Consumer Reports' take on HD DVD / Blu-ray players: it's a tie
We've taken a look at a number of Consumer Reports' views in the past, but the latest critiques give format fanboys (hardly) any ammunition to use against their respective rivals. Reportedly, CR evaluated Pioneer's DBP-94HD and Toshiba's HD-XA2, and while we were anxious to see which unit "proved" superior, the fact is that both units garnered an impressive 91-percent rating. Granted, the publication did review a total of nine high-definition players from each camp, but the general feeling was that all of them provided "excellent HD picture quality with high-def discs." In the end, we were told that both sides had their pros and cons; for Blu-ray, it's the wider array of players from various manufacturers, while HD DVD maintains the lead on price. Truth be told, we're not terribly shocked to see both camps getting a fair amount of praise, and while we know there's lots of you out there holding out for one to win the proverbial race, it sounds like we could be waiting a bit longer for the finish line to be crossed.[Image courtesy of ConsumerReports]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
witsend @ Nov 18th 2007 6:29PM
I give up. This whole thing isn't going to end in the next year. We will all probably have both types of players (or dual format players). HD DVD is not going to win (be the only HD disc format) because the PS3 will sell enough to keep Blu-ray alive no matter what else happens. It doesn't look like HD DVD is going away either anymore. So basically we are all the worse off and common consumers are going to be very reluctant to buy into either format.
Sami @ Nov 18th 2007 6:43PM
I must say you are totally wrong.
Having two formats have made the prices go down. The format war is the best thing that has happened the market and the customers. Just look at when the DVD format entered the market. I remember bying one of the first DVD players and they were quite expensive, and kept on being so for years. It took a long time for DVD to get established on the market. Thanks to the price cuts people will enjoy HD DVD/Blu-ray way faster than with DVD (imo). People being confused about two formats is temporary. And in the end, I believe combo players will win the market, i.e. making no format a winner.
Thinking about Joshua Zyber's column (www.highdefdigest.com), HD will be a niche market for a long time. Therefore reluctant buyers wont be a major problem for a while; for us who though want to be there from the beginning, it is great.
/Proud owner of both HD DVD and Blu-ray players (still voting red though, because of region free discs and standards)
Mike @ Nov 18th 2007 7:07PM
It doesn't matter what happens with PS3...once HD DVD has enough players out there for fox or disney to see profits they will go neutral and then its all hd dvd from there.
JeffDM @ Nov 18th 2007 7:04PM
The format war has gotten the players to be cheaper, but not the discs, nor is it really helping getting a lot of titles made.
This whole thing has split the AV community three or four ways, one, both or none. Studios have to decide what format to support, meaning either they only support about half the HDM market or double their expenses in making essentially redundant discs to catch all of the HD market. That division is making it hard for a studio to justify supporting such a niche market when that niche market is split two ways ways. We're still not getting a lot of back catalog titles, I think in part because the market has been needlessly split.
Craig WB @ Nov 19th 2007 12:15AM
Your living in a Dream world Mike, The only way this scenario could happen is if blu-ray players suddenly stopped selling which of course is ridiculous, or perhaps if prices never dropped and suddenly became an issue seeing as Blu-ray owners actually seem to be buying Blu-ray discs where as HD-DVD owners seem more interested in subscribing to net flicks or buying a cheap player just to show how much they support the format because they have a deep irrational hatred for Sony.
The reality at best is that Blu-ray will continue to soldier on and Toshiba will continue to follow because they seem to hate this Java stuff like it ran over their mothers and their rabbits.
Justin @ Nov 18th 2007 7:44PM
I have to agree with Sami on this one. Competition has made prices drop, and has led to some pretty sweet deals over the past few months. And the Consumer Reports article is probably right. There aren't a whole lot of differences in quality when it comes right down to it between the two camps. This TVSnob loves the ongoing format war though. I think it's absolutely great to see that kind of competition in the electronics industry, especially for us consumers. I'm totally neutral, but nonetheless loving the fight!
witsend @ Nov 19th 2007 4:25PM
You guys are correct that having the two formats has produced some great deals (like the $99 HD DVD players) that have resulted in lower prices than we would otherwise have at the moment.
That said, with one only format many smaller companies (think of the $30 DVD players at Target) would be investing in making HD disc players. In the long-term, I think the price level won't benefit from having the two formats. The intense competition between the two camps will be offset by less competition from smaller manufacturers.
For example maybe let's say that with only one format total demand is 100 (hypothetical index number). With two formats some buyers are going to be turned off entirely and total demand might be 80 (again, hypothetical index number). These folks will just stick with DVD. Now since total market demand is less and split between two formats, the smaller manufacturers may not have the incentive to invest in projects to build either one of the players. In this case, we would not see the price reductions that we would get with only format.
TJ @ Nov 18th 2007 7:56PM
Dual-format still seems the way to go right now. Both have their strong points and, though I prefer Blu-ray, I have an HD DVD player for those Universal and Paramount movies. I'm sure there are plenty of HD DVD buffs who have a PS3 for Fox and Disney flicks.
Too bad CR didn't review PS3 and the 360 add-on. They're 2 of the best (and cheapest) solutions out there.
HDpurist @ Nov 18th 2007 9:47PM
When it comes to electronics, CR are a bunch of morons that don't know their left foot from their right. Given the current state of the format war, BD is clearly in the lead and will continue to dominate as they've had for the past year over HD-DVD. Fox and Disney would never go dual format since they'd lose money if they had supported HD-DVD. Both are making huge profits off BD sales and will continue to do so. For example, if you go to ANY store that sells HDM, HD-DVD titles are *always* well stocked; the BD titls are always scarce - particularly popular titles for example 300 and Superman Returns. BD sales are higher, no doubt. Software/film titles will sort this war out, not the hardware/price. BD will win (if not already has won in some countries).
Michael @ Nov 18th 2007 10:18PM
@HDpurist (or should I call you h4Idol?) - while I agree with your assessment of CR being "electronics morons" (good call actually!) I have to dispute the remainder of your post. As usual, you jump to conclusions that really have no basis in fact whatsoever. I have yet to be in ANY store that has more HD-DVDs than BD. Usually the reverse is true. Our local Fry's store has the best selection of both and I could purchase pretty much anything at any time in either format without the popular titles being out of stock as you claim. In fact, I've never seen Superman Returns or 300 out of stock anywhere either. Where do you live - outer Siberia? Out with the Hatfields & McCoys? Please refrain from such inane blather that borders on farcical.
Oh and I don't think that BD has "won" in any country on the planet either regardless of what Sony & the BD fanboyz would have you believe. You forget, HD is region free. BD? Not so region free. Look for Fox to start HD production sometime next year with Disney and Columbia left holding the (Blu)bag. We'll see them both come around by mid-2009 mark my words.
MJZimmer88 @ Nov 18th 2007 10:24PM
"When it comes to electronics, CR are a bunch of morons that don't know their left foot from their right. Given the current state of the format war, BD is clearly in the lead and will continue to dominate as they've had for the past year over HD-DVD. Fox and Disney would never go dual format since they'd lose money if they had supported HD-DVD. Both are making huge profits off BD sales and will continue to do so. For example, if you go to ANY store that sells HDM, HD-DVD titles are *always* well stocked; the BD titls are always scarce - particularly popular titles for example 300 and Superman Returns. BD sales are higher, no doubt. Software/film titles will sort this war out, not the hardware/price. BD will win (if not already has won in some countries)."
That is the worst arguement i have ever heard. And it's probably because any who has been following the stupid battle, and i assume you have too, is getting bored, tired, and angry at the fact that we dont care what kind of disc to buy, just get it to us cheap, and the players need to be cheap too. The competition lowers the price of the players, and once the technology progresses past the early adopters (which EVERYONE with either format is so far), the prices of the discs need to fall.
As for the scarcity of discs, that's stupid too, because you dont know when stores receive their shipments in, presumably seperately, and every store has their own opinions on who they like better, and then grant shelf space accordingly. For example, kmart says blu ray is too expensive for their customers, so they stock up plenty of hd dvds. Best buy seems to love sony in general, so they give 5 shelves to blu ray discs and 2 to hd dvds. The hd dvds are thus all crowded(Only their sides with their titles can be seen), while the blu ray are spread out as this as possible to make as big a display as they can (while the only players best buy even offer are 2 floors below, where their sales people dont know the differences between the two, and tell the customers false things on both sides to make them look smarter than they actually are). It's comical really. And the moral of the story? The real world doesnt give a crap. It's all a scam to confuse mothers. If either party flooded the market with an inexpensive player, they will win. Instantly. Note the 90k players that sold out immediately when hd dvd was at 100$. So what if it's older techonolgy or if more blu ray players sell every week? If the average joe shmoe can get a cheap older player, they'll buy it. That's all there is to it.
Johnny Venom @ Nov 18th 2007 11:51PM
I think the comments on price are spot on. Given that we could see an economic downturn, consumers are looking at price more closely, even AV fanatics. If there is a visual difference between Blu-ray and HD DVD, do you really believe the average consumer can tell? Most are starting to get on the HDTV bandwagon, replacing old sets, they just blew between $800-$2400 on these televisions. Odds are, the units were purchased on credit. Now comes the holiday shopping season, if they are still in the buying mood, they probably will start looking at price, seeing as how they just made a major purchase.
Disney, Fox, Universal, I think in all honesty they don't care which format wins. Yes, they investest (or were given the new HD era version of payolla), but what they care most is the numbers. And that is why I say price is king above all else, because consumers want that "bargain." You can fool 'em into thinking that Blu-ray or HD DVD will be the "winner." But when they're at that store and want to pair something with their HD-ready television, it ain't whether it is 1080p or super dooper surround sound. They want to know what they can get that will look awesome on their new fangled TV and get the most for their buck. Those A2 units sold because Jane & Joe Credit-card Consumer saw the words "HD" and then they saw the price and figured it was a "bargain."
xbob @ Nov 19th 2007 12:02AM
I got tired of worrying about what format wins. Movies I want to watch are on both. Players are getting cheaper, and Black Friday deals are coming (I took advantage of a PS3 credit offer for my Blu, 360 add-on for my HD). The winning consumer owns both. Once you do that, it truly is a tie (at least in your house).
juanchopancho @ Nov 19th 2007 12:11AM
For those of you who doubted Wal-mart's format preference following the $98 HD-A2 sale...
On 11/24 at 8:00am (running through 11:59pm on 11/25), the 80GB PS3 ($499) will come with 10 FREE Blu-ray movies instantly. You choose any 10 BD titles under $30 within the store and they will override the prices to zero. For those stores that carry BD already, additional titles are being sent in for the sale. For those that do not have BD in their store (a small minority) product will be sent to each store specifically for this sale.
Oh, and you still get your 5 FREE movies by mail.
Happy shopping.
Mike @ Nov 19th 2007 12:43AM
I didn't say they would leave blue ray...so blue ray sales are irrelavent...software or hardware.
You can be sure all studios has numbers that tell them how may players has to be sold for them to see a profit or how many copies of a certain movie need to be sold.
The number might not be 500k players it might not even be 1 million. But you be sure both Fox and Disney wanted to know how Transformers did on HD DVD...just as Universal wanted to see how spiderman 3 did on blue ray.
Would Disney sell Pirates on HD DVD if they thought they could sell 200k copies? what about when day and dates on HD DVD are selling 400k? Like I said all the studios have a number where profits will just become to tempting to ignore.
jason w @ Nov 21st 2007 9:06AM
The attach rate is higher for HDDVD.... THAT MEANS MORE HDDVD DISC ARE PURCHASED PER UNIT SOLD! There are more bluray players because of PS3 but not every one or even 1/4 of the people that have them use them for movies.
Just because some people dont like Bluray does not mean they hate sony. It may mean they like the movies on HDdvd better. Hell I have both formats and dont care who wins but people who make arguments like yours makes me favor the other side.
IT WILL END WHEN DUAL PLAYERS ARE IN THE $200.00 range.
JBDragon @ Nov 19th 2007 12:55AM
Right this minute. Nov 18th, Amazon has a deal going on. It expires at midnight. Buy a Toshiba HD-A3 for $199, Get 10 movies for free. You get (300 & The Bourne Identity) with the player, Select 3 more from the selection they have from Universal, plus the 5 free mail in rebate. Amazon also has the same deal going for the HD-A30 for $311.67 and the HD-A35 for $405.16
Anyone interested can go here.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=xs_gb_rss_22259/?ie=UTF8&docId=1000167901&camp=212301&creative=380205&tag=rssfeeds-20
JBDragon @ Nov 19th 2007 12:56AM
Amazon also currently has 47% off these HD DVD's until Midnight today.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000166481&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=right-2&pf_rd_r=13GJX6ZCC68A242PQD2H&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=331239301&pf_rd_i=193642011
h4ldol @ Nov 19th 2007 1:53AM
Again, for those of you who don't already know, Joe 6-pack is irrelevant in the format "war." He is going to stick with his DVDs and S-video cables that he is so satisfied with, and the HD format will be decided primarily by the type of early adopter who buys blu-ray. Why? Well, b/c the blu-ray owner is the type of early adopter who buys new tech formats b/c he likes it, wants it, and will spend what he needs to get it. This does not fit the profile of the average, "I am going to sit on the sidelines until HDM players drop to a reasonable price, that is, under $100," HD DVD owner. Price is holding the HD DVD side down, so they can only move players when Toshiba takes a huge loss on its clearance fire sales and they mostly rent rather than purchase HDM. HD DVD is the predominant HD format among Netflix users. Blu-ray is the overwhelming favorite HD format of those who actually purchase media, as evidenced by the 2:1 sales advantage of BD over HD DVD since inception, and beating HD DVD every single week in sales. Not to mention, 4:1 in Europe, 9:1 in Japan. Hate to burst your bubble HD DVD fanboys, but you guys are not the right demographic to take your format to victory, and Joe 6-pack is not going to help you like you are wishing and hoping. Good thing for everyone, though, is that blu-ray is clearly the technologically superior format, and so everyone, in the end, wins when blu-ray wins.
Chad @ Nov 19th 2007 2:42AM
The market is completely different than the Beta and VHS days. Just because there are two formats doesn't mean one will win. Video game consoles are sharing the spotlight and they are doing fine. Theres no reason it couldn't happen here.
As meantioned before the compition has really drove prices down and even though it is confusing for the average consumer (with beta, vhs stuck in their heads) that would eventually lift when this fight is generally considered Blu-Ra and HD-DVD rather than Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD.
Johnny Venom @ Nov 19th 2007 3:27AM
h4ldol, you are probably correct on your assumption that Joe and Jane Consumer sticking with their SD DVDs and going as far as getting one of those upconverting units. But something has to happen, a spark that serves as a catalyst for mass adoption of High Definition video discs. You may think they are irrelavent, but I guarantee you the studio executives don't. They've invested a lot into HD, and they want to see a return on their money. Just pure speculation here, but perhaps the studios, if not also companies like Sony and Toshiba, fear the most is that the masses simply ignore this whole thing like they did Laser Disc.
"Why bother when down the road something akin to iTunes for HD video is comming down the road?" Thats probably one of the questions keeping the suits awake at night. While they love selling AV enthusiasts all these new gizmos at "brand new tech" prices, in the long run they need the masses to make their shareholders happy. Blu-ray, HD DVD, it don't matter if the rest of us don't buy it. Like I said, their biggest worry is that these two formats become the stepchildren of the Laser Disc.
Outside of folks like us who go to forums/sites like this, the days of the consumer paying a big premium for next gen are over. Good enough is the key for folks, especially when they have to finance the bloody thing. Look at the Nintendo Wii, it may not have HD nor even DVD capabilities (yet), but my stars it's dirt cheap (compared to teh 360 or PS3) and to the folks by golly it seems next gen! The same is for movies, sorry my friend, the fat years are over.
h0mi @ Nov 19th 2007 4:13AM
Most consumers will stick with DVDs in the near term, but to dismiss "Joe 6 pack" entirely is a bit short sighted and silly. The fact is, there aren't enough of those early adopters to sell hardware and discs to... any "early adopter" not scared off by this war has already bought a player (or 2) and the players are currently making inroads in the "joe 6 pack" territory.
"Price is holding the HD DVD side down, so they can only move players when Toshiba takes a huge loss on its clearance fire sales and they mostly rent rather than purchase HDM. "
Why do you come to this totally bizarre conclusion? When HD-DVD player prices were $500+, they managed to sell only 80k players (2006 sales figures). As prices have gone down, sales have gone up. Blu-ray has followed the exact same pattern- when the first sub $600 player hit the market in June, Blu-ray standalone sales exceeded HD-DVD for the first time. Ps3 price cuts to $500 spurred more 100k+ weekly sales, and with the latest price cuts on the ps3, you've seen even greater sales.
"Blu-ray is the overwhelming favorite HD format of those who actually purchase media, as evidenced by the 2:1 sales advantage of BD over HD DVD since inception"
Blu-ray has never outsold HD-DVD 2:1 since inception. It's still 61:39 as it has been the past few months. YTD is 65:36 which has varied somewhat since the 2:1 ratio a month or 2 ago,.
If Joe 6 pack won't buy blu-ray, blu-ray will die just as UMD has "died". It will only live on in the bargain bin for disaffected ps3 owners unable to find any other use for their console.
TestSubject86 @ Nov 19th 2007 4:26AM
I bought a HDTV a couple of weeks ago and decided to get th HD-DVD drive for the xbox360 and a 40gig PS3. If you get both players in this config, you get a total of 12 free movies. One with the HD-dvd drive, one with the PS3, and you get 5 or your choice (from a very limited list) from each camp through the mail. I thought I was doing alright until my HDTV crapped out on me, eesh.
HD4ME @ Nov 19th 2007 5:33AM
Dodgey PS3 sales numbers reported, sony misinformation, wow, how unusual.
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/ps3-sales-boost-not-so-big-after-all/18578/
okeygrak @ Nov 19th 2007 9:34AM
The problem with HD-DVD is that is a one trick pony in terms of actual support. It is a Toshiba-Microsoft stronghold, in which their aggressive price cutting has won them player sales in the short term ( at a loss ), and more importantly it has alienated all the other hardware manufacturers. There is no other legitimate consumer electronics manufacturer out there who is going to enter into the $98 high def player fight, when they everything to loose and nothing to gain. Toshiba can sustain this model because they along with Microsoft are in it for the long term royalties battle, with the HD-DVD standard, iHD, and Microsofts VC-1 Codec. There is just no way that another manufacturer is going to build a next-gen disc player, with the cost of licensing from Toshiba, royalties to Microsoft, an ethernet port, dual decoders, and all the other tech involved in making a HD-DVD player, and sell it at $98. The XB360 external drive is basically a barebones 5 1/2" drive with no decoder and a standard USB connection, and it is selling for $179. Now add all the other electronics in to make it a stand alone, and sell it at $98. Looks mighty attractive as a sustainable business model doesn't it?
Now take into account the Blu-Ray model, in which a conglomeration of Manufacturers ( Sony, Samsung, Sharp, Panasonic, Pioneer, LG etc ) is trying to establish a viable sales platform. I find it interesting that people seem to harbor this dislike for Sony and clearly blind their sense of impartiality in this format war, yet they seem to embrace the heavily backed Microsoft format. This is the same Microsoft who is involved in monopolistic practices and anti-competitive lawsuits in nearly every developed economy in this world. This is the Microsoft that squeezes innovation out of markets and consumes competitive products to lock down markets to drive up their revenue. Like the XBOX business model, which has lost them billions in order to gain market share, Microsoft is heavily subsidizing a loss leading business plan in order to have a hold on a home media format in which they stand to make revenue on every player and disc sold. The fanboy HD-DVD backers who claim an allegiance to a plastic disc format because they don't want to support the EVIL empire Sony because they installed a rootkit on a music CD one need to re-evaluate things. The hypocrisy of choosing a format because of a dislike of Sony and thus backing the largest DRM squeezing, closed format, proprietary, windows media everything, product keying, online activating, innovation less, poor quality standards, RROD'ing Microsftt.... is astounding.
Tim H @ Nov 19th 2007 10:51AM
@okeygrak:
You really were making some decent points there. Then you launched into your anti-Microsoft diatribe and now you look like a fanboy... Stick to the facts next time, avoid throwing out random conjecture without backing it up, and you might find people more receptive to what you have to say.
Not trying to take sides, just pointing out what I see...
D@n @ Nov 19th 2007 11:09AM
@Tim H
I don't think you get the concept of irony!
He's quite rightly pointing out that while all the HD-DVD fan boys on here are dancing to the tune of Toshiba, spreading tales of Sony and their evil evil ways, they are forgetting that Toshiba have Micro$oft sitting on their shoulder, laughing maniacally, and rubbing their hands together in glee.
Leonardo DiCrapio @ Nov 19th 2007 12:13PM
the format war is going to be waged over the christmas buying season. hd-dvd is behind now but with sub-$200 toshiba hd-dvd players being sold right now at circuit city, best buy, sears, and amazon (with amazon sweetening the pot with 3 additional "free" titles to give you 10 "free" titles with the player), it is not hard to imagine hd-dvd being ahead by the end of the year.
HDpurist @ Nov 19th 2007 8:28PM
Wow, went to buy Oceans 13 and the HD-DVD version is $5 more expensive than the BD version. Also the Oceans Trilogy is $5 more expensive as well over the BD version.
I'm sticking with BD, the lower cost alternative.
locke6854 @ Nov 20th 2007 3:30AM
I've noticed that too, quite a few places.. ~27.95 for HD, ~23.95 for blu.
amazon, walmart, hastings.....
but it beats bestbuy. (though i'm not factoring any BOGO) i love how bestbuy keeps contradicting its own name.
question-- i figured blu would be more expensive due to limited pressing plants, and hd would be cheaper since you can use existing machinery?
you only have to buy the player once. its the movies that can rack up the prices.
hell, even game companies sell consoles at a loss, knowing they'll make up for it with $60 game sales.
The Jeremy @ Nov 20th 2007 2:26PM
It has been repeated time and time again on this website and others that WalMart is favoring HD DVD due to the lower prices of the players. However, on Saturday following Black Friday, WalMart will be offering the 40GB version of the PS3 with 10 free Blu-ray titles. That's right...10. Not to mention that the buyer still qualifies for the 5 for free via mail offer. I don't know if the 10 number already counts the *Spider-Man 3* title already bundled in the box though, and they guarantee only 2 units available per store, so jump on it if you want this offer.
As for other retailers, Fry's seems to devote far more shelf space to Blu-ray than HD DVD. However, the smaller retailer RC Willey carries a ton of Blu-ray players but has a rinkey dink selection of Blu-ray movies and carries a lot more HD DVD titles. Best Buy locations seem to vary based upon what their local customers buy more of. Some heavily stock Blu-ray versus HD DVD while others are slanted the other way or are close to neutral with nearly the same number of titles stocked.
As for the idea that the format war has lowered prices substantially for the consumer, well, that's a half-baked story. Sony has been willing to subsidize the cost of the Blu-ray player inside the PS3 but not on their stand-alone units. It is widely thought that Microsoft is heavily subsidizing Toshiba's losses on their HD DVD units. Since only the PS3 is being subsidized on the Blu-ray side, that has left open room for the other manufacturers to make stand-alone dedicated Blu-ray decks at higher prices whereas Toshiba's moves have made it unsustainable for other manufacturers to make non-subsidized stand-alone dedicated players. If Microsoft wants HD DVD to win or at least provoke a long-term stalemate, they do need to swap out the DVD drive in the Xbox360 Elite with an HD DVD drive, but they probably won't because finally after 5 years, they can brag that the Xbox division finally made a profit of $100 million+ [after $5 billion + in losses] and if they were to bundle the HD DVD drive standard, they'd be in the red again.
If both formats survive, I seriously think all the manufacturers should standarize on using the Cell processor in their decks. Not only is that in Sony's best interest, but also Toshiba's since they both are partners in the Cell project, and any PS3 owner will tell you that it is a great decoder. Of course, it would be up to Toshiba/Microsoft to port HDi over to the chip since Sony has no interest doing so since they back BD-J. To my knowledge, Toshiba hasn't made any comments about using the Cell [in the future] in their HD DVD players since 2006.
navstar @ Nov 21st 2007 12:09PM
Cell is expensive overkill for simple HD AVC decompression. There's no need for it in any HD player, Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.
I have both a Ps3 60GB and Xbox HD add-on. While both look spectacular, I really like HD-DVD. Mainly because it's REGION FREE and it delivers on BD's Profile 2.0 features RIGHT NOW. Picture-in-Picture video commentary completely changes the viewing experience (Check out 300 or Mission Impossible III on HD-DVD if you doubt me).
I just want combo prices to hit below $200.
Coolone3000 @ Nov 24th 2007 9:39AM
Who the F*$k cares if Toshiba or Microsoft are taking a loss on HD-DVD players. You Blu-Fanboys will really take anything you can get huh. Now who in this forum doesn't think that Sony takes a loss on every PS3.......anyone.......anyone?? Thats right they were taking a loss by selling them at $600 and they sure as hell are taking a loss at $400 so get over it. Good price=Good Sales its that simple.
@okeygrak (and supporters) Its the DVD forum that initiated the creation of HD-DVD not Microsoft, they are simply supporting the format. The irony is that you're probably using a windows based computer, just a guess lol. And not all of us who buy HD-DVD are huge microsoft fans, it may just be that we are smart consumers who like to save money. I payed less then $200 for my player and i'm watching the same quality movie that you payed at least double for. I'm not a complete sony hater. I have a psp, i love sony ericcson phones, but you can't deny how obnoxiously cocky sony is. Before the PS3 went on sale they stated they would win the console war by name recognition alone, like they are top sH*t or something, like they don't actually have to try?? Now they are in last place in the console wars at the moment and i'm happy, its actually making them try.