A critical look at DVD / HD DVD combo discs
Riding on the coattails of the 51GB HD DVD announcement was the approval of the dual-layer DVD / HD DVD combo disc format. These combo discs have been a feature of a several releases, but the linked article provides a good analysis of serious challenges the format faces. The bottom line is this -- for almost everyone, one of those sides goes largely unused. If you have a HD DVD player, the DVD side will only see duty in secondary applications. And if you don't have a HD DVD player, that HD side isn't going to see any use at all. And with the format war, average consumers don't value future compatibility. This wouldn't be a significant issue if there were no additional cost associated with the combo disc. But there is, and that kills the deal. There's plenty more to the critique, so check out the link if you're inclined.EDIT: The 51GB HD DVD approval included the single sided combo format, not the dual-sided one currently used in several releases. - Thanks, Kevin!
Filed under: HD DVD, Other formats
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Sean @ Sep 22nd 2007 11:05AM
Well if you don't own a HD-DVD player yet, you're right, there is no point to buying the combo disc, for the same reason there is not much value in re-buying dvd's on HD-DVD: Standard dvd, though not spectacular, is entirely watchable on an HDTV.
But if you do own an HD-DVD player, it's still nice be able to be able to rip the standard dvd to your pc, or to backup the disc, or to play in a portable dvd player. Small-screen dvd players will be the last things to go HD because there just isn't much noticeable difference between 480 lines of resolution and 720 lines of resolution at those screen sizes. And I don't see mainstream laptops having included hd-dvd drives for another couple years.
Also, I don't think it's useful comparing the combo disc price to the standard dvd price. The more useful comparison is to the blu ray price. Right now, for "300" the DVD/HD-DVD combo disc is $4 more than the blu ray. HD format war aside, is the having the standard DVD worth $4?
Kumar @ Sep 22nd 2007 11:23AM
"For the Combo strategy to have any chance with real consumers, the discs would have to be priced the same as regular DVDs, or the studios would have to discontinue DVD-only discs altogether, and only issue Combos for new releases, priced attractively."
Pretty much says it all. If Tosh were to convince the studios in their camp to put new releases ALL in combo format for the same price as regular dvd.... I agree about not releasing catalog titles in combo, seems obvious now, but people upgrading their library of dvds don't need another copy in red dvd on the back of their hd dvd copy.
GamerGuyX @ Sep 22nd 2007 11:36AM
I support both High-Def formats but one: HD DVD/DVD combo discs. I don't like the idea of an inferior version of my movie being glued onto the backside of my HD media (that I will never use). I buy High-Def movies for just that - High-Def movies. Price is also NOT a factor. I happily import HD movies at a price well over that of combo discs. Also, combo discs having no disc art may be a minor quirk to some, but it also makes my movies look like cheap bootleg, DVD-rips.
Kevin Murphy @ Sep 22nd 2007 11:47AM
The linked article completely ignores the most common use of the Combo disks -- households with children and a mixture of HD and SD equipment. It's almost as if the author wasn't aware that people with different needs and situations than himself exist. "If I don't need it, no one does" could well be the title of the article.
The Engadget blurb seems to also make a mistake. The current combo format (one format on either side) is NOT the same as the recently-approved dual-layer combo format, which has both formats on ONE side and is presumably no extra cost. And certainly no confusion, since all Toshiba players (or at least A2 and later) have a setting for which layer they play if they encounter such. Since the DVD Forum approved it, one has to believe that normal DVD players also play their version automatically.
The idea of the combo format is a good one, hobbled by the extra cost and the two-side confusion. If you eliminate those issues, what's not to like? Yet another thing HD can do and BD cannot.
wysiwyg @ Sep 22nd 2007 11:51AM
It's been announced Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Combo disc will be priced the same as its Blu-ray counter part. We may start seeing this trend of reduced combo disc price in the future from WB.
Real @ Sep 22nd 2007 12:18PM
@ Engadget
The newly approved dual-layer dvd/hd-dvd disk is not the same as the combo disk that has been so far utilized by the likes of warner. The article you referenced is NOT talking about dual-layer disks. It is talking about combo disks. Big difference.
Patrick @ Sep 22nd 2007 1:07PM
There is another benefit of the combo disc. I can watch the HD DVD side, but rip the DVD side to my PC. This is nice because I don't yet have the ability to rip the HD DVD side!
Jay @ Sep 22nd 2007 2:42PM
give me jenna jameson, ines cudna and that girl from in bed with faith in hd and i buy watever format you want me to right away...
SimbaDogg @ Sep 22nd 2007 2:43PM
i think the post by nfinity and my response sums it up best...
Nfinity -
"I think that people need to understand that TL51 is really a non-issue for HD DVD Group. Triple Layer 51gb is pretty much a talking point as we've already seen that 30gb is more then enough to provide excellent (even better) picture then Blu-Ray and incredible sound. So this is really a non issue.
I personally think that TL51 might not work with all current and past genereation players but this is really a no biggie. The real thing that TL51 brings us is 3 LAYERS.
This means that we will see VERY SOON a 2 layer HD DVD disc with 30gb space for hi-def movie and DVD size 3rd layer for regular DVD.
This is actually the real war ending, because it will allow all HD DVD studios to come out with day/date releases on 1 twin TL HD DVD that will play on both regular DVDs and HD DVDs without any compatibility issues or confusion HD DVD combo brings. The production of TL discs (2+1 layers) will be pretty much the same as regular DL30GB HD DVD discs which is very much affordable.
This is the real value of TL51"
SimbaDogg -
"you made some interesting points, but if you think this is the silver bullet for blu ray, i want some of the stuff you're snorting. Lets think of this 1 thing. PRICE...
I was browsing through the best buy ad because i wanted to make sure that kanye wests new cd comes out on tue, which it does. a few movies i saw were going for 19.99, movies i never heard of, but no matter...they were new releases. compare the 19.99 of a new release, to the say 34.99 of a hd dvd/blu ray new release w/ the 40+ dollars that you're going to find for a "all in one combo". You really think that people are going to go in droves to buy this? if anything i WOULDN'T buy a movie for that reason. its one of the main reasons i waited so long to buy apollo 13 on dvd, when it first came out it was almost $40.
the "trojan horse" method of including technology works if you basically include it for the same price, maybe a few bucks more. And many people here would say that the odds of getting that kind of combo disk under $40 are really slim to none. You're not going to sneak any "trojans" in people homes when they immediately see that they're spending double the price on a dvd. I've watched enough Jay Walking on the Tonight Show to know americans are stupid, but they're not that stupid."
MAK1981 @ Sep 22nd 2007 3:03PM
You can do what I do, and sell the DVD of "300", for instance, to someone without HD-DVD for $10. Both sides win :-D
d1g1ta7 @ Sep 22nd 2007 3:52PM
Might require a profit cut, but if HD DVD studios started selling ALL of their releases in combo format, i.e. no standard dvd only, then when people decide to make their first high def media player purchase, they already have the HD versions of movies available. i.e. I can pay $500 and get a HD DVD player, and have all of my movies in HD, or pay $500 for a blu-ray player and have to re-buy my movies to get them in hd.
Chaz @ Sep 22nd 2007 4:01PM
Careless/bias reporting on the part of Engadget. The linked article mentions NOTHING about the new dual-layer combo discs.... but talks about the double sided combo discs, THERE's a BIG BIG DIFFERENCE.... you bunch of biased 'tards
Nate the Prophet @ Sep 22nd 2007 11:50PM
Combo discs will KILL the HD DVD format, period!
I was at Target today, and I saw that I could be "300" on BR for $25 and on HD DVD for $35. These combo discs cost too much money! If I wanted it on DVD, I could be it for like $13...which means that I could buy the BR and the DVD for basically the same price as the HD-DVD combo thing. So what is the point of a combo disc? NOTHING!
IF they could sell the "combo" discs for the same price as the BR version of the movie, THEN they would be wielding a major advantage for their format. As it is, it's a major disadvantage.
HD-DVD had better figure this out, or they are sunk.
John Eckart @ Sep 23rd 2007 12:24AM
I wonder how often people will watch the DVD side of a combo disc on a HD DVD player.
JeffDM @ Sep 23rd 2007 9:14AM
If it's no extra cost or at most $5 more, the combo disc would be fine. I'm certainly not rebuying movies I already have on DVD except for very specific exceptions. But the combo discs would offer me the ability to play the disc in a notebook or portable DVD player. HD playing notebooks are too expensice and portable HD disc players don't seem to exist yet.
Dave @ Sep 24th 2007 5:24AM
I also think that combos are the biggest failure ever...
Alfred Poor @ Sep 24th 2007 12:43PM
Interesting discussion, but I think your time frame focus is too short. Yes, $40 for a combo DVD is too much. But it's still less than the combined cost of a red laser DVD and a blue laser DVD. I'd argue that the home buyer is not the target; it's NetFlix and Blockbuster. If they can cut their inventory in half and still cover both SD and HD formats, plus reduce the handling and service problems that come from sending the wrong format, the combo discs represent a big savings. And don't you suppose that if these services start buying this format in huge numbers, that the production costs would go down? It remains to be seen if any of this happens, but this could indeed be the tipping point for the HD DVD camp.
Griffon2k @ Oct 6th 2007 2:13PM
As an actual user of HD-DVD who uses combo disks, I can tell you, I love the idea of the combo format. My wife and I have about 5 DVD players in the house, plus the DVD playback in my PS2, original Xbox, desktops and laptops. We currently only have 1 HD-DVD player that we keep in our bedroom. We're movie people so when we decide we want to watch say Superman returns on our PCs or on the main TV we keep in the living room for guests, we can do that without the need for a separate DVD disc and case that just takes up more room.
I think that's well worth the $4-5 price difference between it and Blu-Ray.
Features and price are looking more and more to be what will decide this price war. Right now, HD-DVD offers the better deal in both categories. For instance, the $25 300 Blu-Ray disc that was talked about in comparison to the $35 HD-DVD version isn't simply missing a DVD layer, it's missing interactivity options only available on HD-DVD. If you don't have it all, the price SHOULD be cheaper.
Get it Clear @ Nov 5th 2007 4:12AM
I thinks it simple to see that the combo discs are the smartest thing that the HD DVD team has come up with. I do think that this is going to be one of the key factors in what faction wins out. I notice all the people with HD DVD players saying that they don't want both versions, Why not? The ability to play any DVD that I go out and buy on all of my media players, HD or not, is indispensible. I don't know about the rest of you but my HD DVD players is only hooked up to one TV in my house. That obviously means I'm limited to watching my new movie in one place. Theres no taking a movie to a friends house, or watching it on my laptop during business trips, or in another room. So that means I have to either buy both versions for a cost of $50, or shell out the extra $4 for a combo... I think I'll spend $4. Either way you look at it standard DVD is going to be around for a long time and having the ability to still watch these movies without buying two copies is great.
And... if you look at it from the view point of someone who doesn't yet own a HD DVD player. Being able to buy a disc now that works on you regular player... and will work in the furture and a HD DVD player, is going to save people from rebuying all those costly discs. That alone is going to give HD DVD a big push over Blu-Ray
Mark @ Nov 18th 2007 12:12PM
Personally, I don't see any problem with combo "flip-discs". They have been around forever on DVD. Some DVDs have the full-screen format version on one side and the widescreen format version on the other. Also, some TV series collections use flip discs.
I am surprised at the price premium. HD DVD claimed it costs significantly less to produce HD DVDs compared to Blu-Ray discs. However, that cost benefit is not passed on to the consumer. If the HD DVD/DVD Combo Disc was priced the same as the same movie on Blu-Ray, HD DVD would have the advantage of media backwards compatibility.
The new TWIN DVD disc format will only matter if it costs less to manufacture than the HD DVD/DVD Combo Disc. The ultimate goal should be to provide a dual-format disc at a price close to the current standard DVD price.