Blu-ray won't be obsolete in 2007
There is something about the latest technology that makes people love to use the word obsolete. The new iPhone makes the iPod obsolete, the latest Core 2 Dou makes the old one obsolete, but most of the time these devices are just as useful as they were when they were released -- and certainly still "in use." In October, when the BD Profile 1.1 is mandated by the BDA, all the current players will be every bit as useful as they are today. Sure it would've been great if Blu-ray was actually ready (no it's still not ready now) when HD DVD was, but who wants them to stop adding features now? Sure it sucks when you pay $1000 for something only to have it replaced with a faster, better model less than a year later for half the price, but come on, obsolete? Knowing all this, we'd still rather buy now and enjoy HD movies than wait till all the bugs are worked out, 'cause we all know that'll probably never happen.
Filed under: Blu-ray
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Xyzzy @ Jul 3rd 2007 2:46PM
It's been awhile since we've read a good Ben "Blu-Ray" Drawbaugh "article." I was starting to think he may be swaying to the other side. ;)
Unfortunately, your analogies suck. The iPhone is a phone and iPod merged, so yes neither is obsolete. The Core 2 Duo is just two processors, so of course the old one still works. We're talking about a MOVIE FORMAT that is changing in midstream. Is a VCR from 1980 any different than one from 2007? They added wireless remotes, but that has no effect on the VIDEO part of it. Is a DVD player from 1998 any different than one from 2007? The new ones do video upscaling better and have progressive scan, but they still play the VIDEO part of it the same.
Old BD players from 2006, on the other hand, will not be able to play all of the VIDEO that's on the disks. That means they're obsolete in my book. Others may disagree, and that's fine. My complaint is that Sony and friends aren't letting customers KNOW this stuff ahead of time -- if J6P walks into Best Buy, they have no idea that they're going to be missing out on functionality because the standard isn't set yet. Heck, lots of people on the blogs don't even understand it.
Dominic @ Jul 3rd 2007 2:57PM
Xyzzy: elaborate for me. I own a PS3. will I be okay because of firmware updates?
Ben @ Jul 3rd 2007 4:03PM
Glad I don't disappoint.
You actually argued my points for me, neither of the examples made the previous offering obsolete and neither does BD Live. I can still continue to enjoy every new Blu-ray movies after the new players are out, the only difference is that I can't enjoy new features that may or may not be included on those discs and that I may or may not have even wanted to see.
As for Sony telling people in advanced, you can't be serious, it's not like they advertised having these features to J6P, sure they embellished a bit in their "Blu-ray is better" press releases, but who doesn't? And J6P doesn't read 'em anyways.
Alias @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:34PM
Xyzzy, wake up and smell the roses. Maybe you should actually read the article next time instead of reading the headline and skipping straight to comment box.
For starters, Drawbaugh isn't stating that the iPod or the old Core 2 Duo is obsolete, in fact he states just the opposite: "most of the time these devices are JUST AS USEFUL as they were when they were released -- and certainly still 'in use.'"
Now let's look at your accusation: "Old BD players from 2006, on the other hand, will not be able to play all of the VIDEO that's on the disks."
For the record that statement is completely incorrect. As stated clearly in the article (had you bothered to read it), "In October, when the BD Profile 1.1 is mandated by the BDA, all the current players will be every bit as useful as they are today."
As you stated, with VCRs "they added wireless remotes, but that has no effect on the VIDEO part of it." Similarly, DVD players "do video upscaling better and have progressive scan, but they still play the VIDEO part of it the same." And most importantly, new Blu-ray players may add picture-in-picture and other extras but the VIDEO part of it will remain the same.
One more time for those of you who like to skip over stuff (Xyzzy, I'm talking to you): old Blu-ray players WILL PLAY new Blu-ray movies. You may not get all the fancy extras, but the player will do exactly what it was designed to do when you bought it.
You're complaining because the piece of hardware you bought in 2006 doesn't have the same features as the one I bought a month ago? And (*gasp*) Sony didn't tell you ahead of time that they would be releasing a newer model?
Wake up! Your technology will always be replaced by bigger and better things, but this will always be the case. If you perpetually hold out for a newer model you'll be waiting a looong time.
Segarsj @ Jul 3rd 2007 3:22PM
Theoretically you should be fine due to the mandatory inclusion of a network interface for the PS3. However, I haven't heard anything either way, but I would be willing to bet that the PS3 should work fine. At any rate you should be able to play back the main feature without any trouble.
Regardless we'll have to wait and see once they release the new profile in the fall if any problems will arise.
steveo @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:27PM
The prevailing wisdom on this issue is that the guts of the PS3 will be able to handle any changes, and that they will be easily implemented because it is a computer.
This is not true for the dumb-box consumer electronics, however. Those with old devices will have to buy new ones in order to take advantage of most of the features on future releases.
Personally, I forsee major issues for generation 1 blu-ray players when the ICT is implemented in 2010 which enables HDCP.
Daniel @ Jul 3rd 2007 3:10PM
HAHAHAH, that's the gayest thing Blu-ray have ever done. I'm glad I'm sticking to my XBOX 360 add-on HD DVD and HD-A2 model and both of them're doing amazing job and haven't any damn problem at all, adios amigos!
mdurgin @ Jul 3rd 2007 3:37PM
PS3's will be updated no problem. All other players won't be obsolete. All the user has to do is go to the website, download the latest firmware, burn it to cd/dvd/etc, follow directions, which probably amount to putting it in and restarting it.
I'm sure that shouldn't be a problem for 99% of the technologically impared people out there who couldn't master programming a VCR. Come october, for those of us not so challenged, ebay will probably be littered with them.
Xyzzy @ Jul 3rd 2007 3:46PM
mdurgin -- that's not true. The current generation lacks not only a network connection but also dedicated hardware to be able to decode the new features (like picture in picture). It's been reported many times that firmware can NOT fix the BD issue (except possibly for the PS3 -- I haven't seen anything one way or the other on that one).
LJKelley @ Jul 3rd 2007 3:56PM
What a fool... Ben you are obviously a Blu-ray fanboi and thus this article has no merit. I would be mighty pissed if I payed $1000 for a Blu-ray DVD Player to realize I would have to buy a new one within a year for new features that HD DVD had all along for less money.
In addition I did click your "Tip us on news" link and provided a link to a Wall Street Journal article about the EU investigating Blu-ray. So here I will provide it to your readers: http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB118341745768555943-kNVDQFP6HttfagW30Wtx2t2PHwY_20070802.html
Ben @ Jul 3rd 2007 3:56PM
That link is in pending and we plan on hitting it, thanks.
Jake @ Jul 3rd 2007 4:02PM
I gotta agree with Xyzzy, although I see it as less "obolete" than "of comparatively less value."
His Joe Six-Pack illustration is spot on, and it is here that Sony et al is proving that 1) they appreciate consumer miseducation, 2) Blu-Ray wasn't ready -- and therefore 3) that those who purchased first and "second" generation Blu-Ray players effectively have financed the further development of Blu-Ray, enabling features that have been advertised from the start of the Blu-Ray Hype Campaign, but which will only be available on players in the "third" and subsequent generations.
That is a raw deal, and anyone with a brain should know not to buy any current BR player. Does that make a current model "obsolete?" Not exactly--it will still do everything that it does now. But the bang for your buck is diminished by orders of magnitude, and you would be a fool to jump in knowing what is just around the corner. And if you DON'T know what's coming and buy now, boy will you be pissed when you find out that YOUR BR player can't do some of the things BR was advertised as doing, but your NEIGHBOR'S BR player -- purchased only 4 months later -- CAN.
Terry @ Jul 3rd 2007 4:03PM
The word "obsolete" may seem harsh, but it -- among other things -- is defined as "being replaced with something new or better." In this sense, current Blu-ray players are indeed going to be obsolete on October 31 inasmuch as BD profile 1.1 is concerned. They will not play some or all of the extras that are written for BD profile 1.1, and they cannot be upgraded via firmware to support version 1.1 unfortunately. The movies themselves will play (which is a good thing), but I think a lot of buyers will be sorely disappointed once they learn that the new Blu-ray player they bought recently can't play these cool new Picture-In-Picture extras on future Blu-ray titles. Not to mention the web extras once profile 2.0 comes to fruition.
http://blog.homecinemachoice.com/page/homecinemachoice?entry=blu_ray_players_to_be
http://www.dvdtown.com/news/dont-get-the-blues---say-no-to-blu-ray/4407
Xyzzy @ Jul 3rd 2007 4:20PM
"You actually argued my points for me, neither of the examples made the previous offering obsolete and neither does BD Live. I can still continue to enjoy every new Blu-ray movies after the new players are out, the only difference is that I can't enjoy new features that may or may not be included on those discs and that I may or may not have even wanted to see."
Were you trying to sound like a BD fanboy with this post Ben? There's a HUGE difference. Let's use your iPhone example. If I download a song from iTunes, it sounds the same on the iPod as it does the iPhone. There's no extra features on the iPhone, other than the fact I only need to carry one device. Nothing is obsolete.
With the CPU, all of my old programs run the same on the new CPU as they do on the old - there's NO difference aside from speed.
With the BD player, I don't get all of the content from the BD disk. That's BAD. How can you not see that, even with your Sony glasses on?
And the BD camp HAS been advertising these "enhanced features" since day one, saying "They're coming soon!" Guess what? They're not unless you buy more hardware.
Alex @ Jul 3rd 2007 4:12PM
Ben is back in full cheerleader regalia, nice!
Sad that the post fails to even mention the "yes we can play movies, just not the extra content." And have to wait how long for the manufacturer to send you a firmware disc? Care to list the numerous BD players that can't upgrade the firmware for BD+ too? At least BDA is finally getting specs finalized.
undawater @ Jul 3rd 2007 4:30PM
I have said this before and I'll say it again, the most important thing about this generation is the upgraded picture & sound. All of these "extras" are icing on the cake, but they are not the cake. Just give me a hi-def movie experience. I upgraded my DVD player at least 5 times and I imagine this generation will be no different. Glad I jumped in last year. What's interesting with HD-DVD is that the prices came down so quickly, there were quite a few non-traditional early adopters in the mix. Normally, pricing-oblivious people are doing all of the purchasing in year one, and they could care less if upgrades are imminent because they want the latest/greatest thing and are going to buy it regardless. It just goes to show that parallels being drawn between this generation and DVD can only be taken so far. It also explains why there is so much whining this time around. I swear, I've never heard so much whining.
h0mi @ Jul 3rd 2007 5:42PM
Obsolete is not the same thing as "useless", but yes, those players are obsolete.
Kevin Murphy @ Jul 3rd 2007 6:29PM
Ben--
Would you recommend the new lower-cost Panasonic or Sony players to a friend? Or would you suggest they wait until October?
Ben @ Jul 3rd 2007 6:30PM
I might not be the best person to ask, I almost always say buy. If I do wait it is usually only for devices already announced that have a due date and since no one has announced players for the 1.1 profile, I say get the 1200 or the 300.
Jimmy @ Jul 3rd 2007 6:36PM
Guys,
I have a single disc CD component from 1985. It does not support CD-text, it does not support CD-extra, it also does not play CD-R or CD-RW. However, I have never put a music CD in it that does not play.
I have a Toshiba DVD player (SD-2109) that I have now had for 8 years. It will play 1 in 5 DVD-R discs that I put into it and it will not play CD-R, CD-RW, nor any DVD+ dics. However, I have never put a movie DVD in it that does not play.
My point is that as long as my hardware will do what it was supposed to do when it was released then I am happy with that. In the case of Blu-ray and HD DVD that means that the players accept the disc, play the movie, and access the menu.
I have read a lot about BD-J, as a Sun certified Java programmer this interests me, and I have not yet found anything that suggests that this will impact my viewing of any future movies. Will my first generation Blu-ray player play the BD-J 1.1 and 2.0 software - almost certainly not. Will my first generation Blu-ray player play the movies on those discs - yes.
One last thing. I now have purchased approximately 10 DVD players over the years for my personal and family use. This includes game consoles, stand-alone players, PC drives, and laptops. While I might be slightly above average here I cannot imagine that I am that far ahead of the curve.
My point being that the prices on this hardware is going to drop and features are going to explode. How many people reading this blog really expect to be using the same player they have now as their primary player in three years?
Xyzzy @ Jul 3rd 2007 6:49PM
The best part about this --- if the roles were reversed, the BD fanboys would be chopping HD DVD down left and right. Instead we get the, "I don't care about extra features" line. Just like when HD DVD dominated the Amazon sales ranks, BD fanboys said, "Those rankings don't matter," and the second BD was ranked higher, the fanboys cheered. Crazy.
Re: Jimmy -- the point is that your CD and DVD players STILL PLAY CD AND DVD. You can't compare to CD-R, DVD-R, etc, because those are different formats. Your DVD player from eight years ago STILL PLAYS EVERY FEATURE OF EVERY DVD MADE TODAY! Yet the BD player you buy today won't even make it a few months! How is that acceptable?
Just the fact that you still have your DVD player EIGHT YEARS LATER says that you don't want your hardware to be thrown in the trash. I just don't understand why the BD owners are ok with this, especially since Sony promised interactivity on their disks back at launch and never said it would require a new player. It just blows my mind that BD owners aren't outraged over this.
Luke S. Darr @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:00PM
"Your DVD player from eight years ago STILL PLAYS EVERY FEATURE OF EVERY DVD MADE TODAY!" - Xyzzy
Not so, old DVD players often don't support the interactive menu system on newer DVDs but they will play the main movie just fine. The same goes for Blu-ray.
Please do your research before spouting off misinformation.
Rick @ Jul 3rd 2007 6:50PM
While the whole HD situation has, on the whole, been one of the most consumer-unfriendly electronics introductions in memory, I can't help but think that the low point in this all is Sony's cynical (?) introduction of a new player only four months before the standards are to change - not only that, but being dodgy/unforthcoming/vague about the fact that these machines cannot be firmware upgraded. Readers of blogs like this or AVS Forum are certainly going to be aware of its limitations, but I can't think that Joe Sixpack is going to be too happy about buying his chock-full-of-features disc in November and realizing that many of those features aren't accessible to him on his nearly new player. I'm a loyal Sony TV buyer, but this is, IMHO, bad business.
Xyzzy @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:28PM
"Not so, old DVD players often don't support the interactive menu system on newer DVDs but they will play the main movie just fine. The same goes for Blu-ray.
Please do your research before spouting off misinformation."
If you're going to call me out like that, care to actually site some proof? I have an old DVD player and over 500 DVDs, so I'd love to test it out. Tell me what DVD menus aren't supported on my 8 year old DVD player. I bet the original poster would love to test it out too.
steveo @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:42PM
Luke - you are mistaken. New (...wait for it...) __Sony__ DVDs will NOT play in older players because of their new DRM.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/16/sony-copy-protection-taking-heat-again-now-dvds-wont-play/
undawater @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:50PM
I am a blu-ray owner (not a fanboy) and I am not outraged over lack of interactive features. Why? Probably because all signs point to blu-ray winning the format war and it's a lot easier to upgrade hardware later, and own 2 machines, than to replace my 75 disc library. I mean, honestly, after backing the right horse in this race, all of the other issues (which will resolve themselves in time) pale in comparison. And again, it's about the movie, not the extras. I'm having a great experience with my player. No regrets.
JBDragon @ Jul 4th 2007 12:01AM
Not about the Extras? Are you Blu-Ray fanboys NUTS??? It it wasn't about the extras, how come Movies are Re-Released on DVD all the time with new Extras? Because people buy them up. People want to see all the new Content. With the Features HD DVD support, and Blu-Ray later, it takes it to the next level. Being able to say watch the Movie and at the same time in a small window watch and hear the Director and or Actor Talk about the Movie, and/or Show how a Scene was done as the same time your watching it happen for example is pretty cool. It's nice seeing it at the same time instead of watching the movie, and then going back and watching Extras later. The Cool features the move "300" will have on HD DVD that Blu-Ray will completely loose out on will be great. Sure the Disc is a couple bucks more on HD DVD, but your paying for a DVD version also, so is more then far.
What does Blu-Ray have over HD DVD? 20 gig's of extra space. That's it. Is that doing anything for Blu-Ray? NO. Does Blu-Ray have a better picture? NO, in fact it finally just caught up to HD DVD finally. Audio any better? Nope, In fact HD DVD Movies generally still have better Audio also. Extra features at least? NOPE, HD DVD has this far, far beat. So I'm wondering, why all this support for Sony's Blu-Ray? Do they have a good track record? NO. Between Betamax, UMD, MD Disc's, Memory Stick, SACD, etc. How about all the DRM? Hell Blu-Ray has a Second Layer of that garbage not yet being used. DO you know that things like Sony Making your Blu-Ray player No longer work because they say it's been Compromise can happen! Yep, Thanks to BD+ Sony has far more control of your Blu-Ray player then ever before. You don't like DRM now? It's so much worse with Blu-Ray, which I guess is why Sony got more Support from the Studio's. SO thank you SONY once again. I'd rather see both formats FAIL then for Blu-Ray to survive and end up winning.
All you Blu-Ray fanboys must really like DRM!!! Sony does have such a good track record with that garbage,..... NOT. If Blu-Ray does Win out. I'll NEVER support it. I'll just keep using DVD.
Mr_Fizzlepop @ Jul 4th 2007 12:18AM
Many DVDs for Years have had interactive features that are only accessible on a PC.
So..how does your DVD player do with playing that content that is on the DVD you have purchased?
Feel abused because your DVD player can't access that content without being a PC?
Mr_Fizzlepop @ Jul 4th 2007 12:24AM
Oh, and there is a Difference in both the Picture and Audio that CAN be stored and pumped out based on whether BR or HD DVD.
The peak A/V mux rate for HD DVD is 30Mb/s.
The peak A/V mux rate for Blu-ray is 48Mb/s(40Mb/s for video).
Someday, based on the larger Bandwidth movie encodes you will likely see soon, blu-ray will be better.
undawater @ Jul 4th 2007 1:35AM
Yes, Mr. Fizz... that added storage space and higher bit rate will surely make upcoming blu-rays like Pixar's Cars achieve remarkable levels of clarity. I can't wait.
Luis T Puig @ Jul 4th 2007 3:11AM
"Blu-ray won't be obsolete in 2007"...but it may be in "hot water" with this investigation, "Europe Steps Up Probe of New DVD Formats":
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118341745768555943-kNVDQFP6HttfagW30Wtx2t2PHwY_20070802.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top
I don't know....!
Evvy @ Jul 4th 2007 4:37AM
So it's been YOU guys holding up progress!
I'd like to get my new hi-def player soon, so quit funding the 'war' and this whole issue will get figured out very quickly, I promise.
Stop buying into the corporate BS so that the rest of us can enjoy our new HDTV's thanks.
Evvy @ Jul 4th 2007 4:38AM
In reference to the now twice linked WSJ story, I have a hard time giving any credence to a writer or editor who three times infer "people familiar with the situation" as legitamite references for a nationally published article.
I don't even remember which side of the issue that story was bashing, but I'm sure it was less factual than it was editorial.
Doesn't anyone see that it's all done on purpose; that both sides are winning and that the consumer is the only loser?
Steve @ Jul 4th 2007 11:07AM
Xyzzy, are you forgetting something?
" This time around, the firm(Toshiba) is getting official about the rumored 24p output, as we now know that at least the HD-XA2 and HD-A20 will be eligible for a September update that will enable playback of content in 1080p/24. It wasn't insinuated that any other Toshiba players would eventually receive the same upgrade, nor did we get the feeling that HD DVD players on the whole would be refreshed, but here's to hoping (for the latter, primarily)."
Yeah, my PS3 has supported that since March!
And I thought they could ALL be upgraded?
Steve @ Jul 4th 2007 11:12AM
Xyzzy, what about the update that JUST enabled Web-Activated content that was hyped from the start in April 2006. Both formats are in the wrong here, you can't just go bashing one.
Mister Snitch! @ Jul 4th 2007 11:39AM
"would of"? "WOULD OF"??
Go back and re-take your junior high English classes. This time, pay attention.
h0mi @ Jul 4th 2007 12:13PM
The 2 toshiba models are the only (as far as I can tell) ones that support 1080p. Other players probably cant be upgraded to support 1080p but maybe that's not true?
nigel @ Jul 5th 2007 4:57AM
Blu ray deserves to be obsolete, players mostly have no internet connectivity so no interaction or updates available, audio/video is no better, draconian Sony product control, and it is a s**t load more expensive to buy. What the f***, I don't understand, why does any one support blu ray
Alex @ Jul 5th 2007 11:29AM
Steve,
G1 HD DVD players were web-enabled out of the box, no studios had included features until Blood Diamond. Kind of like how it took a long time for anyone to even use "Multi-angle" on DVDs when they came out. And how it is still rarely used...