks were outselling HD-DVD by 2:1 but last week they outsold them by 5:1 because BluRay is picking up momentum and HD-DVD is losing it. Why on earth would anyone (except Toshiba) want to prolong this any further? You might think that HD-DVD is the better format, I dont. I think the larger capacity of Bluray is important (a single layer 15gb HD-DVD isnt exactly a big leap from a DVD9 is it?) and BluRay are also streets ahead in PC burning drives (you cant buy a HD-DVD one).
I couldn't care less about picture in picture or the other crap HD-DVD fans rant on about, I understand that the new BluRay features have that stuff and more but I'm not interested in it. I want a HD picture and a high capacity disk to burn to and BluRay fits that perfectly.
regeya @ Jan 17th 2008 12:02PM
We'll see what happens this fall. Of course, our unwillingness to part with our money right now will be seen as further proof of stupidity to the fanboys...just wait, guys, we'll be happy to buy into it when the price is right.
Seriously, I can wait. I've not even had a DVD player for five years.
burndive @ Jan 17th 2008 12:29PM
"Under what scenario could HDDVD comeback? Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks releasing every catalog title before May? And monkeys might fly out out of my butt, shaaa, as if..."
It's not a matter of "coming back" as in getting Disney to switch to HD DVD (never going to happen). It's a matter of staying around as a viable format on which HD content is released. The future may very well be combo players, and I actually prefer a world in which at least some of my High-Def media can be easily ripped (and/or played in a Linux player).
JimF @ Jan 17th 2008 9:59AM
How many of the respondents in favor of HDDVD throwing in the towel are PS3 owners who don't own a standalone BR player?
JimC @ Jan 17th 2008 10:28AM
Well, I was a Blu-ray stand alone owner until I bought a PS3 last night, I happy as can be to use a PS3 as a blu-ray player. Other than the shape of the case and the ability to play games in addition to watching blu-ray movies with fantastic quality, what exactly are you trying to get at? Is this a "Oh, its a game machine" argument again? Well, I tell you what, I'm impressed with it. To me, it is a HD Media PC more than a game console. I never realized all that it can do. I've owned a stand alone blu-ray and now a PS3 and I'll dare anyone of you redheads to actually try a PS3 (with blu-ray remote) and then tell me it is "just a game machine"....
Augustus @ Jan 17th 2008 10:33AM
I do not have a stand-alone player, because I bought a PS3 FOR Blu-Ray. I'm at at least 20 Blu-Ray movies and only 2 PS3 games.
Mike_NYC @ Jan 17th 2008 10:54AM
I'm in favor, and i have a hddvd player. Why you ask? Well, like a lot of folks, I figure that it'll still work for all the movies I have now, and I think Blue players will come down faster.
Doogs @ Jan 17th 2008 11:14AM
I have an Xbox 360 w/ the peripheral HD-DVD drive, and I voted that HD-DVD should throw in the towel. The game is up. Blu-Ray has FAR more studio support and, from what I saw at CES, far more hardware support as well.
I'll still enjoy 300, Transformers, etc on my HD-DVD, but I'm sure as hell not buying any more titles.
Could HD-DVD hang on? I guess, but why? Whatever small chance the format has of coming back and offing Blu-Ray would still take years, and I'd rather have the format war ended one way or another.
Vidikron (FU) @ Jan 17th 2008 11:26AM
Why does that even matter? I use my PS3 as BR movie player and have a growning collection of BR movie just like anyone with a standalone unit. You do realize that the studios sell media, right? I'm pretty sure they are just as happy to sell me BR movies as they are selling them to someone with a standalone.
kuromiko @ Jan 17th 2008 1:43PM
Quick answer: A lot of us. PlayStation 3 Consoles are the dominant Blu-Ray player on the market right now.
mike @ Jan 17th 2008 3:58PM
Sony made the right move. the ps3 single handedly won the format war. Without it, theres no way blu-ray would of stood a chance vs the lower pricing hardware from toshiba (greatly lower pric cause stand alone blu-rays where min $700 at a time when toshiba had players for $300).
Sony ended up killing their console however. IT has no games, lost tons of developer support, and is trumped by the 360 in almost every way. Still the right move for sony as owning the next optical media format is sure to be more profitable then their games devision. + good for me since I love all the new games and support the 360 has which also has the best online gaming).
As soon as hd-dvd throws in the towel, MS just needs to release a standalone blu-ray add-on for movies, and that will keep their leading position and cut off the ps3 from success (as a games console)
Chris @ Jan 17th 2008 4:43PM
WHY WHY WHY do you insist on pretending a guy with a PS3 is so much different than a guy with a "stand alone player"?? I have a remote control and I pop in a BD the same way you do!! Give up !!
EGo @ Jan 17th 2008 10:02AM
I was starting to give up hope until I saw they were still the best selling DVD player on Amazon and that people were buying them instead of a DVD upconverter because of the 7 free movies.
JimC @ Jan 17th 2008 10:30AM
And all those people will wonder when the new movies are released, why they are not available in HD for HDDVD....
John B @ Jan 17th 2008 11:41AM
JimC,
Are you *actively* trying to become h4ldol's replacement, or is it just a coincidence?
regeya @ Jan 17th 2008 12:49PM
Ah, yes; they are great upconverters. Have one myself. Will purchase Blu when feature-complete stand-alone players come out later this year (provided they're not more than the cost of a MacBook, of course...at close to a grand, why would I buy a standalone instead of a multimedia PC...)
Matt @ Jan 17th 2008 10:10AM
I don't own either. I don't prefer either. But somebody has to win so folks who don't like getting screwed can start collecting HD movies, myself included. Things are leaning blue, so I'm voting blue. That's all there is to it.
jason @ Jan 17th 2008 10:10AM
with 85:15 ratio in favor of blu last week, I think it's only going to get worse.
JayHDDVD @ Jan 17th 2008 10:35AM
Funny, the results almost match the studio numbers.
75 to 25%
Joe Maki @ Jan 17th 2008 10:28AM
I have 2 HDDVD players and a standalone BD player but I can see the writing on the wall. We all just need to move on.
MidnightDT @ Jan 17th 2008 10:29AM
you guys should change the EngadgetHD logo to blue, and add "The Future is Blu" under it in tiny font. that would be cool right
Elad @ Jan 17th 2008 11:39AM
Why? Because the made a poll that gave two clear options. Yes or No? How is that biased. Just because HDDVD is getting killed in a poll by readers doesn't make them biased. You're an idiot.
greekjgg @ Jan 17th 2008 10:29AM
For $399 I can have a blu player that plays at 1080p and play games, browse the internet, etc. The ps3 is truly an entertainment center.
Prior to the slash and burn sale announced this week you had to spend $400 to get 1080p on DUD and thats all it does? LOL
WiFiSpy @ Jan 17th 2008 10:32AM
or you could buy and HD-A3 + Apple TV for the same price :P
John B @ Jan 17th 2008 10:39AM
Ah, yes, another bit of arrogance regarding 1080p when it's just about been agreed by everyone in the know that 1080p for movies that are filmed in 24 fps is almost unnoticeable when compared to 1080i.
**sigh**
Honestly, I want this war to end just so the fanbois (on both sides) will just shut the f*ck up.
dman @ Jan 17th 2008 10:49AM
Now you're just making stuff up. I bought my 1080p HD A30 for $198 in December. Don't make up stuff that a 1080p HD DVD player was $400 before last week. It shows how skewed a Blu-ray users idea of pricing is. HD DVD has been around the $200-$250 range for about 3 months now, not 1 week.
hhaller @ Jan 17th 2008 10:30AM
Since the studios are more or less whoring themselves for cash now, there's no telling what will happen.
Highest bidder wins.
JimC @ Jan 17th 2008 10:32AM
As long as you realize HDDVD paid Paramount/Dreamworks to whore themselves out to HDDVD first....
Lumpmoose @ Jan 17th 2008 10:32AM
I'm an HD DVD supporter to the point of owning hardware, but I still voted to end it. With Apple now joining the Xbox in distributing HD and SD movies to the living room, HDM is facing its biggest competitor yet. Even Blu-ray got full industry support, they still might lose to online distribution. I want the higher-quality discs to succeed, but if the format war continues, they won't have a chance and we'll *all* have defunct hardware.
Augustus @ Jan 17th 2008 10:39AM
I'm pretty worried about downloadable movies too. We need media in order to keep any rights we have to watching those movies on our terms, and without being monitored. Of course, you can argue that the copy-protection already offers some level of control, at least we still don't have to have a constant Internet connection in which we are attached at the hip to one company. Apple scares me with the amount of control they have over their DRMed content.
Ryan J. @ Jan 17th 2008 10:35AM
We have A LOT to thank HD DVD for. I own both HD DVD and Blu-ray, and know that they both have their good and bad points. The fact is that we all know that a single format would be best for the market. Blu-ray clearly has HD DVD on the ropes, and it is only a matter of time before Blu-ray wins. Toshiba, do the right thing and bow out so we can all get on the same format and enjoy some movies :)
Harry DeBusk @ Jan 17th 2008 10:38AM
I much prefer HD-DVD because the format specs are finished and stable (The BluRay specs are still not final). Also, regular (old) DVDs play fine in an HD-DVD player, and to manufacture HD-DVD requires no special retooling by the disc replicators. However, things to consider:
1. Whichever one of these gets an HD recorder out at a good price point will definitely have a huge edge.
2. Regular SD DVDs, properly made, look fantastic on a good HD television. So what's the point?
3. I'm not sure it's relevant. Downloadable movies are definitely the future. I'm using that now through Netflix. It works great, even broadcast through my home on wireless G. Anytime I don't have to mess with a disc I'm happy. We're still a year or two away from that, and it doesn't work well for people without broadband, but downloadable is the future, not disc.
PS: Apple's model of renting movies online one at a time is a loser prospect; too expensive. But the new Apple TV 2 that Jobs just talked about is an interesting idea if used with the Netflix approach. Personally, I'm using Windows Media Center with an extender box for my TV, which is phenomenal.
greekjgg @ Jan 17th 2008 10:45AM
The specs are finished just in time for the format to be finished!! LOL Spec's changed on reg sdvd too so conveinently you forget? SdVD's play just fine upscaled in my ps3 too!! BSG looks great!!
What's next? Yours looks prettier?
JimC @ Jan 17th 2008 10:49AM
Talking points...
Vidikron (FU) @ Jan 17th 2008 11:40AM
1. Maybe in the PC market. I don't know very many people with those standalone DVD recorders. I think their impact is minimal.
2. Whatever floats your boat. DVDs, even upconverted, aren't even remotely close to the quality provided by good BR and HD DVDs. I've take HD movies any day.
3. Well, as is apparent by you rprevious point, you obviously don't care too much about quality... so I'm sure you're willing to sacrifice quality (both video and audio) for convenience. And make no mistake, that's exactly what will happen with digital distribution to keep file sizes down. Also, even though the physical media has some form of DRM too, I have a feeling that HD digital downloads will be DRM'd to the max. At least with physical media I can take it with me and play it on a BR player. And if I want a digital copy I'll just rip it myself (because, yes, any DRM on a physical disc will be cracked eventually). Physical media gives me the best quality and the most options.
andyg8180 @ Jan 17th 2008 10:34AM
i say screw it and leave both formats... Blu-ray sucks over-all and are already screwing customers and backers by constantly releasing new "Profiles" that can only be upgraded on the PS3... But, since theres fans on both sides of the line, i say Warner should go back to both sides and let the people choose...
You know damn well that Samsung and other Blu-Ray manufacturers are pissed that all their current players are shit after they just got settled with 1.1 and now have to go 2.0... Ohhh i love HD-DVD ethernet ports with firmware upgrades... ANOTHER thing missing in stupid blu-ray players...
and to the ones saying, "oh lets just get a winner," Youre asking for higher jacked up prices... The war brought physical media to a reasonable price... If its not priced reasonable, people will just shoot over to the internet and download it...