Warner's Total HD delayed 'till 2008
With the second half of 2007 right around the corner, Warner has come out and confessed that its Total HD discs won't be delivered this year -- contrary to what was promised during CES 2007. While a new release date isn't given, they are shooting for early 2008. There also isn't a mention of the reason for the delay, but we suspect that sandwiching these two formats on one disc turned out to be more difficult than they bargained for; or maybe they want to wait and see if a winner emerges this holiday season. In the meantime, Warner promises to keep releasing titles on both formats, and believes that "There is no expiration date on the viability of this concept."[Via High-Def Digest]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
NNTPgrip @ Jun 28th 2007 11:10AM
Why doesn't the exact same post on Engadget and EngadgetHD share the comments?
Just curious.
Ben @ Jun 28th 2007 11:14AM
Although the content is the same, they are two separate posts, so they have different comments.
sean @ Jun 28th 2007 11:12AM
i think warner is realizing that Blu-ray is owning HD DVD and they are planning to discontinue HD DVD alltogeather. You heard it here first.
Kennan Mebane @ Jun 28th 2007 11:21AM
i think they realized they can't get the most out of both formats on one disc
SAMe @ Jun 28th 2007 11:23AM
Just what the world needs, a $50.00 disk of the movie Showgirls.
paloooz @ Jun 28th 2007 11:32AM
I'd buy a $50.00 disc of the movie Striptease.
HD ~90's Demi Moore anybody? Oh hells yaa.
Mojo_Yugen @ Jun 28th 2007 12:07PM
"There is no expiration date on the viability of this concept."
Yea there is. I'm thinking holiday season 2007.
carlos @ Jun 28th 2007 12:07PM
"Blu-ray's 100,000 units?"
Umm... Dude. Check your numbers. The PS3 has sold 5.5 million world wide. So make that 5.6 million blu-ray units.
carlos @ Jun 28th 2007 12:17PM
"Umm, you can't count those PS3's, I be talkin about standalone unites only.. not gaming consoles!"
Why not? I own a PS3 which I use as my blu-ray player. I signed up with Netflix and I've watched 3 blu-ray movies a week for the past 5 months. It's a blu-ray player/gaming console.
If you believe PS3 owners are not renting and buying blu-ray films then you have a screw loose.
mdurgin @ Jun 28th 2007 12:19PM
They are probably waiting for BR java standardization, which is the reason that Batman, The Matrix, and a few other warner movies have not been released. The new standards are due out in October, and even if it is on time, you can bet Warner isn't going to be ready to release as soon as they are available.
Segarsj @ Jun 28th 2007 1:01PM
Personally, I don't think the concept of Total HD is a good one. The discs will obviously be more expensive, and consumers will sooner pick sides than buy a "future proof" title due to the fact that one format will eventually fail, or the unlikely alternative, the two formats will manage to co-exist. In either scenario the consumer ends up with a more expensive alternative to purchasing HD content.
Also, for what it's worth, so long as I have a choice, I will be boycotting the Total HD format as I don't want to have anything to do with Blu-ray being attached to my HD DVD content, and I'm sure the Blu-ray fans feel the same way about the presence of HD DVD.
Thoughts?
I Randolph S. Shiner @ Jul 8th 2007 9:50PM
Totally correct. I have HDDVD and want nothing to do with BR unless I absolutely have to. I wouldn't touch a "Total HD" disc if it cost more, because the only reason I would have to do so would be to hedge bets against HDDVD. I am happy as I can be with my Toshiba HD-A2; I have the Matrix Collection -it is spectacular in that format, albeit my TV is "only" 1080i.
Kiwi616 @ Jun 28th 2007 1:06PM
How do you NOT consider a PS3 a Blu-ray player...you're an idiot end of discussion. PS3 are both a gaming console and BR player. Do you count X-Box add-on a HD-DVD player...YES than why not PS3?
You need to get your GED already and consider all the facts and think outside your little world buddy.
HDMike @ Jun 28th 2007 1:33PM
I would be surprised if TotalHD adds more than $5 to the retail price of a movie. Look at how much BR and HD-DVD media costs for single disc and consider the profit margins of the retailer and volume pricing that would be afforded to Warner.
If they can make the media reliable in HD-DVD and BR players and support the standard specifications of each format, then more power to them. I'll pay a couple dollars (and that's all it will be) extra for future proofing.
Kiwi616 @ Jun 28th 2007 2:16PM
Seems like you're the only one to think so buddy. I bought my PS3 for the game and the added feature of the BR disc. Sure its a console to play games, but it shouldn't be excluded from the BR player because of you don't like to include it. Would you not count the iPhone as an ipod sale because it also dubs as a phone. Please grow up and take an economics course already. Converged devices are still part of the family.
Kiwi616 @ Jun 28th 2007 2:31PM
1st off I don't SELL any movies. And secondly, you have don't have SELL BR movies to keep the franchise going....EVER hear about renting (i.e. Blockbuster story on engadget if you're interested). Like I said earlier, please go back to school and you'll realize how dumb you sound. 5.5M Ps3 sold doesn't equate to someone only purchasing the PS3 for a game console. Having included this capability allows users to purchase/rent BR movies without purchasing another piece of equipment. If you are so anti-BR just go back to VHS and leave the new technology to people who know what their talking about. END OF DISCUSSION until you pass the age of reason.
carlos @ Jun 28th 2007 2:49PM
"Okay then, why haven't you sold 5.5 million movies? "
Remember my post? " I own a PS3 which I use as my blu-ray player. I signed up with Netflix and I've watched 3 blu-ray movies a week for the past 5 months. It's a blu-ray player/gaming console"
RENTAL being the key word.
pnorth @ Jun 28th 2007 3:02PM
One of the main reasons you can't count all ps3's as bluray players is that only 30% of all ps3's sold are attached to high def televisions. Which is a huge reason the BD attach rate is so low. Yes, there are some people that actually bought the ps3 to just play games... Whereas with the 360 HD add on, it's only intent is to be an HD DVD player.
NineT9 @ Jun 28th 2007 3:09PM
Please keep in mind guys if 5% of Playstation3 users bought the PS3 specifically for 1) Blu-Ray 2) Blu-Ray & Play games, then you are looking at:
5% = 178,500 Blu-Ray Players sold.
Giving that the amount of Sony Playstation 3's sold are 3.56Million, Which might be more then that...
joe @ Jun 28th 2007 3:26PM
The attachment rate argument is very very stupid. I have a feeling that the attach rate for dvd players is also far lower than that of HD-DVD. The same could be said for the attach rate of cd's to cd players. I bet the attach rate of records to record players is far higher than thw attach rate of CD to CD players.
Do you see where this is going?
The raw number of disks sold is what matters most. So at that level both sides are fairly even. The more sucessful a given format is the LOWER the attach rate becomes. I have 4 devices that play cd's and 3 that play dvd's and 1 for blueray. So each blueray disk counts 3x as much as a DVD, of course not.
When 100 million players hit the streets an attach rate of 1/10 is significant.
camaj @ Jun 28th 2007 3:26PM
The whole attach rate thing is smoke and mirrors to sucker dumb people into believing what they want you to believe. Attach rate is meaningless! Are you telling me that good attach rates are a sign of success? I bet D-VHS had a very high attach rate because it had a small number of enthusiastic buyers. Unfortunatly "buyer enthusiasm" (which essentially what AR is) counts for nothing. Companies exist to make money not to please people and Blu-ray do that by selling players and selling discs. No company in the world would chose 100,000 players and 100,000 discs (1:1) over 5.5m players and 100,000 discs.
Ask yourselves this, if the HD DVD attach rate is so good why are haven't they beaten BD's sales since mid-december? Why do they need such a high attach rate to beat Blu-ray? Why haven't they done that yet, despite reducing players to just $300?!
Re: The PS3 situation. Some people will never buy a game and use it exclusively for BD playing. Some people will never watch a movie and only play games. Some people are in between and will buy/rent a few movies or games. Claiming it is or isn't a BD player isn't accurate is a bit of both.
SAMe @ Jun 28th 2007 3:32PM
Having both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 HD DVD add on you can say I'm format neutral.
However, I prefer the ps3 because the 360 sounds like a jet plane on takeoff.
HDMike @ Jun 28th 2007 4:29PM
Attach rates are far from meaningless. If the Sony PS3 has an attach rate of 0.5, then it is clear that a substantial pool of PS3 owners are not buying BDs. You can also imply from this that many PS3 owners are also not renting BDs (i.e. they use it as a gaming console exclusively).
Yes, there are exceptions. Some people exclusively rent. Some people pirate all their movies. Nonetheless, you can draw some reasonably sound conclusions from the attach rate.
The PS3/360 influence is making it harder to read hardware sales figures and draw conclusions, so we turn to software sales for answers. An attach rate of 0.5 combined with 3.5M PS3s sold equals 1.75M BD movies sold. An attach rate of 5.5 combined with 150k HD-DVD standalones sold equals 0.83M movies sold. The math favors BD software sales and that is reflected in the data we see online. This math was for illustrative purposes, so please refrain from dissecting it.
Kiwi616 @ Jun 28th 2007 4:36PM
My point exactly...you are a moron! and Don't know how to put anything together, so I'll leave it at that. Have fun in Summer School.
h0mi @ Jun 28th 2007 4:51PM
Ps3s have sold 1.4-1.6 million in the US. The 5 million figure is # of units shipped worldwide.
h0mi @ Jun 28th 2007 4:53PM
And yes, ps3s are bluray players, even if they have multiple uses and aren't all being used to play bluray discs. It's useless to exclude them from player counts because the ps3 is why BD outsells HD-DVD discs by a 3-2 to 2-1 ratio.
Mr_Fizzlepop @ Jun 28th 2007 6:14PM
For the Record, I own a PS3, and I Own and rent Blu-Ray movies with it as the player.
I agree that the attach rate arguement is a foolish one, Disc Sales will win this war.
Beatmax player owners can tell you that if Blu-ray wins, it wont matter how many HD DVD stand-alones were sold.
Saying the PS3 doesn't matter in Blu-ray sales is Naive at best.
Xyzzy @ Jun 28th 2007 6:18PM
Nobody's saying that the PS3 doesn't count -- but not even the biggest PS3 fanboy in the world can say that it counts as a 1:1 ratio (ie: 1 PS3 is not equal to 1 standalone HD DVD player). That's where attach rates come into play - to try to "guess" how many PS3s are really being used to watch BD movies.
h0mi @ Jun 28th 2007 6:16PM
Attach rates are a point of data.
The low attach rate for the ps3 means a few things:
1- Large # of ps3 owners have not bought discs
1a- Depending on how large 1 is, those who bought discs didn't buy very many
2- there's potential for significant growth due to the # of ps3 owners
3- bluray is winning because of the sheer #s of ps3 owners
camaj @ Jun 28th 2007 9:36PM
"That's where attach rates come into play - to try to "guess" how many PS3s are really being used to watch BD movies."
Which is rather pointless! The reason people go on about "attach rate" is so they can give the impression BD is failing at something important. They know HD DVD has lost every week since mid-december so they try to spin it. It's not like Blockbuster is going to turn around and say "well 70% of people are renting Blu-ray but we'll carry both formats because it should be 90%"
We have a good idea how many PS3 owners are watching movies based on the survey Sony did last year. I believe 20% of owners bought a PS3 just to watch BD's
joe @ Jun 28th 2007 8:19PM
It maybe a data point but it is an especially meaningless one. Studios care about raw sales.
It's foolish to assume that when the player hits the main stream that people will still buy 10 movies per player per year.
A high attach rate shows an immature market if sales are low.
Every PS3 can play BD disks and at any point a ps3 owner can purchace or rent a bd movie. They count as BD players. To try and discount them is foolish and pointless. What next, try to figure out how many BD-movies a person rents then discount them because they don't rent enough?
When walmart released a hd-dvd player and most people only use it for an upconvert dvd player are you going to argue that those players don't count?
People who won't buy a HD format player unless it's less than $200 aren't going to pay $5-20 more per disk to get it in HD.
Since HD-dvd has been giving away 5 disks per player I would expect that they should have an attach rate of as the least 5.
Xyzzy @ Jun 28th 2007 10:25PM
"Every PS3 can play BD disks and at any point a ps3 owner can purchace or rent a bd movie. They count as BD players. To try and discount them is foolish and pointless. What next, try to figure out how many BD-movies a person rents then discount them because they don't rent enough?"
Well I guess I was wrong... There are some big Sony fanboys who think a PS3 is equal to a staandalone HD DVD player *sigh*
Every PS3 might be able to play BD, but most PS3s aren't even connected to an HDTV so therefore actually CAN'T play BD...
Newsflash for you -- every PSP sold can play UMD, but yet I don't see anybody making those anymore.... That's why attach rate is important.
SimbaDogg @ Jun 28th 2007 9:53PM
even if the attachment rate were only .5 for each ps3 unit, that would still be a good 2.5+ million units sold on the bluray format. just to equal that same amount of disc sales we would be looking at close to 9 units per stand alone dvd player. and just looking at the total number of disc sales for hddvd vs bluray (or marketshare numbers) i really doubt the attachment rate is that high. looks like an extremely low avg sales per unit is winning out to high sales per unit in a limited install base...
but anyways, i think this total HD format is the dumbest thing in the world. if we were to rewind the clock about 8 months to sometime last year, it woulda made a lot more sense. but this approaching holiday season, with the upcoming price drops from both formats (especially from blu ray) i really can't see hd-dvd being all that viable after x-mas time 07.
NineT9 @ Jun 28th 2007 10:15PM
wow some of you people are crazy... i dont even know why i comment on here with these immature fanboys stating everything but facts
Alex @ Jun 28th 2007 10:45PM
so the Sane of us ignore the fanboys, is it reasonable to assume they are just with holding the TotalHD discs to wait and see what happens at X-mas time? I guess it is also reasonable to assume they don't have the discs working perfectly since both formats still have playback issues with various movies.
Mr_Fizzlepop @ Jun 29th 2007 12:41AM
Xyzzy said---"Every PS3 might be able to play BD, but most PS3s aren't even connected to an HDTV so therefore actually CAN'T play BD...
Newsflash for you -- every PSP sold can play UMD, but yet I don't see anybody making those anymore.... That's why attach rate is important."
uh..newflash for you, they do still sell UMD. They carry them at Frys and you can get Borat, Casino Royale, and others.
And the comment that Blu-ray players CAN'T play on a regular TV because they are not HD, hehe, you just sound Crazy with talk like that.
I am Still Waiting for the right HDTV, and I think it will be a Samsung 81 series this year, but I already have a PS3 and like 2 dozen Blu-ray Discs. Oh, and they play just fine on my 32" CRT.
Additionally the PS3 is a Great Blu-ray player, and gets regular firmware updates that so far look to make it the Best, most up to date player there will be.
joe @ Jun 29th 2007 1:30PM
Alex- I have a feeling that they are waiting for the holidays for the totoal hd disks also. It woudl help out the studios a lot to only have to make one supply chain to distribute and promote HD content and christmas is the time you DON"T want to be stuck with an empty shelf of HD-Dvd superman returns and a full shelf of blue ray copies.
Mr_Fizzlepop: Thanks for answering so I didn't have to. I can't wait until the most popular BD-player isn't the PS3 so that gaming can be seperated from home theatre.
MegaZone @ Jun 29th 2007 2:14PM
Yes, actually. Remember DIVX? And I mean the DVD competitor, not the codec. It was pushed hard, and sold a lot of players - and died utterly and completely. It is possible that HD DVD could survive as a data format for PCs, but if it dies in the video market it would probably fade away completely. And it wouldn't be the first format to dry up and blow away even with a decent install base.
I'm also interested in your source for the "9+ million" laptops that will include HD DVD over the nest year.
Segarsj @ Jun 29th 2007 2:18PM
The important thing to take note of is that standalones and add-ons matter more than any console ever will. If you deny this you're simply lying to yourself.
You need only look at the previous consoles. Sure, some people choose to use them as their designated DVD players, but very few compared to the rest of the world. Not everyone can afford a console just to play their DVD's, HD DVD's or BD's.
Those of you that are arguing for the PS3, stating that you can't write it off, you're half right, but you're also wrong to some degree. The potential to generate Blu-ray sales is definitely there, but the progress of that is being diminished by a lack of consumer knowledge and the relatively small numbers of HDTV sets worldwide.
My point is that as much as Sony wants this to be the central component to everyone's living room, I simply don't see that happening any time soon, and even if they manage to gain some serious traction and place PS3's in nearly every household, what's to say that people are going to be using it as their dedicated Blu-ray player? Nothing. By the time the PS3 becomes "affordable" for the average consumer, there will already be much cheaper standalone Blu-ray players, so if playing HD films is all you care about you would naturally opt for the standalone.
So, like many of us have already stated, you cannot ignore the attach rate or significance that is associated with standalone players. If what you say was true than everyone and their mother would be using the PS2 as their central DVD player, and you should know better than to say that's true.
Just so you know, HD DVD has just released a press release today that states they have captured 70% of the standalone market to date, and this number is only expected to rise within the next couple of months with the discounted prices remaining in place, and holiday discounts inevitable.
If HD DVD manages to consistently outsell Sony with regard to their standalone players the tides will indefinitely turn in favor of HD DVD.
drew @ Jul 6th 2007 1:22PM
Fantasy Island where all Sony information comes from didn't you know?
scott luzi @ Jun 30th 2007 6:31AM
Ps3 has sold less than 3.7 million worldwide. No idea where your getting this five million business from.