Warner Home Video moves 250k copies of 300 in first week
[Via MovieWeb]
[Via MovieWeb]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Paul Arnette @ Aug 7th 2007 10:33PM
"An idustry source who wishes to remain private has told me it is 65-35 for Blu-ray."
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/827379/
Kevin Murphy @ Aug 7th 2007 11:09PM
"An idustry source who wishes to remain private..."
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
humpty @ Aug 7th 2007 10:41PM
I bought this day one at an HMV.. last BD copy while there were several HD-DVD versions for sale. I still cant track down a copy of Planet Earth.
will @ Aug 7th 2007 10:50PM
this movie is a must have if have a standard dvd player,an hd dvd player or a blu ray player am glad i got it the firsr day it was released because now its hard to find almost on either format.
Adam75 @ Aug 7th 2007 11:51PM
Can't find this anywhere on HD-DVD in my local area. Plenty of Blu-Ray copies though between Best Buy and Target.
JeffDM @ Aug 8th 2007 12:00AM
I suppose this may be the movie that sells HD discs to the masses, the way that supposedly Top Gun sold VHS and The Matrix sold DVD.
Segarsj @ Aug 8th 2007 12:01AM
There are about 10 copies of the Blu-ray version at my local best buy, and I could only find two copies of the HD DVD version.
DeadPlasmaCell @ Aug 8th 2007 12:10AM
Should be interesting to see how the HD Download on the Xbox Video Market Place does next week.
SeanC @ Aug 8th 2007 12:12AM
Whats the point of releasing hd-dvd/dvd combo discs if they're not discontinuing standard dvd releases? Combo discs are pointless if they're stored away in the hd-dvd section. People don't go to the hd-dvd section looking for dvds. Putting a combo disc in the hd section of the store is like preaching to the choir.
boulderhorn @ Aug 9th 2007 11:57AM
I was wondering as to the need for combo discs, but since my two hd tvs are way to big to bring with me on trips and my laptop and portable dvd players don't play hd-dvds i guess the combo discs make sense. No-one that owns just a standard dvd player is going to shell out the extra bucks for an hd-dvd versions just incase they pickup a player in the future. SO... marketing combo discs to current HD-DVD owners is the only thing that makes sense. In my humble opinion.
Nfinity @ Aug 8th 2007 12:13AM
65:35 has been confirmed, which is NOT bad at all considering 10:1 ratio of PS3 players vs HD DVD players. I just have to point out that A LOT of retailers did a huge injustice to HD DVD by not being prepared for the demand of HD DVD version of the movie. The numbers would be MUCH higher for HD DVD, but majority of retailers were delivered smaller amount of HD DVD copies and left out of stock. Just to put things in perspective, there hasn't been a store in my neighborhood in 10 mile radius that had an HD DVD copy of 300 in stock anymore while they had plenty of Blu-Ray.
Just watch what happens when Universal releases a title that's in demand..just watch how many copies gets sold when retailers have enough in stock. Bourne Identity and Hot Fuzz sold in AMAZING numbers wiping the floor with Blu-Ray highest sold numbers.
You can't blame Warner though, they had a $4 more expensive version of 300 on HD DVD and probably cost them a bit more and didn't want to take a risk of going full blast like with Blu-Ray, but now they've learned..expect other Warner releases to be printed in the same amount as Blu-Ray copies and blasting sales numbers.
h0mi @ Aug 8th 2007 2:04AM
65:35 means 87k hddvds were sold in 1 week. thats pretty good given the fact that it was a combo disc and people had issues with it in their 360 add on or toshiba player.
Alex @ Aug 8th 2007 2:39AM
i went to BestBuy day of release and HD DVDs were sold out. There were plenty of BD left. HD DVD more popular, or BestBuy didn't order enough doesn't matter to me. The fact that big title HD discs are selling out at a increasing volume is a good sign.
Matt @ Aug 8th 2007 2:55AM
Best Buy and Target in my area sold out of 300 on HD-DVD, plenty of Blu.
Kevin Murphy @ Aug 8th 2007 3:16AM
Combo disks exist so that people who have multiple TVs, some of which are SD, can buy just one disk and play it on any equipment, not just the HD set in the family room. They only do this with new titles, assuming that you already have a DVD of a catalog title.
Kevin Murphy @ Aug 8th 2007 3:18AM
So, the lower retail sales of HD DVD are just a self-fulfilling prophesy? They would have sold more if they shipped more?
Mike @ Aug 8th 2007 4:13AM
If HD DVD did sell 87k thats probably close to 1 out of 4 owners...which is good.
What this should tell movie studios is multi format is the way to go to get the best sales and profits.
Nfinity @ Aug 8th 2007 4:52AM
@Mike
Exactly Mike..not only that..here I'll help Blu-Ray crowd with some math..
Sold units ratio means very little when the bottom line is MONEY, not how many units they sold..
So if we compare how much MONEY Warner made on Blu-Ray and how much on HD DVD version..we get a bit different story
For the ratio of 65:35 for number of sold units Warners gross income from titles looks like this:
- 300 on HD DVD combo sold 87,500 units @ $35, some places like Target now the combo is going for $39.99
- 300 on Blu-Ray sold 162,500 units @ 24.95. The price is pretty equal everywhere.
Now pay attention at the power of HD DVD:
- Blu-Ray 300 grossed them $4,060,875
- HD DVD 300 grossed them $3,045,000
Keep in mind that HD DVD version at $35 was sold at some places for $39.99 but let's keep it clean at $35.
When you do a little math out of $7,105,875 that they made on both titles if they sold 250k units. Warner's actual gross income in percentage is
57:43 in favor of Blu-Ray. Now this is truly impressive. Being in SHORT supply of HD DVD titles, and despite the fact that there's 10:1 Blu-Ray players out there, HD DVD actually almost manages to make 50% of hi-def sale for Warner, pointing out that number of SOLD units is not the only way to look at things.
To put things in perspective, let's assume that in the upcoming months, Warner increases shipped number of units for HD DVD to retail chains and sells the same number of titles..I will use 300 for reference again.
250k units as a sample... 50:50 number of sold copies the gross income for Warner looks like this:
125k units HD DVD sold @ $35 = 4,375,000
125k units BLu-Ray sold @ $25 = 3,125,000
That's 58:42 ratio in gross income in favor of HD DVD.
So, if a studio sells the SAME amount of HD DVD combo titles as Blu-Ray ones (which is not THAT far fetched) they actually make close to 60:40 ration money wise in favor of HD DVD.
This is where the power of HD DVD is..and don't forget again, we are talking about 10:1 in number of PLAYERs on the market. That's what I call consumer POWER.
SimbaDogg @ Aug 8th 2007 7:40AM
you're math means absolutely nothing for one reason:
we dont know what the margin is! you can have all the velocity in the world, or all the income dollars in the world, but if you dont know what if you're making money or not, those numbers mean squat. and i dare anyone to argue against that...i'm feeling feisty. If warner is making 4 dollars off each blu ray disc sold, and 4 dollars of each hd-dvd disc sold, we're right back to "omg, blu ray is really kicking ass in sales"...not "well, blu ray is cheaper so it kinda makes hd-dvd a better money maker". which disc is cheaper to manufacture is the biggie question. since we'll probably never see that, most analysts will only look @ which kicked the others butt in sheer sales, because like the departed, thats something we can all see (plus i think that for must have movies like chrysler 300, i doubt someone would be deterred from buying a movie because its 10 bucks more than the competing format)
Ben @ Aug 8th 2007 6:18AM
@ Nfinity
If the unit ratio is 65:35, what difference does the gross income make? $4,000,000 is nothing for massive corporations like Warner.
The most important thing IS the unit ratio as it is showing that nearly two times as many Blu-Ray versions of this movie are being bought. That shows how much more popular Blu-Ray is to HD DVD. Where is this "power of HD DVD" you are talking about?
Nfinity @ Aug 8th 2007 7:37AM
@Ben
I'm confused, what exactly Blu-Ray power are you talking about? There are MANY factors that numbers turned out 65:35. It would have been more for HD DVD if Warner actually supplied retail stores in appropriate numbers of HD DVD copies. While most stores were out of stock for HD DVD, there were still copies of Blu-Ray for sale. I can't blame Warner, they had a more expensive version of the movie and it was a risk to print as many copies as Blu-Ray simply from a price point. This caused almost all 300 HD DVD version in my neighborhood but also judging by friends from other states to be OUT OF STOCK, while BD versions are stacked. Even today, at $39.99 version for 300 HD DVD version, I saw only 2 or no copies against packed 300 BD copies at a few stores (I was looking for TNMT on HD DVD :) ).
But let's get back to your POWERFUL numbers for Blu-ray:
4.5 million players = sell 162,500 copies
300k players = sell 87,500 copies that are priced $5-$10 more
this means that every 27th Blu-Ray owner bought a copy, while for HD DVD it means that almost every 3rd HD DVD owner bought a copy. Let me enlighten you, that is NOT good for Blu-ray. The more HD DVD base grows, the more PS3 units Blu-Ray needs out there to stay in the lead, and they just simply can't match up hardware sale numbers at prices they are selling.
Here's a couple of more numbers:
4.5 million Blu-ray now vs 300k HD DVD has sold about 1.5 million titles vs 1 million or so HD DVD number of titles (at the moment) in total right? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it's something like that.
This means that if HD DVD players rise to 1 million by the end of this year (and this is only Toshiba and where are possible Chinese and Microsoft), Sony will need to have almost 10 million units to match 1:1 sales. To be honest, I don't see that happening, but they might get lucky if they somehow drop the price of PS3 to $399 this Christmas.
So things are not too promising no MATTER how you would like to spin it..not only that but the numbers show where studio's gross income from HD DVD nears the same income from Blu-Ray despite the facts I mentioned above, becomes clear that Warner for example, has more motivation to release on HD DVD than on Blu-Ray and we've already witnessed that right (quite a few Warner titles are EXCLUSIVE to HD DVD). They are coming to Blu-Ray, when? who knows?
There's also worldwide HD DVD acceptance where you can actually buy Blu-Ray exclusive titles around the world in HD DVD format. Some of which are not even available on Blu-Ray in the States. How ironic.
Let me just list a few so you know what I'm talking about:
Fantastic Four, Hannibal,Apocalypto, Underworld, Underwold: Evolution, Silent Hill, Alone in the Dark, Brothers Grimm, Ghost Rider, Bridge to Terabithia, Curse of the Golden Flower, Saw - Trilogy, Pan's Labyrinth, Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life, The Jackal, Resident Evil, Resident Evil: Apocalypse, The Reaping, Mr & Mrs Smith, The Island, Reign of Fire, Equilibrium and much much more...
But I'll let you post your "Sony chewed PR numbers" again and again, as I'm yet to hear an objective view from a BD fanboy.
Larry @ Aug 8th 2007 10:58AM
You are contradicting yourself. It does not matter how much money the "big corp" made then what difference does it make the sales ratio? If Warner Bros makes more money on HD DVD despite selling less then that would encourage them to continue release movies for that format.
SimbaDogg @ Aug 8th 2007 7:57AM
please read my post which is right above you...its as objective as it gets. and please, for the love of god...stop w/ this chinese mftr crap. you've been saying it for months, the "wait till a chinese mftr starts making them, wait till wally world starts carrying them on the cheap" stop w/ the what ifs. we should honestly be looking @ current trends, and what is actually available information rather than "stirring the chicken bones in the voodoo pot" as someone referred to you before. i'm not meaning to attack you, but jesus, lets me objective here.
the way that sony is kicking ass in sales @ this moment, i wouldn't doubt that they could hit 10 million (dont quote me, but i'm pretty sure that NPD put ps3 sales ahead of xbox 360), or close to it by years end. Consider 1) for the last few weeks (however longs its been since the official price drop) amazon has had the ps3 in the top 3 in sales rank, and many retailers have been sold out online (bby.com, compusa, circuit city, walmart, target, and more) and 2) there still aren't any games worth hollering about on the ps3. i have one, not gonna lie, resistance fall of man was great, but what else...and there still selling a boat load of systems w/out any games. with the release of Lair and Warhawk, sales might start to head even more north. and those are facts...
Serengeti @ Aug 8th 2007 7:56AM
Does it seem likely to you that Warner makes the same amount off BluRay discs as it does HDDVD?? Weren't HDDVD discs supposed to be cheaper to produce?? If true, wouldn't that completely refute your suggestion that the margins for BluRay are equivalent to those for HDDVD??
SimbaDogg @ Aug 8th 2007 8:00AM
wow, lots of people on early in the AM...
you are 100% true serengeti...from everything i've heard about hd-dvd vs blu ray, blu ray has always been more to mftr and support. but there comes a point when you hit something called economies of scale, who knows if they have, but it could be that warner is selling so many discs on blu ray, that they've really cut mftring costs compared to hd dvd. this is all speculation
Larry @ Aug 8th 2007 8:14AM
Besides the rhetoric on both sides this is good news for the HD movie format in general. The DVD probably sold millions more than either format, but 350,000 people went out and bought at least $10.00 for a higher quality format. That is good news.
Steve @ Aug 8th 2007 8:45AM
@Nfinity
HD-DVD hasn't won a month in software sales since Nov 2006, the month the PS3 launched, and they will never win a month ever again. It's incredible you'd argue a store would not stock something they think people will buy, but it's desperate times for HD-DVD.
I'm sure you'll need 6 more paragraphs of creative misdirection to counter those 2 sentences, go ahead, entertain us.
Paul Arnette @ Aug 8th 2007 9:06AM
If under-ordering the HD DVD version of 300 was truly the reason its sales were lower than the Blu-ray Disc version, then we should see evidence of it by how long it remains in the Top 10. HD DVD titles generally have a shorter life span in the Top 10, so if this titles holds onto a Top 10 spot for a month or more, I will buy into that argument more.
Blu-ray titles on the other hand don't seem to sell as fast their first week of sale, but are generally accepted to have a longer life cycle in the Top 10 (e.g. Casino Royale and PotC).
Ryan @ Aug 8th 2007 9:17AM
I'm down on the combo disks. If anything they should be CHEAPER than the blu ray version. It seems like the HD-DVD should take advantage of these Trojan horses to get the disks into people's houses for when they decide to go to an HD player. Instead it's basically the worst of all worlds except for the guy who wants to watch it in HD, but also likes transcode it onto his iPod.
JeffDM @ Aug 8th 2007 11:46AM
The combo format is nice to have though if you have any portable video player. I don't think there are any portable HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players, probably aren't any in-car players available, these screens are on the whole, generally too small to have much benefit from the higher resolution. I think not having to buy a second disc to play on a portable DVD player is a decent selling point.
racerz @ Aug 8th 2007 12:17PM
Hey all,
Correct me if I am wrong, and I am known to be quite often, but when I sell clothing from my wholesale business, I am only really concerned in how many units I ship to stores and issue them with a RRP. What I charge also is usually ~50% less than what they sell it for, as to the shops margins, I am sure it differs with these flavours of HD discs.
But I am missing the point here, as with my clothes, I am concerned with how many units I sell to stores/retailers/distributors (as my earnings stop there) not directly with how many are sold onto end users, yet all your math seems to be based on that fact. Warner or any other studio make their money from the 'stores(retailers)' buying their discs, not from you, the end user is what fuels the retailers, and ultimately the retails fuel the studios/distributors, but that relationship is a little more indirect, while vital, as you seem to make out it is.
So if all the stores are ordering more of say Blu-ray, regardless of these numbers you are all talking about, Warner may be making a fair bit more back from the blu-ray simply by shipping far more discs, regardless if they have been on sold as yet.
Thanks
Justin @ Aug 8th 2007 2:14PM
I wonder what the format sales percentage will be when the Spider Man series hits HD (sure to break the 300 sales record)?
I am going to go out on a limb and predict HD-DVD: 0% Blu-Ray: 100%
I am certain the Hd-dvd shelves at Best Buy and Target will be "sold out" of this title too.
Like anyone is inteseted what the "status" is of your local retailer. Rate of sale, that is what the stuido's care about; money!
h0mi @ Aug 8th 2007 2:30PM
Some more logic/math explanations.
Good news for Bluray is not necessarily bad news for HD-DVD and Good news for HD-DVD is not necessarily bad news for Bluray.
This is not "OMG yippie" good news for HD-DVD (100k wouldve been) but it's pretty good news- a lot of copies were sold despite unreliable, expensive combo discs. And a popular title managed to be sold to about 25% of all HD-DVD owners.
Bluray doesnt have 4 million players, it has 1.8m in the US. (These are US #s not world #s).
harryplotter @ Aug 8th 2007 3:19PM
I bet HD-DVD fanboys are waiting for their Spiderman and POTC copies...
:D
oh wait.....They can't get them.....LOL
Nfinity @ Aug 8th 2007 5:14PM
Harry Potter, don't yell so hard, as those might be coming to HD DVD.
What you fail to realize, as HD DVD is superior format without regional coding we can use titles all over the world, which allows us to get even some Blu-Ray exclusive titles on HD DVD even before US Blu-Ray crowd gets them. Movies like the ones listed above are/or soon will be available on HD DVD)
Fantastic Four
Hannibal
Apocalypto
Underworld
Underwold: Evolution
Silent Hill
Alone in the Dark
Brothers Grimm
Ghost Rider
Bridge to Terabithia
Curse of the Golden Flower
Saw - Trilogy
Pan's Labyrinth
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life
The Jackal
Resident Evil
Resident Evil: Apocalypse
The Reaping
Mr & Mrs Smith.
The Island
Reign of Fire
and much much more...
And coming soon/released:
2001: A Space Odyssey (France) - [??/12/2007]
An American Haunting (Spain) - [11/07/2007]
Apocalypto (Poland) - [31/07/2007]
Arthur and the Invisibles (Arthur y los Minimoys) (Spain) - [27/06/2007]
Babel (France-UK) - [25/06/2007-NYA]
Band of Brothers (5 Disc) (Japan) - [27/07/2007]
Blade Runner (France) - [??/09/2007]
Bridge To Terebethia (Spain-France) - [27/06/2007-??/12/2007]
Brotherhood Of The Wolf (UK) - [30/09/2007]
Brothers Grimm (Germany) - [03/09/2007]
Clockwork Orange, A (France) - [??/12/2007]
Crash (Spain) - [Postponed]
Dead Pool, The (France) - [??/10/2007]
Dirty Harry (France) - [??/10/2007]
Enforcer, The (France) - [??/10/2007]
Eyes Wide Shut (France) - [??/12/2007]
Fantastic Four (Germany) - [NYA]
Gangs of New York (Spain) - [Postponed]
Ghost Rider (France) - [??/09/2007]
Good, The Bad & The Ugly, The (Spain) - [Postponed]
Harry Potter & The Philosophers (Sorcerers) Stone (France) - [23/11/2007]
Harry Potter & The Chamber Of Secrets (France) - [23/11/2007]
Harry Potter & The Prisoner Of Azkaban (France) - [23/11/2007]
Hannibal (France) - [01/08/2007]
Hannibal Rising (France) - [01/08/2007]
Hot Fuzz (UK) - [06/08/2007]
Island, The (Germany-France-UK-Spain) - [22/06/2007-27/06/2007-30/07/2007-Postponed]
K-19: The Widowmaker (Spain) - [Postponed]
L.A Confidential (France) - [??/09/2007]
Magnum Force (France) - [??/10/2007]
Mr. Beans Holiday (Australia) - [15/08/2007]
Mr. & Mrs. Smith (France) - [NYA]
Mulholland Drive (UK) - [30/09/2007]
Oceans 11 (1960) (France) - [??/12/2007]
Oceans 11 (2001) (France) - [??/12/2007]
Oceans 12 (France) - [??/12/2007]
Oliver Twist (2005) (Spain) - [27/06/2007]
Pan's Labyrinth (Le Labyrinthe de Pan) (France) - [04/07/2007]
Patlabor the Movie (Japan) - [27/07/2007]
Patlabor the Movie 2 (Japan) - [24/08/2007]
Poltergeist (France) - [??/09/2007]
Ran (UK) - [Postponed]
Reaping, The (France) - [24/10/2007]
English Audio: Yes English TrueHD 5.1, DD+ 5.1
Subtitles: English Available
Resident Evil (Germany) - [27/09/2007]
Resident Evil: Apocalypse (Germany) - [27/09/2007]
Saw I (Spain) - [Postponed]
Saw II (Spain) - [Postponed]
Saw Trilogy (Germany) - [??/??/2008]
Serpico (Germany) - [22/06/2007]
Shaun Of The Dead (UK) - [06/08/2007]
Shining, The (France) - [??/12/2007]
Silent Hill (Germany) - [31/08/2007]
Sudden Impact - [??/10/2007]
Three days of the Condor (Die 3 Tage des Condor) (Germany) - [22/06/2007]
Tomb Raider II: Cradle Of Life (Germany) - [03/09/2007]
Top Gun (UK) - [03/09/2007]
Truands (France) - [06/08/2007]
Underworld:Extended Edition (Germany) - [31/08/2007]
We Were Soldiers (Germany) - [NYA]
Wings of Honneamise (Japan) - [NYA]
Wizard Of Oz, The (France) - [??/12/2007]
Zodiac (France) - [??/09/2007]
...
How many exclusive HD DVD titles Blu-Ray crowd can get? Um, let me see...ZILCH!
Continue drinking Blu coolaid, while the rest of us enjoy reality.
Devils Advocate @ Aug 8th 2007 10:25PM
Nfinity,
If your gonna make comments, they need to be facts. First off your list of movie titles is FALSE.
I only had to see the first line to know you had inaccurate information:
Fantastic Four is from a bluray exclusive studio. FOX.
Im not gonna even begin to comment on the other movies.
Not one single bluray exclusive studio has said they are going to be releasing on HD-DVD.
For all you HD-DVD lovers out there, Im sorry to break it to you but this is the truth:
BLURAY HAS WON. HD-DVD cant survive.
You can talk about how great Hot Fuzz is all you want (and dont get me wrong it is a FANTASTIC looking HD-DVD), but seriously do you think that Hot Fuzz is a movie that will bring people over to HD-DVD the same way that movies like PotC, Spiderman, X-men, Star Wars, James Bond could bring people over the bluray crowd. Although the Matrix has done good for HD-DVD, but it will soon be on Bluray as well.
Im so sick of you guys quoting attach rates and bullshit, because the fact remains
HD-DVD is OUTSELLING bluray.
I just absolutely love that how yall talk about how HD-DVD has higher individual players than bluray when the PS3 is ignored, but yet when attach rates comes into the picture the PS3 is included.
MAKE UP YOUR MINDS
Nfinity @ Aug 9th 2007 12:16AM
@DevilsAdvocate
Just so you wake up from a deep coma that BDA propaganda got you in:
Fantastic Four on HD DVD:
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000UP7SIM/ref=nosim/ar0a-21
Mr & Mrs Smith HD DVD:
http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/smith-polish-release-p-12323.html?osCsid=2d47a616e40570ea128cfa6a6c6bf003
Silent Hill HD DVD:
http://www.amazon.de/Silent-Hill-DVD-Sean-Bean/dp/B000S1ROPU/ref=sr_1_1/302-5468949-4736829?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1186632706&sr=1-1
The Island HD DVD:
http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/island-release-p-12397.html?osCsid=2d47a616e40570ea128cfa6a6c6bf003
Tomb Raider 2 HD DVD:
http://www.amazon.de/Tomb-Raider-Die-Wiege-Lebens/dp/B000T4E292/ref=sr_1_11/302-5468949-4736829?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1186632706&sr=1-11
The Prestige HD DVD:
http://www.amazon.de/Prestige-Meister-Magie-HD-DVD/dp/B000O78JT8/ref=sr_1_12/302-5468949-4736829?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1186632706&sr=1-12
Underworld HD DVD:
http://www.amazon.de/Underworld-HD-DVD-Erwin-Leder/dp/B000S1ROPK/ref=sr_1_13/302-5468949-4736829?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1186632706&sr=1-13
Terminator 2 HD DVD:
http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/terminator-judgment-french-release-p-11233.html?osCsid=2d47a616e40570ea128cfa6a6c6bf003
I can go on but you get the picture. Understand that the WHOLE world is pro HD DVD and in fact are releasing most movies on HD DVD including Sony Pictures movies etc.
You can choose NOT to believe, but you'll wake up eventually.
Devils Advocate @ Aug 8th 2007 10:27PM
Excuse me Bluray is outselling HD-DVD by at least 2:1 many weeks and in some weeks 3:1.
I have to give HD-DVD credit. I could learn from them how to be very optimistic in my dying hour.
Devils Advocate @ Aug 9th 2007 3:07AM
Its not gonna happen. Amazon made a mistake, because if it were true, all the major HD sites would be reporting it and so far not a single one of them has. Not a one that means anything. Fox, Disney, and Sony are not going to release titles on HD-DVD. It wont happen. Guarantee it. 100% guarantee it!!! However, dont let me stop you from waiting while I watch Universal go format neutral.
Lets assume your argument was true, releasing a title overseas in one format doesnt matter because the majority of the HD owners care about what they can find at Best Buy, Circuit City, and Walmart IN AMERICA, not Europe.
Im sorry to rain on your parade, but HD_DVD has no chance. Once again, dont let me stop you from wasting your money on a losing formats.
Once again, bluray is outselling HD-DVD by a 2:1 margin and I just love how the HD-DVD crowd is blaming lack of supply on sales, eventhough Ive seen both formats at my Target, Best Buy and Circuit CIty. Btw, I asked and they said both formats got equal numbers of titles in both formats.
Segarsj @ Aug 9th 2007 1:00PM
@Devils Advocate
I thought we resolved this on Format War Central, my friend.
The releases that he's referring to are international releases through a variety of international Amazon sites (amazon.de, amazon.jp, amazon.fr etc...) among others. Since the distribution companies or distribution rights can differ throughout the world we can see any number of blu-ray "exclusives" on HD DVD.
You have a point with regard to J6P here in America, but you must remember that as part of the world market, we are just that a part. Whether HD DVD or Blu-ray is accepted as the international disc media choice remains to be seen, I can't imagine a world in which a region free/cheaper format will lose out to a more expensive and region locked format. This is my opinion so take it for what it is, but I still don't understand why you, or anyone for that matter, would wish death upon a region free format since you are sacrificing your freedom of choice.
Also, I have my own theories as to why we're not hearing more about HD DVD's region free capabilities/releases on sites like Engadget HD and others, but they are simply theories and nothing more. It does bother me considerably that we're not hearing more about this topic, but judging from what Engadget's own Ben Drawbaugh had to say in an earlier post this week (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/06/hd-dvd-and-blu-ray-releases-on-august-7th-2007/)
Ben believes there to be no significant amount of consumer interest in being informed about HD DVD international releases, but as you will find on that message board as well as here, the region free capabilities are indeed an object of interest and there ARE a large number of owners who aren't aware of their own players capabilities. It would be incredibly easy to educate the users of the region free possibilities and it wouldn't be hard for Engadget HD to keep track of the international releases, especially since Nfinity practically listed all of the imports up above, they need only connect the dots. Unfortunately it seems like Ben could care less about educating customers about region free releases, but I've still got my fingers crossed in the hopes that Ben will wise up, and if not him then perhaps another Engadget author will step up to the plate.
Devils Advocate @ Aug 9th 2007 3:08AM
SOrry, IM referring to 300 in HD-DVD and bluray
Jonton81 @ Aug 9th 2007 4:40AM
@Devils
Nifty is refering to European releases, some of which are distributed by different companies than in the US of A. As HD DVD is region free it is possible to watch European releases in America (and Vice Versa). This I know because as a HD DVD user in the UK I buy most my films from America as they are so much cheaper (about 1/2 the price) however when a film comes out that I want but is not available (ie Terminator 2) I buy it from here. I can't comment on the veracity of Nifty's list, however even just checkout www.play.com 's limited selection of HD DVD and you will see at least 1 Blu Ray exclusive on HD DVD
Jonton81 @ Aug 9th 2007 4:54AM
Should point out just in case you claim that this is a mistake on behalf of the sellers - I have Harry Potter And The Goblet Of Fire on HD DVD (very good show) Terminator 2 still not arrived yet :-(
To give you an idea of the price difference however the Harry potter DVD cost me 27 from HMV ($54) and I bought serenity from USA at $24.54 delivered (12.25)
Jonto81 @ Aug 9th 2007 5:25AM
On the high-definition disc charts, "300" was the top seller on the Blu-ray Disc and the HD DVD charts. The Blu-ray Disc version outsold the HD DVD edition by a margin of nearly 2-to-1.
http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN0839109220070809
bottom of the article
Nfinity @ Aug 9th 2007 8:14AM
@Jonto81
Sure, what they all conveniently forget to mention is that:
1. Number of shipped HD DVD copies to retailers was less then Blu-Ray version and most of the stores were out of stock on HD DVD version
2. That despite 10:1 number of Blu-Ray players on the market the HD DVD sold 87,500 copies topping both Casino Royale and Planet Earth in sales.
3. That HD DVD version was actually a combo and was $5-$10 higher in cost then BD version closing gross profit for Warner to about 53:47 ratio for BD. Meaning that if they shipped the same number of units the profit Warner would make on HD DVD would kill Blu-Ray despite the larger number of units sold. Not so 2:1 now is it?
Wait for another month or so, this BD propaganda will eventually fade away cause they can only pay so many authors, blog sites etc etc.
Just enjoy those numbers for a bit longer, cause Q4 you'll be singing a different tune even with those skewed numbers.
Just Amazon released a press release today:
====
"Toshiba's Third Generation HD DVD Players Selected by Amazon.com as One of the Top Picks for the Holidays
WAYNE, N.J., Aug. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- Amazon.com has selected Toshiba's new assortment of third generation HD DVD players as one of their top picks for the upcoming holiday season -- the new models were highlighted at the Amazon.com Electronics store Holiday Preview this week where Amazon showcased their picks for this season's hottest holiday products. With the majority market share in unit sales of next generation DVD players, consumers are speaking loud and clear, and they are adopting HD DVD with its innovative interactivity and web enabled features as their HD format of choice. With all three new third generation models priced under $500 (MSRP), Toshiba is delivering a powerful line-up of HD DVD players designed to meet the aggressive growth in demand for high definition TVs. For an ultimate HD home movie experience, visit http://www.amazon.com/electronics to learn more. Toshiba HD DVD players continue to be top sellers on the leading online retailer's web site."
===
Sure, dead format indeed. Ridiculous. PS3s momentum is fading and numbers in favor of Blu-Ray are shrinking and you will see this most obviously in the coming months. I'll give all BD fanboys, like Devils Advocate that is so INFORMED about unbeatable superiority of Blu-Ray, to start panicking around end of November/beginning of Dec.
@Devils Advocate
Kiddo, it's obvious you are a 14-16 year old kid and you have hard time accepting reality. Region free HD DVD thing that allows anyone to buy movies from all over the world is fantastic for everyone. If I can get a title that I really want and it's not available in the US I will get it somewhere else it doesn't really have to be in the States. This also means that a lot of foreign movies and releases I get to watch that you can't Mr & Mrs Smith comes to mind. This Blu-Ray exclusive is not even on Blu-Ray in the States and I have it on HD DVD.
You on the other hand, a Blu-Ray twurp can only dream of Universal titles or overseas movies on Blu-Ray. And you know what the best part is? Your parents probably paid $500+ for that Blu-Ray player or PS3, while I got my 3rd brand new HD DVD player for my bedroom for measly $183. Sucker!
And my 82 HD DVD movies keeps growing weekly as right now on weekly basis HD DVD has more new movie releases. I put my money where my mouth is.
Jonto81 @ Aug 9th 2007 11:26AM
@Nfinity
I am a HD DVD and I think that 2:1 was good pretty much for the reasons you outlined above.
Quick question where do you buy your imports from? just I noticed a few from France etc and I know no French or German
thanks
Nfinity @ Aug 9th 2007 11:47AM
@Jonto81
The best thing you should do is go here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=855923
I'm pretty active on AVS forums and you can keep track on that thread about everything import. You can even read reviews of discs from other people so you can save your money if something is not good.
Cheers.
borland502 @ Aug 9th 2007 2:13PM
I read the AVSForums too, though I'm not active. And why Blu Ray fanatics overstate their case, I haven't see a single statistic there that favors your optimism. I mean, there was that one HD DVD press release that showed a 20% gain and 5% blu decline. But that was from the 3:1 ratio earlier. And it's been steady at 2:1 since then as it is with 300 now.
The next generation of Toshiba players look good, but the pricing ranges from $299 to $499. How is that going to give you that overwhelming surge you anticipate? The fact that you can get a cheaper HD DVD player hasn't helped disc sales yet.
borland502 @ Aug 9th 2007 2:04PM
@Nfinity
"Number of shipped HD DVD copies to retailers was less then Blu-Ray version and most of the stores were out of stock on HD DVD version"
Why did retailers ship more copies on the Blu Ray format? And why did "The Departed" do a 1.64 ration in favor of Blu over its lifespan? I can't believe you're suggesting that Warner handicaps HD DVD every time. I don't hold that HD DVD is dead as a doornail, but it hasn't regained the lead since it lost it in January. The divide for 300 is 65/35 in favor of Blu right now according to USAToday.
"That despite 10:1 number of Blu-Ray players on the market the HD DVD sold 87,500 copies topping both Casino Royale and Planet Earth in sales."
Yes, and Blu sold 162,500 copies topping both Casino Royale and Planet Earth in sales. What the hell are you trying to say? 4.11 Million PS3s were sold worldwide as of this week. If the NPD report that only 25% use them as Blu Ray players is correct, then that leaves 102,750,000 movie players world wide seeing Blu.
"Understand that the WHOLE world is pro HD DVD"
In so far as anyone cares, they used to be pro HD DVD. Then Sony built and released the Trojan horse and HD DVD's beloved city of Troy fell. For nearly a year we have been seeing 3:2 or 2:1 ratios with one foray into 3:1 territory for software sales. The market is still small, so the apple cart can be upset. But you seem just as rabid as those you oppose, only with fewer facts to back you up.
HD DVD is not dead, but it has been on the defensive for nearly a year. So your ballsy declarations seem less grounded than those of the Devil's Advocate. Are you practicing Stalin's big lie?
The Jeremy @ Aug 9th 2007 3:06PM
Maybe the Blu-ray edition is not selling as well per installed Blu-ray/PS3 machine vs. the installed base of HD DVD because the picture quality of the Blu-ray release when compared to other releases is poor.
To my eyes, my copy of *300* on Blu-ray does not look much better than the DVD version, which is saying a lot because non-upscaled DVD titles played by my Philips DVD player generally look terrible on my HDTV. I expected a better picture, even when considering the "artificial" grain present in *300*. This release is not a jaw-dropping example of what HD content can do when compared to say *Casino Royale*, the *Pirates of the Caribbean* movies (the 2 so far that have been released on Blu), or even Sony's lower tier releases like *Hellboy*.
The funny thing is that Warner Bros. can handicap their Blu-ray releases by not embracing AVC and going for the highest bit-rate possible and yet they still sell more copies on that format over the HD DVD format that by no secret they want to win due to their shared patent portfolio with Toshiba they both wish to preserve at the expense of the rest of the consumer electronics industry.
Regardless, what I wish would happen for both formats...full AVC codec adoption. VC-1 is to AVC what WMA is to AAC; inferior at the same bit-rate. Microsoft may make the best office suite software package in the world, but that certainly does not translate into them making the best audio and video codecs in the world.
And what I'd also like to see is a comparison between the same title that is released in VC-1 versus it released on AVC for Blu-ray. Of course, that's not going to happen anytime soon since the studios "supporting" both formats are shafting us Blu-ray owners by being cheap by using the same encoding jobs as their HD DVD releases. That ain't fair by any stretch of the imagination since those studios will have to be offering AVC encoded versions of their product to the likes of Dish and DirecTV shortly as both migrate away from MPEG-2 encoded content.