Just say no to stretch-o-vision

by Ben Drawbaugh posted Oct 5th 2007 at 3:50PM

This issue never stops bothering us, and every time a new HD channel is launched and they decide to try and alter their non HD content to make it look more like HD; it makes us sick -- literally. While local stations have been doing this for years, the original national so called HD channel to do it was ESPN HD. After years of complaints and ridicule from their peers, they finally wised up and added side bars. Unfortunately, other networks can't learn from their mistake and now we have a whole slew of channels bringing us hours of stretch-o-vision everyday . The reason to not stretch is very simple; every TV and HD STB made today has it's own stretch/zoom modes, so if your viewers want to watch 4:3 content in it's altered state, they can. But when you stretch on your end, there's no way for anyone to unstretch it -- especially when a network uses advanced non-liner stretches with a taste of zoom. To make things worse, many times they mark this content as HD in the guide, almost as if they think that just because they upconvert/crop/stretch SD, that makes it HD -- hey guys you're not fooling anyone. Here's the list of offenders, click thorough to the read links for details.

TNT HD
TBS HD
A&E HD
History Channel HD
Discovery Channel HD
The Learning Channel HD
Animal Planet HD
Science Channel HD

[Via DBSTalk]

Filed under: Industry, New content

Tags: Stretch-o-vision

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

Highest Ranked

Dave @ Oct 5th 2007 4:01PM

"hey guys you're not fooling anyone"

The problem is that they ARE fooling TONS of people. Joe Smith who bought his HD set at wal-mart has no clue what real HD is... I would hazard a guess that more than 50% of HD set owners are fooled and assume that if it fills the screen, it's HD... and that's exactly what the networks that do it are banking in.

The difference between now and the situation with ESPN is timing. Back then, owners of HD sets were a huge minority and if they plinked down the huge $ on a set, they knew what they were doing. Today, anyone with a few hundred dollars can pick up a 720p screen and not have a clue what they are doing.

Dave

Highest Ranked

chris @ Oct 5th 2007 10:19PM

I totally agree, my neighbor, my co-worker and my wife seem to have no problem watching strech-o-vision. Even the DirecTV "technician" (who hardly deserved such respect) that setup my hr20 seemed to think that i'd prefer to watch everything stretched... I cant imagine how many homes he setup that way and they just assume thats how things are supposed to look. My suspicion is that people are being led to believe that widescreen == HD and therefore if you make everything widescreen, everything becomes HD.

Highly Ranked

Alex @ Oct 5th 2007 4:08PM

I can't eloquently put it properly, but stretch- and zoom-o-vision annoys the living hell out of me. We just got TBS-HD and CW-HD and they do it with all the SD programming. WTF, why even bother? At least give me the option!

Neutral

shootnstr8 @ Oct 7th 2007 10:40AM

If most everything is shot in widescreen why change it to begin with? Do I have to think of everything?

Neutral

uagent @ Oct 5th 2007 6:31PM

Unfortunately, this isn't the case. In film, yes, most 35mm film is in a widescreen format. However, if it's simply recorded to tape (as most TV shows are, since it's a heckuva lot cheaper to film and edit), then it's usually 4:3 unless filmed in HD.

Personally, when available, I *usually* use the option to stretch 4:3 content. It's just not noticeable on shows like Colbert Report. Of course there are huge exceptions, like the screencap above, but I find it rather humorous that people rally around 16:9 as the be-all end-all of human existence, when widescreen is merely just the result of film manufacturers attempting to save money (they squashed the vertical aspect since frames are connected vertically in order to fit more frames/time in a smaller amount of film). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for higher resolution images, and for choice, but coming from a more PC-oriented than TV-oriented background, my 720p tv is a step down for PC gaming from my 17" monitor, though it's nice to sit across the room and play.

Highly Ranked

Jeff N. @ Oct 5th 2007 4:45PM

I took one look at TBS-HD and thought what kind of crap is this. It looks awful. And they play rereuns of Everybody Loves Raymond stretched when the shows were in HD.
TNT shows NYPD Blue rereuns that were filmed in 16:9 Widescreen HD, but they show the SD version upsampled stretched. What's with that???

Highly Ranked

DarkRogue @ Oct 5th 2007 5:09PM

I prefer to just have it interpolated and left with sidebars or if they can use the original footage, leave it back at 16:9. My thoughts exactly shootnstr8

Low Ranked

joshua @ Oct 5th 2007 5:19PM

Don't blame the networks. I work for a cable company and you won't believe the amount of irate calls we get from customers because they have side bars on their screen. The advanced user might be offended but trust me most americans arent and like stretched images. I'm tired of being cursed out by a customer who buys a brand new TV and doesn't understand or refuses to understand why there are black bars on either side of the screen.

I say a definite YES! to stretch - o - vision

Highly Ranked

Kevin Murphy @ Oct 5th 2007 6:42PM

Then set their set and DVR for default stretch. Is this so hard to understand?

Highest Ranked

GhostDoggy @ Oct 6th 2007 6:46PM

"Don't blame the networks." Why not? If they are putting standard definition content available only in 4:3 onto an HD carrier channel that is 16:9 then its their fault.

The whole idea behind setting up and turning on a high-definition channel is to watch high-definition content. Original, huh?

With each complaining telephone call should be followed up with a letter explaining, and educating ones viewership. Ooo, another original thought!

If a broadcaster, whether they be OTA (over the air), cable based, or DBS (direct by satellite) wants to advertise one thing and deliver another thing its their fault for complaining viewers.

Neutral

phybertek @ Oct 5th 2007 5:26PM

OMG this topic makes me laugh at all the times customers called me when I worked for Verizon FIOS. They would call me up yelling that there were black bars on the left and right and I would be like thats because they are taking SD 4:3 programming and trying to stretch it to HD 16:9 and you lose 1/3 the picture but they would still yell at me till I showed them how to stretch it, which is hideous. The term is a wrapper putting 4:3 on 16:9 with black bars on the side. When it is 4:3 and stretched from the provider as stated above, u can't even unstretch it which is worse. Customers would say when I had it would fill up the whole screen and feel if it isn't filling the screen they are getting ripped off. Anybody who has worked in FIOSTV or is working in FIOSTV is probably rolling their eyes at this column hahahaa

Neutral

Alex @ Oct 5th 2007 5:38PM

CSRs should just inform their customers to read the manual to their TV, don't all HD displays from the last few years have a stretch and zoom function????

Highly Ranked

omoks @ Oct 5th 2007 7:49PM

Like I've said till you've worked in the business, you really have no idea. Most customer do not read TV manuals. We literaly have to show/tell customers how to turn on their TVs. A lot of stuff seem logical but think of it this way. If you are smart enough to post on Engadget you probably know your way around. A lot of customers call their cable company even when they have no power in their home. "I have no power in my home right now but my TV won't come on". It might sound funny to you but this is the level of literacy in the US.

Highest Ranked

Big Sam @ Oct 5th 2007 5:46PM

This just reaffirms my opinion that most people are stupid. Anyone who likes watching stretched content needs to give their HDTV to someone who can appreciate it.

Highly Ranked

Big Sam @ Oct 5th 2007 5:47PM

I don't like my content stretched and I don't like my movies cropped.

Highly Ranked

CharlieX @ Oct 5th 2007 6:00PM

Agreed. We can hoot and scream and stomp all we want in gadget land. But Americans are stupid. This will never change. So we have to suffer the collective stupidity of our proud and educated and technically proficient countrymen.

ah. fridays.

Neutral

Ben @ Oct 5th 2007 6:55PM

ESPN HD changed, no reason to think everyone else won't either.

Neutral

lucyfan62 @ Oct 5th 2007 6:20PM

I have a Sanyo HDTV and I have a button on the remote marked PIXSHAPE. I can choose between Normal (4:3), Full (16:9) and Zoom 1 and Zoom 2. If I watch a stretched show, all I have to do is switch to Normal or Zoom 1 (Zoom 2 ends up cutting off too much picture information) to view the image as it should be. Yeah, it's a hassle to have to keep switching my aspect ratios, but at least I am able to alter the video image to the proper ratio (with the black bars on each side). I have my DVR set to Native, so it automatically adjusts the image to what is being broadcast, then I do the rest with the TV if needed.

Lowest Ranked

crazyblackman @ Oct 6th 2007 2:49AM

A Sanyo? Gee whiz. Only place you can get those anymore is Wallyworld. Hope the box didn't have the seal broken. Definitely a hdtv for the garage viewer. Honesty is NOT always the best policy.

Neutral

Brian @ Oct 5th 2007 6:36PM

Despite protestations to the contrary, there are NO right and wrong answers here. The networks that stretch are right; the networks that don't stretch are right. There aren't enough people on either side of this issue to have their way universally prevail over the other, and there aren't enough people on either side of this issue for networks to have only one of the two options definitively better than the other.

Neutral

Kevin Murphy @ Oct 5th 2007 6:39PM

Brian--

That poll says different.

Highly Ranked

Kevin Murphy @ Oct 5th 2007 6:38PM

It goes like this:

People with 4:3 SD sets hate letterboxing, expecially on DVDs. Their sets are too small and low-rez to start with, and they begrudge the lost image area.

Then they go out and buy a 16:9 set, thinking FINALLY no letterboxing. And they get SD upconverts with sidebars and they think "WTF???" and get all irate. They should be irate at SD being passed off as HD on HD channels, but no, they just know that they've got those damn bars again.

Pause now to consider what they think about windowboxing, which the stations probably ought to zoom.

In any event, they get the message by and by, and become sophisticated HD TV viewers. But it's the irate viewer that the stations hear from. And unfortunately, these are the folks least likely to know how to adjust THEIR set.

The only way to get the station's attention, then, is to be even more irate about stretch. Or worse, uncorrectable things like vertical crop, or the compromise vertical-crop-and-stretch which some locals do.

Neutral

uagent @ Oct 5th 2007 6:47PM

"They should be irate at SD being passed off as HD on HD channels, but no, they just know that they've got those damn bars again."

Amen to that, man. Perhaps we, as HD viewers, instead of attacking Joe Six Pack, should focus our outrage at the lack of true HD available. I mean, how often is "ESPNHD" actually *IN* HD? Any time I've seen it at a bar or restaurant, it's got the spiffy "ESPNHD" bars on the side. Y'know, 'cuz THAT'S worth $10-30 more a month, right? This includes during games, they'll still have it.

Neutral

Brian @ Oct 5th 2007 8:13PM

The poll is an unscientific review of the responses of a non-normalized sampling -- almost meaningless with respect to networks which are in business to provide programming to the *mass-market*.

Neutral

joshua @ Oct 5th 2007 7:45PM

You are a typical customer. Did you read my post. I said they don't understand. Most customers don't want their DCT to stretch their images. They just want it to fill by default. Don't try to comprehend what I am saying. I am in the business of dealing with people. What may sound like common sense to you is not to others.

Neutral

Kevin Murphy @ Oct 5th 2007 8:35PM

Hmm, they want it to detect broadcast black bars and fill? Good luck with that. The thing is, they will stop wanting it once they see real HD for a while. And then they'll be upset you for that, too.

Neutral

Kevin Murphy @ Oct 5th 2007 9:14PM

Perhaps, but it is the overwhelming preference of sophisticated HD owners. And most people who watch an HD set with real HD for any length of time prefer not to make a mediocre picture worse.

Question: if everyone wants stretched video so badly, why are NO 4x3 TV series DVDs stretched? Should there be a stretched version for HDTVs, like there's a full-frame version for old TVs.

Actually, I don't think people are all that stupid, just that they are accustomed to certain things, and will become accustomed to other things in time. Besides, the real problem is networks pretending to be HD, which aren't.

Reminds me of the lady I used to do business with in the 90's. She couldn't stand email, and wanted to get everything by fax.

Neutral

Ben @ Oct 5th 2007 10:59PM

My Pioneer plasma can automatically 4:3 and stretch. It works good too.

Neutral

joe1234 @ Oct 5th 2007 9:47PM

The Mexican HD Channels, Yes Mexico has HD, that I watch from El Paso, TX, the Border with Juarez ,Mexico, do this Too. They stretch shows that Aren't HD, and TV Azteca used to crop shows too. I turn it off as soon as I see it, I push the Aspect Button, and Change it to 4:3. The worse Part About Stretch-O-Vision is that it makes me Dizzy, it really does, I think I may have slight Motion sickness, not to the severe point where it makes someone throw up, it just makes me Dizzy. Yet for some reason motion, when there is Stretch-O-Vision makes me Dizzy, If I turn it off I'm no longer Dizzy, no matter how much movement there is. Also Televisa does the Stretch-O-Vision, but they do something even worse, they show programs, that people know Were Filmed In HD, like the New Telenovela Pasi�n in Stretch-O-Vision. These Mexican HD channels are relatively new, 2 years old at most, and I think that's why they do it.
I'm sure some of these Cable Networks are doing this as well because they're new. They may have also done a test showing of the HD Channel, were they invited random people to watch the HD Channel, and they got a lot of Joe Six Packs, and Jane Six Packs, who told them to turn on the Stretch-O-Vision. Probably only 10-20% of the Test Audience Told them to turn off the stretching. They took these numbers and they decided to Stretch.
We may not want to admit it, but all Joe Six Pack Sees is that his HDTV is missing part of the picture. He doesn't know he is Seeing something in it's Original Aspect Ratio, he may not even know what an Aspect Ratio is, He may even think his HDTV is broken. He writes the Network or calls them, and tells them to fill the Screen, What is worse is that these networks listen to them instead of telling them, "Listen Sir, the reason YOU ARE seeing those BLACK BARS is that the SHOW is NOT in HD". The network is Afraid that Joe Six Pack will Say, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN LAW AND ORDER ISN'T IN HD, I SEE IN HD ALL THE TIME ON NBC, HOW COME TNT DOESN'T BUY IT IN HD". Then TNT will tell him that they need and HD Pathfinder server to show Law and Order In HD, which is true. Of course Joe Six Pack has no Idea what this guy from TNT just told him he will probably think he's lying, then He'll say, "What the Heck did you just say, I think you're lying, you made that up, YOU CHEAPOS DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR THE HD,JUST PAY FOR IT YOU BASTARDS" then he will hang up.
Even though Joe Six Pack may not know a lot about HDTV or computers, he does know the basics, like that he is missing part of the Picture on his new HDTV that he payed possible thousands of Dollars for, especially if it's a big screen. Like I said at first he won't know why part of the picture is missing, but when he finds out the real reason why it's missing he will be Super Ticked. he will call the Cable Company or write them and he will tell all his friends about hat the guy at TNT told him. Then he will convince them to write TNT and the Cable Company. This is the Real reason that TNT really stretches it's SD content to hide the Fact That it isn't it HD. They prefer to get complaints from people who don't like Stretching and People who have realized why they stretch, that deal with Joe Six Pack, in this Imaginary Scenario especially if he's A TNT Fan. They know that if they turned off The Stretch-O-Vision Everyone who watches "TNT HD" will eventually know that the reason the Black bars are there is, because a show isn't in HD. They're trying to hide the Fact that TNT HD doesn't have an HD Pathfinder Server, or they're not buying Programs in HD, if the do have one. They know the HD audience is small, but They're only looking at a percentage. If 50 Million People watch TNT or TNT HD every year, and 10 to 20 Percent of those People Watch The HD Channel, that's 5-10 Million who would eventually find out that Black bar shows aren't in HD If they turn they Turn off the Stretch-O-Vision. This is the reason why they don't turn it of they know that once the HD audience knows the real meaning of the black the will be Ticked, and the will have to Deal with the the PR Nightmare that will Follow.
I really don't agree with TNT, TBS and other Networks that do this, they are trying to hide their own sleaze and Cheapness. Sure an HD Pathfinder server may cost 10's of thousands of dollars, or more,but it's a one time investment, for 1 network that sends a feed to a satellite. It's not like they have a thousand TV Stations that each need an HD pathfinder server, they have one Cable Network that needs an HD pathfinder Server. Sheesh!!! TNT, TBS, and other stations on the list, You expect People to Believe that with all the money you make a year you can't afford to Buy an HD pathfinder server right now. Yeah right!!!!! You choose not to, how nice.

Neutral

omoks @ Oct 5th 2007 11:31PM

Nice analogy but it's simpler than that. Most of the people that call in regarding bars are doctors and lawyers highly educated Americans. These people don't want to learn or know what; their logic is simple
"I paid 3gs for this TV. I expect to get what I paid for"

Anyway, most people that call customer service are under the impression that they know more than the reps. I feel sorry for the cable repair reps because I used to work in that department.

Explaining to a customer that they can fill the screen with the aspect ratio button on their remote will/and always makes them irate. Why? Well their logic like stated above is the same. I don't want to have to do anything for what I paid so much money for.

Of course! You can also blame the TV manufacturers since they make no effort to educate their buyers on HD. Pretty much once you are out of the store you are on your own.

Neutral

Kevin Murphy @ Oct 6th 2007 12:00AM

@Ben: My TV will detect and default-format an SD signal, but not a 4:3 signal embedded into 16:9 HD. I know that there is an HDTV flag for 4:3, but I'm not sure if it is reliably used. Of course, I can change any format to any other format SD or HD, but I'd prefer not to have it change every channel. No one wants to need two remotes to channel surf.

@omoks: Correct about blaming it on IQ. It's inexperience that's the issue. And who says the stores CAN educate?

@many others: None of the major networks stretch anymore, at least nationally. If NBCHD has a 4:3 commercial run in stretch I guarantee someone gets written up or fired. If the common man is all fired up over this, how come they don't revolt over network 4:3 content? What they REALLY want is consistency, and right now that means "don't stretch."

Neutral

Ben @ Oct 6th 2007 9:22AM

Kevin,
Mine does that too, but even when I'm watching an HD program and the commercials are SD it stretches the commercials and turns it off for the HD program. I've never seen the feature before either, but it's called "Auto Size" on my TV. I hate watching stretched content but my old CRT had burn in when a relative visited and watch 4:3 content all week, so I figure I'd leave it on.

Neutral

mike d @ Oct 6th 2007 12:47AM

@omoks, I get your point, and I agree to a certain extent...but what it really boils down to is that these people may have a high IQ, and may be "respected professionals," but as consumers they're dumb. If you're dropping 3,000+ on an HDTV, even if that's chump change for you, you should know what you're getting. You're kind of a dufus if you think that everything will magically fit your screen.

All of this business about black bars makes me think of the transition from full 4:3 VHS tapes to widescreen DVDs (which was a huge and surprising victory for videophiles). I would hear people complain to no end about those pesky bars--though really, calling them black bars is a misnomer; it implies that they're impeding part of the screen, whereas they simply represent the discrepancy between the source material and the display.

And that, to me, is a simple notion, and I don't understand what people don't get about it. If you watch a SD broadcast on a widescreen HDTV, of course it won't fill up the screen. Why should it? To me, it's no different than if someone bought an 8x10 frame and put a 5x7 photo in it, followed by them calling up the frame manufacturer or the photo developer or what have you and complaining about the discrepancy. You don't have to be a techno geek to understand that.

Neutral

Mexigun @ Oct 6th 2007 1:23AM

Right on....Just say NO!!

Peace,
Mexigun

Highly Ranked

Michael @ Oct 8th 2007 10:17PM

Hey crazyblackman! You can shut your trap now. What gives you the right to criticize lucy's choice of HDTV? Why the hell do you think there are so many different brands and so many different products out there? Because we all have unique tastes, needs, disposable incomes, etc! We're all different, jerk!

Lucy, I see your posts here and on other lists. Keep posting because we're all entitled to our opinions and frankly, I think most of us are a heck of a lot more like you than we are to crazyblackman.

As for the whole stretch vs zoom controversy, I want to see my shows the way they were intended for broadcast. I watch my SD programming with black bars just exactly the same as I watch my 2.35:1 letterbox movies. The bars just happen to be on the ends instead of on the top and bottom. The problem is with the original broadcast from the station feeds. When I receive an HD (meaning a 16:9) broadcast, my set is set to show all programming as a native feed image. That means I cannot change the aspect ratio myself since the network feed is stretched before it hits my screen. My choice at that point is to change over to a non-HD broadcast signal (I'm on DirecTV) and then watch it as a crappy res 4:3 version of the show BUT it's at least in the original aspect ratio. Some of the new HD channels (say, The Weather Channel for instance) are broadcasting a nice HD picture but it isn't widescreen yet. I'd like to see all the stations follow the way ESPN does it and use some sort of ad logo for their channel so they at least give a reasonable compromise both ways.

In the end, its got to be the viewership demanding the changes however. Hopefully, once the government mandate goes into effect and everyone has to upgrade at least their source, more people will figure out what they are missing and make the switch to a better picture at the same time they upgrade the broadcasts.

Neutral

Faysal @ Oct 7th 2007 1:43PM

I don't get it.What's wrong with strech-o-vision? What does it do to the picture besides upconverting it to an HD resolution?

Neutral

Camperton @ Oct 8th 2007 5:17AM

Faysal -- the difference is between zooming in on an image to fill the frame, and stretching it to the right and left to fill the frame. Zoom is in essence "upscaling" whereas stretching is distorting the image to fill the empty space.

Neutral

Camperton @ Oct 8th 2007 5:17AM

Neutral

Miggity @ Oct 23rd 2007 12:29PM

Wow! Really?

Neutral

EEL @ Oct 6th 2007 1:36PM

Ah, nothing like being the victim of other people's ignorance, huh? Welcome to America!

Neutral

David @ Oct 6th 2007 4:51PM

PBS-HD also does this.

People who stretch their content because "it doesn't fit the tv" should get over it. It's like being mad because your tv doesn't fit the wall behind it.

Neutral

JeffDM @ Oct 7th 2007 1:42AM

Even supposedly savvy people want their image fill the entire screen. I hate that. People don't mind cropping or stretching the video, the screen HAS to be filled or else something is just wrong. I think it's just plain amazing that people will see images and objects that are 33% wider and not be bothered by it. Why does the moon look like an egg and not be noticed for pete's sake? Does that make their spouse seem thin as a result? Even in the HD media forums, I see people complaining that their movies don't come pre-cropped, like they want the studio to do that work for them.

Neutral

Camperton @ Oct 8th 2007 5:13AM

uagent -- "widescreen is merely just the result of film manufacturers attempting to save money (they squashed the vertical aspect since frames are connected vertically in order to fit more frames/time in a smaller amount of film)".

This statement is flat out wrong in so many ways I don't even know where to begin.

Neutral

gerphimum @ Dec 26th 2007 11:09AM

Well, I'll start then. If you pay attention for about 2 seconds, you'll notice that human vision is wide. Why, you ask? Well, you have 2 eyes. 16:9 and other wider aspect ratios are simply more natural for the viewer and thus more enjoyable (because it seems more real).

Neutral

locke6854 @ Dec 23rd 2007 8:19AM

i thought that too... until i did some research. Turns out that the widescreen look of film was intentional- to mimic human eyesight, considering our eyes are side by side, and we have wider peripheral vision with brows/nose blocking the upper and lower vision. Its natural that they'd go with a wider-than-tall image.

Neutral

lucyfan62 @ Oct 11th 2007 10:19PM

Thank you! I don't know why I'm being attacked for my choice of TV. It was affordable and it has a better picture than my parents' LCD! And besides, if it can correct the stretch-o-vision problem with the press of a button, then it can't be all bad!

Neutral

Miggity @ Oct 23rd 2007 12:29PM

Stretching an image "to fill your screen" is for idiots. Yes thats right.

Neutral

Galley @ Nov 14th 2007 7:08PM

There's an even better version of this site at http://www.digitalcaffeine.com/directv/hd/

Neutral

Toonman @ Nov 17th 2007 5:50PM

Stretch-o-vision doesn't seem that bad after you start to notice the burn-in from the black bars. Too many (more like all of them) children's shows still aren't in high def, and the kid monopolizes the TV pretty much all day long.

Neutral

Justin @ Dec 12th 2007 3:27PM

I work for a cable company and it drives me crazy when people complain because there are grey bars on the sides of their analog channels... I tell them that is the way it SHOULD be since it is not in HD format... I made a handout for every customer who upgrades to HD that explains how everything should look to save me the hassle later.

8 out of 10 customers will complain about not being "full screen" (stretched) b/c they are not getting all the inches out of their television... The other two people complain because we added TBS-HD and they have not played one thing in true HD format since the MLB Playoffs... Not even the shows TBS made! Frank TV and House of Payne... What a waste of bandwith that we are in bad need for.

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