Universal Studio's prez smiles at the format war
We kind of doubt that many suits high up in the movie industry agrees with Universal Studio's president, Craig Kornblau, but we understand where he is coming from. While we might not go as far as Kornblau by stating the format war is "the very best thing that ever happened for consumers, retailers, and, frankly, studios" but come to think about it, we're grateful. Can you only imagine the player's prices if there wasn't any competition? There is no doubt that Sony would still be selling their first or second generation unit for close to a grand and you can bet the farm that Toshiba would not have intro'd their original player at $500. Prices have dropped for us consumers, retailers are pushing more boxes, and the studios, well, they'll make money by eventually selling you the same movie twice. Yeah, this format war has been a pain at times, but it has drove down the cost allowing more consumers to enjoy their movies in glorious high definition.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Ryan @ Aug 13th 2007 3:28PM
If the Xbox 360 would have bundled HD-DVD drives the HD format would have stood a chance. Bluray titles are getting rented out online at places like Blockbuster and Netflix at a 4 to 1 ratio, and Universal is the only one who makes for HD exclusively. This war may still have a ways to go, but as prices for the PS3 come down, Bluray seems to be the likely winner.
Ryan
mediatrending.com
rip @ Aug 13th 2007 3:46PM
I think these conclusions, while logical, are false.
When the DVD format came out, there was no relevant competing technology.
Prices for DVD players went from $1000 to $50.
There was plenty of competition. Only it wasn't from a competing format. It was from various manufacturers competing for the same DVD market.
I'd argue that people are sick and tired of format wars and next gen format adoption has been reduced by a factor of five due to unwillingness to be stuck with the next betamax...
h0mi @ Aug 13th 2007 4:03PM
Divx. Not the codec, but the self destructing optical disc format.
h0mi @ Aug 13th 2007 4:03PM
Divx. not the codec but the self-destructing optical disc format
Elliott @ Aug 14th 2007 9:54AM
I agree. We would "win" not by having Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD, but by having Brand X blu-ray vs. brand y blu-ray (or Brand x HD-DVD vs. Brand y HD-DVD).
I finally took the plunge because I couldn't stand not using my TV to the fullest extent, but I would have bought either system much sooner if it were the only option.
FrankTheCrank @ Aug 13th 2007 4:13PM
The data suggest that HD-DVD is not doing as good as Bluray and if this is correct it will have a very hard time after XMAS 07. I think they have one last holiday season left.
I see Universal jumping ship by Fall08.
tlarkin79 @ Aug 13th 2007 4:20PM
It's not saving me any money. To get all my movies in HD I have to buy an HD DVD Player and a Blu-Ray Player because the studios won't support both formats. That's not about consumer choice, that's the consumer getting screwed into having to invest in both and then buy it again when one format is finally agreed on and the other becomes obsolete.
Consumer choice would be making all HD movies available for both platforms. That would be a real win for us.
Kumar @ Aug 13th 2007 5:21PM
Unless you've got a giant 1080p set, you probably wont' see much difference between HD and good upconverters.
I've got a decent 720p sony projection deal, and they look about the same (toshiba hd-d2 from costco). That's part of the problem though, that there ISN'T much difference, at least not enough to replace my collection with HD dvds.
I've been netflixing it anyway ever since I decided I didn't need to define myself by the dust collecting dvd library on the shelf.
Matt Burns @ Aug 13th 2007 4:23PM
TrentD - I do not believe that I, nor the originating source, took sides at all. In fact, the post simply states that the format war is essentially good and therefore, how could one take a side and maintain the initial argument by favoring one over the other?
Oh and for the record, I am a strong supporter of HD DVD...just ask Ben.
TrentD @ Aug 13th 2007 5:00PM
I don't think you took a side in what you wrote, but I do believe the article is clearly biased (and obviously comes from a biased source).
Tim @ Aug 13th 2007 4:54PM
This really sucks! I have the HD-DVD 360 add on and it not looking good. I really like features on the HD-DVD. The picture quality is mind blowing. I hate Sony and I don't want a blo-ray. It looks like Sony may when this round. I think I am going to put the add on ebay before it is to late. I really don't want to give up my Matrix trilogy.
FrankTheCrank @ Aug 13th 2007 7:12PM
Dude..you don't have to give up your HD-DVD's. I have a stack of Laserdiscs sitting on a shelf. My suggestion, sell before the market drops.
Matt Brundage @ Aug 13th 2007 5:01PM
but it has drove down the cost
make that it has driven...
Mike @ Aug 13th 2007 5:05PM
My first VCR (RCA Selectavision) cost me $1000. My first Laser Disc (Pioneer) cost me $900. My first DVD player (Toshiba) cost $700. My first HD DVD and first Blu-Ray cost $500 each. There's a definite trend there, and I really like it. I don't care which format wins, although I am a bit partial to HD DVD, because whoever wins I will still have a beautiful 2nd upscaling DVD player. I'm really waiting for cheaper discs!
Nfinity @ Aug 13th 2007 5:15PM
Tim and others, I don't know how you can even look at this in any way logical. This blog post is nothing but misleading.
This article and the whole interview, (btw, published by a BDA site and a person who is begin paid by Sony, Fox and Disney) is one big farce.
It has been discussed by insiders that Sony gave Universal an offer that Universal refused and this article is a response from pissed off Sony where they can do nothing else but blame Universal how they are somehow responsible that customers suffer, ridiculous. Go to AVS Forums to HD DVD section to see how this blog is completely debunked and attacked with reason and facts.
This whole blog post is nothing more but quotes taken out of context and then interpreted by the author of the blog.
I find it extremely disguisting that Engadget once agains represents Blu-Ray propaganda machine. I have posted many POSITIVE HD DVD news, articles and they never get published as news, but a highly biased blog is NEWS?
Don't worry, a site is being made that will show all of the fanboy authors, web sites that have been bought or sponsored to spread lies and deceit for Sony. This is the ONLY way Blu-Ray can win. WHen a format has inferior quality, unfinished specs, when players customers buy now will not fully work after Profile 1.1 is released while making consumers pay more for this. These are all topics that are not being reported anywhere on Blu sites, including Engadget.
Engadget HD as a true enthusiast site should be talking about these issues. Investigate. Isn't this what you are suppose to be? A helper and informer that should help consumers.
If someone spends $500-$600+ on a player. Don't you think that it should be investigated whether or not your player will have full functionality only few months from now. But I guess when anti-consumer company pays you, it's fine to stomp all over your credibility.
It is truly amazing how low this world has gone.
MegaZone @ Aug 14th 2007 1:38AM
Wow, someone is bitter than HD DVD is getting stomped by BD. Even with a head start and lower prices, HD DVD can't beat BD.
It is all about the content - go with HD DVD and forget about Sony, MGM, Fox, Disney, and others. Go with BD and forget about - Universal and... Universal. Easy decision, especially since Universal has had mostly crap titles the past few years, with few exceptions.
Universal *will* cave in and release BD, probably in early 2008 once they get whipped in sales during the holiday season. Shareholders just won't stand for political decisions to prop up a failing format instead of getting more sales.
You realize DVD kept evolving long after launch, right? DTS was not part of the DVD spec when it launched, and there are DVD players that don't support it - I own one. BD 1.1 is a super-set of BD 1.0. So if you own a 1.0 player everything you had still works. You won't be able to access the new features - BFD. That's technology. Is HD DVD never going to evolve? Toshiba has touted the ability to evolve the spec in the past, so careful how you answer.
And a number of BD players will probably be upgradeable to 1.1 anyway. Not that it is a huge deal - since HD DVD's special features don't seem to be helping it. See '300' and BD taking 65% of high-def sales right from the start, despite HD DVD having some extra features.
There really hasn't been a lot of positive HD DVD news that isn't complete spin - like the "HD DVD players outsell BD players" crap - sure, if you ignore the PS3 completely. While I agree that you can't count ever PS3 as a player since many people don't use them as such, you can't ignore it either. I bought a PS3 primarily for use as a player, gaming is secondary - I don't even own a game yet.
BD has always been superior, and the format war is Toshiba's fault - it is all about money and Toshiba being unwilling to take a smaller piece of the pie. Period. Sony was willing to compromise and bow out back with DVD, allowing Toshiba to take the lion's share. This time Toshiba was not willing to do the same - it is that simple. This is not 'Sony vs. Toshiba', this is 'everyone else vs. Toshiba'. The right thing for them to have done is to have joined the BDA one of the *multiple* times they were invited, accepted the smaller licensing revenue, and avoided the whole war. I do actively wish Toshiba ill for causing this war - I've been watching this since the earliest proposals and I have no sympathy for Toshiba in this at all.
T Webb @ Aug 13th 2007 6:00PM
No difference? Are you crazy. Upconverting DVD players look like crap. The same HD movie kills a standard DVD upconverted. They're not even close.
Serengeti @ Aug 13th 2007 7:54PM
That is one crazy-ass allegation, that theres little difference between DVD upscaled and anything less than a 'giant 1080p set'. There is a HUGE difference watching Planet Earth on my 42" screen in 1080i. I've seen 720p content on my screen and can notice the difference there, as well.
My conclusion is that your projector focus is a little off :P
horngreen @ Aug 13th 2007 7:05PM
Format war is all hype. There will be no winner. They will all be dual format players. Just like standard DVD now plays just about all types of disks(-r+r, -rw+rw, etc). I heard Wally World may have a chinese dual format player for $100 come Christmas season.
jdb @ Aug 13th 2007 6:59PM
Anyone remember 1997? In January 1997, the first DVD players hit the US market: Toshiba SD-2006 ($600), Samsung DVD-705 ($750), RCA RC-5200P ($600). Pioneer DVL-700 ($1000), Sony DVP-S7000 ($1000), and Panasonic DVD-A100 ($600). By March, the Toshiba SD-2006 was running $499 with the Sony still hovering around $1000. This perfectly mirrors the first generation HD player pricing of last year, and yet there was no format war. (DIVX had no impact on DVD player pricing; if anything, it would have impacted DVD movie pricing and nothing more. Besides, DIVX didn't arrive until September).
Within a year and a half you had $299 Pioneer players and the following year saw the birth of the cheapo Chinese players.
Has the current format war helped much? Toshiba and Sony introduced their initial players around the same price points as 1997. I imagine decreased manufacturing costs due to technological innovations since 1997 make up for any difference with inflation. A year later we're looking at sub-$500 across the board, with Toshiba pushing the sub-$300 envelope. Not too different than the sub-$300 Pioneer DVD player.
If we see sub-$200 G3 as the norm this Christmas out of Toshiba, then things are mildly more interesting. Of course, the G3 is supposed to be a cost optimized System-on-Chip design that was technologically infeasible back in 1998/1999. A sub-$200 player this year probably has more to do with technology than price/format wars. The possibility of $99 Chinese players hitting before Q3 of 2008 is probably the most telling of any war influence. Then again, is that a result of the format war or a result of the new "international economy" that is much more prevalent today than in 90s?
Michael @ Aug 19th 2007 6:34AM
Yeah and I heard that there were Weapons of Mass Destruction too...
JeffDM @ Aug 13th 2007 7:26PM
Divx really didn't help push down prices that I saw, it was $50 to $100 more for the player, more complexity, with no real added value, it was the same hardware with the additional cancer attached, there was no way for it to push down DVD. It was also primarily sold by only one chain - Circuit City, because they own the format, and thus, no other retailer wanted to help put money in the pockets of a competitor.
I'm not convinced that the HDDVD / BR format war made any difference. I mean, it's not as if the companies can't compete against each other with players from the SAME format. I also don't think it's fair to the consumers to buy into two formats in order to get all their favorite titles that are in HD, rather than maybe 70% if they only buy into one. It's also unnecessary complexity of having to operate two different players, or pay more than the sum of the two to get a dual format player. Retail floor space is also not unlimited, rather than ten shelves of two HD formats, there chould be 20 shelves of the same format and more titles to chose from rather than having to have duplicate titles. There is some opportunity to exploit overlaps, but I can imagine for every two titles that is done in both formats, if they only did one format, they might have spent the extra porting work on readying a third title instead.
MegaZone @ Aug 14th 2007 1:43AM
I don't think the 'format war' has been that great for consumers. There would still be competition without it - Sony vs. Pioneer vs. Toshiba vs. Samsung, etc. The PS3 would still be out there with pricing determined by the gaming wars and not the format wars. And, with one standard, you bet Microsoft would still have an add-on for the Xbox 360 as an option. (And when BD kills HD DVD, MS will release a BD drive - I'm sure.)
The format war also helps keep the price *higher*. Disc pressing capacity has divided between the two formats, keeping capacity scarce for both formats and keeping disc costs higher. Additionally, a lot of manufacturers are sitting the war out, waiting for a winner - even further depressing capacity. With one format there wouldn't be as much reluctance to invest in new presses, and there wouldn't be the dilution in what investment we have today. That would help drive costs down too.
Devils Advocate @ Aug 14th 2007 10:05AM
Megazone,
Thank you, you are the smartest person I have seen. HD-DVD camp says Sony is a greedy company showing things down people's throat, but yet they conveniently ignore how Sony caved in preventing a dvd format war and Toshiba took in all those royalties from dvd. For HD, Toshiba wanted to control it AGAIN, but Sony stood up and said "Not this time"
Granted Sony is a greedy corporation, but they are no worse than any other corporation out there.
I also like the fact that HD-DVD has yet to realize that their biggest supporter, Microsoft, is only in the HDDVD camp for the sole purpose of undermining bluray so they make downloadable content (via xbox live) the way to go.
Good luck, HD-DVD. Yall are gonna need it.
Xyzzy @ Aug 14th 2007 10:36AM
Umm, does everyone realize that this "interview" is posted on a self-confessed Blu-Ray site? I haven't seen this "interview" anywhere else on the net... In addition, the article doesn't have very many quotes by Universal -- most of it is trying to IMPLY that the guy said it, but there's not many direct quotes. For example:
----------------
But Kornblau says Universal's position is not driven by deals but by a long-term and consumer-focused strategy that is supported by Universal parent NBC and corporate owner GE. Universal never initially wanted a war, he says, which is why the studio made a decision years ago to back only one format.
----------------
Not a single quote from Universal there.
The lesson? Always consider the source and read things with a critical eye.
Eddie @ Aug 14th 2007 12:41PM
The fact of the matter in this war is that HD DVD is so much cheaper to produce, the sales needed to make a profit are lower, and therefore the current level of sales is just fine. Blu Ray needs to stay on top at every moment, because the second HD DVD gains, studios will drop exclusivity just because the numbers really do make sense. Why do you think Warner is so steadfastly dual format? They sell more than enough HD DVDs for it to make sense, even though the number is so much lower than Blu Ray. I agree Blu Ray is superior technology, but it belongs next to betamax in high end professional applications(which is still in use today). HD DVD for this reason cannot "lose", it can only forever stay a thorn in blu ray's side. We forget that studios have no built in loyalty, and Sony's game division has been hurt by their support of blu-ray. This really is Sony vs MS/Tosh, and how long can one company subsidize expensive, expensive technology at a loss? Sony shot itself in the foot by going this alone, I don't see Toshiba or Microsoft posting quarterly losses. On a personal note, Pirates 3 and Spiderman were garbage, I'm glad they're on Blu Ray. Bourne is the only good summer blockbuster and I'm preordering that one for sure.
Devils Advocate @ Aug 14th 2007 1:29PM
Eddie,
You're thoughts are great except that its concerned with something that is not going to happen:
If 300 wasnt good enough to get HD-DVD a single win. Hell, it wasnt even good enough to close the widening gap. What makes you think that any other title can pull it off?
Your opinion of PotC and Spiderman 3 being garbage is your opinion. They will sell TONS of copies on bluray.
Blockbusters do that, whether they were good or not.
Eddie @ Aug 14th 2007 3:09PM
I'm not anticipating any singular moment when (if) HD DVD overtakes Blu Ray. All I'm saying is that moment had BETTER not happen for Blu Ray's sake, even once, because Blu Ray has that much more to lose. The real decision in all of this will be made at the $100-$150 standalone player price point. Until then, HD DVD is sustainable, and the format doesn't need exclusives as long as the titles keep coming. The same cannot be said of Blu Ray. The stakes will be raised when Amazon starts selling independent films on HD DVD, because if any player in all of this has shown its resiliency, it's independent cinema, and as of now it is one of a couple aces up HD's sleeve. I know personally if Blu Ray had announced extensive indie cinema support, I would seriously consider switching. The fact that a pattern is emerging with Blu Ray being the "mindless entertainment" format and HD serving as the "art house" format pleases me to no end and presents just one more possible scenario in our little format war.
Devils Advocate @ Aug 14th 2007 7:56PM
I do agree with one comment bluray has much more to lose than HD-DVD
Segarsj @ Aug 15th 2007 1:38PM
@Eddie
Not only do they support indie films, but HD DVD is not region locked which allows you to purchase HD DVD's from any country in the world! I'm not sure if you were aware of this but it is another great reason to support HD DVD.
If you happen to look at the weekly release posts you should be able to find links to a variety of sites where you can purchase HD DVD imports. I personally use this site for all of my international release news: http://hddvdformat.blogspot.com/
Enjoy!
Michael @ Aug 19th 2007 6:18AM
While I agree with you in principle Eddie, I do think there are certain titles that will have a larger impact on the HD-DVD format push than others. Most notably, "The Matrix" was probably the sole title release thus far sealed me purchasing this format. Coming up, we will see the release of "Battlestar Galactica - Season One" and then "Heroes - Season One" before Christmas. Both of these series have a STRONG geek following, the same geeks (myself included!) that tend to spend a lot of their disposable income on tech gadgets such as high end equipment. I do think that both of these titles will have an influence on sales that should be more noticeable than the average HD release.
I would also like to add the following comment to this discussion. Nearly every argument I read here is solely from the consumer POV. What nearly everyone here forgets is that Sony, Toshiba, Universal, Warner, etc plays from a completely different rulebook than what we as consumer use to define logic and reason. These corporations measure success completely different than any of us do therefore most of the arguments here have virtually no meaning or basis in reality at all. An excellent example of this is cost of production. Here, HD-DVD clearly has an edge since the format adapts the current (and paid for) DVD technology. This is a HUGE cost for production of both equipment and software titles. Don't you think that plays into the long term strategy for both Toshiba and Universal? It HAS to, yet I seldom see that enter into any arguments posted by consumers. Whether the Blu-Ray camp can compete with that long term remains to be seen however the bottom line is that HD-DVD is and will be for a while less expensive to produce than BR. The companies invested in HD need to sell far fewer players or discs to turn a profit and they realize it. Not only do they realize it, THEY ARE COUNTING ON IT. We as consumers are focused on the wrong numbers, title sales. The businesses invovled are looking at something entirely different: profits.
"Save the cheerleader, save the format."
http://www.myspace.com/scoobarama
anotheraviator @ Aug 14th 2007 7:59PM
It's anyones guess what happens in this fight. One can look at the history of Sony and their constant need to release proprietary technology which always fails due to end-cost and lack of compatibility. Beta.. MiniDiscs...MMCDs... HiFD... nothing ever worked for them.
The benefit they have in this is the PS3... but I think it's done nothing but cause a false blip on the radar. 4 million Bluray units worldwide.. if just 5% are curious to see a bluray movie and make the purchase, sales skyrocket.
Everyone calls this the death of HD-DVD -- Maybe so. Maybe not.
The true determination of a winner in recent technology has always been and will always be who dominates the PC front. With Microsoft and Intel backing HD-DVD 100% and the lack of insane licensing fees, could help the HD-DVD front win over the consumer.
Bluray has more capacity.. but how much capacity do you need for a movie? Is it worth the extra capacity if it means the discs are more money to manufacture, less durable, and players/recorders much more expensive?
The winner in this game will be the one who has the cheapest stand-alone players, PC based recorders, and recordable media. Media is a no-brainer since HD-DVD uses the same manufacturing method as regular DVDs.
If Toshiba plans to win the "war", they need to release a $200.00 HD-DVD-R drive for PCs and a $200.00 stand-alone player. If that happens, Bluray won't know what hit them. The movie studios that claim to be "exclusive supporters" will jump ship faster than you can say "show me 1080p". After all, they don't care what the format is.. as long as they are selling units.
Now if it goes the other way, and Sony beats them to the punch with the cheap hardware, it's death to HD-DVD.. especially with all those PS3s already in circulation.
reddplague @ Aug 15th 2007 12:01PM
Since you mention the PC market HD-DVD will lose. How many OEM HD-DVD drives are on the market.
Only one external read only drive LOL!!!. How many OEM Blu-ray drives are on the market at least four internal and two external with read write.
So please tell me how HD-DVD is going to win the PC market. Microsoft has thier own problems with Vista begin a peice of crap how are they going to help Toshiba win?
Michael @ Aug 19th 2007 6:30AM
"The true determination of a winner in recent technology has always been and will always be who dominates the PC front. With Microsoft and Intel backing HD-DVD 100% and the lack of insane licensing fees, could help the HD-DVD front win over the consumer."
An excellent point made here. While you listed both Microsoft and Intel, you also forgot one of the other major players on the PC front: HP. HP has joined forces with HD-DVD and offers only drives of this format in their computers being currently produced. HP is currently the leader in notebook sales worldwide. The number two sales leader is actually a tie between Dell and oh look, Toshiba. I see a trend...
http://www.myspace.com/scoobarama
Eddie @ Aug 15th 2007 1:41PM
Toshiba and Microsoft.
Do you know what components are most likely to be in a modern retail pc?
Toshiba and Microsoft.
Microsoft has proven it can and will grease the wheels to encourage support of their products, and HD DVD is no different. When they have a drive that hits a low enough price point, you better believe low end HP's will come with one, and then Blu Ray is in trouble.
Not to mention the fact that an HD DVD Xbox add on has drivers pre installed on Vista and that's $149 right now with 5 free movies.
What Blu Ray drive can you buy for $149? Luckily for BR MS hasn't just rebranded these drives and sold them as external HD DVD drives, even though the functionality is there.
The scariest part for BR is that you know MS isn't sitting on their hands, they are preparing something behind the scenes in support of their format of choice that will set this 'war' on its ear.
anotheraviator @ Aug 15th 2007 7:20PM
Also there are several drives on the verge of release from NEC, LG, Toshiba, and HP. Also a Google search already shows several blank HD-DVD media already on-sale from Verbatim, TDK, Memorex, Fuji, and others. They obviously don't see the demise coming soon as they are already flooding the market with blank media at a time when end-user drive installations is still low.
Unless you own a Toshiba or HP notebook which are starting to ship standard with thin HD-DVD recorders from the factory.
It reminds me of those "what to buy.. DVD-R or DVD+R" days.. and we all know what happened there.