http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/ Engadget HD Comments for Blu-ray interactive features on display @ CES http://www.engadgethd.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadgethd.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 4:48PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/

How exactly is that done without an internet connection?

I know the PS3 fans will be fine with what they're touting, but I know I'd be more than a little upset about dropping 400 or 500 bucks on a "blu-ray" player only to not have it able to use the "blu-ray features".

Seriously, are they just going to leave people in the lurch there (I would assume "yes, that's what you get for beta testing.")]]>Jan 7th 2008 4:59PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 5:02PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 5:14PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 5:11PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 5:16PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 5:19PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/
True, BluRay is "winning" -- but winning and better aren't necessarily coupled.

On a completely different note:
The advantages of good software are obvious. Many people don't see too much point in the extra BluRay capacity, though, so here's my thoughts on that:

My hope is that the extra capacity for BluRay will actually lead to things being cheaper in a few circumstances:

1) TV Series' on BluRay needing fewer disks. If a whole season fits on fewer disks, it'll be cheaper to make...and hopefully the savings will get passed on to the consumer. This will work for "HD" TV shows...but I'm also thinking about things like "The Simpsons" -- if they released a DVD quality season on BluRay disks, they could probably get the whole season on one disk. That would be cheaper than 5 DVD's or 2 HD-DVD's, and it'd also be very convenient when you wanted to watch them -- just pop the Season 2 disk in and find your episode instead of having to figure out which disk has the episode you want.

2) "Double Feature" movies -- I'm finally starting to see these on DVD -- 2 or 3 movies in the same genre (or sequals of each other) without extras on one DVD. WalMart has a bunch right now: 2-3 movies that are a few years old on one disk for under $10. More capacity on BluRay means you can fit more movies on one disk if you want to...which bodes well for cheap offerings in the future.

3) Long movies -- others have already pointed out: LOTR extended editions on one disk. woo!]]>Jan 7th 2008 5:41PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/
There are so many things they could do with Blu-Ray that they haven't started doing yet. Not only do I want to see shows that were never released in hi-def put onto one or two discs instead of 5, but, considering the PS3 uses Blu-Ray, they could put anthologies of games on one or two Blu-Ray discs. If they coupled that with extra gameplay, they could create seamless mega games. Can you imagine being able to play through the entire Metal Gear Solid series all at once as if it were one huge game? How about using that possibility to solve the Guitar Hero controller incompatibility issues you have with the PS3. It would be nice to have all of the songs from all of the Guitar Hero games on one disc. In terms of collections being put on less discs, that is probably something we will start to see more of now that Warner is only doing Blu-Ray. It seems as though the reason why some of the seasons of things took up as many discs as they did was because they wanted to give as close to the same experience as they could for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD owners. Therefore, if HD-DVD took 4 discs to fit a season, Blu-Ray also used 4 discs. Thus, doing so would have caused Blu-Ray's seasons to be cheaper without any sacrifices, whereas the only time Warner's Blu-Ray movies were cheaper was when they didn't have a DVD side on them like the HD-DVDs had. I really don't know if you can say that HD-DVD is better as much as you can say more complete, though. The advantages that HD-DVD has over Blu-Ray are all things that can be done with Blu-Ray but just aren't. While HDi may be faster than BD-J, BD-J is more flexible in what it allows the programmer to do. Just give the programmers some time to get used to BD-J and it will probably start running smoother as well. ]]>Jan 7th 2008 6:03PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 6:33PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 7:50PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/
Warner didn't say they had the customer in mind directly: They said that with the format war, people were reluctant to buy either format and were also slowing down DVD purchases in anticipation of one day buying the same movies on an HD format. Warner admitted they were in it for the profit: to get people buying more of their movies.

They chose a format...it happened to be the one that has been selling more media (even for the most recent dual-format Warner release, Harry Potter, right?). That makes sense for Warner, a movie company -- they want to sell more movies. If customers are buying the "less finished" format as you point out, why would Warner waste more time selling fewer movies to try to change their minds? Warner went with what was more popular to try to bring the financially detrimental format war to an end ASAP.]]>Jan 7th 2008 6:39PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/What, you thought the harware to do all that was free on HD DVD with your $98 A2's and the $199 A3 / $299 A30s?

Toshiba has massively discounted its players under fabrication cost (to the point of having its firesales banned in several states). If memory serves, a technical article estimated the cost of the components needed to support HDi close to $300-$400 (you got to have a mini PC to do this, or dedicated components that aren't cheap).

The Blu Ray point of view is that a rationale and sustainable economic model (for a group of CE makers. Sony discounts its PS3 in the console market - but the problem is different there, everyone but Nintendo does it) you do not "give away" your technology.
For something like the "profiles", if you have to release early (pushed by Toshiba trying to take an early lead), you do so with waves of options, those being backward compatible.
When the new wave (1.1, next 2.0) arrives, you make the choice of a cheaper player (expect a price drop with the 1.0, which will then fade away) or a more costly one with more options.
Did you now that the first LD players did not support Dolby Didital? Did you know that the first ones who did couldn't do DTS? when DTS became more widespread, did it make all the DD only players die overnight?
I bet ya too that the first DVD players could not do a lot of the things we enjoy today.

Toshiba tried to run away by massively discounting a technology that should have placed the A2's easily around $700. Retailer margin got thin, Toshiba's being inexistant.
Who was going to pay the "real" price of those machines?
When were we going to see other CE makers adopt HD DVD, when the margins are so low and Toshiba literally giving its players away?
Onkyo gave up, and Venturer cannot place its players lower than $200 (so much for the "cheap" Chinese players eh?).

HD DVD was an unsustainable model from the get go, it just lured wannabe first wave adopters who did -not- have the means to be first wave adopters. You are now pissed, when it only takes 10 seconds of brain use to see that it was never going to work.
Frankly, the best option right now is to enjoy the HD DVDs you have, enjoy a pretty good upconverter DVD player, and either enjoy the BR Bogos (which will continue, as part of the war vs DVD) to build your catalogue, or wait Xmas 08 to enjoy affordable 2.0 BD players.

Or you can whine and B*tch another 6-12 months.
Your choice :)]]>Jan 7th 2008 6:45PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/
You're mixing stuff up here. The $99 sale of the A2 was below the cost of the A2, so wasn't allowed in a few states. The other players are NOT being sold below cost as far as anyone can tell. Considering the Venturer is an A3 reference design, and they're being sold for $199 or less, I find your estimates for HDi to be long outdated.

BTW - I thought that nobody cares about these features? That's what BD fanboys used to say when it wasn't available to them, anyway.]]>Jan 7th 2008 7:50PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 8:18PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/
Nobody cares still. But, they've got to try and do *something* to welcome the HDDVD folks left hanging into the fold, I mean, the HDDVD fanboys kept slinging it at the other camp's faces all year, so it must be somewhat important to them? :)


1stGreg, nice post. ]]>Jan 7th 2008 8:19PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 6:52PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Extra features on HD-DVD = sellling point
Extra features on Blu-Ray = reason to complain

It's not like the space that this file is taking up is keeping something else off of the disc, so why are you complaining about it? If you aren't going to use it, just don't use it and stop bitching.]]>Jan 7th 2008 8:17PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/
Same as if Toshiba but extras on their HD DVD's that could only be played back if you owned a Toshiba TV. Sony is trying to become the next Microsoft and I hate that.

If it is simply a unprotected MPEG4 transfer, great...I have a feeling they are trying to make this like Minidisc where you have to buy all their equipment to get use of all the features.]]>Jan 7th 2008 8:25PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/
so what are the copyright rules for dead formats again?]]>Jan 7th 2008 7:24PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 7:36PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/
Your best example of HDi is that you've escaped "DVD style menus"? I'm sure HDi is great and all...but who looks at menus as a feature?

You seriously think HiDef media sales in 2008 will only be 2-3% higher than in 2007? Care to come back in a year and eat your words?

Can you clarify why you declare "Sony fought dirty" when, at least in terms of real news announcements, it was the HD-DVD camp that spent $150 million buying out studios? Warner has denied any payoff for their Blu commitment -- they pointed to the fact that consumers were buying more BluRay disks. That sounds like a consumer choice to me. If you think consumers made a bad choice, that's a different story...

Region free optical media isn't everybody's dream -- very few real people import movies, so very few people care. Likewise, the region coding means that if, say, a movie is still in theaters in china, the BluRay disk can come out in the US. No region locking for HD-DVD left the potential for later disk releases.

HD-DVD was cheaper, sure...but there was exactly 1 company building HD-DVD players (even the chinese Venturer model had Toshiba guts). And while everybody likes to pretend that 1080i and 1080p are the same, many 2007 TV's don't do the conversion properly (http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1107hook2/) -- so keep in mind that the cheapest HD-DVD players were only 1080i, and 1080p models were generally within $100 of BluRay costs. Now, with the format war seemingly in the bag for BluRay, you'll have everybody and their dog manufacturing BluRay players, competition will be there, and cheap-o players will appear (just like they did for DVD).]]>Jan 8th 2008 12:52AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/01/07/holiday-ps3-sales-topple-one-million-mark]]>Jan 8th 2008 12:54AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/
i really wanted hd dvd to take it... but it really is a case of rooting for the underdog.

people say toshiba should just cut its losses and make a great blu-ray player... but theres alot of (foolish) pride at stake.

The captain's gotta go down with the ship, i suppose... and when you're gonna go down, i figured you'd go down in flames... but it ends not with a bang, but a whisper.

Enough cliches?

With a shakey hand, i swipe my credit card, damn you blu-ray ;P]]>Jan 7th 2008 8:31PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/Jan 7th 2008 11:30PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/blu-ray-interactive-features-on-display-ces/
I didn't think about it till I read some of these threads but I can honestly say I wasn't missing Guillermo Del toro's face or hand movements during the Directors commentary.

There are many people that Really aren't lying when they say they don't care that much about the extra features. Even when there are extra features, many of them aren't that much better and honestly I don't know that I'll be all that impressed that I can see a little box up in the corner in the way of the film with some guy just sitting there probably not making lots of hand gestures while he or she talks about the process that went into the filming.

I'm not against having more features, but seriously, for alot of us, some of these features will rarely, if ever, be used.

So, really, it's nice to have them, but I don't think many people with 1.1 or even 1.0 Blu-ray players are going to be steaming about missing out on the "Use your remote as a controller to shoot the baddies in a single level 1999 style FPS game we put on this HD movie Disc" feature.
]]>Jan 8th 2008 4:45PM