Nielsen VideoScan High-Def market share for week ending December 2nd, 2007
by Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Dec 7th 2007 at 6:30PM
Just when Blu-ray fans thought they'd run away with it, the red camp strikes back with a 58/42 (1.38:1) split according to the Nielsen VideoScan numbers courtesy of Home Media magazine. The fun part is trying to figure out what everyone bought. Looking at the top ten list, we can only assume that all those new HD-A2 owners have finally started buying movies -- either that or everyone went out and bought a second copy of Planet Earth. The most interesting thing, is that even though HD DVD almost sold as many titles as Blu-ray, only three made the top ten, and none of them were released the same week. This tells us that a lot of people bought a wide array of titles, which is good news for red. This isn't the best they've done since we've been tracking, in fact when Transformers was released it was 51/49. We can't wait to check out the numbers next week, to see if red's new legs can hold up against the latest installment of Pirates.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
EQC @ Dec 7th 2007 6:37PM
Congrats to HD-DVD for making a stronger showing (percentage-wise) this week. Anybody know why Planet Earth shot up the ratings so high this week? Major advertisements or an Oprah special? Or were sales of other disks just down?
____________________
On a different note, here's a rant:
____________________
I haven't bought into either format...and illogical arguments on both sides tend to annoy me...but the WalMart argument EVERY week is getting really old. So, let's get it out of the way now:
HDDVDfan: ZOMG! Did you guys know these results don't include WalMart!!!??
Any1: Yes. These stats have been posted every week for months, and they've never included WalMart.
HDDVDfan: These results mean nothing without WalMart!
Any1: Ummm...that's how statistics work. Like TV-ratings are only based on a small percentage of households. But, they represent a decent "average," so results are pretty accurate.
HDDVDfan: But Walmart has to be like 50% of sales, so the error must be 50%!!! These results mean nothing!!!! HDDVD is probably winning! I know tons of people who buy from WalMart!
Any1: OK. WalMart sells both formats. So, leaving them out removes sales from both sides. Their sales of video disks are generally ranked 3rd behind 2 retailers that are included in these statistics, so they aren't selling 50% of disks. And STATISTICS DON'T WORK LIKE THAT! Surveys with sample sizes of less than 1% can end up with very small margins for error. Unless you have some advanced degree in statistics, you should probably stop claiming you know more about statistics than a company (Nielsen) whose whole job is to study statistics.
HDDVDfan: Well, then why did all those BluRay morons say that the week when Amazon sold more HDDVD's than BluRay meant nothing? I mean, if leaving out WalMart is OK, then why can't we just consider Amazon?!?
Any1: Well, considering 1 retailer is a lot different than leaving one retailer out. Statistically speaking, a sample size of 1 is basically worthless for drawing any broad conclusions. A sample size of 5 retailers out of even 20 major retailers can still come up with good results.
BluRayFan: Amazon was having a huge HDDVD sale during that time when they sold more HDDVD's than BluRays.
HDDVDfan: Well, where I live, there are no BestBuy's or Circuit City's...only WalMart. So, leaving out WalMart leaves out a huge chunk of the country! These results mean nothing! I know tons of people who only shop at WalMart!
Any1: Even still, Walmart is one of many nation-wide retailers, and many retailers are included in these statistics. And WalMart does not sell the majority of HD-media. You are right that without including *every* retailer on the planet, these results aren't 100% accurate...but Nielsen is a freaking ratings company. If they didn't have confidence in these results, they'd be risking their reputation by reporting them. Again, they know more about statistics than you do...please admit that.
HDDVDfan: ZOMG! These results mean nothing without WalMart! HDDVD is probably winning!
Any1: I give up.
HDDVDfan: HDDVD FTW!
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wysiwyg @ Dec 7th 2007 6:51PM
What are you getting at? That was waste of space to duplicate someone's rant.
Spiza @ Dec 7th 2007 7:46PM
@ECQ
You have it backwards for this week, its blu-ray that would complain about not counting Wal-Mart this week with the 10 free blu-ray movie with a PS3 deal. HD DVD will be back next week due to the HD DVD player with free discs this week. However, for those that don't know, Amazon has a much better deal up with more 2 more free movies, and the A3 is cheaper. With these sales, I might just buy one.
HDpurist @ Dec 7th 2007 6:42PM
The HD-DVD farm should just quit! Everyone wants only 1 HDM and BD is clearly the dominant format, so why does the HD-DVD farm continue to fight this war? The HD-DVD farm is the one to blame for this silly waste of time for us consumers. Hence, it is obvious that the HD-DVD supporters are the biggest suckers to ever grace the history of video media...
wysiwyg @ Dec 7th 2007 6:54PM
BDA is the one fueling the war with BOGOs. HD DVD is the approved format of DVD forum, blu-ray is not. Planet Earth HD DVD was never part of any promotional deal like BOGO yet it does so well although it's been out very very long ago. BDA is truly the one forcefully fudging the numbers with the claimed 2.7M blu-ray players when I don't even use my PS3 for any movies.
Coolone3000 @ Dec 7th 2007 7:00PM
@HDpurist
Hmmmm since HD-DVD is the true successor to DVD i don't really see why you think its HD-DVDs fault. I can see a Sony exec sitting in his office wondering how to get more money, looking at how huge DVD's have become and knowing that they should capitalize on the next big thing. Sony obviously has a clever marketing strategy by putting Blu-Ray in the PS3 giving them the obvious edge. But since you seem to have the clear voice of every consumer out there, then whey is roughly 40% of the high def crowd on the HD-DVD side? I think your assumption is extremely premature and you're obviously reverting to a 3 year old because we(HD-DVD) gained a bit of market share. I have no idea how things will turn out in the end or if this trend will continue, but at least I'm not blurting out assumptions and am just stating the facts.
Mike @ Dec 7th 2007 8:18PM
Consumers want cheap players. The 1st to $50 wins.
HD4ME @ Dec 7th 2007 10:47PM
@HD Purist
You need to read this as well!!
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07314/832733-96.stm?cmpid=business.xml
EQC @ Dec 7th 2007 7:01PM
that was my rant...I see basically that same argument here every week. It is annoying that every week 17 people bring up how Walmart isn't included (as though it's news) and declare that, therefore, the Nielsen ratings are meaningless. The argument is stupid because (a) it is old news, and (b) statistics, as I had "Any1" point out, work just fine even when you leave out a few people's favorite retailer.
Yes, I wasted space in typing that there....but if it at least prevents commenters from repeatedly bringing up and debating the WalMart issue below, then I saved space in the end.
Nfinity @ Dec 7th 2007 6:50PM
Again, as Blu-Ray BOGOs are fading and there isn't 5 blockbuster titles on sale, HD DVD starts catching up. The showing of HD DVD players is still not in full effect, but when that happens it will be even more pronounced.
HDpurist @ Dec 8th 2007 2:28PM
wysiwyg,
Planet Earth on BD has NEVER been part of BOGO either. Both BD and HD-DVd versions of PE were released at the exact same time.
Your statements are completely false, clean your smokey eyes.
Ben @ Dec 7th 2007 6:54PM
I'll take a $99 player over a $399 player ANY day of the week.
HDpurist @ Dec 7th 2007 6:57PM
Ironic thing is, HD-DVD had 1 full year head start over BD. Yet, BD has been the dominate format and continuing, since it was released. HD-DVD fanbois have got to quit doing drugs and stop supporting the flop format so that EVERYONE can enjoy all HDM content from 1 format.
Coolone3000 @ Dec 7th 2007 7:04PM
First HD-DVD in U.S. April 18, 2006
First Blu-Ray in U.S. June 20, 2006
Straight from wikipedia
Matthew Berg @ Dec 8th 2007 4:34PM
Ironic thing is, HD-DVD had 1 full year head start over BD.
The first HD-DVD player hit the market on 2006-04-18; the first Blu-ray player was released on 2006-06-25. Last I checked two months is not "a full year".
Matthew Berg @ Dec 8th 2007 4:38PM
The first HD-DVD player hit the market on 2006-04-18; the first
Blu-ray player was released on 2006-06-25. Last I checked two months is not "a full year".
dferg80 @ Dec 7th 2007 6:58PM
If you look at this link, you can see the top 5 for each side.
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom120907/index.php
Blu
1.) Live Free or Die Hard
2.) Spider-Man 3
3.) Ratatouille
4.) Planet Earth
5.) 300
HD
1.) Planet Earth
2.) Transformes
3.) Shrek the Third
4.) Top Gun
5.) Star Trek: The Original series
Looks like two very different demographics. Three of the top five for HD-DVD look to appeal to an older audience. Four of the top five Blu-Ray look to appeal to a younger audience. Blu-Ray seems to be pretty in-line with PS3's main demographic. I'm not sure how Hairspray got in there at number 10 overall though.
Kevin Murphy @ Dec 7th 2007 11:44PM
"Four of the top five Blu-Ray look to appeal to a younger audience. Blu-Ray seems to be pretty in-line with PS3's main demographic."
Guess which format does better with women....
h0mi @ Dec 7th 2007 6:58PM
The big HD-DVD release that week was Star Trek which was $140+ ...
Surprise showing for Planet Earth. There might've been a discount (for both formats?) on Amazon.
Silverfrog @ Dec 14th 2007 1:37PM
Saying things like "HD-DVD is the true successor to DVD" makes you look like a fanboy. The DVD forum is as much of an authority as the Blu Ray forum is. And, since neither format has died yet, no one knows which one will be the true successor.
h0mi @ Dec 7th 2007 7:03PM
Easier explanation... those are newer releases of top titles that are exclusive (Hairspray is an exclusive for some period of time) to either format.
Star trek, Hairspray, Shrek, Rat and spiderman were all released in the last month. Top gun and xformers are 2 months old. Surprised to see 300-BD still has massive legs
dferg80 @ Dec 7th 2007 7:05PM
@ HDpurist
"Ironic thing is, HD-DVD had 1 full year head start over BD."
Then I suppose Blu-Ray is to blame for the format war since HD-DVD was already on the market for a full year before BD came and muddied the waters?
HDpurist @ Dec 7th 2007 7:07PM
@Ben, obviously you're buying the $99 A2 to watch upscaled DVD and the odd HD-DVD...considering HD-DVD titles have utterly sucked. You do have the odd HD-DVD diamond in the rough, like Babe. Too bad Universal Music won't be releasing their latest HTM reference Blu-ray disc "Elton 60 - Live at Madison Square Garden" onto HDDVD. This must be the start of Unversal jumping ship to BD...d'oh!
Coolone3000 @ Dec 7th 2007 7:11PM
@HDpurist
How would you know what HD-DVDs suck, you've never bought one lol and you give a crap about Elton 60??
Greg @ Dec 7th 2007 7:19PM
Also shows something clear to studios.
HD DVD buyers aren't the kind that buy the new releases unless it's bang/boom stuff (cf Transformers)...
New releases of the week for Blu Ray - "I know who killed me" Lindsay Lohan - lol / Paprika & Jin Roh (Aniume - niche market) - Combined Box office : $8M
New film releases of the week for HD DVD: Mr Bean's Holidays (Day & Date), Hot Rod (Day & Date), Old School, Anchorman.
Combined BO: $180M
You forgot to specify that little tidbit of info in your blurb Ben ;)
2 Day & Date releases, and overall more than $150M of box office, and not one in the top ten.
Studios should -love- that :)
Without a big Bogo going on for Blu Ray, or anything special for that matter, and with those 10 (now 12 !! lmao) free HD dvds offered all over for HD DVD, losing by 58-42 (pretty much a 60-40) is pretty sad actually. But we'll talk again next week ;)
dferg80 @ Dec 7th 2007 7:27PM
Don't forget to factor in that the PS3 just came out with a couple of games to play. Since the game machine now has games to play people may buy games instead of movies.
Spiza @ Dec 7th 2007 7:44PM
I think this is great. This just means both sides will really heat it up for next year. That means cheaper players and more BOGOs from both sides. I bet movie prices fall as well.
BBG @ Dec 7th 2007 7:54PM
Let's just all hope that Warner Brothers does indeed go Blu-ray exclusive like it appears will be the case very soon.
That will kill off the confusion that HD DVD has created.
Nfinity @ Dec 7th 2007 8:13PM
So let me get this straight.. HD DVD was first to the market, has finalized specifications, all players compatible, backwards compatibility and DVD/HD DVD combo available, interactive features, online features and is cheap and Blu-Ray has horrific Profiles, huge disparity in player capabilities that completely screw up any attempts of more complex titles, uses BD-J a Java layer that requires huge processing power (thus PS3 being the only player that can play these features normally) and uses a GAME CONSOLE to push a MOVIE format, yet you say HD DVD caused a confusion?
L-O-fucking-L!
Nfinity @ Dec 7th 2007 8:20PM
Here.. you may want to read this:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/the-state-of-hd-dvd/the-state-of-hd-dvd-330684.php
and this:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07314/832733-96.stm?cmpid=business.xml
Maybe it will clear out a few things for you.
Kiko @ Dec 7th 2007 7:58PM
@Coolone3000
HD DVD is the successor of DVD only because Toshiba promised that it would be out way before Blu-ray ! They chosed this format instead of Sony's one, and gave it the name of HD DVD to remain in the spirit of DVD... But when Sony saw that HD DVD was delayed again and again, they kept on working on their technology ! And in final, HD DVD came out only some months before Blu-Ray !
That's the main reason why HD DVD became the successor of DVD, not because it was better or what so ever... only for a matter of dates, wich have been delayed at the end ! So if the DVD association knew this, they probably wouldn't have chosen it as quick as that...
Link for more: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/08/29/origins-of-the-blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-war/
Kevin Murphy @ Dec 7th 2007 11:52PM
If blu-ray hadn't been talking about caddies and costly disc fabs, and had a working spec, back before the DVD Forum started down the HD DVD road, we would all be happy blu-ray users today.
Here's a BBC article from back when they were still voting at the DVD Forum -- note the disc in the picture: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1829241.stm
Kevin Murphy @ Dec 7th 2007 11:41PM
But wait ... wasn't it "the first under $200 wins" just a few short months ago?
The war will go on until studio exclusives end. Which is chicken and which is egg is all that is left to decide. If everyone went neutral today, the consumer would win. Seems a good goal, don't you think?
Saul @ Dec 7th 2007 10:22PM
in fact when Transformers was released it was 55/45.
Check your facts, dude. It was 51/49. Ben, it's amusing just how ridiculously ofter you're flat out wrong.
Coolone3000 @ Dec 7th 2007 9:43PM
@Kiko
I don't know where your getting this info but i've never seen anything about a time line promise from HD-DVD, so until you can prove it, I'll forget you said it. HD-DVD is the successor cause it came from the DVD forum.....thats why its the true successor, the name of the format is because of that reason. I don't think sony gave a damn about what HD-DVD was doing, as long as Sony was going to profit from whatever technology was put out. The reason there are 2 formats is strictly because of the BDA, there would have been only one if BDA would have just played nice and met some reasonable demands, this quote says that:
"At the end of June 2005, Sun announced that the Blu-ray Association had chosen the Java-based BD-J interactivity layer instead of Microsoft's HDi. This was based on a BDA board vote favouring BD-J 10 to 4, despite a technical committee previously favouring HDi by a vote of 7 to 5" From Wikipedia
and don't even get me started on delays, even if HD-DVD was delayed till April 06, at least they came out with a finished standard, Blu-Ray couldn't even manage that.
Whocareswhoiam @ Dec 7th 2007 9:48PM
@ Kiko
That is why HD-DVD is a finilized spec yet blu-ray has yet to offer the same options that the cheapest HD-DVD player comes standard with. Hmm..... Sounds like Sony should have kept thiers in the oven for a little longer before pulling it. That is like Sony producing a car that doesnt have a heater or A/C, because that is optional, and bringing it to market when there is already a car that offers that in thier standard package.
I own both products, but I am kinda steamed that I am going to have to upgrade my BD player to get what I got for $180 with HD-DVD.
Xyzzy @ Dec 7th 2007 10:04PM
I've seen many people point out that 300 sells better on BD, and that's why Warner will go BD exclusive and why BD is better than HD DVD, since the title is available on both formats.
What they're failing to realize is that Toshiba is giving away 300 FREE IN THE BOX. That doesn't count in the weekly sales (because it's bundled - just like the 5 free mail-in movies offered by both sides), but is a major reason why 300 does so well on BD and not HD DVD.
Planet Earth has always been a big seller on Amazon -- surprising that it did THAT well though.
HD4ME @ Dec 7th 2007 10:18PM
Maybe Planet Earth is doing so well on HD DVD because it's a logical choice for new people to the market, eg 90,000 new A2 owners
Andy @ Dec 7th 2007 10:24PM
where is the dude who always points out that the hd-a2 can only do 1080i and how that it's not a true HD player because only 1080p is true HD? I noticed this week that pirates 3: at worlds end, or what ever it's called is not 1080p. It's 1080i.
BBG @ Dec 7th 2007 11:06PM
... BTW, Pirates is 1080p ... the 1080i part was a misprint ... yes it happens ... it will still own HD DVD ... and frankly even if it was only 1080i it would still own HD DVD.
I think HD DVD supporters shouldn't be allowed to post anything on the internet until their format actually wins a week ... ANY week ... who's with me? :P
MI @ Dec 8th 2007 12:49AM
"@HD Purist
You need to read this as well!!
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07314/832733-96.stm?cmpid=business.xml"
Are you kidding? The extent of this persons ignorance sets a new low in this conversation. A few early BD releases were poorly done, so they say "at launch Blu-ray's picture quality was horrible"!?!? Yea, that makes sense. At launch TV looked pretty bad, guess I'll throw out my 1080p set just to spite them.
Then she moves on to the 'its a better format because Paramount (and dreamworks, like they're a different shop or something) dumped blu-ray'. Yawn, lets look at the FACTS again. Paramount was selling substantially more blu-ray discs when Toshiba or Microsoft gave them a $100 million bribe to stop making blu-ray; because it was the ONLY WAY HDVD was going to survive.
Then the best argument a mediocre stopgap format: "It's good enough". Would you buy a car, or anything else if the salesperson told you it was good enough!?!?! Good enough for what? As I've said before, when CD came out we thought it was huge, when DVD came out, it was immense. Now we carry more storage than that on a key chain. A little future proofing might be better than something that's 'good enough'.
I encourage every person to listen to the arguments, HDVD certainly hit the ground running everything they offer was there at the start. Evey argument you hear will be based on that fact, and the claim that it's good enough. Blu-Ray is as good now, and has the future proofing to still be a viable format in another 10 years.
BBG @ Dec 7th 2007 11:04PM
All Blu-ray players are 1080p ... HD DVD is the one causing confusion by offering cheap (in quality and price) 1080i players that will confuse users and frankly disappoint them when they find out after the fact that they only have 1080i when they're tv can do 1080p.
This is all besides the fact. Blu-ray can simply hold more data, and HD DVD has been holding back Hi Def with their limited capacity.
Even aside from that, just look at the sales numbers ... they speak for themselves ... you can try and rationalize why HD DVD continues to lose ... but it doesn't change the fact that they are ... so they should do the polite thing ... say, good job Blu-ray and help support the superior format ... it's best for HD ... and best for us.
Kevin Murphy @ Dec 8th 2007 12:02AM
To they guy who did the opening rant: this is mine.
IQ50BDfan: Ours all do 1080P (!!!!) and your's don't. That makes us better!!!!!
TechGuy: It's all the same thing. All that is required is that the DVD player deliver all the data to the TV in the available time. If the TV set works right, it doesn't matter how. 1080p can deliver the data 2 1/2 times; 1080p only 1 1/4 times. SInce both those nubmers are over 1, it doesn't matter at all.
IQ50BDFan: But... These dials go to 11 !!!!! They must be better. Yours only go to 10 !!!!
TechGuy: "zzzzzzzzzzz"
Kevin Murphy @ Dec 8th 2007 12:03AM
that's _1080i_ 1 1/4 times. drat.
Coolone3000 @ Dec 7th 2007 11:10PM
@BBG
Do all you Blu-Ray supporters ride the short bus together?? Who says they are cheap in quality?? Has there ever been anything to prov that or are you just pissed that we have a cheaper player? Oh and about all those pissed people that will find out about their 1080i HD-DVD player, well what about all those pissed people that will have to completely re-purchase their Blu-Ray player because it can't utilize all those fancy non-existant special features that Blu-Ray might have?
BBG @ Dec 7th 2007 11:14PM
It's called a firmware update buddy ... look into it ... software update and your hardware is good to go. In the mean time, Blu-ray people can watch more of the movies they want to cause more of the studios support Blu-ray ...
I really can't wait for Warner Bros. to switch to Blu-ray only ... and then watch and see how you rationalize how HD DVD still has a chance.
Nfinity @ Dec 7th 2007 11:31PM
"It's called a firmware update buddy ... look into it ... software update and your hardware is good to go. "
Hahaha .. if you actually knew something you would understand that firmware updates can't change the physical shortcomings of the format..In order for Blu-Ray to actually have all of the interactivity and video capability + online features players need to have HARDWARE ADDITIONS!
But it's quite alright, because I'm pretty sure you were refering to PS3, which is actually the start and end of Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray doesn't exist without PS3 we all know that and the more PS3 goes into the abyss, the faster will people realize how much Blu-ray IS UMD.
For Warner to go Blu-ray, their management absolutely has to be smoking some heavy drugs as it is an absolute facts that despite higher numbers of sold units they actually made equal or less money do to production costs and other factors I won't go into here.
Warner IS HD DVD. They helped build it, they molded it, they are completely using it as we can obviously see much better releases of the same movies on HD DVD if they ever get released on Blu-Ray. The only reason they went Blu-Ray to begin with was because of uncertainty whether or not PS3 could win the war in a blitz. Obviously this did not happen and HD DVD base is ramping up pretty significantly.
Rumours about Warner going Blu-Ray are absolutely and laughably created by the BD crowd.
All i have to say be prepared to hear that Warner goes back to HD DVD exclusively because I'm afraid that if you continue living in denial you don't do something bad to yourself.
zargon @ Dec 8th 2007 9:22AM
@BBG
I am sorry, but you are a half informed, blind sheep blu-ray fanboy that bought into all the FUD.
You like and possibly have Blu-ray, thats cool, we don't care. But do some research and thinking on you own instead of being told what to think and stop propetuating the problem by spreading the FUD.
Joe @ Dec 7th 2007 11:19PM
do these numbers get posted every week so fanboys can come on here to have a pissing match or what?
and i think it'd be better to see the total number of movies sold. because i bet its a LOT less than usual. its after the big black friday sales, almost no good movies on either format were released. its no wonder sales were pretty even. and for everyone saying its good for hd dvd. how is getting beaten good? wtf are people smoking.
losing is bad. if i were an hd dvd fanboy i'd be worried about figuring out how to double my movie sales, not bitch because blu-ray doesn't have extra's. who the hell even watches extra's.
get over yourselves fanboys.
BBG @ Dec 7th 2007 11:45PM
So when you speak of physical shortcomings are you referring to the lack of storage capacity on HD DVD ... the fact that the discs hold less data ... maybe the fact the no one wants to make HD DVD players other then Toshiba cause there is no profit in it for them ... hmm lemme think ...
oh wait ... maybe you're talking about how Blu-ray can hold more data ... and that lots of hi-end electronics companies are making Blu-ray players ...
As for Warner Bros ... the same titles have been released on BOTH formats ... and they have ALWAYS sold more on Blu-ray ... look at the stats ... i'm sure you'll try to explain how stats don't mean anything ... but that's ok ... i understand your frustrating ...
300 = Hi Def movie of the year ... it came out for both Blu-ray and HD DVD ... and yet it wins for Blu-ray ... it must be a conspiracy right!
Of the top 20 hi def movies ... 18 are Blu-ray ... again! conspiracy! ... no wait ... that's a statistic ... it can't mean anything!! Stats lies! Numbers lie! They're all out to get me! :P