http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/ Engadget HD Comments for 10 reasons why HD DVD or Blu-ray is here to stay http://www.engadgethd.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadgethd.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Dec 4th 2007 11:59AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Dec 4th 2007 12:02PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
If you want it so badly, you write it.
...Naw, you mess that up, too, and scare "J6P" in to buying Red.]]>Dec 4th 2007 8:36PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
And don't want to be limited to what movies/shows I can watch based on some HD provider. Frig that.]]>Dec 4th 2007 12:00PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Dec 4th 2007 12:18PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Definitly the format which will be here 25 years.

Go!Blu Wuhu!]]>Dec 4th 2007 12:10PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Dec 4th 2007 12:12PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Dec 4th 2007 12:25PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Dec 4th 2007 12:49PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Dec 4th 2007 12:27PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Dec 4th 2007 1:17PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
PIRATE!]]>Dec 4th 2007 12:31PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Blu-ray as the game console format may also survive (just like UMD will for PSP), what else are they going to put their console games out on for this version of the Playstation?]]>Dec 4th 2007 12:40PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
1. They offer the best picture and sound quality

Which goes completely unnoticed by the 99% of people who are still listening through their TV speakers or crappy HTIB, and watching their TVs with the Torch Mode on. These people still buy SD-DVDs, millions of them.

2. You own the disc, no one can expire it or take it away

...or lose it, or scratch it, or have it plain not work due to bad firmware, or...wait a minute.

3. Discs still cost less per GB than a Hard Disc

barely, and are write once. This will change eventually, and the first format to offer a $100 burner and $1 20GB disc may help determine the war.

4. Discs don't 'just' go bad and cause you to lose your movies

and you can't back them up either (slysoft, I know).

5. Discs are portable and can be shared with friends

I'll be on the bit-torrents if anyone needs me.

6. Eventually HDM players will cost less than upconverting DVD players

At which point, the upconverting players will be given away with a purchase of 10 gallons or more, and people will still not want to pay more for HD-Disc players.

7. Xbox Live Marketplace HD expires and is locked to the device

The same way that all online music WAS drm-ed, and now is not. Give it time.

8. HD VOD is limited in selection and availability

And disc is not?? Check your netflix queue, mine is looking pretty SD only.

9. Even when VUDU gets HD, it costs too much, and the content is locked on the box

The VUDU is a strawman. Crap product. Now, if they were giving the box away (which someone will eventually), you'd sing a different tune.

10. HD Movie channels crop, compress, and offer worse audio than DVD

I wonder which is greater, the number of people with HD-Disc players, or the number of people subscribing to HD through their cable companies. People don't care, it's good enough.

Marshall
-------------
The Real HT Info Podcast
]]>Dec 4th 2007 12:42PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Most do think HBO etc is "good enough", but luckily there are other reasons why they would choose to go HDM.]]>Dec 4th 2007 12:52PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
I try to Netflix as much as I can. I'll only buy if Netflix doesn't get it. I can't get VoD.]]>Dec 4th 2007 1:54PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
I was more making the comment that you can live in paranoia about your movies going away (with the google video fiasco, I know this happens), but, odds are, you or your kids losing/mishandling you discs will be the biggest cause of your physical media not working.

But yes, you make a good point that Netflix solves that problem pronto. It's a point that I like to make on my show as well: why pay $20,000 for a 2,000 movie collection that you have to store and move, when you can just pay $15/month, have a 75,000 movie collection, and have it be someone else's problem if the disc is scratched.

Marshall
----------
The Real HT Info Podcast ]]>Dec 4th 2007 2:02PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
There are many movies that I have no need to see again. For every "Blade Runner" there is a "Oceans 12" -- something you kinda want to see but have no need to own. For those something like StarzHD, Netflix, PPV, or even VoD is just fine.

Sure, this happened with DVD, and as the price came down fewer cared they were spending $4.99 to buy "Transporter 2", but with the HDM products just launching, the format war's uncertainty, and the widespread availability of cheaper "rental" sources -- the effect will be more pronounced.

The war needs to end soon. Since it seems unlikely that either format will die soon, and a unified format seems technically difficult now, it falls on the studios to end the war and publish on both formats. Even Sony. They may have to anyway if the Euro anti-trust inquiry requires it, but it is in everyone's interest to end the war, now that it cannot be won.

And if the more expensive players are so darn better, then they should have no worry about people choosing "wrong."

End the war, or both lose.]]>Dec 4th 2007 12:48PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
A 50GB Blu-ray movie costs AT MINIMUM $20. That's $0.40/GB.

A blank recordable 25GB BD disc costs about $10. Again, that's $0.40/GB

So, no, HDD do NOT cost more than HDM. Maybe someday, but not now.]]>Dec 4th 2007 12:56PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Personally, I'd put more faith in a disc than a hard drive. I've had more hard drives fail than DVDs, CDs or what not - both fail in low numbers. But the loss of a hard drive can lose many dozens, hundreds or thousands of movies, the loss of a purchased optical disc means losing one movie.

I'd also say that if it's on a hard drive, it has to be copied to a second drive too, so double your cost figure for the hard drive or don't count on all your files being there. I really can't sympathize with those that say they lost years of their data due to a hard drive crash. People that know they should back up but don't don't deserve sympathy.]]>Dec 4th 2007 2:27PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
I live in a fairly affluent area of Los Angeles. Most of my friends have nice HD tv's NOT ONE has or cares about HD-DVD or Blu-ray.

The convenience of DVR is just too great. Like the above poster said, most people, even with HD-TV's still listen with the crappy TV speakers. (not me of course)]]>Dec 4th 2007 1:00PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
I'm a neighbor and I have HD DVD, and might get a dual-format player next year. But yeah, a DVR is pretty darn convenient.

I suspect part of the problem you see is that most people don't want a complicated TV set-up, and TV, DVR & DVD are about their limit. ]]>Dec 4th 2007 1:08PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
I'll get one of these fancy players when it cost less than a six pack of beer.

I get a great picture on my 6yr old 50in project screen tv while watching nascar and the baseball game.

I don't rent or buy movies much so how would this benefit me?
]]>Dec 4th 2007 1:02PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Dec 5th 2007 10:16AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
I cannot comment on cable systems, having been on satellite since 1994, and while there were issues with DirecTV HD wihen they had bandwidth issues, the new satellite plus mpeg4 encoding make stations like StarzHD, HDNetMovies or MGMHD look golden. As always it's the transfer, and some stations crop (HBO), and some stations are unwatchable (TNT, TBS), but the best is really pretty darn good.

With pre-recorded material compression can be pretty good, and it's artful of you to point out compression on sat&cable while ignoring the fact that HDM are, too.]]>Dec 4th 2007 1:03PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Some of your comments don't even deserve a response, but I'll bite.

Neither HD DVD or Blu-ray discs cost $20, sure burnable ones might, but we're talking mass production here.

Everyone who knows anything about digital video knows it's compressed. When someone says it's compressed that means there are compression artifacts.

As for cable and satellite compression. I have both FIOS and DirecTV and I can tell you that the PQ on HBO/Starz etc is crap. Not that long ago I recorded the Illusionist from Starz. I must've checked to make sure it was HD 10 times, it looked so bad. When the movie was over I looked at the size on my S3 and it was 5GB! A 1 hour Heroes episode is bigger than that, and my NBC affiliate steals a lot of bits for their weather channel.

Sure, I've seen a few movies that look good, but none that look and sound as good as Blu-ray or HD DVD. In fact of all the movies channels, I'd say that HD.net Movies consistently has the bets quality.]]>Dec 4th 2007 1:16PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Even if you add the $5 PPV cost, it is still cheaper, today, to store on HDD than BD. Especially as it does not take up 50GB.

20GB file on HDD = $5 (500GB drive=$125 Q1 at Fry's). $5 PPV fee. Total: $10

20GB file on BD = $10 (lowest Amazon (3rd party) 25GB BD blank) $5 PPV fee. Total: $15

Purchased HDDVD or BD. $20 minumum

Even if you assert that the file is 50GB, it is still under $20 total on HD, and the BD blank is now $30.

--

The Illusionist on Starz was not marked as HD in the guide, nor did it appear to be. If it was intended to be HD, then it was a rather poor transfer. Considering the other films I have seen on StarzHD or MGM channel it was not the channel that was the problem, nor the encoding.

As far as bit rate is concerned, you cannot measure quality by bitrate. It is -- by far -- too simplistic a measure of what is going on. But again, the Illusionist was a particularly poor choice and I do not believe it was HD.

Do they look as good as Blu-ray or HD DVD? I've seen a few that do, most don't. And the sound is at best DD 5.1. But it is quite a bit better than DVD and for folks with average HDTVs it's just dandy.

Remember, you are talking market here, not what is "best."]]>Dec 4th 2007 2:23PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Original Aspect Ratio, Unedited, and Commercial Free.

And of course the best audio possible.

DVR what you want for viewing when you want]]>Dec 4th 2007 1:17PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Dec 4th 2007 1:18PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Otherwise a good point, but HDNet still isn't what I want to see, when I want to see it, all the time. Also, you can't get it on cable, which alienates a good majority of consumers who buy an HDTV because they think they have to for the Digital Transition and are perfectly happy paying more than they have to for bundled cable and internet service because they want less bills. ]]>Dec 4th 2007 5:21PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
This list seemed to be geared towards the benefits to the consumer, not the benefits to the producer of the content. So I would assume that you feel that a consumer can buy more optical storage for less than its HDD counterpart.

If the list is supposed to to argue why HD disc media is beneficial to the consumer then Kevin has a valid point in quoting the $20 blank discs. As a consumer I don't care how much a blank disc costs to make, I care about how much I can buy it for.

If you were indeed refering to the benefit to the producer, then you might want to make this clear. Also, if this is the case, do you really think that is a valid reason why HD discs are here to stay?

]]>Dec 4th 2007 1:50PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Therefor, you don't pay for the disc per say, you pay for the movie.

It is nearly impossible to break out the actual cost to consumers of the disc to consumers, but if you did, I doubt many would argue that $20 of the $30 they spent on Transformers was for the disc and $10 was for the movie.]]>Dec 4th 2007 1:53PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/

I just don't see how this is one of the '10 reasons why HD DVD or Blu-ray are here to stay'
]]>Dec 4th 2007 2:26PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
I really don't care about the masses, LD had a smaller market and it was around for 20 years, and had a great selection of titles. But for argument sake, if your points about HBO etc were correct than everyone would just watch SD HBO and not buy DVDs.

I believe you when you say the Illusionist wasn't in HD. This adds to my point as well, the "info" is almost never correct and thus useless, the movie is on an HD channel and presented in widescreen as well as upconverted to 1080i (my TiVo is set to native), so how am I or anyone else supposed to know that isn't how Starz thinks HD should look?]]>Dec 4th 2007 2:32PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Ben--

Maybe I'm missing your point, as you are surely missing mine.

My simple response to the above is: So what if I pay "twice", I pay less in total for X GB of hard drive plus the download fee. Bit for bit.

If you want to argue that the downloaded movie (as offered today) is inferior (as I think you are), then fine. Might well be. It also misses out on the extras, if one cares. But the bland assertion that HDD costs are high is NOT a very good one, because they generally aren't. Rotating magnetic media are the cheapest memory available for long term storage, unless maybe you want to count splitting the file over 6 DVDs.

That being said, I own about 40 HDM discs, so your other 9 points have merit.]]>Dec 4th 2007 6:36PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Since when did adoption have anything to do with the better technology. MP3 beat SACD and HD-DVD and I am sure it won on quality.

You all want to know which format will win the war? That is easy, the one that can make a burner and discs cheap enough to replace our DVD burners.

- Roger]]>Dec 4th 2007 3:31PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
DRM will ruin the next-gen downloadable content just like it has hampered HD media and mp3 players and made upgrading HDTVs far more difficult than they need to be. Those of you lemmings out there shouldn't jump off the cliff for the end of optical discs so fast.]]>Dec 4th 2007 3:33PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Downloads will grow (quite fast and to a much greater size, probably, that many imagine) but nevertheless they have their limitations (the general availability & quality of connections - even in much of the so-called developed world - being foremost).

Whether optical discs have too much longer to go after this gen is another matter, these may well be the last of what we may think of as 'conventional' optical discs.
But I'm quite sure some sort of physical media is going to take over.

The corporations might want us to rent and pay everytime we access 'their' content but people like to pay once and own.

So basically the corps are blowing smoke out their a$$es with their 'thinking' in that regard.]]>Dec 4th 2007 5:50PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
]]>Dec 4th 2007 5:52PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?s=3a9b34a28f525373ccd69cd67c7f0945&p=5874#post5874


"What you don't understand is corporate politics. Microsoft wants both formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads. That is the dirty secret no one is talking about. That is why Microsoft is handing out $100 million dollar checks to studios just embrace the HD DVD and not the leading, and superior Blu Ray. They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital downloads. Time will tell and you will see the truth."


]]>Dec 4th 2007 8:05PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
Also Michael Bay = fail.]]>Dec 4th 2007 10:34PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857067

right... it was just a small batch, and it only happened months after the disc was purchased.]]>Dec 4th 2007 10:36PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/
How long was the reign of DVD before Blu came along? I think DVD has only outsold VHS for about 7 years, if that. I'm sure that the HD optical disc era will come and go before downloads take over.
]]>Dec 4th 2007 10:53PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/04/10-reason-why-hd-dvd-or-blu-ray-is-here-to-stay/Dec 5th 2007 9:58AM