As expected,
Transformers is at the top this week on the Nielsen VideoScan charts courtesy of Home Media Magazine. What some didn't expect is for Blu-ray to continue to outsell HD DVD overall, despite the fact Blu-ray didn't have any notable titles that week. But wait you ask, didn't
Transformers sell more copies than any other movie? Well, that's where it gets interesting, while Paramount claims they sold 190k copies, Nielsen only counted 115k. Some might say that's because they don't count Wal-Mart, and while that could be the case, the Wal-Mart near our house still doesn't carry either format. Judging by the titles in the list and how the list compares to last week's, we'd say that Blu-ray's buy one get one free deal went pretty well and we really can't wait to see what the HD DVD camp is willing to do to offset Spiderman 3 in a few weeks -- but we'd bet no matter what they do, it'll be good for the consumer.
- Transformers 100
- Pirates of the Carribean: Dead Man's Chest 9.47
- Pirates of the Carribean: Curse of the Black Pearl 9.12
- Fatastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer 5.47
- Apocalypto 5.02
- Deja Vu 3.71
- The Prestige 3.60
- Wild Hogs 3.53
- The Reaping BR 3.42
- 300 BR 3.37
[Via
AVSForum]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
SexyBeast @ Oct 26th 2007 1:51PM
Wow, I thought this would be the first week this year that HD DVD was going to win a week for once.
ryan @ Oct 26th 2007 2:10PM
It's quite odd they don't even consider walmart sales at all so I question any accuracy but I'm sure the 2 for 1 really hosed up any hopes of hd-dvd passing blu-ray this week.
Hopefully there will be an article questioning the accuracy of sony's claims after they no doubt say spiderman sold the most in about a week to pass transformers.
Ryan P @ Oct 26th 2007 2:06PM
FYI, Walmart and Target were the only place within 60 miles of me to buy HD DVDs until Best Buy opened this morning. Hard to believe those don't count.
dman @ Oct 26th 2007 3:42PM
Hmm another Poconos Engadgeter?
TrentD @ Oct 26th 2007 4:07PM
Amazon is your friend - usually lower prices too.
Kaiser @ Oct 26th 2007 2:11PM
I don't care if Betamax is selling THREE times more than HD DVD - you can still count me in the HD DVD camp because it isn't a Sony format (Memory Stick, MiniDisc, UMD, microMV, on and on...).
The successor to the DVD format should be decided by the standards body that was put together to decide it. That would be the DVD forum.
MegaZone @ Oct 26th 2007 10:45PM
Blu-ray was put together by a consortium, the Blu-ray Disc Association, not Sony. Why is the DVD Forum somehow better than the BDA? They share most of their members - they're very similar industry organizations. There is nothing special about the DVD Forum.
Long Diatribe @ Oct 26th 2007 2:11PM
Does anyone know if this IS or ISN'T a software sales stat? Every time I read the reports, it sounds like it is just movies, but according to the news at blu-ray.com it IS a software sales stat.
If it is software sales, we have yet another worthless statistic considering software sales include the PS3 games and make is an apples to oranges.
I know they have been pushing a lot of games to BR that didn't need the space to help ramp up production and bring costs down, but if it counts, I'll be more irritated then a hemroid in a some bvds made of sandpaper, and be preaching that Toshiba deserves a frying pan to the head for not pointing this out, which, based on their track record, wouldn't surprise me.
I hate this format war. I hope both sides choke.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=618
ryan @ Oct 26th 2007 2:25PM
The software verbiage is interesting and may be true. If that's the case, which I doubt it is, then the comparison is totally weak.
ryan @ Oct 26th 2007 2:26PM
The software verbiage is interesting and may be true. If that's the case, which I doubt it is, then the comparison is totally weak.
Dave @ Oct 26th 2007 2:19PM
Why did we suddenly stop using ratios? Outsold? By 1%--and that can easily be attributed to the special BOGO promotion.
mlody11 @ Oct 26th 2007 2:35PM
If HD-DVD keeps going, they might be back at the same place they started the year...
It looks like HD-DVD fell to an all time low to 29.6% and has come up to 35%... good sign for the end of the year but they certainly need to do better.
I personally think that HD-DVD needs to do more in advertising and playing the sony tactic on "The format war is over and we won" while keeping costs down. This is seemed to have the dork boys at the retail shops that actually sell these Items to people relaize that there is another format that does HD for cheaper...
Too many times I hear... "I just bought my awsome HDTV but I can't get a HD-Player because sony's player is almost $1000." Then I have to go and explain that Toshiba makes HD-DVD and its less than $200 at walmart or $300 at BB.
Sony needs to make their Crap cheaper.
Toshiba needs to advertise their Crap.
First company to realize their relative weakness and correct it wins. The problem for Toshiba is that its harder to realize that you need to advertise... although I see alot more of it...
Eddie @ Oct 26th 2007 2:37PM
I'll take it. I got nothing to say, Bluray outsold.
HD kids, we didn't put up the number to shut BR camp up even on our biggest single week. True, you can probably halve the total sold if you only count total PAID FOR (their BOGO promo), but you gotta hand it to them, when you're playing the stats game a win is a win.
Still, giving away movies to up your scans and you're still only ahead by 1%, HD DVD is alive and well and they're going for double or nothing coming into the Holiday season. I just hope we don't get kicked in the nuts again like we did this week.
C'mon HDDVD, Halve the prices (and still make more profit than BR) and take this war once and for all. After all, we're all really just playing the stats game, right?
domerdel @ Oct 26th 2007 2:49PM
Eddie,
not trying to diffuse the record breaking week Transformers had, but with the timing of releases, the BOGO deal for blu was a decent tactic. There are clearly more titles headed for both sides this holiday season, a lot of the must-haves are why I chose blu-ray. don't get me wrong, some HD-DVD movies are tempting, but it's one of the reasons I chose blu was the movie selection, and I really like the competitive holiday line up it has to offer.
domerdel @ Oct 26th 2007 2:39PM
valiant effort by HD-DVD camp. It was a close one this week. Glad Blu, came on top. What's that mean? Nothing, just feeds ego to one side I guess :)
Dave @ Oct 26th 2007 2:44PM
@Ben
What's the ratio again? You forgot to post it for this week.
domerdel @ Oct 26th 2007 2:57PM
YTD: 1.857:1
Inception: 1.564:1
Week: 1.040:1
Dave @ Oct 26th 2007 3:39PM
Thanks, domerdel. My guess is that the ratio looked too much like 1:1 to actually include it in the post. The rules seem to change every week.
ryan @ Oct 26th 2007 3:03PM
With the discrepancy between 115k and 190k units sold, I'm curious to see which way it would truly fall if totally accurate.
TrentD @ Oct 26th 2007 3:30PM
My guess is (from an HD DVD supporter) that the 190k is the quantity shipped to retailers, and 115k is the number sold through to customers.
Sony played the whole "X number shipped" game with Casino Royale and got blasted for it. Looks like either Nielson counted wrong, or Paramount was using the "shipped to retail" number.
Mexigun @ Oct 26th 2007 3:04PM
Wow, you can almost feel the air let out of the HD DVD camp's lungs with this one. They have been waiting all year for this week, and now the build up of gloating has to go down the drain, because BLU RAY still outsold HD DVD. I'm sure excuses will replace the goating though.
Peace,
Mexigun
ryan @ Oct 26th 2007 3:07PM
mexigun, lol, you're right, this is life or death, the wind was knocked out of the hd-dvd crowd.
It's too bad sony had to do a bogo to keep the lead. I'd be interested in seeing the numbers straight up.
Kevin Murphy @ Oct 26th 2007 5:26PM
well perhaps, if many of us didn't already know it and said so a week ago: half-price movies are hard to beat with one title. What's surprising is that it was that close. Sony's people can't be happy with this.
HD @ Oct 26th 2007 10:24PM
No excuses Mexigun, BR won again.
As an HD DVD supporter though, I am very happy with this weeks result. When you look at the David and Goliath scenario between the 2 camps, and you consider that HD DVD has been closing the gap recently, I feel very confident.
Bring it on Goliath, we have a little pebble in the form of $198 players at WM that i think can do some damage :)
Mexigun @ Oct 26th 2007 3:04PM
Wow, you can almost feel the air let out of the HD DVD camp's lungs with this one. They have been waiting all year for this week, and now the build up of gloating has to go down the drain, because BLU RAY still outsold HD DVD. I'm sure excuses will replace the gloating though.
Peace,
Mexigun
Jay @ Oct 26th 2007 3:27PM
The ignorance based on blind Sony hatred paid for (more or less) by Toshiba and Microsoft continues...
"I don't care if Betamax is selling THREE times more than HD DVD - you can still count me in the HD DVD camp because it isn't a Sony format (Memory Stick, MiniDisc, UMD, microMV, on and on...)."
So you don't listen to CDs and have never used a CD-ROM? You don't use optical and coaxial audio for surround sound? You refuse to use any form of portable audio device, and care nothing for HDTV in the US or Japan? Those are all products brought to you by Sony, either alone, or with at least one equal partner (Philips, in the case of CDs, SPDIF surround audio, and, yes, Blu-ray).
So, make up your mind: are you essentially stuck to phonographs or are you just spouting the Toshiba/MS party line?
"The successor to the DVD format should be decided by the standards body that was put together to decide it. That would be the DVD forum."
The DVD Forum is not a standards body, it's a corporate promotion group set up initially by--surprise!--Toshiba. It also includes every single Blu-ray manufacturer, who after essentially being forced by Warner (under Lieberfarb directed by Toshiba) to use Toshiba's format, developed and announced Blu-ray *before* HD DVD, a fact conveniently omitted by most HD DVD supporters.
Angus_rg @ Oct 26th 2007 4:28PM
Stop spreading miss-information. Toshiba did not set up the DVD forum and they do not control it. Toshiba was one of the 10 founding members, as was Sony. That ought to tell you something if Sony is a member, and the couldn't get approval of BR.
If you look at the current 20 steering members of the DVD forum, it includes 13 members of the Blu Ray Association, 11 of which are on the Board of Directors. The fact that it did not get approved tells me a lot about the infancy of the format's design specifications.
I'm not saying that BR will loose, nor would I bet money on either side, but don't act like toshiba runs the DVD forum.
Incase you doubt me, you can put together what I said by doing a comparison at their own sites:
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-14009/Index.html
http://www.dvdforum.org/about-steering.htm
For those who want to verify, here is the break down:
BR Board of Directors and DVD Forum Steering members
Hitachi, Ltd.
LG Electronics Inc.
PIONEER CORPORATION
Walt Disney Pictures and Television
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics(AKA Philips Electronics)
Sharp
Sony Corporation
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.
Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.
THOMSON
BR General Members and DVD Forum Steering members
NEC Corporation
Sanyo
Smee @ Oct 26th 2007 9:53PM
@Jay
YEAH good, you completely forgot to mention a sony VIRUS supplied free when you play your legitimately purchased CD. Song can go get f*****
Long Diatribe @ Oct 26th 2007 3:43PM
190 is probably units sold. Remember, Neilsen doesn't include all shops, like Amazon, walmart, etc.
The big question is, not all shops ran the Disney BOGOF. Where those shops mostly Neilsen targets? Disney gets the smart marketing if they were. Of course, planning the BOGOF the week of the biggest blockbuster release may merit the award anyway.
Universal and or Paramount get the moron award for not running a similar program to counter act it. Ditto to them picking the cheaper format and not passing the savings on to the customer. That would have been a slam dunk for the stats war.
Hopefully all vendors involved on both sides will drink the grape flavored kool-aid. They all seem dumb enough to. Even disney, for saying people can tell the difference, and not knowing the same codec will look just as good, regardless of the physical media it is on.
Does anyone ever get the feeling some vendors may have picked the loosing side with the intent of getting a double sale?
James @ Oct 26th 2007 3:35PM
What HD-DVD can do is ask...
"What kind of HD channels do you watch on cable?" HD channels or Blu-Ray channels? Obviously no such thing as a Blu-Ray channel but its catchy. HD-DVD, HD-Cable-Dish channels. Think in HD. HD is more widely used more when buying TV's. HD this HD that. HDMI-not BDMI. Though I do own a PS3 and Xbox 360 HD-DVD, I'd just like to see dual formats on a single disk or both formats in one DVD box. I'd win either way.
James @ Oct 26th 2007 3:41PM
Mexigun, these numbers shoud surprise no one. I wasn't expecting Transformers to sell so well though. Good week for HD DVD.
Jody @ Oct 26th 2007 3:47PM
It'll be interesting to see the numbers on Nov 6 for Ratatouille & Cars and Nov 13 for Shrek the 3rd. December 11th will also be very telling when the Hp set comes out.
Kevin Murphy @ Oct 26th 2007 10:57PM
"It'll be interesting to see the numbers on Nov 6 for Ratatouille & Cars and Nov 13 for Shrek the 3rd. December 11th will also be very telling when the Hp set comes out."
I might be very wrong, but I just don't see Ratatouille and Cars doing all that well with the PS3 crowd. Spiderman 3 and Pirates 3 for sure, but Ratatouille? Cars? Those are more family films rather than gamers'. Much the same for Harry Potter, maybe more so. Now, the Blade Runner sets should do real well on Blu.
Part of the problem with Sony's PS3 strategy is that gamers are a narrow movie demographic. Probably why the attach rates are so poor -- some films go like gangbusters but others just don't interest 10-30 year old boys.
dl @ Oct 26th 2007 3:50PM
@James, hahaha thats hella funny, you forgot to mention HDTV not BDTV (Blu-ray TV), DirecTV HD not DirecTV BD.
h4ldol @ Oct 26th 2007 3:55PM
Interesting, yet not surprising at all. The blu-ray juggernaut cannot be stopped, even by the biggest HD DUD release EVER! Now would be the time to return those 3rd gen Toshibas... before the 30 day return limit runs out. Guess consumers really do care about 1080p/24, lossless audio, higher capacity/bandwidth, and all the other superior features of blu-ray that HD DUD fanboys are always dismissing as irrelevant to Joe 6-pack. Way to go Joe!
wysiwyg @ Oct 26th 2007 4:54PM
Does h4idol just copy and paste the same arguement over and over on any hd dvd news? nothing new there. anyways, $198 is really a sweet spot for many people who only buy from b&m stores. Plus, 5 free hd dvds in the mail. Not bad at all.
Dave @ Oct 26th 2007 5:02PM
@h4ldol
Are you a bot? HD DVD can do lossless and 1080p/24. I don't know what "other features" you're talking about--but I'm guessing they're not Picture-in-Picture or Internet-connected extras.
Kevin Murphy @ Oct 26th 2007 11:03PM
@h4ldol
You know with jerky posts like that, you really shouldn't be making statements about other people's intelligence.
Ryan P @ Oct 26th 2007 4:19PM
Netflix is my BFF. To buy movies I (or my wife) do it on impulse. It's also kind of a game to see if anyone is actually carrying HD stuff. Like I totally had to have Heroes Season 1 on release day, but no one had it on HD DVD, and I was sad that I didn't order it.
James @ Oct 26th 2007 4:07PM
See I forgot those as well. I can careless who wins the format war. I'd just love to see Sony get popped in the mouth and go down for the count for once. Sony has the money to invest we'll see how far M$ is willing to go. Its not like they are exactly broke either. The good thing is they can adapt if they lose, they can always make a BD player. If Sony loses...well... >=-D
Mickey @ Oct 26th 2007 4:15PM
Well we all know Walmart account's for a HUGE amount of Music CD, and Movie sales, so i'm absolutely sure HD-DVD came out ahead as far as wholistic sales figures go, and that's with Blu-Ray having bogof offers.
The tide has shifted, and HD-DVD is proving that the average consumer DOES prefer the format.
MegaZone @ Oct 26th 2007 10:55PM
"That ought to tell you something if Sony is a member, and the couldn't get approval of BR."
1. It is BD.
2. It says nothing, because Blu-ray Disc was never even submitted to the DVD Forum for their consideration.
Early on the companies, including Sony, that came together to develop Blu-ray decided to create their own steering organization - and that became the BDA. It was a deliberate choice to make a break from DVD and put together a new industry group. The Blu-ray Disc camp simply setup their own group and avoided the fighting within the DVD Forum over which format to go with. And they also did the honorable thing and didn't try to block HD DVD when Toshiba submitted it for a rubber stamp. Since most of the main BDA members are also DVD Forum members, they could've voted against it or tied up the process - but they didn't. They waved HD DVD through and let Toshiba do their thing.
Angus_rg @ Oct 26th 2007 4:35PM
Another point, if the DVD forum is not a standard body, why are there no Blu Ray DVD combo disks?
Eddie @ Oct 26th 2007 4:59PM
I really wish HDDVD had Fox. I love Fox Searchlight features. Maybe when PS3 has games I'll pick it up and get Sunshine, that movie would be incredible in HD.
Do you guys find the movie studios that put out pictures are becoming a bigger factor in which movies you go watch / have a propensity to like in light of the format war?
I know they are to me.
JeffDM @ Oct 26th 2007 5:54PM
"Do you guys find the movie studios that put out pictures are becoming a bigger factor in which movies you go watch / have a propensity to like in light of the format war?"
What? Usually not. Each studio does have its own branding that subtly guides what they do, but I don't think it's enough to persuade me as to which movie I'll watch. Fox Searchlight is a fine but small division in the conglomerate, other studios have similar divisions too.
Kevin Murphy @ Oct 26th 2007 5:05PM
As I said when EHD suggested that HD DVD would "win for sure", I rather doubted it given the BOGOF offer. Sounded like a set up.
However, I didn't think it would be this close, given that on a random week Blu leads by 60-40 or better. Terrible result for Sony that ONE MOVIE outweighed a half-price sale on the more popular movies in their backlist.
DVD Empire is publishing weekly figures that have favored blu-ray for months. But the latest several weeks show HD DVD pulling even. Now with $198 Toshiba players at Wally World, the price strategy is getting tested. That and Warner dropping Combos and pricing HD equal to Blu.
Porfirio Reyes @ Oct 26th 2007 8:48PM
DVDEmpire stats are for dvd's sold on their website, so their stats don't mean much in the whole scheme of things.
Kevin Murphy @ Oct 26th 2007 5:46PM
BTW, if Nielsen doesn't count Amazon or WalMart then it will NEVER count any disc I buy, and probably not any disk many people here buy. Those two companies account for a sizable portion of discs sold. Double digit market share, I'm sure.
Pretty worthless number.
I note than some stories (Home Media Mag, for example) didn't even mention the 2-for-1 sale, but played it as a straight "Transformers fails to beat Blu-ray" story. Glad to see that played it straight.
Kevin Murphy @ Oct 26th 2007 5:47PM
ummm ... "Glad to see that BEN played it straight."
Fredster @ Oct 26th 2007 6:44PM
I'm sorry Ben, i know you are not objective or any and i've still enjoyed reading your articles nevertheless, but this article is unfortunately a rock bottom performance from you. It's a shame to be honest, and i'm sorry to say that you have made this site "not fun" to read anymore as you are starting to sound less and less professional while having your own personal interests/opinions obscuring the article. C'mon Ben, you can do much better than this, ok. Looking forward till next week!