http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/ Engadget HD Comments for Warner to finally go Blu-ray-only at CES? http://www.engadgethd.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadgethd.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 12:40PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 12:50PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
I remember when the ps3 was suppos to come out for the 05 holidays..then the 06 winter..then spring of 06...then when backed into a corner fall 06. All to mislead consumers from buying from their competitor. Same stuff here. I have my $99 A2 and am happy and plan on preordering twister soon for may 2008 from warner.]]>Dec 7th 2007 12:55PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 15th 2007 10:30AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
Consistently, Blu versions of multi-format releases sell better on BD. Day and dates from Warner make the top ten on BD, but not on the red format.]]>Dec 7th 2007 2:10PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
Toshiba and M$ have played the same card. ]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:00PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 10th 2007 6:28AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
Toshiba and Microsoft must have learned from the best. "Sony"]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:03PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
When has a rumor about blu-ray come out of the HD DVD camp and proved false? Or proved true for that matter.

You may assert "the other guy did it, too" but find something here on Engadget HD to show it actually happened.]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:14PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
Come on. What makes this any more credible than any of the hundreds of such rumors posted on blu-ray.com, avs forum, high def digest or high def forums in the past 12 months?

]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:00PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
We'll see in a few weeks but I don't buy it. It makes for entertaining reading at blu oriented sites though.]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:01PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 1:02PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 3:50PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 1:09PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
Just in time for Christmas: this is the kind of thing long frowned on in politics -- the late smear. But I guess all's fair in a format war. We can't hold everyone to the high standards of politicians, can we?

Who was it last time, oh, right, another VP who was "accidentally" misquoted. Saying the same thing which didn't happen. How many times has this happened right here on Engadget HD? Why do you always fall for this?

Fear, uncertainty and doubt. And of course there's always someone to pump it up in the press. Stalin called them "useful idiots."]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:11PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
"expects the imminent arrival of a sub-$300 Blu-ray machine" Ha! Just like the imminent arrival of a Chinese player in late spring for HD DVD... It will take at least 9 months, not to mention no Profile 1.1?

"Blu-ray team is so determined to win that it will throw hundreds of millions of dollars of marketing support behind Blu-ray equipment if Warner gets on board."
And that is why Blu-ray players cost so much and will always cost so much...

Now here is the catch 22 with blu-ray...

Evidence 1:
"people close to the situation say the studio is waiting to see which group sells more of the new-fangled DVD players this holiday season. "Warner wants one of the two sides to make a commitment to getting this format into as many hands as possible..."

Evidence 2:
"The Blu-ray faction insists there is no burning reason for it to match HD DVD's prices. "We think Warner will respond to the fact that our greater number of titles gives us a greater likelihood of being the single standard..."

Warner's priority is to get as many players to the general public as possible... which is in line exactly with the HD DVD's strategy. Sony's Strategy is to get as many exclusive titles as possible.

Now, before you start hitting me over the head with PS3 is a blu-ray player and are greater in numbers than HD DVD... Think of the future. Blu-ray has had problems getting ramped up in product and will have continued problems in production as more lines are created, studios come on bored, etc. HD DVD will most likely not experience these problems as well as compatibility issues such as the whole profile wish wash.

Whoever wins this war (Blu-ray Vs HD DVD) will need to fight the 'real' war that is to come... DVD vs HDM vs Downloadable Media. This will come! The best product is the one that can ramp up fast enough and get cheaper and easier products with more function than current and even future ones.

In my personal opinion, HD DVD can get the production fast enough and cheap enough since this is a Priority NOW, not later, not to mention that Sony doesn't appear to be concerned with price right now. The frustration that customers WILL face with profile problems and DRM issues, yes the will happen and they do matter to people even if you don't care about them, will all pose a problem in the 'real' war. So if Blu-ray won, it might make HDM a niche market in the future with DVD/Downloadable Media king.

So to final up, if Warner's idea for HDM to be a mass market item, they would be better served with exclusivity to HD DVD. If the HDM market is to succeed after that, HD DVD would need to defeat Blu-ray as quick as possible...

Final Thought, Does that mean if HD DVD get warner Blu-ray doesn't give up and runs the format war to the ground forcing the repeat of SACD and DVD Audio? If warner goes Blu-ray, will the DVD / Downloadable media triumph over BD?

Side note... If BD wins, Microsoft will do everything in their power to stop them since they have been shafted more than once as well... (sometime microsoft is in line with the correct power...)]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:11PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
Right now, there is too much consumer risk for most people to adopt a format that might die soon, and too much confusion over which is better, the differences, etc etc.

If the studios decided to back 1 format, then they would increase overall sales DRAMATICALLY because many more people would be willing to adopt a new, better, no risk format.

I think that Blu-ray is in a better position currently to be the top pick. However, I don't think HD-DVD will go away entirely, at least not for a while. But the more decisively 1 format "wins," the more money studios will make because more consumers will jump into the game.

Since it's all about the money, it's just a matter of time. If HD-DVD can't double it's software sales by this Spring, the studios will pull their support.]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:12PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
The above quote could probably be spun by either side to say they have the upper-hand. Blu-Ray has more players (>2.7million). HD-DVD has more stand-alone players (>750k versus less than 200k).

The following is a huge, glaring error in the article:

"But that still pales in comparison to the estimated 4 million Blu-ray-equipped Sony PlayStation 3 consoles sold in the U.S."

Sony just announced over 2.7 million Blu-Ray players (about 2.5 million of which are Playstation 3's). Maybe PS3 will sell 1.5 million in December to get to 4 million by the end of the year, but I highly doubt it.]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:12PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
My take: Blu-ray is annoyed that HD DVD has closed the weekly numbers gap.]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:17PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 1:54PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Speculation means squat, Blu-Ray's Warner titles are *barely* outpacing HD-DVD's Warner titles, and that's with THREE TIMES as many Blu-Ray players out there (which looks terrible for the Blu side).
If anything, they'd want to switch to HD-DVD exclusivity if they're in the High-Def media market for the long haul. Plain and simple, a video game console is not going to give enough momentum to decide this format war, especially a third place console at that. Standalone player sales are our indicator, and the consumer's have already spoken (100 dollar HD-DVD players sell out in 2 days, and HD-DVD keeps getting closer and closer to that price point, something that wont happen with Blu-Ray for several years (if it lasts) ).]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:17PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 1:26PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
That is how Microsoft sold a ton of copies of Vista in the first couple weeks but hasn't sold many since then.

Otherwise, he could have meant worldwide.]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:17PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
All studios should sell on both formats, and let the consumer choose. Right now Warner is the only good guy. Don't screw it up.]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:23PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 1:35PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 8th 2007 8:02AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
They did it with the Xbox, losing money year after year (until this one). They have deep enough pockets to wait it out, and they'll do it because that's what shrewd investors do when they know they have a viable product. Sony is hemorrhaging money, and Warner switching to Blu is the last hope they have. Like mlody pointed out, it's somewhat like politics. You don't choose the representative from your respective parties for the general election in a vacuum, a big part of the decision is whether they can win in the general election. I believe Sony's oppressive DRM and proprietary priorities will end up in a failure of the format in the long run, and that's why I'm choosing a proven forum with a proven track record of lowering prices for consumers and focusing on competitive forces in the marketplace with DVD for my High-Def needs.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Blu Ray has more to lose than HD, and number of discs moved (not even sold, ie, BOGO offers) is the last strand of hope they have in this war. Paramount and Dreamworks saw that, and they saw HD DVDs solid plan and ability to conform to the existing market for cheap DVDs and DVD players while Sony doesn't even have a finished product they can start working on dropping prices for. Writing's on the wall, if you ask me, and it looks awfully Blu...]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:25PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
The consumer (whether "J6P" or Mr. Wallstreet) does not like risk. 2 formats = risk. People are not buying players or movies as often as the studios want.

The ONLY way to solve this problem is for the studios to back 1 format. By overwhelmingly choosing 1 side, the consumer risk (and the confusion--also a big factor right now) will disapear. This will lead to greater adoption of the HD format of choice, higher sales, and more money. That's all the companies care about.

It will be better for the consumer if 1 format wins. Less confusion, no risk, and as more people buy movies and hardware, prices will go down as they have for DVD.

Face it, if the war continues, both formats might die.]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:45PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:38PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
Every other week there either cutting the prices of there player or adding more free movies to there sale(lets call it version 1.2a).

I wanted to pick up a HD-DVD player but I might wait til Christmas seasons gets a lil closer.If the trend continues the players should be half there current price /w around 20 free movies.]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:47PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
Now, if/when all studios end up backing Blu Ray, what do you think Microsoft will do? Continue producing HD DVD players no one will buy, or as upscaling DVD players?
Just wondering about your logic...]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:40PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
"Is this the best Toshiba could come up with to keep their HD DVD next-generation high-definition DVD standard alive?"

"Movie studios seem to be running away from HD DVD faster than the speed of light as the competing Blu-ray technology."

"But even with the rival Blu-ray format now apparently looking at HD DVD in its rearview mirror..."

"Toshiba's HD DVD format, is desperately looking for a lifeline after a series of major disappointments."

I would personally take the information provided from this guy with a big grain of salt.

/Mike]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:41PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
Good job hunting.I think the format for either side takes a step back if they switch from neutral.]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:54PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Now that is too funny.
On the countrary, there would be a few disgruntled people for a few weeks, and then everyone would be happy 1 format prevailed and it would be much better for everyone.
They know it, retailers know it. you know it too, you're just in denial Kevin.]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:42PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
What can Microsoft Do? Hardcore support for Downloadable HD, Buy more exclusivity, more cheap tricks. There are things that we are not aware of as well that might affect this war. But saying that someone with BIG pockets can't do anything is just plain ignorant (especially if they have more money riding on HD DVD). Same goes for Sony...

The point is, we just don't know what will happen even if warner goes to a format. The current war is the problem... Microsoft/Toshiba will heavily subsidize HD DVD heavily and Sony will subsidize Blu-ray heavily. Either format needs to get out quickly of this war, now. This will be hard unless either Sony or Microsoft/Toshiba throw in the towel. Unless all studios go exclusive which won't happen with HD DVD until at least a year from now! While Sony is also too damn stubborn to release on HD DVD unless BD is also truely dead.

The important part is... whoever wins now should be the strongest to fight against the bigger enemies (DVD and Downloadable HD)... Toshiba might spur an anti-BD campaign with upscaling DVDs (since they still are the major player there...) and microsoft could do a major backing of Downloadable HD...

Sony would not have much pull later on with either DVD or Downloadable HD... So their only way to fight back is to keep HD DVD bogged down in the current format war.]]>Dec 7th 2007 2:33PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
As of this moment, the effective installed base is about 1M - 750K in favor of blu-ray (counting the 2.4 million PS3s as 600K standalone-equivalent players and assuming the claim 400K BD players claim is accurate). So you should expect a normal week to be about 4-3, which the last week in November was (58:42).]]>Dec 7th 2007 2:19PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
I find it funny that they don't have a HD DVD BOGO?!?! I mean if they wanted to dump one soon, wouldn't you start to dump stock now? Say with a BOGO Sale?]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:54PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
Your already up to 12 now and it's still considered a sale.

I mean its to the point where your getting your player for free and are now only paying for disc sales.

So it makes you wonder how high of a premium is Toshiba marketing discs for because they surely can't turn a profit selling free players.]]>Dec 7th 2007 2:11PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 1:56PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/26/sony-sells-substantial-stake-to-dubai-investment-firm/

]]>Dec 7th 2007 1:58PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 3:43PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/26/sony-sells-substantial-stake-to-dubai-investment-firm/"

That maybe one of the funniest freaking things I've ever read in my life. Bravo!!]]>Dec 7th 2007 4:09PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/26/sony-sells-substantial-stake-to-dubai-investment-firm/"

That maybe one of the funniest freaking things I've ever read in my life. Bravo!!]]>Dec 7th 2007 4:09PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 5:38PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 2:02PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/
Now I'm somewhat shielded by the war with having the intention of buying a dual format player as long as some studios remain exclusive :( as some may say that many people don't have the money to buy 2 players. Please, how much money do most people spend on their TV, or replacement/secondary players, or movie libraries, or gaming systems every 2 years, or ......I will bet most people who decide to get into this can afford another player in a year or two once prices come down. So why not just buy one now that you like and not worry about it. ]]>Dec 7th 2007 2:17PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 4:31PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/They don't sell as well because more people have PS3s, that's all.

Yes, that's a measure of how many Blu-Ray players there are, but not a measure of what format the consumer would choose if the only factor was a choice between a red disc or a blue disc.

And that is why Blu-Ray cannot survive, because the only real player that counts is the PS3, and it alone cannot make the format succeed mass market and long term. Whether HD DVD survives either is another matter.


As for the topic at hand though. No Warner will not go Blu-Ray. They will stay neutral for 2008 in my opinion. It would not be in their interest to pick a format backed only really by one player especially when HD DVD players are increasing in numbers all the time. To cut off HD DVD would be madness.

Personally I can't see there ever being a "winner" in this war. The losers are the consumers though who will either have to put up with the war indefinitely or find both formats ultimately fail. If it continues, they'll never reach mass market and will stay at a high price, so the consumer loses there too.]]>Dec 10th 2007 6:12AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 2:11PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-could-join-blu-ray/Dec 7th 2007 2:25PM