Poll: Have you seen a movie on a 4K projector?
by Darren Murph 
posted Jan 5th 2008 at 12:00PM
Considering the recent surge in 4K projector installations that we've seen across the globe, we began to wonder just how many of you readers have actually had the pleasure of sitting down -- bucket of popcorn in hand -- and catching a major motion picture on a 4K PJ. Granted, we don't expect the majority of you to nod your head in affirmation or anything, but for the few that have lived this dream, why not give those of us still longing a few lines detailing the experience?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Chad @ Jan 5th 2008 12:10PM
Lucky enough to live in indianapolis and got to visit the new AMC 14 where all the screens are the new Sony SXRD projectors. The best way to discribe it is WOW. Absolutely zero scratch marks on the film, very good color. I have seen both I am ledgend and National Treasure, both films looked great. One downside...a friend of mine what there when they lost power a few weeks ago during a movie. He said it took a little over 30 minutes for the projectors to "boot up" as it was discribed. He did say they got the movie back to the point in the film where it had left off, so part of the time could be in regards to that. I would highly recommend seeking they screens out if you get a chance.
jmattick @ Jan 5th 2008 1:29PM
I didn't realize Indianapolis had one yet. I know what I'll be doing tomorrow. :D
therpham @ Jan 5th 2008 2:19PM
Oh, man! I didn't know you guys had one of those up there. Looks like I might be making a short road trip the next time something I really want to see comes out.
earthling @ Jan 5th 2008 12:24PM
Great color, no scratches, terrific fidelity. The most interesting thing for me however is the lack of gate weave. Gate weave is the effect caused by the film moving over the sprockets as it passes in front of the projection lamp. The holes and sprockets don't align perfectly and in most cases there is a significant amount of 'weave' or motion. Its most apparent when watching a normal 35mm projector when you see the title sequence, instead of being locked down in one place it moves around. When you see a digital projection the film is locked down, it creats a much more watchable experience, the film appears clearer simply because your brain doesn't have to integrate all of that motion into a stable image.
jcjohn @ Jan 5th 2008 12:25PM
is there a map? or a locater?
Even as a movie buff - I've never seen it advertised.
Zodiac @ Jan 5th 2008 12:46PM
Yes, I'd really like to know please. Where the heck can I find out where one is?
J. Oatmon @ Jan 5th 2008 12:48PM
I had a chance several years ago at NAB to see 4K video (DLP) projection. It was so clear that it looked like I was looking out a window, even up close (within a few feet of the screen). Bright colors, no LCD persistence issues (bleeding). Some day, I'd love to see that in a local theatre. I can dream, I suppose.
locke6854 @ Jan 5th 2008 1:07PM
Our local Carmike theater just got a huge city donation for a bowling alley and new movie theater to replace the *very old* one we have.
The mayor decided to raise sales tax a tiny bit, but that we've been wanting an update for a long time and voted to accept the sales tax raise (it'd affect point of sale at stores like walmart in the immediate area)
With that money we got a new stadium-seating theater, WITH 4k DIGITAL PROJECTORS! And I can definately notice the difference. You can sit up closer without the movie going blurry. And it looks calibrated or something because i've never seen projector black levels look so deep.
But alas, some of my friends dont even notice a difference... and I think they're crazy... but these are the same people who don't have HD service on their HDTV and are fine with it.
chicagofilms @ Jan 5th 2008 2:02PM
I guess I'm spoiled. The theater 2 miles away has 2 DLP screens and another theater about 7 miles away has one DLP.
I'll generally only see movies if they're digital now. Film is crap in comparison.
The experience is really great and it's what got me going to the theater again. For a while I'd only go to see a major film in the theater because the experience at home on DVD was so much better. With digital, it's like watching a Blu-Ray on the big screen. It's made seeing a movie in a theater an awesome experience again.
A 48" 1080p set and a Blu-Ray movie is very cool to watch, but seeing a film on a 50' screen with digital projection is way better.
Daryll Strauss @ Jan 5th 2008 2:09PM
Uh, I hate to burst people's bubbles, but even if your theater has a 4K projector you were probably watching 2K content. In fact, you're seeing compressed 2K+. Everything described so far is very true for digital content in general. The quality is great. Some of the early digital projectors were 1K (during the Star Wars run) and you really could see the scan lines. Today's 2k+ projectors don't exhibit any digital flaws.
Let me back up a bit and explain. I work in Hollywood and my company (http://digitalordnance.com) produces an uncompressed 2K play back system. Our systems are used in places like Technicolor and Disney for creating the digital masters. Those masters are then encoded in to what's known as a digital cinema package (DCP). The DCP is about 150GB of data depending on the compression, audio, and the length of the film. That's about a 10-15 to 1 compression of the 2K material. The DCP uses JPEG2000 to compress the individual films. These DCPs are encrypted and provided to the theaters for play back.
I've seen 4K material on a 4K projector. These sorts of things are done as private screenings for people in the industry. The Sony SXRD projectors are quite good, although each time I've seen them, they've had some color accuracy problems. One of the pieces I saw was a copy of Cars that was rendered in 2K and in 4K. (Although both of those sources were still compressed). The detail on the 4K version was astounding.
But there's a big caveat. If you're sitting more than about 1-1.5 screen heights from the content you couldn't tell the difference. Your eye doesn't have the detail to see if. Instead you really need to sit in the front rows of the theater. This is the same issue people talk about with HDTVs. If you sit too far from your HDTV you can't tell the difference between 1080p and 720p.
The other issue is that although JPEG 2000 is very good, if you know what you're looking for you can see artifacts from the compression. On our play back systems I've been able to run compressed JPEG 2000 next to uncompressed 2K and shown the technical staff at various facilities the difference.
We'll be releasing a uncompressed 2K stereoscopic version of our product shortly and uncompressed 4K isn't too far off on the horizon.
locke6854 @ Jan 5th 2008 2:59PM
well if the package is 150 gbs, considering blu-ray dual layer is 50gb, then I'd imagine we wouldn't be able to detect the compression unless the movie was paused and we were really looking for it in the front rows....
Xyzzy @ Jan 5th 2008 2:46PM
I don't know if I have or not. I saw Revenge of the Sith in digital in the theaters, but no idea if it was 4K or not.
Nate the Prophet @ Jan 5th 2008 2:49PM
My wife and I only see movies on our local DLP digital projector in Dayton, OH. We drive past 5 or so theaters on the way to that one, but it is SO WORTH IT.
Frankly, it's the only reason we have to go to a movie theater these days, since our HD home theater is so nice--and we are not the only ones. You will see that trend continue, unless theaters can do more to entice people to come in (better quality projectors, lower prices, etc.).
Mischa Lockton @ Jan 5th 2008 2:55PM
This technology is terrific, but are there any GOOD films out on this? I am not paying for National Treasure 2, I would rather save up for a 4k in my house.
Jake @ Jan 5th 2008 2:57PM
We have an NA "Cinema De Lux" right around the corner, and they have two "Digital DLP" screens, but I've been unable to find out exactly what kind of tech they are trying to describe there. Could be 2k, could be 4k. The timing of their appearance and the very upscale nature of the neighborhood and theater suggest that they might be 4k (they just got them in the last 6 months), but I haven't been able to verify.
Jake @ Jan 5th 2008 3:02PM
UPDATE: Well, I guess TI doesn't make a 4K DLP chip, which means our theater is using 2K.
http://www.dlp.com/cinema/faq.aspx#8
locke6854 @ Jan 5th 2008 7:55PM
ooh... yea my theater is Texas Instruments DLP, so its 2k not 4k.
Still looks gorgeous. And they never have stretch-o-vision on the pre-movie commercials and trailers like they used to sometimes (like those amatuer filmmaker coke commercials)
timatl @ Jan 5th 2008 3:48PM
i live in columbus,ga and all of the carmike cinemas theaters are all digital DLP. the picture quality is great
the_boo @ Jan 5th 2008 4:12PM
The only projector that is 4K is the Sony. I the old dual lamp model running a few tests about a year ago. I saw the DaVinci code which looked like utter rubbish, the contrast was completely crushed, and the overall compression was obvious. The only content they ran at the time that looked any good were 4K clips from the Sound of Music and Music Man, both of which were astounding, however I think they probably would have looked just as good in 2K on a DLP. The older model of Sony's projector couldn't light a screen more than 26' wide properly and I understand the new model is much better, you won't notice the 2K to 4K difference on a 26' screen, but what about the 70' screen that the NEC DlPs can fill?? If Sony gets their light output up they may be a viable option, until then the only time theatres will install them is when they are in pissing matches.
Ameen @ Jan 5th 2008 4:35PM
Well, i live in Chennai, India and we have a local theater(which is supposedly the only one in India) that has DLP.. The call it "RDX" Real Digital Experience.. I've been so spoiled by that, now i dont go to movies which dont have that "RDX" Tag.. Saw "I Am Legend" lately.. Damn good picture quality, zero scratch marks.. I hope these guys upgrade it to a 4K Projector.
Btw check out www.sathyamcinemas.com.. These guys rock..
norm @ Jan 5th 2008 4:39PM
The Toronto Internation Film Festival uses Christie digital projectors at several of its venues, and they must have upgraded the machines this year, because the presentation was just terrific for both material shot on HD video (like Michael Moore's latest) and projects originated on film.
I agree with Earthling's comment; the lack of visible weave -- which I'd always referred to as "judder", apparently incorrectly -- is a startling and wonderful aspect of the digital cinema experience. You don't realize how accustomed you are to a slightly unsteady image until you see a movie open with conventional white-on-black credits that are absolutely rock-steady.
Colors are nice, too.
PeteCE @ Jan 5th 2008 5:08PM
I've also been to the AMC Castleton 14 theater in Indianapolis, and I was quite impressed. Generally speaking I've been hesitant to the use of digital projectors for artistic reasons (losing the warmness of film, etc.). I can say that I didn't notice a single problem; nor did I feel like I was watching a large TV screen. It moved like film, looked like film (albeit very clean), and was no distraction whatsoever. I'm convinced.
The best part was that we found out that by accident that on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and holiday mornings before noon the cost is only $5 a person. Makes movies affordable again.
shakes2 @ Jan 5th 2008 5:17PM
I was just looking over the repsonses to this post and I am thinking that MOST people that have said they have seen 4k, really have only seen digital projection. Sure your Christie, Sony, or TI based DLP/LCD's look good but how many have seen 4k content on a 4k projector? I saw the Opening Night Gala of The Seattle International Film Fest, playing Garth Jennings Son of Rambow using what I remember them claiming to be a 4K projector issued to them for the event. The content was probably 2k as I cannot find that it was filmed in 4K anywhere on the web but it looked spectacular. Most theaters in my area are running Christie projectors and I have to explain that there is a difference.
One thing I am thinking about is whether I thought that the picture quality in the venue I saw this movie was superior to the Quality of the picture in the Boeing IMAX theater (IMAX film is heavily controlled to end a lot of the problems found in normal film like brighter bulbs and vacuum sealed film mounting)
http://www.seattlefilm.org/festival/film/detail.aspx?FID=32&id=24455
Thameth @ Jan 6th 2008 3:50AM
Anything filmed can be scanned at 4k resolution. So any movie shot on 35mm can be shown at 4k because 35mm has beyond 4k resolution. Sony scans all their movies at 4k for downres to BluRay and archival purposes.
The only way that I know of to shoot 4k digitally is with the RED camera. And 4k features are coming and they'll be coming often in 2008 and 2009. There are currently around 4-5 big budget hollywood films being shot on RED's.
Galley @ Jan 5th 2008 5:21PM
I don't know if it was 4K, but I saw "Star Wars Episode III" on a Lucasfilm-licensed theater, here in Greenville, SC. The image quality was OMGWTFBBQ!
Charles @ Jan 5th 2008 10:41PM
Considering Episode III was shot on a 1080p CineAlta, you'll never see it in 4K unless they do some nifty upconversion tricks.
blake @ Jan 5th 2008 5:28PM
I dont know if these are all 4K but I do make special trips to see films digitally, on a DLP cinema. To me there is just no comparison. I understand there are two types of DLP, 2K and 4K. Knowing where I live in the country (Arizona) there are no 4K projection systems here. However, the instant I hear about one nearby (whether here in Tucson or even up in Phoenix) I will definitely check them out.
Toby @ Jan 5th 2008 6:07PM
Blade Runner: The Final Cut on a 4K projector at the Astor Theatre in Melbourne. Beyond awesome.
Redhawksrymmer @ Jan 6th 2008 5:11AM
Unfortunantly I havn't got around to see a film on a 4K projector just yet, as far as I know. Are IMAX theatres (went to see Beowulf 3D at the BFI Imax theatre in London yesterday) digital 4k? I'm asking because it looked pretty sharp to me with none of the usual film grain you usually see. :)
Big John @ Jan 5th 2008 7:22PM
Since it got lost, I'll ask again and hope the E:HD editors see it:
How about a map or list of theaters with 4K? Or hell, 2K? DLP? One theater here has a few DLP projectors I think? I'd be nice to know for sure.
gt350 @ Jan 5th 2008 8:41PM
At CEDIA JVC had a 15 min 4k movie, it was great--but 2k in the same room wasn't bad either. So when 4k gets here wonderful, 2k is fine for me now.
the_boo @ Jan 5th 2008 10:08PM
To clarify there are not two types of DLP. Texas Instruments makes the DLP chip, they are the only maker of the DLP chip, anything with that name on it contains TI equipment whether it is Christie, NEC, or Barco (which are the major players in the industry). Sony (again) makes the only 4K projector currently available, it uses the LCoS process which Sony chooses to call SXRD (which is funny becuase they just killed the SXRD RPTV line). Unles TI comes up with a 4K DLP chip don't expect it to take off, Sony's products are not well respected within the theatre industry.
Charles @ Jan 5th 2008 10:44PM
Most D-Cinema theaters use 2K DLP projectors. You'll be lucky to find a theater equipped with the Sony 4K SXRD projectors.
There is a local Carmike near me that uses Christie 2K DLP projectors. They are extremely nice. I prefer heading to that theater, which is much further than a different theater near my house, simply because it's digital. The other theater has a shitty film projector. Awful gate weave. The studio releases I've seen are just so much cleaner in digital (despite being telecined from film on a Spirit machine).
Charles @ Jan 5th 2008 10:46PM
While it is unfortunate Sony killed their RP SXRD line, they'll continue investing in LCoS technology while they sell their front projectors.
HDTVFanAtic @ Jan 5th 2008 11:28PM
Apparently, most people here seem to be mistakenly thinking their 2k Cinema (if indeed they are even 2k projectors) are showing 4k movies.
I saw SW3 at one of the few 2k theaters (Archlight Dome in Hollywood) and you could clearly see the pixels in any bright scene. I know of another person in San Francisco that saw the same thing after viewing a 2K projector there as well.
I have seen 4k clips at the NAB and SkyWalker Ranch - and I assure you there are no pixels showing in what I saw in those places. The picture blew away the 2K Theater units.
Deathwish238 @ Jan 6th 2008 3:21AM
For those that live in/near Austin the Galaxy Highland 10 has nothing but DLPs, 10 of them I believe
Also, where can one find a list of 4k theaters?
Thameth @ Jan 6th 2008 3:55AM
I will also agree with most that there should be a website dedicated locating digital theatres and letting you know if they're 1k, 2k, or 4k.
I wish Marc Cuban would open one of his 4k theatres here in South Florida