TiVo HD vs. Series3
Gallery: TiVo HD vs Series3
When we first saw the TiVo HD, we have to say, we didn't like it, but now that we're used to it, its really grown on us. From the outside, the only real difference is the front face and the glossy finish of the Series3 -- in fact they are almost the exact same physical dimensions. In reality it's only a piece of plastic on the front of the Series3 which has a brushed metal look all the way across the front, this combined with buttons on the front and the OLED display makes it a cut ahead of the TiVo HD.
Now when it comes to DVRs, looks aren't anything, but it's worth something to us -- most of all we really like looking at our TiVo's record light without wondering, "what's recording?" The one thing that we do like more about the TiVo HD, is the fact that the CableCARD slots are on the front (behind a door). This makes it much easier for the installer, since the TiVo is usually already installed by the time the cable co' has rolled the truck to your house for installation.
Remote
The Series3 remote is much much better than the TiVo HD. TiVos have always been known for its great peanut shaped remote and with the Series3 remote, they really did take it to the next level. Not only does the Series3 remote look and feel better to the touch, but it has many functional upgrades over the tried and true TiVo HD remote including; more programmable buttons, a learn mode, counter weighted (to figure out which way is which in the dark), back light, better shaped buttons, and the select button is in the center of the directional pad.
There is one questionable change and that's the new placement of the thumbs buttons; we don't use them much, but we can see an argument for having the volume and channel up/down buttons closer to the center of the remote.
We have to say, we're hard pressed to see a difference in software between the Series3 and the TiVo HD. In fact, starting with the fall update (9.1) both boxes are on the same release and worked the same. We didn't see any speed differences between the two either and every option we tested was identical -- including the less than stellar HD graphics. According to TiVo the Series3 supports integration with the most popular Home Automation system: Crestron, but since we don't have one, we can't say for sure. Neither boxes are speed daemons and both lag at times (deleting Season passes, grid guide), but it's far faster than theDirecTiVo HD we used for years.
Conclusion
There is no way we can imagine someone buying a Series3 over a TiVo HD if they have to pay MSRP -- $500 is just way to much of a premium. That being said, if we go by the street price it's something to consider. For example, using Amazon as a reference, the Series3 can be had for $349 after rebate compared to $253.88 for theTiVo HD. The Series3 is most definitely a premium unit and the additional features make it a no brainer for only $100 extra -- especially when you consider that TiVo sells it's remote for $50 and the extra 70 extra gigabytes of space you get. However, we wouldn't pay any more than $100 extra for it.
Side note: We believe that TiVo has discontinued production of the Series3 and is simply waiting for them to sell-out before releasing the another version of the TiVo HD with the same premium options as the Series3. Let use know if you have a Series3 with a manufacturer date later than July 2007.
| TiVo HD | Series3 | Comments / notes | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Price | MSRP $299 Amazon $253 |
MSRP $799 Amazon $349 |
The MSRP is way off, but the street price makes them comparable. |
| Capacity |
180 GB - 20 hours |
250 GB - 30 hours |
70GB isn't much when eSATA is an option. |
| Remote | Basic TiVo |
TiVo glow | The Series3 remote really is, much better and worth $50. |
| Looks | Clean with useful lights | Higher end, with gloss finish and brushed look. | How important are looks to you? |
| Display | LED lights | LED lights and OLED display | Knowing what's recording is a nice feature. |
| Buttons | Just format | Format & navigation | Not sure how useful, but nice to have. |
| Accessories |
Only works with TiVo brand WiFi and external drive. |
Support 3rd party WiFi adapters and external drive. | This isn't a big deal, but does limit your options. |
| Outputs | Everything you need. |
The same, with one extra set of SD outputs. |
Not sure how useful another set of SD outputs are. |
| CableCARD | Single or Multi-stream. | Single stream only, for now. | Using one M-Card can save you a few bucks a month on rental fees. |
| Included cables | Composite, Component, Power, Phone cable | Same, plus an HDMI cable. | Not a big difference, but one less thing to order. |
| THX | Nope | Certified | Who cares? |
| Home Automation | no | Crestron compatibility | A big deal for HA nuts, but not for anyone else. |
| Noise | Same | Same | We couldn't hear a difference. |
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
WallyB @ Oct 23rd 2007 4:41PM
Thanks for the comparison, Ben. I've been wondering about that for a while. Too bad my cable company is so laughably bad that I wouldn't even consider them. I'm running an HR-20, and HR-10 and one other old Hughes HDVR2.
As far as your comparison chart goes (for me):
Capacity: Maybe the only reason it's worth $100 more.
Remote: Don't use factory remotes. Don't care.
Looks: Sits in a rack behind me. Don't care.
Display: Ditto.
Buttons: Ditto.
Accessories: Support for unofficial hard drives is cool.
Outputs: Extra SD? Meh.
CableCARD: Whatever.
Included cables: Monoprice FTW. Don't care.
THX: Whatever - overrated. Don't care.
Home Automation: Don't use Crestron. Don't care.
TivoHD wins I guess.
Reid @ Oct 23rd 2007 6:01PM
I believe the Tivo HD has a newer Samsung OTA tuner chip which deals with multipath better than the one in the Tivo S3.
Craig @ Oct 23rd 2007 8:09PM
thanks for the comparison... i've been looking for something like this for a while (i commented on it in an earlier TiVo post). but i am still concerned with some of the more technical aspects... for example, is the series3 indeed upgradeable to support M-Card, or is TiVo just not sure and trying to figure it out? they sure seem to be delaying its implementation for some reason. also, are both units equally "future-proof" in terms of the hardware components?
i'd really like to know how this new high-end TiVo will spec. but maybe it won't matter, considering i won't likely buy it if it's much more than the current S3 street price.
Ben @ Oct 23rd 2007 8:13PM
The S3 is supposed to support M-cards, what I heard was that despite the chip makers claims, they can't get it to work.
Nothing is really future proof and right now neither can handle SDV which is being used to deploy new HD channels around the country. They are working with the cable industry on a deice they call a "tuning resolver" which should resolve that issue.
As for the new high end TiVo, it should cost less than the S3. I'd expect it to cost about 100 to 200 more than a TiVo HD and include a bigger drive, glow remote, OLED display etc.
Craig @ Oct 24th 2007 12:39PM
yeah, that's exactly what i'm worried about... unsubstantiated promises with no guarantee of technical feasibility. m-card probably isn't a deal-breaker, but sdv sure would be
looks like i'm getting my dad an S3 for christmas... but for myself i'll wait for the new high-end box
thanks for the help, ben
NC @ Nov 26th 2007 11:03PM
Will a HD Tivo with a M-card be able to receive SDV channels?
JimD @ Oct 23rd 2007 10:44PM
One thing you might mention:
Compatible with Satellite (DirecTV or Dish Network)?
TiVo HD - Yes
Series3 - NO!!!
Ben @ Oct 23rd 2007 10:44PM
Not sure what you mean, neither the Series3 or TiVo HD are compatible with satellite. They only work with cable or OTA.
Wilson @ Oct 23rd 2007 11:24PM
Hey Ben,
Terrific comparison. This was by far much more beneficial than wading thru the endless Tivo HD vs. S3 posts on the Tivo forum. This makes it super easy to make a solid buying decision. As usual, Engadget rocks!
AbbadonTD @ Oct 24th 2007 10:27AM
TivoHD is a standard consumer product. The S3 is a higher end piece.
The series 3 does hop into a crestron system with no pains at all - VERY seamless. better than some crestron made components. Its designed for people who do not care what the price is at all.
There is a big difference out there though. The TivoHD is designed as a replacement for your cable box. Its a cable backed system, and does NOT support sattelite (thats what the S3 is for). I can tell you though from my experience, returning my HD DVR cable box (about $20 a month in rent) and replacing with a multi tuner cableCARD (about 3 bucks a month) makes the TivoHD pay for itself.
So its really a cable vs. Sat battle in the Tivo world. They will probably (some inside info used here) release a Sat designed TivoHD as well. The current S3 will see some solid redesign to make it a more premium unit. So in final we will have:
Tivo HD - Cable, replaces box, almost a no-brainer, get one and nuts to that cable box!
Tivo HD SAT - Will probably be marketed to DirecTV customers (sorry Echostar!) and will compete with the HR-30 (comming soon...).
Tivo Series 3 - With a small redesign - bigger drive mostly - will still stay on market for home automation and bigger systems, when price is NOT an issue.
But if you have cable now - Get a TivoHD, itll save you enough money to pay for itself in less than 2 years.
Jon @ Oct 24th 2007 1:11PM
I agree with most of what you say except one thing, how is it so much more inexpensive than a cable box? Did Tivo drop the subscription fee? Last I checked HD cable box($10) + DVR service ($3) about 13 bucks a month with no upfront cost, CableCARD about ($3 a month) + Tivo monthly subscription 8.31(3 years pre-paid)to 16.95(1 year monthly). That's best case 11.31 to worst case 19.95 a month plus $250 to $300 upfront, alsmot 600 to get the 8.31 a month rate. Renting a CableCARD vs cable box I agree but when you factor in DVR functionality Tivo is still a premium product/service. Possibly saving $5 a month in two years = $120, a far cry from the $500+ you had to put out to get that $11.31 a month rate that gives you a real savings per month.
Mike @ Oct 24th 2007 6:03PM
The monthly rental cost for Tivo vs. Comcast cable box is as follows: Comcast charges $12.95 per month for their DVR service in addition to a hardware rental fee for the box. The apples to apples comparison with Tivo is $16.95 per month plus the rental of two cable cards @ $2.75 each(in order to match the dual tuner feature of the comcast DVR). Therefore the recurring monthly DVR fee for Tivo is $22.45. This is substatially higher than the the Comcast fee of just $12.95 per month. By entering into a multi year contract and paying up front, you can lower the Tivo service fee but then this would not be a fair comparison as Comcast does not require you to enter into a multi year agreement or to pay everything up front. Even if you did pay Tivo up front for a 3 year commitment, the monthly cost for Tivo would still be greater than that for comcast ($13.81 vs. $12.95). In addition to the monthly DVR service fee you have to put up $300 to buy the Tivo box. Given that the comcast rental fee for their DVR box is $4.00 per month the payback period is 6 years and 3 months. This makes the rent vs. buy decision much more favorable for renting. I am sure the technology around DVR boxes will improve a fair amount in less than 6 years so if you are renting I am sure you will upgrade to some other set top box before the end of the payback period.
Dan @ Oct 24th 2007 12:45PM
was there a difference quality in the picture between the two units?
Ben @ Oct 24th 2007 12:45PM
No, the PQ and AQ was the same on both units.
Brian @ Oct 24th 2007 12:51PM
Are there differences in services like Tivo2Go and Unbox integration?
For some reason, I was thinking only the S3 had Tivo2Go?
I'm looking at switching to DirecTV, so a clarification about compatibility with satellite would be nice. There seems to be a disagreement in the comments.
Ben @ Oct 24th 2007 12:53PM
The Series3 and TiVo HD, both support TiVoToGo and Unbox. Neither of them work with DirecTV. There is only one HD TiVo that works with DirecTV, sometimes called a DirecTiVo, with a model number of H10-250. This model doesn't support either of these features and also doesn't support the 70 new HD channels on DirecTV.
Brian @ Oct 24th 2007 1:03PM
Well, that sucks. I was looking forward to getting rid of Comcast and getting directv and a series 3.
What about Dish Network? Are the tivo's compatible with Dish?
Ben @ Oct 24th 2007 1:05PM
No, both providers control what hardware works on their network and do not allow TiVos to access them. There are rumors that TiVo and DirecTV will do something again, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Eric Hollenbeck @ Oct 24th 2007 2:06PM
I have had the Tivo Series 3 but now that they have MRV I may add a Tivo HD so that I can watch shows in multiple rooms. When the Crestron module finally does come out and I have both DVRs I will let you know if it works on both tivo HD and Series 3. I am guessing yes since they both have the same software anyway.
emck @ Oct 25th 2007 9:51AM
does anyone know what new features the new series 3 will have and when it is coming out?
Ronald H. Sell @ Nov 5th 2007 10:21PM
I was so outraged a few years ago when Directv announced they were dumping TIVO. It was a marriage made in heaven. The number one satellite tv provider & the number one DVR software.
My company installs the new Directv H-20 HD series DVR & they are no comparison to the HR10-250 HD DirecTivo. I personally will not swap my DirecTivo's for the new DirecTV Scrap DVR... I still have a 3rd HR10-250 w/ twin 750 gig drives brand new in the box. I can just hear them scream when I call to activate it... I live in the middle of 4 major broadcast markets w/60+ OTA channels. We watch OTA 90% of the time. As long as Directv keeps dumping the TIVO data nightly I plan to keep my DirecTivo's under lock & key...
jwc @ Nov 25th 2007 6:25PM
I have heard of a new cable card technology, "Open Cable", that is bi-directional. So a device that used this new card would be able to access Movies on Demand and any all other features of a cable company's box. Does anyone know if either of these Tivo's work with this technology? Note, I am not asking about multi-stream, but rather bi-directional communication. THANKS!
Ben @ Nov 25th 2007 6:26PM
TiVos are not Open Cable devices. In fact, there aren't any 3rd party Open Cables devices. We do hope to see some at CES in January.
Steve @ Nov 27th 2007 12:18PM
Not sure why there's no mention of external hard drives. Apparently you can use many different drives with the S3 (because of a hardware loophole that Tivo has thus far agreed not to remedy), but you're restricted to the official Tivo-approved drive with the HD.
Otto @ Nov 28th 2007 4:34PM
If you are not concerned with a HD Tivo you can get a Series 2 Tivo (not HD)with built in DVD burner from www.weaknees.com they have refurbished units and new units for as little as $50.00 and HUMAX brand Tivos are still eligible for LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION OF $399.00. I have purchased a 120hr upgrade for my SONY Tivo SVR2000 from them, it works great and also a THUMAX Tivo with built in DVD Burner and lifetime service. Can't beat it! I'll get an HD one when I can buy a huge LCD HD TV till then the 3 Tivos I have with lifetime service are great and my first Sony Tivo (purchased 2001) has already saved me more than $780.oo in rental fees since I first got it.
Loban @ Dec 17th 2007 5:02PM
Who actually uses the factory remotes that come with audio / video electronics? This should never be a factor in making a purchase decision.
Harmony Remote FTW!!!
Rick wilson @ Dec 17th 2007 8:54PM
So I've been a ReplayTV guy for many a year, but recently tried this "TivoHD" to be able to scrub HD shows. Am I missing the point, or is Tivo the worst designed software from a usability standpoint ever?? I thought this was suppose to be simple and advanced?
A tiny example of frustration is when watching a recorded program then wanting to look at what else you have on the DVR during boring scenes you hit the "Tivo" button, which stops playing your show (so you no longer get to skip boring scenes or commercials by looking at what else you have recorded) and brings up a menu... wait, how do you get back to the show after looking around your DVR list? You have to remember what you were watching, find it in your list of recorded shows, open the particular episode menu and hit "resume".
I'm a product developer, and Tivo can't do things the OLDEST ReplayTV can do. What in the world made these things so popular??
Ben @ Dec 17th 2007 8:57PM
You kind of lost me, but instead of hitting the TiVo button, try to hit the left button on the directional pad, this takes you to the last TiVo menu screen you were on.
This is very useful for switching between live and a recorded program. You can hit live to watch live then left followed by select to automatically pick up where you left on the recorded program.
I had a ReplayTV a few years ago as well and although it took me some time to get used to TiVos shortcuts now I do think it is great. My biggest beef is guided setup, which is great during setup, but sucks if you only want to make one change.
Rick wilson @ Dec 18th 2007 4:34PM
(For some reason this wouldn't post before... sorry if it appears several times)
Ben: Thanks for the tips. The Tivo HD is a dual tuner DVR so hitting the live tv button simply switches from one tuner to the next, and hitting select directly after hitting live tv starts recording that program.
Second on my list is there doesn't seem to be a way to shut the Tivo off... I don't mean unplug it, I mean keep the hard drive from buffering EVERYTHING 24/7. This will no doubt cause the HDD to just die earlier than normal. If you put the Tivo into Standby it still buffers everything on both Tuners. This is a huge problem that ReplayTV didn't have (it had a power button, but still recorded shows, just didn't buffer live shows).
I will look into shortcuts since these seem to help the overwhelming lack of usability of the general Tivo software.
Ben @ Dec 18th 2007 4:40PM
Yeah if you're watching live TV then hitting the button switches tuners (which has a few cool tricks itself like pausing live TV on the other tuner).
But if you are watching a recording and hit live TV it takes you to a tuner, then hit left and select and it takes you back to whatever you were watching.
No way to turn off the buffers, which is lame and is obviously a design decision, luckily today's drives are better than they used to be (not perfect) and as long as you have TiVo service it's under warranty (exchange fee applies, plus no backup/restore)
Don't get me wrong, Replay had some great features and I agree it is overall better than TiVo, just sucks that they killed it.
Bryan @ Dec 19th 2007 4:25PM
Seeing no huge difference, I picked up an open box S3 today for $359.99. It hadn't even been used. I qualify for the $200 rebate as well. $159.99 for an S3 Tivo was just too good to pass up. That and the Lifetime service for $399. It was definitely an early Christmas present for myself!
I'm looking forward to seeing the titles of the shows it is recording.
justaJ0e @ Dec 28th 2007 8:49AM
Hi Ben.
I was curious about the lifetime service.
Are you saying that this is available on TiVo HD units you buy from a reseller (like "Best Buy")? I thought I had to buy the DVR through TiVo to get that service.
Ben @ Dec 28th 2007 8:51AM
I'm not sure how that works, but I'm pretty sure lifetime is available on both HD units.
That being said, I'm not sure the Lifetime is worth the money, but I guess it really comes down to resale value, as I don't expect to keep a TiVo for more than 4 years.
Matthew @ Jan 14th 2008 12:39PM
Any news to the discontinuation of the Series 3? I currently have 2 DirecTiVo's and am eagerly awaiting my purchase of 2 Series 3's, but am concerned now that they are sold out wondering if a newer one is coming out. With the rebate expiring in less than 2 weeks, and very few places left that have any stock, I need to decide quickly. If anyone knows anything, please comment!