The definition of High Definition?
One of the reasons we love HD so much is because it's so complicated, sure that makes us uber-geeks, but we're comfortable with that. You'd think that if nothing else, the definition of High Definition would be pretty straight forward, but when PR departments get a-hold of a phrase, things have a tendency to be as clear as mud. But it isn't just PR spin, ask HD enthusiasts what the definition of HD is and you'll almost always get a different answer. Ask a few industry groups and we'd bet you still won't get a consistent response. There was a time when the CEA would allow any TV with more than 480 lines to use the HDTV logo, but these days 720p is the minimum. On top of all this, some manufacturers have adopted the term Full HD to describe 1080p. So why should we expect a big wig like Steve Jobs to get it right?In the recent Apple announcement Steve said "Turns out that HD camcorders don't have sensors that are full HD, so they produce images that are slightly lower than HD, but are still stellar. We use that res, which is close, but not quite HD. Best you can do under $10k" Even the earliest consumer HD camcorders were 1440x1080i which is almost twice as many pixels as 720p, but yet he doesn't consider it "HD". We find this interesting considering the Apple TV isn't true HD by this definition either. It's no doubt that 1080p60 is the holly grail of HD video, but saying that 1280x720 (or higher) isn't HD, is as wrong as calling HD Radio; HD Radio -- yes we have an HD Radio and love it, but it's not HD.
Filed under: Industry
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Andy @ Aug 15th 2007 2:10PM
I think he was saying that even though the cameras capture at 1440x1080, maybe the sensors aren't even strong enough to capture the full 1440x1080 pixels so maybe that 1440x1080 is actually sort of upscaled from whatever the sensors can read. If that's what he was saying, I don't know if he's right or not, I hope not, since I'm getting the Sony HVR-V1U in October, which says the sensors read at the full 1920x1080 and then are downscaled to 1440x1080 (because it is limited by the HDV format)
IBOCcrock @ Aug 15th 2007 2:17PM
"When 'HD' means 'Hardly Differentiated'"
"Names matter, folks. And the minute the powers-that-be decided to call HD radio "HD radio," they signed its death sentence."
http://www.hear2.com/2007/08/when-hd-means-h.html#comments
HD Radio is a farce !
http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/
JeffDM @ Aug 15th 2007 3:40PM
There are consumer camcorders that can see 1920x1080, such as Sony HDR-HC1 and Canon HV10 & HV20, but they can only record to 1440x1080i. Optics are a limiting factor because of the low cost, as well as the fact that they, like a lot of inexpensive cameras & camcorders, are using the Beyer matrix, each pixel is only one color, so you can get odd moir effects too. HV20 can output in 1920x1080p, but you need to capture it directly over the HDMI link rather than record to tape.
GhostDoggy @ Aug 15th 2007 7:17PM
I fail to see how the optics need to be much more resolving in resolution than the prescription glasses. If the prescription glasses were not capable of allowing me to see 1000-1100 line pairs then there is a problem.
Also, notice the 1440 instead of 1920 is on the horizontal, because this is the direction the human vision is less sensitive. Evidently, the common human isn't as sensitive to losing +25% resolution on one axis, but is very sensitive losing the same percentage on the other axis.
The General @ Aug 15th 2007 4:15PM
Not to mention that I drive a GMC 2500 HD.
I high definition pickup truck!
/joking
KH*rrigan @ Aug 15th 2007 4:27PM
What about flat-panels with completely non-HD native resolutions of 1366x768 advertised as 720p (1280x720)?
It's just a mess... and for no clear reason.
-KLH
Ben Drawbaugh @ Aug 15th 2007 4:29PM
Actually those are HD as well, and for good reason. All TVs scale (yes even LCDs, DLP, LCOS and Plasmas) and it's easier to scale to that resolution than to 1280x720.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/04/21/whats-the-deal-with-1366-x-768/
zargon @ Aug 15th 2007 4:38PM
I hate how Sony tried to make everyone think only 1080p was HD when they were getting ready to launch their PS3 and Blu-ray players. Not sure if they coined the True HD phrase, but they sure as hell beat a dead horse using it.
I also found it funny when EDTV plasma TVs started becoming available at "affordable" prices and the people that thought they had HD.
Taylor @ Aug 15th 2007 4:46PM
The use of HD is such a joke. HD Radio. You never even made the specific statement, so that everyone would understand, that it only relates to video, not audio or anything else.
A friend of mine is leaving to work in Asia. I gave him my old Panasonic miniDV camera. It's about 8 years old. He's clueless about this stuff. He pointed out to me that on the side it says "high definition". I couldn't believe it. I told him to totally disregard it and that it had nothing to do with real HD. He was worried about being able to edit it on the computer.
HD is thrown around way to much and attached to to many things. It won't be long until I walk into Best Buy and see a blender package with HD written on the side.
What a joke!
I have to mention another thing really quickly. I was watching the news this morning. They had a guy on there talking about how he invented a vacuum cleaner with ultraviolent lights on the bottom to kill mites and stuff in the carpet. He kept refering to it as ultraviolent 'technology.' WHAT TECHNOLOGY? It's a freakin' light. I changed the channel. That particular segment on the news should have been on the QHC channel, or whatever it's called.
Andrew @ Aug 15th 2007 5:36PM
Ultra-violent lights?! Sounds dangerous!
Taylor @ Aug 15th 2007 7:56PM
ah, whatever!
tobin92 @ Aug 15th 2007 6:20PM
We need a standard for sure..... I am tried of this being in 720p....That being in 1080i and that being in 1080p.
I wouldn't buy anything but 1080p today....All HD-Movie are in 1080p....It is a favorite of the film industry and not to mention easy upscaling of 1080i... Of course....Wouldn't it need double the bandwidth of 1080i?
While it maybe be convenient to have 5 standards for the TV industry....I know the consumers and manufacturers hate it.
Remember when you and everyone else watched TV watched TV at the same resolution....We need a standard picked.
JeffDM @ Aug 15th 2007 10:48PM
1080p doesn't always scale to being double the bandwidth as 1080i. It depends. 1080i60 uses more bandwidth than 1080p24, if it is interlaced from a film source, then they add duplicate fields to fill the frames. 1080p60 would be double that of 1080i60 though.
JeffDM @ Aug 15th 2007 10:42PM
I don't think the optics on glasses and cameras are that comparable. For one, the optics in camcorders seem to use several lenses in succession, the errors seem to multiply at each step. At any rate, I see some irritating color fringing on most shots captured with the affordable HD camcorders. It's still far better than SD.
Andrew @ Aug 15th 2007 6:43PM
Haha, just messing with ya. :)
Alex @ Aug 15th 2007 8:04PM
@tobin92
The standard INCLUDES 720p, 1080i, and 1080p for good reason - they are all highdef and look great. Many displays bragging about 1080p still don't process it correctly. 720p still looks better than 1080i for many fast-motion scenes (such as sports) which is the prime reason that it was insisted on being in the HD standard. Many SD broadcasts look better at 720p (for many reasons unfortunately). And anyone that has done any reading on the 1080p bullshite knows that it isn't necessary for the bulk of HighDef display owners. The bulk of broadcast and highdef video problems aren't the display standard - it is the conversion, compression, bitrates, etc...
Regardless, the brainiacs that put this together should have come up with a proprietary/licensing rights name that included 720p, 1080i, and 1080p so there wouldn't be this mess of "Full HD" "True HD" "HD Radio" et al. I guess even if this name was something like "Pwnage Video" some marketing suit would just market their product as "Ultra Total Pwnage Video".
supaneko @ Aug 15th 2007 9:29PM
Question: Did Apple ever say that Apple TV was to be HD? .............................. ?
ctgottapee @ Aug 18th 2007 2:31AM
i just have to counter the 720p comment as it is an industry propagated fallacy.
720p is not 'great' HD; it is only 240 lines more than an SD 480p DVD; 1080i offers TWICE the resolution, no way around it, that holds for theatrical content even in 1080i as you can properly stuff and decode 24p in there.
720p was pushed because it was CHEAPER, plain and simple. Panasonic wanted to make money on the broadcast side, people in the industry wanted to save it, and manufacturers wanted to churn out cheap 720p display panels that already had. whole generations of displays would not be HD unless 720p was included.
also remember that a 720p display can not 'fix' interlacing in a 1080i feed, the dominant broadcast standard.
yes, the very few with a well trained eye and a quality calibrated display can spot very minor and relatively rare interlacing issues on some interlaced displays and content, but this minor issue affecting a rare few doesn't outweight losing half of HD's potential resolution. also keep in mind it only applies to non 24p film content.
I challenge anyone, to find a 720p sports clip that looks better than a comparitive 1080i sports clip. CBS in 1080i consistently walks all over ESPN and its 720p siblings, who by the way shoot near everything with 1080p cameras anyway. 1080i always wins as it starts with double the resolution. further hampering 720p is that broadcasters can get away with starving the bit rate even further.
I also challenge you to find me a properly shot and produced 1080i clip in which you can detect and describe interlace artifacts.
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The standard INCLUDES 720p, 1080i, and 1080p for good reason - they are all highdef and look great. Many displays bragging about 1080p still don't process it correctly. 720p still looks better than 1080i for many fast-motion scenes (such as sports) which is the prime reason that it was insisted on being in the HD standard.